PC PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[ShuraBlack]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb HezDergator:

It's worse than the Nezha changes even though the Nezha changes were already really bad

 

What's there not to get?

I guess you didn't got my point XD I don't care about Dante and I don't get the hype around him, but that is indeed just my own opinion, that's it.

[DarkMaelstr0m]

10 hours ago, OggerAZ said:

Quick reminder that restricting your loadout selection randomly is not a good way to impose difficulty. Just makes it more luck based. Now I gotta pray to RNGesus that I get one of the 30 out of 540 weapons that are good and I have a build for.

This, making the difficulty of the content vary wildly based on what you get isn't difficulty it's just annoying.

[RyllusPurple]

Instead of making more fun game modes like void flood and improving on alchemy, we got netrasortie.

 

no for real, how is it that we cannot finish dante's leverian exhibit, but he got nerfed? THe leverian was always a well done marketing pitch, so why?

 

gimma back the plat

[Joshua1462]

I've been reading a lot of the replies people need to chill out. I typically don't comment on hot fixes but I think I will because Dante is one of my favorite frames. 
let's start out with a good thing "Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%" this is great cuz I actually really like this ability and was kind of sad that it didn't really do much but now it is a bit stronger.

the changes to his over guard I feel like we're unnecessary and didn't really solve the issue I was having with him if anything it made it worse. overguard is like a thin piece of paper it's not much and it can't get damage reduction from any mods. granted and low level missions yes having that much Overguard makes you pretty much unkillable. but Dante is not for low level content you can only get him from end game content. therefore I feel like his only form of survivability should be meant for endgame. before this hotfix when, I would fight level 200 enemies I would have to constantly recast my 2&2&4 and, it felt like I didn't have time to shoot or use any of his other abilities. may I propose a solution to this, since Overgaard is becoming more popular as a survivability option, why not make it so Dante is one of the only frames that can give damage reduction to Overguard. this would make him a great support to other frames that can have huge amounts of Overguard like Rhino and would fix his constant spam of 2&2&4 and it doesn't have to be anything big maybe like 35% damage reduction to Overguard.

now on to his damage abilities for casting 3&3&4 adding a line of sight to this ability. it ruins a lot of synergies with other warframes that deal AOE damage dealing abilities like Ember or Garuda. and if anything it just makes me want to use my guns instead because guns require line of sight and can kill quicker. I propose to remove the line of sight again but reduce the range by a little bit to make it more balanced

and a little message for everyone who is upset please chill out. this is a free game and probably one of the best free games I've played I think the developers have done a great job
and to the development team keep up the great work guys!

to clarify I'm not saying this hotfix is great. they did a great job with the game in general

Edited April 5 by Joshua1462

[HezDergator]

5 minutes ago, Joshua1462 said:

I've been reading a lot of the replies people need to chill out. I typically don't comment on hot fixes but I think I will because Dante is one of my favorite frames. 
let's start out with a good thing "Increased Wordwarden’s weapon damage on warded allies from 30% to 50%" this is great cuz I actually really like this ability and was kind of sad that it didn't really do much but now it is a bit stronger.

the changes to his over guard I feel like we're unnecessary and didn't really solve the issue I was having with him if anything it made it worse. overguard is like a thin piece of paper it's not much and it can't get damage reduction from any mods. granted and low level missions yes having that much Overguard makes you pretty much unkillable. but Dante is not for low level content you can only get him from end game content. therefore I feel like his only form of survivability should be meant for endgame. before this hotfix when, I would fight level 200 enemies I would have to constantly recast my 2&2&4 and, it felt like I didn't have time to shoot or use any of his other abilities. may I propose a solution to this, since Overgaard is becoming more popular as a survivability option, why not make it so Dante is one of the only frames that can give damage reduction to Overguard. this would make him a great support to other frames that can have huge amounts of Overguard like Rhino and would fix his constant spam of 2&2&4 and it doesn't have to be anything big maybe like 35% damage reduction to Overguard.

now on to his damage abilities for casting 3&3&4 adding a line of sight to this ability. it ruins a lot of synergies with other warframes that deal AOE damage dealing abilities like Ember or Garuda. and if anything it just makes me want to use my guns instead because guns require line of sight and can kill quicker. I propose to remove the line of sight again but reduce the range by a little bit to make it more balanced

and a little message for everyone who is upset please chill out. this is a free game and probably one of the best free games I've played I think the developers have done a great job
and to the development team keep up the great work guys!

