LoS Fixes for Dante’s Tragedy coming in next Hotfix

[Snake]

17 minutes ago, RivaAurelius said:

I will not be dropping any money on Jade the way I did on Dante unless these changes are rolled back. This is one of the worst bait and switches I've seen since the Doom Eternal Anti-cheat drama.

[TzXtetriC]

Why destroy dants's 4th ability? Its complete trash now, thanks for destroying a frame. Would've just reduced the amount of OG he gives to team members but still receive full amount for self cast.

Edited April 5 by TzXtetriC

[DTaina]

Revert the nerfs to Dante and CC.  You've not only killed Dante less than a week after his release, but also hurt CC frames.  

Have Overguard work with Rage, Hunter Adrenaline and those frames that need to take damage in order to function.  Problem solved across the board.  

Make it so that enemies with Overguard are affected by CC without taking damage.  You'd think enemies would be slowed down by a patch of ice on the floor, or that a powerful stomp would send them flying into the air, regardless of whether or not they have Overguard.  Really, Overguard protects against slippery floors?  The laws of physics?  Just make them not take damage.  Problem solved.  

Please listen to the community, DE. 

#UnbindDante 

[GamingSausageDog]

I was so excited for Dante, and after seeing how well he was performing and fun he looked, I decided to get the supporter pack. I heard all the people saying 'oh he'll get nerfed soon' and thought no way, he's not overpowered in any way, strong, but with limitations. Don't I feel stupid.

 

If you stand by these changes, I doubt I'll ever be buying a supporter pack again after this burn. Now I'm one of those jaded people waiting expectantly for the cool fun new thing to be gutted. Please revert the nerfs, they're unnecessary, don't solve the only anti-synergy problem that Dante even causes, and WAY too early.

Edited April 5 by GamingSausageDog

[ReliwielWise]

Dante is now completely unusable. What u managed to do in 6 presses now requires double which is extremely energy consuming in modes like steel path where is lots of overguard needed in comparement to Dante's health/shields/armour and h/s/a of other frames. We used to spam 334 to dominate maps but now we spam 223 to just be able to stay alive, being forced to extremely limit usement other abilities. LOS with dmg expire on tragedy is just completely bad. We had to mind only about when is the best time to press Tragedy but now we have to pay extra time to position ourselves very precisely which drastically reduces our dmg because the damage of dark verse expires overtime. I'm not even talking about that energy orbs drop less from enemies being killed by Tragedy so it maybe kills enemies, but it will hurts your energy economy alot. And if you miss the nuke, then prepare for long energy orb farm. I thought that wizard frame will be ability based not weapon based. Dante still gives alot damage, but i found no use to it bc it consumes high amount of energy and you will most likely miss it. Even if u preform the Tragedy positioning and timing perfectly, in less than second u will have full room of enemy again, because those around small boxes or just slightly behind corners will not get affected at all. Making you face enemies without energy. Dante just went from hero to total bottom of trash can. My advice is to just sell Dante for 25k credits and use them to obtain Inaros quest from Baro.

[Snake]

2 hours ago, artistredmdlee said:

 

Wasn't it that this entire situation happen because the "playerbase" was calling for a nerf xD

 

2 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Define "playerbase"

Is it 10 angry people on the forums ? 
(mind you those 10 angry people ask for everything to be nerfed not just dante)

[Tuna4242]

14 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

Those crying about the dante changes. Seethe harder.

I don't apolagize for that remark. It's true, Dante was wildly overtuned. Is he dead now? LOL no. Not at all.

Actually go ingame, and play him. Try it, it's absolutely fine. He still generates Overguard for FREE, he still nukes entire rooms pretty easily.
The only problem he really has is Acolytes and energy consumption (due to requiring 3 ability casts to do his nuke)

The solution? The story simply needs to not be deleted after casting

Wow so polite and constructive. "If you don't like a frame being instantly nerfed after release, COPE AND SEETHE!" 
Dude, he's brand new and DE took a knife to his little owl throat. 

[MetallicPulse]

This nerf feels just as reactionary as the old ways things were done and there were multiple posts assuring players that the decisions made would be thought out. Prior to the nerf there was even a post trying to restate this, but the nerfs were so bad that it makes the community at large truly believe that these kinds of posts serve only to cushion the blowback players are about to receive.

There is an expectation players hold, and a standard we hope is achieved. 

