Jade's quest and her in-game model after the quest

[Larrell]

Yeah, this is how I read it too.

[Drachnyn]

I dont think there is an actual clone of the child inside of the Jades we build. Just an orb of energy that a framechild could potentially feed on but nothing is there so we just get her baseline powers.

[Shinoyami65]

3 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

It does? News to me. Just because we do good things sometimes, doesn't mean we are good. I used to work for a MUD, and I did event stuff as part of my job for the "evil" side of the game, which enforced being in character. You know how hard it is to motivate and incentivize evil characters? It's much much easier to write questlines for helping people. In this case, while we are helping people, we screw up thousands of other peoples' days pretty bad. It's just always in the undercurrent of the game. How many corpus lost limbs or vital organs when we whizzed through, miniature murder machines, then couldn't pay their bills and were brain shelved. An idea that has it's own inherent derangement as it would be like solitary confinement on steroids.

And the game has never questioned that, called us out on our body count or made that a moral dilemma. As you admit, it's just an undercurrent. You can wipe out thousands of people in an endless mission but then go read the written lore and see all the frames' cool titles like "Saint of Altra" or "The Hoplite. The spear-carrier. The shield-bearer. The hero." or "The mercurial firemonger. The clarion of hope."

You may not perceive the character's actions as good, but the game's writers have been trying their darnedest to market around the idea of the Tenno/Warframes being heroes even if that there's a dissonance with the horde killing aspect.

[Emisha]

Honestly I feel really disinclined to play this warframe. The whole belly thing makes me uncomfortable as many others have said. Some people are justifying it by saying about women on front lines and stuff but this is a game, not real life. No amount of fashion can fix this and I really wish it was a toggle. It makes more sense that the frame we copy and rebuild isn't the pregnant one.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

19 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Are you not going to? You get a pretty good subsumable.

Nah.

It's actually pretty bad.

Both the slowdown and defence strip take time to fully apply and the damage is pitiful.

Tharros Strike can strip immediately and heal. Terrify can Armor strip immediately and CC. Pillage can defence strip faster and in a wider area and also provide shields.

I have Verglas with Shivering Contagion and use Tenet Glaxion so I don't need the slowdown.

I would consider it if it had the revive feature but it's not worth it in it's current state. They should have went with her 1 as a subsumable ability instead.

[Shinoyami65]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

I would consider it if it had the revive feature but it's not worth it in it's current state. They should have went with her 1 as a subsumable ability instead.

Her 1 would be a pretty bad subsume too TBH. The DoT is weak and the heal is worse than most other healing options available. The damage vulnerability might be worth it, but it's tied to her passive rather than the ability itself. 

[RobWasHere]

It's not the appearance itself, its just seeing them doing all these acrobatics, drop from hundred of metres, get shoot at with lasers and rockets is instinctually uncomfortable even if fictional.

And to be honest nobody would mind it if we did not have the quest, people would treat it as some sort of core or something like Lavos liquid ampules.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

2 minutes ago, Shinoyami65 said:

Her 1 would be a pretty bad subsume too TBH. The DoT is weak and the heal is worse than most other healing options available. The damage vulnerability might be worth it, but it's tied to her passive rather than the ability itself. 

Ah you're right, the vulnerability is tied to her passive. Then it would be bad indeed. I was hoping for a better alternative to Sentient Wrath.

[0_The_F00l]

I can see how this would make some people uncomfortable , 

I ... have had some very strong women in my life and culture growing up , that have been at the middle of a bloody conflict (and many of those have been pregnant ) that form the core of our stories , so for me it is not a shock. 

That being said , warframe isn't exactly a game that plays things safe with sensitivities , and while I do expect some customisation options to make things more palatable for others , it is probably not going to be a high priority.

[Alaena.]

1 hour ago, RobWasHere said:

It's not the appearance itself, its just seeing them doing all these acrobatics, drop from hundred of metres, get shoot at with lasers and rockets is instinctually uncomfortable even if fictional.

And to be honest nobody would mind it if we did not have the quest, people would treat it as some sort of core or something like Lavos liquid ampules.

I just want to say that for me it is the appearance and the quest itself makes no difference, the imagery of a pregnant warframe as the character im playing is deeply uncomfortable for me.

[omnie22]

just wanna echo what a lot of people have said on this thread, I have no problem with how she is presented in the quest, but the idea that we are playing as a visibly pregnant warframe is upsetting for basically every reason people have listed here, outside of some minor things about her kit she's one of my favorite warframes as far as gameplay is concerned, but I can't really play her because depending on how I'm feeling in the moment it could either make me feel slightly uncomfortable or send me into a full on depression spiral

[SpicyDinosaur]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I can see how this would make some people uncomfortable , 

I ... have had some very strong women in my life and culture growing up , that have been at the middle of a bloody conflict (and many of those have been pregnant ) that form the core of our stories , so for me it is not a shock. 