It's one of the worst changes made to date breaking a streak of good changes

It feels unnecessary 

[ScorpDK]

I do think the Dante nerfs were excessive and should be dialed back somewhat, while DE takes a closer look at the core problem behind (some) of the complaints.

 

For instance, instead of heavily lowering Dante's Overguard accumulation, fix the problem people actually have with someone using Dante in their group - it affecting gimmick mods or abilities that require the Warframe taking direct HP or shield damage. 

Eg: Rage. Since its inception, DE has added more and more mechanics that completely prevent or heavily restrict the usefulness of this method of energy generation. Overguard being the latest offender.
Shields, Overguard, Ironskin, Adaptation, etc. Even your Warframe's own armor stat negatively affects the Rage/Hunter Adrenaline. This has not changed, and I think it's high time it does.

Rework the abilities' and mods' function to something that works even if you're affected by an extra protective layer that may come from another frame. Nip the problem in the bud, instead of just waiting for the next support/defense frame to show up and the problem repeating itself once more.

[Cepheus_Antollare]

10 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Dante Balance Changes

• Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight.
  • this felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since it could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning. So to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your Line of Sight to be impacted by it.

 

 

very few maps have any clear line of sight that isn't obstructed outside of a few narrow paths. you might as well have removed 'tragedy' entirely

 

 

 

[Joshua1462]

14 minutes ago, HezDergator said:

It's one of the worst changes made to date breaking a streak of good changes

It feels unnecessary 

I mean yeah I don't agree with a lot of the changes. but we can convey that without throwing hate around. plus if it turns out to be a big mistake they'll probably fix it

[Daviodraan]

The Onos's Elemental Excess Perk (tier 4 evolution) Is still not working.

Also Sevagoth Glaukus's Jelly parts are still showing some Odd behavior.

The first channel of Energy color is pointless. The 2nd channel will take over 98% of the color, with some very specific exceptions of really contrasting colors maybe shining through it under very specific lightning.

Also, the outermost layer still looks like crystal clear water, even white under heavy light focus, like direct sunlight.

Base skin for example, nails it. You can choose the wildest, most contrasting colors, and apart from some very specifics spots where the stronger tone takes a bit more control, you can see one color flowing inside the other, and then some other areas have it almost in reverse. 

Edit: Forgot to add that somehow the past patch also broke Huitzilin Syandana's  secondary channel (The Mosaic inner circle)
It used to respond pretty well to dark or unsaturated colors on release, making a gradient from dark to lighter within the scale of the color you chose.
It now pretty much ignores dark colors and defaults to dark jade with every not-bright/saturated color.
 

Edited April 5 by Daviodraan

[Berzerkules]

11 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

 

Enemies with Crowd Control immunity (ex: Overguard) have had the following interactions removed: 

• Frost's Ice Wave Impedance Augment (specifically the frozen trail that slows them)
• Rhino’s Stomp (slow effect)
• Primary Obstruct (weapon jamming)
• Exodia Epidemic (enemy suspension)
• Zenurik Temporal Drag (slow effect)
• Wisp’s Breach Surge (blind)
• Halikar (disarm)
• Mesa’s Muzzle Flash (blind)
• Proboscis Cernos (stun and pull)
• Mag’s Counter Pulse Augment (robotics disabling and disarm)
• Mag’s Fracturing Crush Augment (immobilization) 
• Malicious Code (immobilization) 

 

Crowd control officially dead....

GG peace

[Hawk197]

After playing Dante a bit more... He feels like Kubrow S#&$. You mean to tell me at base, he only gives like, 200 overguard on his 2? For 25 energy, you only give 200 overguard? The actual hell? I can get more overguard on RHINO than I can Dante. Even if Dante gives overguard to everyone, that's still no excuse for the cost to gains. The ONLY WAY this makes any damn sense is if I'm with 3 Khoras who all have Venari and a pet active, so in theory I'm giving out 2.2k total overguard, which is just BARELY more than Rhinos 1.9k self overguard.

