The new demolishers only disrespect endgame players.

[Turboameeba]

The new disruptions absolutely only disrespect endgame players. Disruption has always been about utilizing your knowledge and full loadout to overcome these harder enemies, in limited time. It has always been about your SKILL. These new demolishers are the opposite of that. If someone wants to use all their knowledge, and make a full loaodut to for example use Heat Inherit and heat stacks to take down a demolyst.. They hsould be able to. They put their experience to do that, with multiple weapons and their skill to make builds. Any player who has the skill to make builds that can take down difficult enemies, should be able to do that. Those are endgame tier enemies, you have to keep that in mind. We cannot even armor strip the new demos, and you even status cap them.. And slap the archon damage reduction on top. That only says you took the easy way out. If you deisgned yourself in a corner with this game.. That is on you, not the players. With endgame stuff like this, the players should be able to use their knowledge about the build system to their fullest extent. NOT LIMIT THEM LIKE THIS. That only screams bad design, nothing else. If you start slapping this Archon system on all enemies you deem "challenge" will only kill the game eventually. If this means you have to start designing stuff again, so be it. We should absolutely be able to use our experience, and skill about the build system fully. If this means you have to slap ridiculous defensive values over the enemies.. Even that is better design, than hard capping us like this. Like this we will always have the archon dmg reduction at the back of our minds.. The status caps at the back of our minds... Instead of the knowledge that we were able to take down an incredibly tanky enemy with our knowledge and skill..

 

Now we will only have the thought we were able to take down an enemy with the archon dmg recution system. There is a big difference there. This system does not make us feel good about ourselves killing them. Normal oldschool demolysts are much better design, as there people still can use their knowledge fully. Even with them, people still use their whole loadouts, jsut to take down one demolyst.

 

Please stop using this archon system on enemies. If you have to go out of your way to design more challenging enemeis, so be it. It is supposed to be endgame tier content, so of course it is harder to also then design them. Even if these demolysts had some stupidly high numbers as their healths, and armors etc.. It would still be better, than this Archon system.. At least people would then sitll know they took the enemy down with purely their knowledge, experience and skill.. Intead of overcoming some stupid system that has nothing to with your knowledge of building, and experience with the game.

Edited April 7 by Turboameeba
Typo

[0_The_F00l]

I do hate damage attenuation , but the rest of it ... I dunno man the Armor reduction limit and status stack cap feels pretty inline to a tough boss 

[Darkmega18]

I just point a brainstormed wildfrenzy grakata into their rear weakpoint after slowing them down with cold procs and letting it rip and they explode without moving a muscle after a few bursts in SP with no issues at all. or y'know, any old incarnon and a mild plan with some status variety.

Ain't nothing different about puzzling out damage attenuation and status resistance vs puzzling out a billion health but strippable with a nullifier pulse that can ruin all your plans. it's just another thing to figure out how to bypass and kill but with different required methods. I can also just casually slap them with tennokai a few times after slowing them up and they fall over just as well.

strangely the mech demos are softer than the normal mechs that spawn... which is what I REALLY thought the disrespect was. cause I was fretting like mad on how much stuff I'd need to dump into them if you see the difference from a normal enemy vs a demo of that enemy normally are, but it immediately vaporized from my mind into just a cloud of "where muh difficulty" confusion when I killed my first one.

Edited April 13 by Darkmega18

[Traumtulpe]

So what exactly is the problem? Because I'm not seeing *any* problems with these:

 

[Breyos]

I do think that there are increasingly more and more enemies that require excessive amounts of damage to deal with. Demolishers aren't among them, though. I have a pretty easy time with them.

[Chewarette]

When I heard the demolishers were going to be Necramechs, I thought it was dead on arrival (for me). Those dudes are already insanely tanky in normal missions so as Demolishers ??

But in the end, I largely prefer them over the standard demolishers, which vary from "lol one-shottable target" to "annoying af juggernaut with one billion armor and nullifying field that you need a very specific build to deal with".

Demolisher Necramechs are tanky but not too much, they have no nullifying fields, in my opinion they are correctly designed. As in not too tanky, not too frail, can be slowed/stopped, but too fast if you don't.

[Ryza]

I think this disruption could have been genuinely fun for level cap if the archon damage attenuation was removed from the demolishers (and the gruzzlings too). Archon damage attenuation harms build diversity because it encourages setups focused on raw consistent DPS. The unremovable armor was whatever because I had already planned a damage cap build through level 9999 alloy armor and damage res (but that was ruined by archon attenuation). Archon damage attenuation also kills status builds because raw consistent damage is simply better. The status limit I believe would have been innovative if slash and the non-DOT ones were capped while heat/elec/toxin were uncapped, but again it wouldn't matter because archon damage attenuation dictates that raw consistent damage is better.

The archon damage attenuation on mechs is virtually undetectable at low levels because you'll end up one shotting or two shotting them anyways though so most of the playerbase won't care.

Edited April 16 by Ryza
Added more clarity.

[Mr.Holyroller]

On 2024-04-06 at 10:53 PM, Turboameeba said:

The new disruptions absolutely only disrespect endgame players.

It seems like you didnt look into anything about the new disruption targets.
They dont use damage attenuation, they just have a ton of armor that can't be reduced.
If anything, it respects endgameplayers with the infinite power creep we've been given over the years.
I have to actually move some mods around to kill them.
They also barely even move if you cold proc them.

Here's an example of their eHP on the wiki:
P.S. they can be affected by things like Dagath's Doom

[Traumtulpe]

10 hours ago, Mr.Holyroller said:

They dont use damage attenuation, they just have a ton of armor that can't be reduced.

From personal experience, this seems wrong. I can literally oneshot them with a 12x heavy attack and no buffs, but on Mirage with her 500% damage buff *and* the clones, using the Incarnon Latron, they can take a bit of a beating. That's usually the trademark of DE's "we didn't factor in crits and combo multiplier damage attenuation".

[Drachnyn]

Patchnotes confirmed necramechs have damage attenuation.

[Yggdrazzil]

On 2024-04-15 at 2:21 PM, Traumtulpe said:

So what exactly is the problem? Because I'm not seeing *any* problems with these:

 

That was very satisfying to watch. Does that work as swiftly vs EDA disruption necramechs too?

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, Yggdrazzil said:

Does that work as swiftly vs EDA disruption necramechs too?

While I haven't tried that specific setup (due to the randomizer) in EDA, I haven't found those demolishers particularly tanky. In fact, the week that it had twin demolishers they felt very easy to kill.

Unless you're fighting a Leech Eximus Necramech they should die easily enough to heavy attacks.