Inaros Rework: Pros and Cons

[bangarang35]

Passive: general concept is fine. However, the range of his attack, the slow attack speed, and the high number of hits required to revive all make this very difficult to pull off actually. This needs to get buffed a little. That's way too many hits required to self revive especially if the difficulty increases each time you get downed. The self revive needs to be a little easier to pull off successfully.

Ability 1: it's fine

Ability 2: I love sandstorm now. His best ability in my opinion. This is his real ULT now lol.

Ability 3: It's a lot better than his old base scarab armor. However, this ability is held back still. This is largely because the health doesn't seem to be scaling properly and thus isn't increasing ability strength. I specifically remember Pablo saying that his strength would scale with his health as well. This is not working at all right now though from what I can tell.

Ability 4: This ability in concept is fine, but it's a little disappointing. This is mainly because the ability's projectile speed is very slow compared to similar spreading abilities, such as spores. Also, it's attack launch shape is in a cone which is definitely not optimal for cc. His 1 is already a cone CC and the 1 travels instantly to all enemies in range. Having two cone cc abilities just doesn't make sense. The cc from the 4 would be way better if it just instantly/quickly dispersed to all enemies in a certain range. Or perhaps it could instantly/quickly disperse to a certain number of enemies in a certain range. The ability is just not cutting it right now, even with over 300% range. If not for the fact that this ability 4 can be coupled with his 2 in order to make his 4 spread faster, I'd be pretty disappointed with this one. But using sandstorm as a crutch is not the right answer to fixing this. An ability has to be solid on it's own and synergy is supposed to make it that much better. Again, the new 4's cone shape is bad and redundant with his 1's cc shape, the travel speed of the 4's projectiles is just way too slow, and there's very few projectiles that go out at once.

 

Overall, it's a better kit. Inaros is B tier right now largely just because his new 2 is SOOOO GOOD. His new 2 is carrying him hard right now. Please fix/buff those few things I referenced and add scaling ability strength with health like Pablo had mentioned in the devstream. 

Edited March 27 by bangarang35

[SweetAnubis]

4 hours ago, bangarang35 said:

Ability 2: I love sandstorm now. His best ability in my opinion. This is his real ULT now lol.

totally saw that coming when i saw the reveal. lookin forward to playing around with it on my B skills build.

 

as for the armor i love that i no longer have to waste a mod slot for that status immunity. and that i can cast it while moving!!!! so much better! but ur right if its not performing a function as advertised then i agree that needs fixed. (i've only played briefly with the new kit as im packing for a trip) i'm also so used to pairing it with firewalker so i havent noticed much difference other than whats already been mentioned.

the 4 would have been better if they hadn't completely removed its heal. its fun and all with the sand cats sprouting everywhere and all but the armor strip isnt enough to justify complete removal of the healing it gave.

Edited March 28 by SweetAnubis

[bangarang35]

1 hour ago, SweetAnubis said:

the 4 would have been better if they hadn't completely removed its heal. its fun and all with the sand cats sprouting everywhere and all but the armor strip isnt enough to justify complete removal of the healing it gave.

Absolutely, this 4 is just not cutting it right now. Something has to give. If the healing was on it still then perhaps you could call it a good ability. Right, now it has arguable worse or comparable cc to his basic 1 and it has way less armor strip than other armor strips. If not for his current 2 being SOOO GOOD, he would drop down to C tier for sure. He will go up to A tier though once they add back in that health scaling to strength, buff the passive, and buff/tweak that 4.

[SweetAnubis]

1 hour ago, bangarang35 said:

Absolutely, this 4 is just not cutting it right now. Something has to give. If the healing was on it still then perhaps you could call it a good ability. Right, now it has arguable worse or comparable cc to his basic 1 and it has way less armor strip than other armor strips. If not for his current 2 being SOOO GOOD, he would drop down to C tier for sure. He will go up to A tier though once they add back in that health scaling to strength, buff the passive, and buff/tweak that 4.

i was excited for the concepts the showcased but held my breath for the actual release. the scarab armor is still rly his only base ability i use with my playstyle, but i was hoping theyd give better love to his other skills numbers wise. sadly they didnt so here's hoping they listen to player feedback and make some tweaks.... either boost the armor strip on 4 or bring back its healing capabilities. otherwise its just a flashier pocket sand as its stands. the new 2 was great for people doing dps builds tho hands down its incredible. the 4 and the passive seem to be the real weak spots... doesnt need another full rework just some tweaks to the numbers and maybe bring back the heal as well.