 

His 3 barely hits any damn thing. You crouch behind a CHAIR and suddenly you can't hit anything beyond what's directly in your face. That is pathetic. The damage wasn't even that great to begin with, so why the line of sight? There are plenty of nukers, both ability and weapons platform, that can do Dante's job better for less. Mirage, Gauss, Mesa, even Gyre post "fix".

 

Wordwarden, and Noctua by extension, is still S#&$. Until it can use your Invocations and Canticles, it will forever BE S#&$. Who cares about a single target turret that deals 50% of it's damage, when it's easier to buff up and one shot with nearly any weapon? Noctua doesn't even do good damage for it's costs either. Who cares if it can hit 4 enemies? My Nukor does the same thing, whoopdie do.

 

Pageflight is the only good ability Dante has anymore, and even then it's meh. Not increasing status damage is whatever I suppose, at least it can act as a distraction to help make up for the paper thin survivability stats Dante has.

 

I'm heading back to Helldivers until there's new content that's worth playing and DE learns how to properly nerf things.

[Sylonus]

9 hours ago, Stomno said:

I don't believe it, sorry for saying it but you don't actually play your game. I know my flaws but this is something you have to admit it, DE members don't play the game.

That isn't the case here, Megan and Rebecca and several others put plenty of hours into the game, even if their playtime is limited to what they play on streams, which, (who knows if that's the case), it's still probably quite a bit more playtime than their average user.

Listen, I'm with you on disliking the nerf mentality they have in an effort to balance playrates, I think it hurts the game and the playerbase far more overall than it helps, I think the majority of the time, the way they handle balance ends up making fewer viable options and skewing playrates to be even more onesided, until they nerf that thing, and the cycle continues.

But hyperbolic and just demonstrably untrue statements like this aren't helpful, I can't say with confidence how many DE members play their own game with any regularity, but at the very least Megan, the community manager you replied to, definitely puts in plenty of hours, on stream, Rebecca the creative director has certainly in the past, as do a few others we see on streams, at the very least, just because they have a different view of what's the best strategy to handle balance, does not mean they don't play it.

There are definitely community members who want nerfs, and cheer when they happen, though I would argue they're likely in the minority, and that it lowers fun and engagement overall, especially the way they're often handled so hamfistedly such as this case, a 60% nerf to one ability, a 50% to another, a LOS nerf which is pretty monstrous, as well as the quiet 'fix/nerf', all right after release, to me, that's just wild and awful.

But that said they're not out to ruin your fun intentionally, and at the very least the one you're directing your comment at certainly plays the game. I'm sure plenty who work there do, and I'm sure some at DE even dislike the way balance is handled and the general nerf mentality, it's just unfortunate that however the decisions get made, so many of these choices are what goes live.

[Rahlgrim]

I want to sincerely thank you guys for these GI lighting fixes! I felt like I was bellyaching a lot, and I'm glad to see my Orbiter look right again!

 

While I do believe my floofs enjoyed re-enacting Thriller

 

I think we're all glad things are back to normal! 

 

Shadows are still a tiny bit funky in the Operator room, but tbh I can live with that all day, and yall have done big work to restore the space!

 

I really appreciate the hard work you guys do. I don't expect Warframe to be the hardest or easiest. Tbh I expect it to be the craziest, in a very good and quality way. And you guys do a good job of delivering. 

 

I will weigh in on this topic of player challenge, and installing restriction on kit. I've had a bad taste for that, a little bit, since Duviri. I prefer the direction of Archons and Netracells, where we are operating with the full power of a Warframe. Thats what I think about doing when I get home, wrecking stuff with all of my super powered kit. That doesn't mean I want an easy farm either, on the contrary. I prefer endgame that gives me challenging reason to bust out my major frames or test new builds for months to come.

 

Duviri was a layer of frustration in that regard, but pinpointing the best weapons in the game, guaranteed, kept me going. I knew that at most I have to do each cycle 2-3 times, and then I'm done. I can't say I was thrilled to see strongly limiting RNG applied to the metrics of a forever loot pool mode. Whatever debuffs or enemy affixes are another matter, but locking down the kit is a bit of a drag at this point. I'm still going to give this a fair shake and figure things out, but I believe any restrictions should atleast cast a wide net, classes of weapons (like Bow or Shotgun Sorties do) or maybe deeper pools of Warframes that satisfy a certain role (ie "damage frames" week or "tanks" week, as random, hard to qualify, examples).