Undo the nerfs. Give players back the original Dante. Then come back with a proper balance at a later date. 

Truly a Dante's Tragedy... do better. I hope you take this as constructive criticism and not silence the forums for honest and civil feedback. 

[Fruit_Brute]

Ok

my 2 cents on this. ( not that it really matters )

Here is the reality check.

Did DE make a mistake here?  Yeah, they probably did.

CAN they listen to this thread and revert ?  Probably not. They want to save face. And as such, won't be able to admit they went too far.

 

Dante was a boatload of fun to play. I really really enjoyed him. 

After the 'tweak' meh. Its more work that it is worth to use him for less effect.  I will go back to Kullervo and Citrine.  Just as much fun and more reliable in what they do as this 'Better' Dante.

 

[RivaAurelius]

17 minutes ago, GamingSausageDog said:

I was so excited for Dante, and after seeing how well he was performing and fun he looked, I decided to get the supporter pack. I heard all the people saying 'oh he'll get nerfed soon' and thought no way, he's not overpowered in any way, strong, but with limitations. Don't I feel stupid.

 

If you stand by these changes, I doubt I'll ever be buying a supporter pack again after this burn. Now I'm one of those jaded people waiting expectantly for the cool fun new thing to be gutted. Please revert the nerfs, they're unnecessary, don't solve the only anti-synergy problem that Dante even causes, and WAY too early.

Funny you should use the word "jaded" considering the name of the next warframe lol

 

11 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

We need more of these memes.

[Hakugami]

I really liked Dante's caster playstyle as a heavy caster player myself.

While I understand the need to change Tragedy because of how effective it is clearing mobs up to a certain point, I think slapping on LoS on it goes against his caster style and with certain tilesets would be absolutely horrendous to use. After the change, I had just dropped Tragedy all together unless in a large open space and just spammed Dark verse.

I would like a Tragedy revert but if it is something devs feel strongly about, may I make suggestions for a compromise?

I am trying to figure out what you guys were planning to do with the LoS implementation. I mean if it was "too strong", why not just make damage fall off with range? I do like the suggestion of another player suggest using Dark Verse to damage and tag enemies with no LoS. Then Tragedy to make it trigger on tagged enemies. Similar to how I play Kullervo with curse and wrathful advance.

As for the Overguard problem.. what if.. Light Verse and Triumph were a tap (self)\hold (party with less effectivity or range)? I understand this can be used to troll people though but it is a way to not add OG on people who don't want it. 

Also the Divine Retribution range lowering feels unnecessary. Like it was caught in the Dante crossfire.

Edited April 5 by Hakugami
Forgot something

[Twisted_Wisdom]

9 hours ago, TheTundraTerror said:

I honestly can't believe people are calling for Ally Overguard amounts to be nerfed because ONE frame and TWO mods are negatively impacted.

The players that don't like Dante's Overguard now get to avoid doing missions where Dante is part of the group if they want to avoid his Overguard (unless they use dragon keys).
Dante actually needs his Overguard for survivability.

Imagine what its like NOT being able to group with 2 popular warframes: Volt and Wisp, because their speed buffs aggravate simulator sickness (this causes players to feel physically ill). There is no gaining additional tolerance to this over and above what's needed to manage simulator sickness in the first place.

The only way to play warframe without being aggravated in whatever fashion by another players warframe abilities is to avoid grouping with that/those warframes.

DE doesn't actually care enough about the issue to find a fix for it. DE is more concerned with providing a well-balanced warframe, getting us excited about it, then nerfing it inappropriately (because they addressed the wrong issue within a week of its release).
- DE even said there was NOTHING wrong with Dante's damage, and some players just wanted his Overguard adjusted.

Why piss off what might be a majority of the player base on purpose when we are DE's bread and butter?! Why do it?
If Dante was as 'well-balanced' as we were told (by Reb?) and Reb said Dante will only be TWEAKED, why has the warframe been gutted?!
Why do this on purpose?! Why lie?!

Players PAID for what they DIDN'T get in the end. The Forma, Orokin Reactors and our time aren't free (because it costs one or the other).

Then there is the other (incomplete list of) nerfs:
- Arca Titron, faction mods...
- Nezha gets an augment that makes him viable as a nuker but you nerf it and leave Saryn untouched (as an example).
Augments are meant to enhance game play not neuter it.
- Melee guidance had some unfortunate side-effects, but...
- Mirage's Prism has been mentioned as getting a nerf...