[A_Lil_Kitsune]

Feel like the changes haven't really done much at all for Inaros. Ran a short disruption (20 waves) and was already getting 1 shot straight off the revive. Feel like the frame's really limited now due to the lack of regen options, or just straight up the lack of an overguard/shield gate. I really wanted to like it, but with the 5k health and 900 extra armour, still getting sniped off revive is pretty unenjoyable, especially on such a low count disruption*. Just feel like Inaros is still in the boat of anything else would be more effective damage wise, and the survivability is only surface level.

*I assume it is low, I barely play disruption.

[Steel1977]

Thank you DE for the Inaros rework. Frame is really fun to play with!😁

[XaoGarrent]

I really don't know where I stand on this.

On one hand, Inaros is still overly reliant on just having really strong weapon setups.

On the other hand, he has really good weapon synergy in his 2. It might actually be the best grouping ability in the game now.

His kit does work now... But it's a tad underwhelming. Especially for a frame that basically demands two green shards.

I think he still needs work... But only a little.

My suggestions are to make Elemental Sandstorm part of the base ability, and make his 4 tic faster (same damage, but spit up into faster tics to proc corrosive faster) and scale a little harder.

[bangarang35]

1 hour ago, A_Lil_Kitsune said:

Feel like the changes haven't really done much at all for Inaros. Ran a short disruption (20 waves) and was already getting 1 shot straight off the revive. Feel like the frame's really limited now due to the lack of regen options, or just straight up the lack of an overguard/shield gate. I really wanted to like it, but with the 5k health and 900 extra armour, still getting sniped off revive is pretty unenjoyable, especially on such a low count disruption*. Just feel like Inaros is still in the boat of anything else would be more effective damage wise, and the survivability is only surface level.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that his kit is total trash  because it's not. It's B tier right now. It's a huge improvement. However, I understand why your a bit disappointed. There's a little more work that has to take place but it not tons by any means. Just a few buffs and a one or two additional mechanics  ought to do it.

 

@XaoGarrent I hear you. This is exactly what me and @SweetAnubis were discussing earlier. I'm not completely satisfied with this rework, but that 2 is so good that I can't be sad by any measure. I will say the visuals on the new passive look cool. Plus, he does have two functioning death gates now, granted one is hard to activate and the other is in an augment and it could possibly kill you. His core problems were genuinely resolved mechanically speaking. However, his passive slightly, his 3 slightly, and his 4 moderately are not up to par.

That 4 just can't compete with other ULTs. Honestly, think about just comparing his 1 to his 4. The 1 is faster, and cheaper crowd control. What incentive is there to use the 4? Plus, I can cast his 1 more than 5 times and still be cheaper than the cost of the 4. The 1 could cc everything within 30 meters several times faster than the 4. The 4 has longer range in terms of sheer stats, but the swarm projectiles are very few in number and they simply attack whatever is closest within the vicinity of the cone. The spread speed of the 4 is kinda slow too and the spread range is comparable to the range on his 1. So if your initial swarms cc something close to you then the 4's cc won't go much further than the 1, which will likely happen pretty often. Plus, it's a duplicate hit box for the 1 and 4. Why do they both have a cone shaped CC hit box?!?! All of this would mean that the 1 can make a real argument for being the better cc option over the 4 which is supposed to be his ult.

Of course, his 2 is hands down the best cc option he has now. I love the new 2 if that's not clear lol. Anyways, hopefully the devs make those few changes. They need to  add in that scaling ability strength with health feature they advertised too. 