 

I'd just like to weigh in with that, because its the truest sentiment I see about balance.  I won't for a second though think this is the end of the world or something. I know DE is constantly evaluating accessibility vs challenge vs the near-omnipotent power of Warframes... but thats what we are here for. Thats whats on the logo, is frames busting loose.. and I, like a lot of people, think there is infinite room to explore and make great content in that direction. And before I am mistaken, I absolutely want a hell of a challenge involved. I'd like missions that drop you directly into very high level enemies, with some punishing affixes and twists that I can't even dream up right now. 

 

 

Above all, this is still one of the most extremely entertaining games I've ever known, I have evangelized it strongly for a very long time, and will continue to. And thats how it goes, its hard for me to give critique on this game without highlighting how special it is, and the journey that its on. Hard to think of another game right now, where I'm just itchin' to see the next chapter, maybe Dragon Age? But not quite like this. I really can't wait to see what 1999 brings.

 

 

Edited April 5 by Rahlgrim

[StyreRai]

Please also take a second look at the Arca Titron. Yes it was busted before and was expected to be more so with the recent slam changes, but as a traditional base type weapon with terrible stats compared to today's contenders, main damage type of impact, slowest attack speed melee, and abysmal follow-through, the gimmick of charges was the only thing going for it.

Even then it required high effort through normal attacks with very low damage (even more so with SP armor values with normal heavy attacks needed to get charges) needing outside buffs and low time to get, hold on to, and use the charges alongside the risk of losing the charges through normal attacks for the result of high reward.

Post nerf, playing it today and its been reduced to high effort for low reward. Other melees with no mechanic needed to get a stronger slam deal SIGNIFICANTLY more damage than this now.

At least treat old traditional weapons to be able to at least have a niche that is viable or even contends in this era of Incarnons. What's the point in investing in non Incarnon weapons for their gimmick when Incarnons are going to be stronger in the end while normal weapons with a crutch and with no stronger variants get nerfed to the ground. Its a trend I am seeing recently.

A buff to 150% additional damage instead of only 100% per charge results in 10 charges to have about the same damage of 4 charges pre nerf. A significant drop in damage so that it isn't as busted as before but can still have at least a viable niche. I know I don't speak much with how many people actively use the Arca Titron and its low usage rate, but its just disappointingly sad that the answer to a broken mechanic of a terrible weapon stat wise is to nerf it to the ground.

Edited April 5 by StyreRai

[TheVoyant]

I think it's not a matter of them "not playing the game" but more that they're simply out of touch with what their players want.
Then you factor in all the other aspects they have to concern themselves with, bug fixes/designs/expansions/profits/etc.

It's why it's essential that you have members of the team who can bridge that gap. The problem is too often that pipeline of information always gets obstructed. It happens in almost every business. Whether it's a coffee shop or movie studio, it's easy to widely miss the mark. How many surefire hit movies flop? 

I think if DE wants to succeed in terms of player satisfaction it needs to hit the breaks and properly plot a course based off the most common wants and desires.
Start small and simple and focus on that. The communication is always key and right now for some reason what the Devs are hearing doesn't seem to be what is being said. 

There are a lot of different types of players for Warframe, but the complaints well, they're usually the same ones over and over I've seen for years now just recycled into the current circumstances. Solutions need to be made at more foundational levels or we're gonna keep having a lot of frustrated experiences which suck for both the devs and the players.

They just need to get in touch with the base at large & stop with the weird choices.

Edited April 5 by TheVoyant

[Heligaider]

11 hours ago, TGKaze said:

Anyone that doesn't have a reactor and at least a solid build on all their frames and several weapons of primary/secondary/melee is going to be severely hindered. For anyone who's sunk time into each frame and multiple loadouts, it'll be annoying but absolutely doable.

I didn't even know Titron became good until it's back to being mediocre at best again

[Onna_Kishi]

Hi DE, last time i replied in this forum was helminth nerf of roar.

Im not gonna be runting for next tree pages.

I just wanna ask, do Nezha and Dante really was that appresive both of them lost 60-70% of their damage do to range\line of sight?

