Since Mirage's Eclipse is being changed for QoL, does anyone here currently like Octavia's Metronome or other similar Conditional abilities?

[Zahnrad]

I doubt I need to explain that Mirage's Eclipse is being changed with Dante Unbound but I got Octavia in Duviri and it got me thinking about it while playing.

Octavia has always been one of my most and least favourite Warframes in the game.

Pros: Music

Cons: Gameplay feels too passive, abilities besides Metronome aren't really engaging.

And Metronome always feels tedious.

I can't remember off the top of my head if there are other frames with Conditional abilities, requiring certain actions or conditions to be met to work. But I doubt Mirage and Octavia are the only ones.

 

Metronome in general just doesn't feel fun or engaging. It's just, optimize the Mandachord to make it easy then spam buttons, maybe this is fine if you're the Octavia but for a Support frame. It's even worse for her allies to try and obtain the buffs, assuming the Octavia is stationary.

At least personally the only part of Metronome I engage with is the Invisibility buff. All the other buffs are just white noise to me.

[quxier]

47 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Pros: Music

*Me autoplaying 'we are lift together with Shawzin in SP Circuit*

Teshin: "You are all that is keeping them at bay. Hold fast."

I feel like freaking bard!

 

52 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

Cons: Gameplay feels too passive, abilities besides Metronome aren't really engaging.

I like the music. I'm not pro but I like sing or play some instrument. Playing Octavia is NOT similar to singing or playing instrument.

52 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I can't remember off the top of my head if there are other frames with Conditional abilities, requiring certain actions or conditions to be met to work. But I doubt Mirage and Octavia are the only ones.

If you include dependencies (not synergies!) then there are even more. In general:

- Dagath/4 relies on 2nd to armor strip.

- Voruna's 4th feels similar. For her 4th to spread slash better you may use 2nd.

- Titania/2 is like this. I have honestly no idea what it does. I just do it sometimes. You need cycle through few buffs, apply to some enemy (not same) and fly towards that enemy to "eat" that buff.

- Styanax - because you cannot cast other abilities you are forced to certain order: 1 > 2 > 4.

- Sevagoth 1+2 without augment requires enemies to be close together to deal decent damage. However only Shadow has it. Augment gave some damage or crit buff which make it better.

- Gyre's 2nd (Coil horizon) cannot throw it into air (you can do it with 1st). Plus it's delay and short lived. So you push some ball, it rolls a little and explodes after some seconds.

- Caliban Razor gyre. To do any meaningful damage you need armor strip (4th). However you cannot cast it during 1st (Razor gyre). So you put that armor strip field, go spin little faster to gain some damage, maybe cast 2nd (depending on your strength it may be just detrimental as it spreads enemies with Razor gyre). Add big energy drain and not being able to use abilities nor weapons.You will have clunky ability.

- Exodia contagion - not ability but arcane mechanic. Other melees requires you to be in air and aimglide attack (aimglide + attack). Exodia contagion requires you to do 2x/double jump, limits it to only 1 shoot and stuns you if you are too close. With other weapons it's muscle memory. I'm in air, I can shot.

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

 

Metronome in general just doesn't feel fun or engaging. It's just, optimize the Mandachord to make it easy then spam buttons, maybe this is fine if you're the Octavia but for a Support frame. It's even worse for her allies to try and obtain the buffs, assuming the Octavia is stationary.

At least personally the only part of Metronome I engage with is the Invisibility buff. All the other buffs are just white noise to me.

And the other problem is that certain action are very hard (or impossible?). Crouching is very quick. However slashing depends on melee speed.

[ominumi]

Octavia is the AFK Queen for a reason. I can't imagine DE allowing us to select which buff we want with Octavia. It'll be more brain dead.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Xata Whisper it's better that the actual eclipse.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I can't remember off the top of my head if there are other frames with Conditional abilities, requiring certain actions or conditions to be met to work. But I doubt Mirage and Octavia are the only ones.

It depends how shallow we wanna go with what we consider conditionals. Gara passive, which is getting fixed, also requires light currently. Garuda, kill to increase and sustain the passive damage buff, Chroma, take damage to shields and health to increase and cap Vex stats.

Hildryn also comes to mind, since she needs shields or armor for pillage to have something to pillage so she can regain and sustain her shields to keep using abilities. So without an augment she cant replenish her shields with skills versus infested. If she went to proper viking school she'd know that you can pillage anything and everyone! Atleast she knows that you set things on fire after you pillage it.

Grendel's Nourish is also another since he needs enemies in his belly to use it, so in certain encounters it ends up unusable.

[Aruquae]

Is it weird that I find Octavia to be more interactive less afk?

Constantly moving to the beat of Never Gonna Give You up in order to get the buffs, while also using the conductor augment is perfect for my l little Rickroll parade. 
Of course, I use 200% duration as opposed to max duration, along with a lot of range and strength… so idk. Maybe it’s just the way I play her.

[LordDragoonis]

its unlikely they change Octavia's abilities due to them not interacting with light sources

[UnstarPrime]

Personally, I think the only problem with Octavia's Metronome is that it triggers off every single foreground note instead the beat (which generally aligns more with percussion).  I have no idea why it was released this way, but it creates a confict between the design of a song that's nice to hear and the design of a song that's easy to press buttons to.  It's a bummer that the best way to play the musical Warframe is to make a "song" that sounds bad.  And it results in gameplay where most players just mindlessly mash their buttons to clumsily scrape up the buffs.

Most humans instinctively feel an urge to tap their toes, bob their heads, etc to the beat of songs; there's something innate to these rhythms that our bodies connect with.  I can't help but think that Octavia would be much more enjoyable and easy to use for everyone if she took advantage of this rather than conflicting with it.