[XaoGarrent]

18 minutes ago, bangarang35 said:

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that his kit is total trash  because it's not. It's B tier right now. It's a huge improvement. However, I understand why your a bit disappointed. There's a little more work that has to take place but it not tons by any means. Just a few buffs and a one or two additional mechanics  ought to do it.

 

@XaoGarrent I hear you. This is exactly what me and @SweetAnubis were discussing earlier. I'm not completely satisfied with this rework, but that 2 is so good that I can't be sad by any measure. I will say the visuals on the new passive look cool. Plus, he does have two functioning death gates now, granted one is hard to activate and the other is in an augment and it could possibly kill you. His core problems were genuinely resolved mechanically speaking. However, his passive slightly, his 3 slightly, and his 4 moderately are not up to par.

That 4 just can't compete with other ULTs. Honestly, think about just comparing his 1 to his 4. The 1 is faster, and cheaper crowd control. What incentive is there to use the 4? Plus, I can cast his 1 more than 5 times and still be cheaper than the cost of the 4. The 1 could cc everything within 30 meters several times faster than the 4. The 4 has longer range in terms of sheer stats, but the swarm projectiles are very few in number and they simply attack whatever is closest within the vicinity of the cone. The spread speed of the 4 is kinda slow too and the spread range is comparable to the range on his 1. So if your initial swarms cc something close to you then the 4's cc won't go much further than the 1, which will likely happen pretty often. Plus, it's a duplicate hit box for the 1 and 4. Why do they both have a cone shaped CC hit box?!?! All of this would mean that the 1 can make a real argument for being the better cc option over the 4 which is supposed to be his ult.

Of course, his 2 is hands down the best cc option he has now. I love the new 2 if that's not clear lol. Anyways, hopefully the devs make those few changes. They need to  add in that scaling ability strength with health feature they advertised too. 

His 4 is obviously not really meant to be an "ult," as much as a debuff and DoT ability. I don't think its main function is meant to be crowd control, it just does that too.

Energy cost aside, it's better to compare it to something like Hydroid's 1. It doesn't need to be super high damage, as it's meant to supplement other stuff, with a DoT and armor strip.

It's also fine as a cone (as it's a giant cone), but it needs to spread faster. 4 (and possibly 3) probably should scale to power strength in addition to health, and it should just be faster in every sense. Faster spread, faster armor stripping, faster projectiles.

Try replacing his 1 with Wrathful Advance, and running a viral/electric status dagger zaw with reach, Melee Influence and Exodia Force. A setup like this synergizes with his 2, and gives him a really straightforward flow of 4 > 1 > 2 > Melee.

Edited March 28 by XaoGarrent

[SweetAnubis]

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

make his 4 tic faster (same damage, but spit up into faster tics to proc corrosive faster) and scale a little harder.

id say this and return the heal function to it to return some of his sustain, would make it feel a bit more useful in end game content, and more deserving of the 4 slot.

[Gaxxian]

His 4 should give Overguard with each damage tick. Or something like that... right now it just feel like the worst of all 4 abilities even when its cool looking...

[XaoGarrent]

15 minutes ago, SweetAnubis said:

id say this and return the heal function to it to return some of his sustain, would make it feel a bit more useful in end game content, and more deserving of the 4 slot.

That in addition to all the crowd control would certainly make him a solid support frame. He has plenty of self sustain, but right now all of his healing only goes to himself, unless he runs combat discipline. ...Which is a valid choice given his enormous health pool and self healing.

His 2 is also kind of disruptive, at least until it finishes. He kinda forces everyone to play at his pace. I think he could use a little more supportive design to counter balance that, Inaros is a *little* selfish for the type of frame he is supposed to be. Being able to give his team some healing over time through an offensive ability I think would help him be a little more appreciated on a team.

[bangarang35]

30 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

His 4 is obviously not really meant to be an "ult," as much as a debuff and DoT ability. I don't think its main function is meant to be crowd control, it just does that too.