Enemies with Crowd Control immunity (ex: Overguard) have had the following interactions removed:
- Frost's Ice Wave Impedance Augment (specifically the frozen trail that slows them)
- Rhino’s Stomp (slow effect)
- Primary Obstruct (weapon jamming)
- Exodia Epidemic (enemy suspension)
- Zenurik Temporal Drag (slow effect)
- Wisp’s Breach Surge (blind)
- Halikar (disarm)
- Mesa’s Muzzle Flash (blind)
- Proboscis Cernos (stun and pull)
- Mag’s Counter Pulse Augment (robotics disabling and disarm)
- Mag’s Fracturing Crush Augment (immobilization)
- Malicious Code (immobilization)
(these were missing in the patch notes)

... just add these to the ever-growing list of the already nerfed.

If 'balanced' means becoming more mediocre because nothing is allowed to stand out, to be outstanding, then Warframe's 'endgame' is only going to be one of mediocrity (and FrameFashion can't save that).
Everyone that believed DE's hype on Dante is owed a refund on the resources (pity about the time) they wasted.
DE "fixing"a frame that didn't need fixing while 10 year old bugs still remain, is a wrong focus.

As the "The Nerfening" appears to be getting used more frequently and with ever increasing gusto, maybe its time to find a replacement for Warframe.
The choices: give warframe a quick death or experience its dying piece by piece, bit by infested bit...
Warframe WAS the best game i ever played.

I hate to think what DE are going to do with the Jade warframe later in the year.
In a Warframe Devstream a long, long time ago (I remember watching that one), DE Steve said they wouldn't nerf the strongest frames/weapons but would work on bringing the rest up to par instead. Doesn't look like Warframe has reached this particular evolution yet and probably never will, sadly.
Warframe might have made that first glorious step towards that better, more elegant and more tasteful direction with Dante, but DE couldn't help getting another Nerfgasm out of it instead which (sadly) hastens its demise.

Edited April 5 by Twisted_Wisdom
typo

[Darkauscus]

Full revert needed and maybe just have him give less Overguard to Squad....that is it. Otherwise you make Dante go from an A Tier frame (he wasn't even S Tier) to a C Tier frame aka not worth using ever.
No point nerfing a frame that is not on the top 5 most powerful frames, I honestly don't understand this move, specially when it was not a nerf it was a public execution of what was a fun and well put together frame.  Plus we were told it would be a slight tweak...yeah it was anything BUT a tweak. I'm sorry to say but this is a major major L for the whole Dev team and worse even for the community.

Thanks and hope y'all see reason.

[Siic07]

I'm scared of the next hotfix

I'm afraid they didn't listen to the game community
 

[Gandalf_White]

21 pages on this post alone, 22 pages on the original post with the nerf. 

Just revert it already god damnit. There was no reason to do this nerf. Even your own PARTNER CONTENT CREATORS are calling you out for ALL of these recent unwarranted nerfs. From Dante, through Nezha's augment all the way to the CC nerfs.

 

Not even AoE and Wukong nerfs had this much of a backlash as this.

Edited April 5 by Gandalf_White

[Waeleto]

Just now, Siic07 said:

I'm scared of the next hotfix

I'm afraid they didn't listen to the game community
 

The next hotfix will be them not listening AGAIN, the actual show hasn't begun yet, it'll begin tonight when the update drops

[Digital_Malz]

2 minutes ago, Siic07 said:

I'm scared of the next hotfix

I'm afraid they didn't listen to the game community
 

I'm not scared. I'm sure they won't listen to the community. So I have zero expectation.

[TzXtetriC]

Scared? Just leave dant in the box and never touch it again, thats what they acheived.

[Shodian87]

Dante will be fine once they fix LoS. He's still fun to plqy.

[ChaosEnby]

I never comment on Forums because of previous experiences with others but here we go.

This patch feels EXTREMELY out of hand and has not fixed anything that people asked for. At this point, saying that you're listening to feedback is more gaslighting than fact. If the playerbase was listened to, the issues with OG as a whole would be fixed. I agree that Dante's overguard needed a small nerf. Perhaps in the same vein as how Styanax's acts in that allies get half as much or something similar, but this just killed all enjoyment I had with the frame.

The community has emphasised again and again that LoS is a jank POS and should be removed or added to ALL frames to make it consistent. 