[Arddoran]

Just saw that you're forced to play with the weapons that appear in the new game mode. Thanks again DE, for ruining it like Duviri, my friends stopped playing because they were forced to use trash weapons in a Steel Path mission, where you deal minimum damage, and now it's even worse with all these conditions to receive a fair reward. You guys really hate us, now I understand. You waste a lot of time and forma on the weapons you like, FOR NOTHING. Melee nerfs, explosive/ammo nerfs, frame nerfs, helminth nerf, unbalanced rivens LET'S NERF FURAX DISPOSITION BECAUSE PPL WERE USING IT WITH THE AMALGAM MOD JUST FOR THE RADIAL BOOST FROM EXPLOSIVE WEAPONS, meanwhile Torid and other incarnon left untouched since Duviri release. Ah yes, the multishot bugs, the bugged Glaives that you need to use heavy attack to explode 2 times, just to deal 0 damage, at 1m from the target, the ''fix 1 bug and add 1000 other bugs in the game'', now I don't even want to open the game for the daily rewards.

EDIT: now remove Limbo from the game, and delete all the CC abilities, they became useless with these Eximus dumb units with their overguard. Could just reduce CC effects, but nooooooooooooooo, let's just throw them all to the closest trash bin.

Edited April 5 by Arddoran

[-Minibeave-]

Hello, player who just came back and spent the last two weeks of my life updating my arsenal.

You removed all of the CC effects that I just spent my time setting up and farming for.

You trashed my Exodia Contagion.

And you nerfed Dante.

Remind me again why I should wait a week to be time gated to grind for things, when there's a good chance you're just gonna nerf it a few days after I acquire it. Genuinely frustrating as hell.

[spudster888.]

Ah yes, we aren't going to nerf dante into the ground, proceeds to make him completely useless. Congratulations to anybody asking for nerfs, you're braindead. This is a power fantasy, if you don't like being powerful there are plenty of other games for you to leave and go and play instead. I love how dante and the nezha augment were dumpstered in the game update, absolutely fantastic work -_- 

[UnKun]

13 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight.

You call this "not meant to suspend the fun factor" and "most reasonable"? I strongly disagree with modifications that make it more difficult to use. That makes it not fun. It's like instead of making bad things comparable, you make good things worse.
I came back to play after 1 year. What I really have a problem is the navigation system, which is getting worse and worse than before and doesn't appear to be fixed.
The party finding system that still has to fight for announcements in the chat is still something that makes life worse instead of being called classic.
And did you know that CC has almost become useless in the game?
MESA SARYN is still OP as 1 year ago, but Dante can't be like that. Wukong who used to be Casual before also changed as well.

Edited April 5 by UnKun

[Cntrl]

12 hours ago, Megazawr said:

still no fixes for these old bugs:

• Moonwalk after transference (it still happens)

It's been over 7 years for the love of god. I beg

[-Minibeave-]

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

Crowd control officially dead....

GG peace

Genuinely this. Wtf DE

Overgaurd is ruining the game in so many ways lol

[MrDugan]

12 hours ago, Mazifet said:

@Skoomaseller as i know you are a certified arca triton BONK enjoyer

how does this make you feel

They nerfed a non-meta weapon into the dirt.  I had multiple forma and a riven on this weapon before the initial slam changes.  Build 10 charges, heavy slam did massive damage to heavy armor SP enemies, even past basic SP starchart levels.  Before the changes.  After the changes it was bugged, and did no damage.  They fixed that, and then it worked the same way again.  Now they've nerfed, again, a non-meta barely used weapon that most people don't remember exists and it is doing the same amount of damage now as it did when it was initially bugged after the initial changes.  This patch was nothing but nerfs and a poorly thought out game mode.

[NoHaloHere]

Deep Archimedea is fun and challenging, however I vehemently disagree with the personal modifier "Transference Distortion" is solo mode. In multiplayer there are a number of methods to handle downed/dead players, mission objectives, etc., even with the Void Angel gimmick. In solo mode these methods are to say the least - "unreliable". This single modifier is effectively preventing me from reaching "Elite Archimedea" is solo mode. This could be rectified via several methods, for example:

1. "Transference Distortion" in solo mode can be limited to once every 30 seconds or something similar.

2. A way for a single personal modifier to be re-rolled once a week, using either some resource or currency, much like the re-rolling the "Decrees" in Duviri.

This isn't about me personally complaining about something being difficult - this mode is just fine; this is an issue with certain combination of parameters in solo mode effectively obliterating the chances of unlocking "Elite Archimedea" mode.