No!! Don't give them any slack lol. It's a underwhelming ULT. All fourth abilities are ULTs though. Pablo confirmed this back in a Devstream for Nov or Dec of 2022 when showcasing the Grendel and Yareli rework.

 

A cone isn't the optimal shape for a cc hit box though. So for an ULT to use that hinders it. Naturally, a 360 cc is always more effective since you can impact enemies in all directions. You're right though. The cone isn't the biggest issue by any means for his 4. The speed is certainly the biggest issue. I mean sit there an count how long it takes to swarm one enemy and then spread to another. Likely in the ballpark of 10 seconds. That's a long time to cc just a few guys, They gotta speed that up. Not cutting it DE. Sandman needs just a little bit more love. He's not terribly far from the goal though.

[bangarang35]

12 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

His 4 should give Overguard with each damage tick. Or something like that... right now it just feel like the worst of all 4 abilities even when its cool looking...

Well instead of giving him a shield or overguard, they chose to give him a death gate which is common for health frames. A death gate is a sufficient substitute for shields and overguard as seen with Nidus. The issue is that Inaros new passive is a death gate but it's too difficult to even revive the first time. They need to make it a bit easier to revive. Then it won't be so bad. Plus, he does have the second death gate in his 3's new augment. 

 

You are correct though. His 4 is his worst ability right now lol. That's sad to say taking into account how much potential it actually has. Why does it spread so much slower than similar abilities like spores when it does way less damage and cost so much more energy. At least let the cc aspect shine if the rest of it isn't gonna do well. Something has to give with that 4 DE.

Edited March 28 by bangarang35

[XaoGarrent]

20 minutes ago, bangarang35 said:

No!! Don't give them any slack lol. It's a underwhelming ULT. All fourth abilities are ULTs though. Pablo confirmed this back in a Devstream for Nov or Dec of 2022 when showcasing the Grendel and Yareli rework.

 

A cone isn't the optimal shape for a cc hit box though. So for an ULT to use that hinders it. Naturally, a 360 cc is always more effective since you can impact enemies in all directions. You're right though. The cone isn't the biggest issue by any means for his 4. The speed is certainly the biggest issue. I mean sit there an count how long it takes to swarm one enemy and then spread to another. Likely in the ballpark of 10 seconds. That's a long time to cc just a few guys, They gotta speed that up. Not cutting it DE. Sandman needs just a little bit more love. He's not terribly far from the goal though.

The devs also said that pre-rework Volt wasn't meant to be a crowd control frame despite his 4 doing abysmal damage, but stunlocking crowds of enemies, at a time when mass crowd control wasn't as common of a thing. Sometimes the devs are rather misaligned with what they're actually creating.

That doesn't mean that what they've made isn't working. Giving every frame an "ult" would be very limiting design wise, many frame designs just don't gel with that whole nuke-the-room-with-your-4 idea these days.

I'd argue Grendel doesn't even *have* an ult, just an absurd amount buffs/debuffs and synergy between all of his abilities, along with very high mobility. And that's fine, he's an incredibly strong frame despite his lack of an ult. You could maybe call his 4 a "nuke," but it's not the highest damage ability and it does toxin, which is heavily resisted by armor.

Against things other than Corpus, the reason it does damage really has more to do with the armor strip and possibly build choices you've made. And that armor strip helps with *everything.* As does the fact he's a walking ball of viral. Put an Incarnon weapon in Grendels hands, and THAT is a nuke. He doesn't *NEED* an ult.

Or take Kullervo, his 4 is NOT his ult. Rather, it powers up or synergizes with his other abilities. Kullervo doesn't really have an ult either, but you could argue that Kullervo has two nukes, and they even work together. You could argue that his 3 and 4 maybe become an ult together, but neither of them are individually. He just does buckets of damage, and he can do it in a number of ways. I don't think anyone would claim he's worse off for not having an explicit ult button.

Edited March 28 by XaoGarrent

[VincentNacon]

I don't like this rework.  I want the old Inaros back.  I also want old Devour and old Sandstorm back.

The new Sandstorm only last 4-6 seconds... The old one let me keep going for long as I like, provided that I had good mods attached.