This patch feels like a reaction to threatening the current meta but... Games that switch up the meta often are the ones that survive the longest. Look at LoL, for example (I hate the game but you can't deny the meta changes often). Meta's SHOULD be challenged, SHOULD be changed, SHOULD evolve. I would MUCH rather have had other frames buffed than have a new and honestly fun frame be nerfed into the dirt. He wasn't the best at anything he did, but he was new so everyone was annoyed at how many people played him and noone gave it time for people to grow bored of the shiny new toy for him to become less common, instead you ruined him for everyone. 

If your issue with Dante was basic star chart, remove SP then because basic star chart is the focus, right?
If Dante was nerfed because OG was a problem then fix OG.
If Dante was nerfed because his 3-3-4 combo can nuke (it becomes MUCH less nuke in higher level content) then nerf all others that can map nuke.

This has killed all excitement I had for the future of this game, like it has many others.
There's an easy fix, revert the last patch and work on resolving the issues with Overguard.
Make Dante's OG apply to allies for half, or even a quarter, the amount it does to himself.

None of this will happen because its SO obvious now that noone is actually LISTENING to the community. 

I, and I'm sure many others, are angry at this patch for good reason.

This isn't even to mention Nezha's augment nerf. Could have made it so range couldn't be increased, would have been much better.

Edited April 5 by ChaosEnby

[iamlordvaldomero]

It feels like the biggest scam, They took the time to promote for months this event and Warframe for this? 

[Mayhem-Ivory]

This is a joke. Nobody wants you to "fix" the line of sight. It needs to go completely.

Your "reasoning" for adding it was nonsense to begin with:

• Could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning

This is wrong. Just straight objectively incorrect. What you would actually do is use his Dark Verse against different groups of enemies in different locations, then seek out a point where you can detonate them all with Tragedy. That is because Tragedy is expensive, and you want to cast it as little as possible!

• to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your line of sight

Again, objectively incorrect. You don't even understand the consequences of this change. The result now is that, rather than thinking and using it tactically, you get forced to use Tragedy in every single group of enemies. Just because you need to cast it more often, doesnt mean the ability is "more active"; its just brainless spam.

And P.S. "more active ability" doesnt exist. This combination of words doesnt mean anything. An ability can be pro-active, which the old Tragedy was (like Gauss Mach Crush augment), it can be inter-active, which the old Tragedy was (and the old Eclipse); but being active just means that you use it.

[Gandalf_White]

6 minutes ago, Shodian87 said:

Dante will be fine once they fix LoS. He's still fun to plqy.

No he won't. He already isn't even when LOS sometimes works. Previously I could breeze accross the room, marking groups of enemies with Dark Verse and then killing them with Final Verse.

 

Now I can't do that. Now I have to mark a group, then waste a Dark Verse on the same group (because doing this on another group won't do anything much anyways) and kill them with 4, all while constantly staring right at them.

My off-meta guns (quellor, kuva karak, tenora prime) can wipe that group faster (ON STEEL PATH) than Dante can cast two Dark Verses and a Final verse WITH 2 tau casting speed shards. There's no point in using his damage abilities anymore.

Edited April 5 by Gandalf_White

[Sarulas]

3 minutes ago, Mayhem-Ivory said:

This is a joke. Nobody wants you to "fix" the line of sight. It needs to go completely.

Your "reasoning" for adding it was nonsense to begin with:

• Could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning

This is wrong. Just straight objectively incorrect. What you would actually do is use his Dark Verse against different groups of enemies in different locations, then seek out a point where you can detonate them all with Tragedy. That is because Tragedy is expensive, and you want to cast it as little as possible!

• to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your line of sight

Again, objectively incorrect. You don't even understand the consequences of this change. The result now is that, rather than thinking and using it tactically, you get forced to use Tragedy in every single group of enemies. Just because you need to cast it more often, doesnt mean the ability is "more active"; its just brainless spam.

And P.S. "more active ability" doesnt exist. This combination of words doesnt mean anything. An ability can be pro-active, which the old Tragedy was (like Gauss Mach Crush augment), it can be inter-active, which the old Tragedy was (and the old Eclipse); but being active just means that you use it.

 

+1 because I can't 'like' any more posts on this thread

Edited April 5 by Sarulas

[Shodian87]

2 minutes ago, Gandalf_White said:

There's no point in using his damage abilities anymore.

Okay, then don't? Lol

He's got other ones. I don't understand this mentality.