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 hours ago, Zahnny said:

I can't remember off the top of my head if there are other frames with Conditional abilities, requiring certain actions or conditions to be met to work. But I doubt Mirage and Octavia are the only ones.

Limbo and Equinox come to mind as possibilities but I have to admit I don't use those frames much.

Octavia is easily my least liked frame and has been since it was announced. Shame too as I was hoping for a Bard frame but I can't rock with the Disco Duck.

At the end of the day, I think the differences in Frames are a good thing, as it can appeal to diverse playstyles, but it can sting when a Theme or Archetype isn't a fit for your personal playstyle or preference.

My solution is to accept that the frame isn't for me and move on. 

[Raikh]

Mirage wasn't really changed because she was conditional, but because the conditional was broken as hell and it would take a significant and likely on-going effort to get it working properly.

Octavia is definitely a weird one and I personally never really liked the rhythm minigame. But she is also so unhinged in terms of kit and power level that I do not see them making it any easier to access that because it keeps her usage rate in check. Its very far from a great way to balance the game but thats what it is for now. And for what it matters, it works and on top is even customizable to fit your needs.

I do think Octavia could be improved because the best way to play her is often not compatible with using music you like, so rather than being particularly enjoyable for the musically inclined she can actually become annyoing or atleast somewhat conflicting. But not sure how to approach that ideally w/o just making it fluff rather than a game mechanic.

[Zahnrad]

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

Personally, I think the only problem with Octavia's Metronome is that it triggers off every single foreground note instead the beat (which generally aligns more with percussion).  I have no idea why it was released this way, but it creates a confict between the design of a song that's nice to hear and the design of a song that's easy to press buttons to.  It's a bummer that the best way to play the musical Warframe is to make a "song" that sounds bad.  And it results in gameplay where most players just mindlessly mash their buttons to clumsily scrape up the buffs.

Most humans instinctively feel an urge to tap their toes, bob their heads, etc to the beat of songs; there's something innate to these rhythms that our bodies connect with.  I can't help but think that Octavia would be much more enjoyable and easy to use for everyone if she took advantage of this rather than conflicting with it.

I can relate to this one personally. I have Daft Punk's Aerodynamic on my Mandachord but I never use it because I confuse the Beat and Percussion with each other and end up missing every note.

[_Anise_]

Quote

Since Mirage's Eclipse is being changed for QoL

nope, it's getting changed because it is bugged with the new lighting though I think its a good change since the mechanic was always anti-fun jank.

though I agree a LOT of Octavia's skills are just as jank and it would be nice to be able to have her play music I like instead of the same note over and over because it makes her skills work better

 

[TrapperCZE]

be honest, you only use metronome for invisibility, any other buff is there just pasively, so just map crouch toggle to scroll wheel and you are set up, no more carpal tunnel problems

the only reason Mirage got a change is because they HAD TO because of the new Light system, otherwise they wouldnt touch her since she is old and dosnt make them any money 

same here, octavia is old and dosnt make money = she will not get any changes 

 

also both are quite underused in terms of the yearly statistics so why care

the only reason they may decide to change her is because bad publicity from disabled streamers that use her for 90+h endurance runs and their system is flaging it as AFK (YES THIS IS REALY HAPPENING) becouse Octavias whole playstyle IS PASSIVE AFK by design, but even then silencing 1 person is propably cheaper than to do any chnages to Octavia ... and in this case it would be all changes thot no octavia player would like, aka removing the passive playstyle that we are using her for 

Edited March 20 by TrapperCZE

[JimothyStevens]

Do not tell DE about octavia. She's good so they'll nerf it if attention is given

[PrideB4TheFall]

On 2024-03-19 at 9:17 AM, UnstarPrime said:

Personally, I think the only problem with Octavia's Metronome is that it triggers off every single foreground note instead the beat (which generally aligns more with percussion). 

Why I almost always tie metronome to percussion. not exactly 1 to 1, but you get the idea. Since we're talking about the musical Lass, I'd like the ability to sustain a note in the metronome channel. (instead of playing 5 notes, 1 contiguous tone that fades away on the last note.) Implement with a second button press to highlight those notes to be sustained. (Like foot pedals on a Piano.) I'd like to see a higher amount of measures like 8 instead of 4 (Double the amount of notes.)

I've mentioned before that, I think her 4 could be an exalted weapon like a guitar or make use of a shawzin (Toggled not unlike Wisp's 4 with the boost Defining a directed cone-like attack / effect.) It would definitely be a substantial re-work, but putting some interactive elements in her 4, however limited might add some fun and engagement.

Edited March 20 by PrideB4TheFall

[Greysmog]

I think Octavia can easily be fixed by making anything you do on beat count for all of her buffs. You just unlock them in consecutive order, one after the other, and performing their corresponding action makes it raise higher than normal. 

You might have to make buffs end a bit faster, but I would happily take that if it meant actually using her other buffs. Hopefully they'd also make it so missing the beat didn't subtract your progress and instead just didn't give you anything and tada, a really simple and easy way to make her other buffs way easier.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Yes I like it; it's fine. 

[Arbitrary]

Bit of apples to oranges.

Eclipse was at the mercy of your environment for what you got. All of Metronome's buffs are directly under your control, no outside forces messing around with it.
It would be nice if some of the buff values got adjusted though. Controversial opinion, but I think the invisibility should be completely removed.

[LRonHoover]

I absolutely despise Metronome. I want to crouch and shoot when I actually want to crouch and shoot. If I do anything other then a spam song, I have to find the timing over and over when I'm not host. And nobody else has ever even tried to get a buff from me from anything else but a song that fills up all the notes.

 

It's easy to cheese, it just bores me.