Devour was useful and let me heal at my own term.

 

This isn't better... at all. 😡

Edited March 28 by VincentNacon

[bangarang35]

2 hours ago, VincentNacon said:

I don't like this rework.  I want the old Inaros back.  I also want old Devour and old Sandstorm back.

The new Sandstorm only last 4-6 seconds... The old one let me keep going for long as I like, provided that I had good mods attached.

Devour was useful and let me heal at my own term.

 

This isn't better... at all. 😡

sorry to hear that. There's a few problems for sure. Come on though you gotta be fair. Example the old passive simply didn't work beyond sortie level. This one at least always works. The 2 and 4 had serious fundamental flaws back then too and the 3 simply gave 225 armor and did nothing else. Honestly, it's a complete upgrade. I'm not saying it's a perfect upgrade but it is better. That new two is vastly better than devour though. Let's do a side by side. There are some clear tactical benefits for the new two.

 

Devour vs New Sandstorm

cc 1 enemy with a pull--- cc entire rooms with a pull

did pathetic dmg---does reasonable dmg that can actually kill SP enemies too

was stationary---is now pretty mobile

invincible throughout ability duration--- invincible throughout ability duration

heals a lot always very fast---heal amount based on builds

could turn one enemy into a sand minion after 10 literal minutes in sortie or higher---turns any swarm afflicted enemy into minions when killed

 

Old scarab armor vs scarab shell

gave an extra capped 225 armor and did nothing else- gives as much armor as your build allows which could easily be over 500 armor

scarab shell makes you status immune by default

scarab armor allowed you to charge ability at your desired pace---new one makes you charge all at once and exposes him. 

 

On paper, the stats and effects of the new armor ability is definitely better. However, I do acknowledge that the amount of time it takes to cast that new scarab shell is just way too long and is dangerous. The old charge style was superior in that sense.

 

Just saying it's not all bad. There are pros and cons. Seems to be more pros than before though by a bit.

Edited March 28 by bangarang35

[bangarang35]

3 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I do that and i don't die one time.

People are just bad in general and blame the changes. It's quite pathetic that every time DEmake a rework to a warframe they make the same kind of cries even though the numbers prove them wrong.

I don't think we should immediately dismiss every critique about a rework as nonsense or whining. I can't even say how many people bad mouthed me for pushing the Inaros rework effort everyday for more than a year. Lot of them said "skill issue" or it'll never happen. However, the Devs did listen to the feedback from me and the rest of the Inaros crew because our feedback was thoroughly explained and sensible.

To be fair, DE doesn't have the luxury of spending hundreds of hours cross reviewing their designs. They're running a business and honestly have more important things to do from a business perspective. Since they don't have that time though, sometimes they have some holes in their logic and they're aware of that which is part of why they like players to provide feedback in the first place. This is one of those times where DE genuinely needs to listen to the players feedback. There's few minor issues holding the sandman back still to be honest. So, I understand when players are disappointed. I'm not saying he's trash because he's definitely not anymore, but the sandman's kit effectiveness truly could benefit from a few buffs and mechanical tweaks/additions.

 

As for the one shot, a player should be safe from most threats even with a standard Inaros build. There are a few things that can 1 shot like rad procs and a sniper hit from one of the acolyte's. You should be ok either way though now since he has 2 death gates via his passive and the 3's augment. Might need to tweak the build if getting 1 shot at low levels though. Use the 3's augment and adaptation for extra tankiness.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 8 minutos, bangarang35 dijo:

Use the 3's augment and adaptation for extra tankiness.

That it's exactly what it's work. 
 

hace 8 minutos, bangarang35 dijo:

I don't think we should immediately dismiss every critique about a rework as nonsense or whining

I tend to be direct because I don't know all the words in English as it is a language that I have learned empirically. The thing is that I'm tired of people asking for things they criticized before, after a rework.

An example with hydroid:

You criticize the puddle because it is slow and mostly useless, what does DE do? remove the puddle. Then you demand that they give you back that which you yourself implied was boring or useless.

Do you understand where I'm going?

Edited March 28 by CosoMalvadoNG

[bangarang35]

28 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I tend to be direct because I don't know all the words in English as it is a language that I have learned empirically. The thing is that I'm tired of people asking for things they criticized before, after a rework.

An example with hydroid:

You criticize the puddle because it is slow and mostly useless, what does DE do? remove the puddle. Then you demand that they give you back that which you yourself implied was boring or useless.

Do you understand where I'm going?

I get your point but it's not quite that simple. Even in my rework for Hydroid, I definitely critiqued the puddle. However, I didn't remove the puddle. I simply provided a new and improved version that fixed it and made it way more fun which was multiple teleporting cc puddles that also could have tentacles pop out.. I think people just have a hard time communicating or explaining why they don't like something. No worries man. I get it. Just try to take it easy on them lol. Ask them to explain in detail what the problem is. Could be valuable feedback

 

Also, DE hook the sandman up with those buffs and mechanical tweaks/additions so he can be A tier. You left out things you said on stream would be included in the kit.

Edited March 28 by bangarang35

[Stormandreas]

Pros:

• Abilities are very barely usable now.

Cons:

• Whole personality is still just Health and Armour
• Abiltiies have no synergy
• Abilities have abysmall damage
• Abilities require Archon Shards for armour stripping
• The whole "iframe or you die" cycle thing is clunky as hell
• Augments are pretty damn poor (no, the sandstorm one does not use the mods you'd think it does. From testing, it ONLY takes elemental mods and the base damage values of your melee. It does NOT take Melee Damage mods, crit or status)
• 3rd ability is still just "get armour" with slapped on status immunity. Very very very boring.

There's SO much they could of done with Inaros. Make him make pools of Quicksand.
Have Scarabs cause more credits to drop.
Summon egyptian style skelly warriors
Call in power from an Egyptian god or something

But no. They kept the whole "This frame is only Health and Armour" design and still went down the route of pretty mediocre, forgetful and unsynergistic abilties sadly.

I honestly wouldn't put him anywhere near B tier. He's still down at F, MAYBE D. His kit just has nothing in it that any other frame could pull off better.
I agree Sandstorm is his best ability now... that says something about the rest of his kit, considering sandstorms damage is awful, it's augment just doesn't take the mods you'd really really want it to, and it stops you being able to jump, bullet jump, be overly mobile other than lateral movement or use any of your weapons.

Edited March 28 by Stormandreas

[CrownOfShadows]

16 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

His 2 is also kind of disruptive, at least until it finishes. He kinda forces everyone to play at his pace.

Came here to say this. It's great for Inaros. It really sucks for everyone around him as it just takes the enemies away.

[Neightrix]

Aside from allowing Sandstorm movement to be effected by sprint speed mods (like Reave) I think his first 2 abilities are in a good spot.

Scarab Shell is largely forgettable and replaceable. I'd rather just run Primed Sure Footed and another ability. Maybe if the armor value was significantly higher it would be more appealing, but it would need to approach Elemental Ward (cold) and Eclipse to be worthwhile.

LOVE Scarab Swarm, although I feel the corrosive stacks could count up 3 or 4 times faster. He wouldn't need to be as fast at gathering into armor strip as Mag, but getting closer would feel a lot better. I also think restoring its ability to heal objectives would be a good idea so the rework wouldn't feel bad for those who used that attribute.

Edited March 29 by Neightrix

[Zebiko]

Inaros is okay, better than before, but still lacking a bit. He's not future proof, and will probably go back to collecting dust when the game moves on and power-creeps him out again.

His 1st ability was nerfed a bit, mostly just the range, and made kinda useless as he has 2 other CC abilities that are better.  But all the CC abilities are not that strong, like Citrine's 4th ability.  I do like how they reverted the take down's back to the old way, before the parazon changes, making it easy to do again.

His 2nd ability is nice, but makes his 1 healing kinda pointless. I wouldn't mind if his 2nd ability didn't heal, as it still CC's and gives him an Iframe.  I really like the extra movement speed though.

His base armor is really low for a frame without shields. His 3rd ability armor scaling is also kinda bad.  He needs either better scaling or more base armor.  I feel like I'm investing too much into armor to survive (umbra set, arcane guardian, and blue shards), to have as much armor as other Health tanking frames.

His 4th ability is lacking in the damage department, and only scales on Health, and costs too much energy for what it does. His other abilities scale with Strength.  I would have liked him to have health scale all his abilities along side with strength, having DE decide on the scaling rates.  The only reason to have strength on Inaros is to scale the armor from his 3rd ability. His other abilities are not worth scaling for damage.  This would make Precision Intensify also usable on Inaros.  The armor striping is slow, but really doesn't matter if the enemy dies fast, having more impact on tankier enemies, which is actually just fine in my opinion. I wouldn't mind if his 4th ability lost the CC and gained more damage or utility in some other way (range, less cost, etc.)

I do not like any of his augments either, not good enough to use, unfortunately.  And, I don't have the space to mod them in, as my current build is favoring duration over range, which hurts.  Inaros doesn't care about duration that much, and favors range for his 1, 2 and 4th abilities.  But I would like to subsume a power buff on his 1, which all require extra duration, as I like to have buffs last about a min (60s) long so that it doesn't feel awful to constantly press.  This is kinda a play style choice for me, aka a 'me problem,' but still, I would like some extra wiggle room with modding.

I haven't died enough to comment much on his passive, but have seen videos mentioning his base attack speed slow, but then again, many youtubers have this weird fixation on speeding up all the animations for a more twitchy play style...

That being said, I have been enjoying playing him, but he's mostly just a tanky boi, not using his abilities much.

[bangarang35]

On 2024-03-28 at 3:42 PM, Stormandreas said:

Abilities are very barely usable now.

This is not entirely false, excluding his 1 and 2. Understand why you say this.

On 2024-03-28 at 3:42 PM, Stormandreas said:

Abiltiies have no synergy

accurate. Synergy isn't a requirement, but every ability should at least be solid on it's own too, which is not the case right now.

On 2024-03-28 at 3:42 PM, Stormandreas said:

Augments are pretty damn poor (no, the sandstorm one does not use the mods you'd think it does. From testing, it ONLY takes elemental mods and the base damage values of your melee. It does NOT take Melee Damage mods, crit or status)

We were actually told this augment was supposed to be rolled into the base ability in the devstream. So, that's another thing that didn't happen but was advertised.

On 2024-03-28 at 3:42 PM, Stormandreas said:

3rd ability is still just "get armour" with slapped on status immunity. Very very very boring.

it's got cc immunity as well, but I hear you. Honestly, it's a tank ability so it's not supposed to be the "fun" ability. This is more in line with tank skills like iron skin. It does it's job but it'd be so much better if they put that ability strength scaling with health feature in the kit like they advertised.

On 2024-03-28 at 3:42 PM, Stormandreas said:

But no. They kept the whole "This frame is only Health and Armour" design and still went down the route of pretty mediocre, forgetful and unsynergistic abilties sadly.

I honestly wouldn't put him anywhere near B tier. He's still down at F, MAYBE D. His kit just has nothing in it that any other frame could pull off better.
I agree Sandstorm is his best ability now... that says something about the rest of his kit, considering sandstorms damage is awful, it's augment just doesn't take the mo

HAHAHAHA, brutal, come on man he's not F tier anymore by any means. His 2 is great seriously. I went to Hydron and dominated the whole map with just the 2, similar to frost and volt. First time, I've gotten over a 1000 kills so fast on Inaros. Even went to Lith on SP and dominated with that 2'S CC and finisher openings, especially if you couple t with the 4's damage and armor strip too. You guys are sleeping on just how 2 that good is. Excluding his one, the rest of the kit is barely usable though for sure, no argument on that whatsoever. Definitely not satisfied with the passive, 3, or 4. They're not trash, but they do need slight buffs/tweaks to be solid individual abilities.