That being said , warframe isn't exactly a game that plays things safe with sensitivities , and while I do expect some customisation options to make things more palatable for others , it is probably not going to be a high priority.

I agree with the idea that maybe an alternate skin for free if so many people are uncomfortable with it. People should be able to enjoy the warframe without the baby bump if it's so visceral for them. She's a fun frame!

 

Also, something to consider, her exalted weapon (which is NOT her baby, as it is called Glory) upon being hovered over in the arsenal, unfurls her feathers and shows the belly, and the stance to see it manually in the arsenal just has you click a button called "Glory" so I do not think she is actually pregnant. The "core of her power" theory seems to hold weight.

[truthweseek]

If they're going for the biblically accurate angel design, why not make the bump a giant eye for an alt design. Just saying.

[Lordckart]

il y a 33 minutes, SpicyDinosaur a dit :

so I do not think she is actually pregnant. The "core of her power" theory seems to hold weight.

If you look at her noble no weapons animation she very much is. 

If you wanna go for symbolism the core of power of a mother is her child

[Cloudwalker71]

I'm relieved to hear I'm not alone in this! It's quite baffling, isn't it? From a lore perspective, it's a head-scratcher. Why on earth would her design include a baby? And Hunhow, of all entities, parting with such a feature when he could simply construct another model+ child? Our replica should definitely not be expecting; it's not even supposed to be a possibility. Imagine the chaos: a production line of Jades and a nursery full of mini Stalkers. 

I have to say, DE, it seems like this plot twist needed a bit more brewing in the think tank.

I hope we get an option to turn that off at least, but really it shouldn't even be a thing. I have to admit I feel way too uncomfortable to play her as is...

[Cloudwalker71]

45 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I agree with the idea that maybe an alternate skin for free if so many people are uncomfortable with it. People should be able to enjoy the warframe without the baby bump if it's so visceral for them. She's a fun frame!

 

Also, something to consider, her exalted weapon (which is NOT her baby, as it is called Glory) upon being hovered over in the arsenal, unfurls her feathers and shows the belly, and the stance to see it manually in the arsenal just has you click a button called "Glory" so I do not think she is actually pregnant. The "core of her power" theory seems to hold weight.

The most powerful Warframes in the game, Dante, Wukong, Saryn, etc, none of them have a big visible core of their power. Anyway, isn't the core of the warframe's power the Tenno? I don't think it's simply her power core. It very much is her pregnancy.

[Shinoyami65]

31 minutes ago, Lordckart said:

If you look at her noble no weapons animation she very much is. 

Just wanted to add that she actually seems to have 2 noble idles, one where she rubs the baby bump and a less frequent one where she just twirls around twice while her judgement motes fall around her. If they ever add an option to remove the "orb" perhaps they could also lock out the 1st animation and just make the twirling one her default idle if the "orb" is unequipped.

[SpicyDinosaur]

55 minutes ago, Lordckart said:

If you look at her noble no weapons animation she very much is. 

If you wanna go for symbolism the core of power of a mother is her child

I don't think that determines whether she is pregnant or not, just that they are leaning into the appearance.

 

Also, the second sentence is gross. So glad I got my tubes tied at 34, I would never want to be dehumanized that way by other people, and that concept has to be flowing out of you from somewhere. "Women are vessels..." etc etc

 

44 minutes ago, Cloudwalker71 said:

The most powerful Warframes in the game, Dante, Wukong, Saryn, etc, none of them have a big visible core of their power. Anyway, isn't the core of the warframe's power the Tenno? I don't think it's simply her power core. It very much is her pregnancy.

 

What do the appearances/features of other warframes have to do with this one's? Dante uses a book, now all warframes have to use a book. Wukong has a staff, now all warframes have to have a staff, I guess. I don't mean like an actual power core of some sort, but there are plenty of warframes that have features that are the center of their power (again Dante and his book, Wisp and her motes,) and that doesn't mean that's what animates them, etc.

 

The thing is, from a story perspective, you're both also wrong. She had the baby and then evaporated. So even before she passed away she already had the child. The child exists in game with the Stalker. Our Jade is just a replica from a blueprint. So unless you think she is a literal warframe Midge, then the blueprint probably didn't come with a fetus inside her womb. Hell, after giving birth your stomach is distended for awhile, anyway. Though it also generally doesn't glow, that only happens while you are pregnant. ;)

 

Here, let me show you what I was talking about:

 

Once you've leveled her up once, you get the exalted weapon. As seen here. When you mouse over it she unfurls.

 

In appearance you click the button with the same name to see what she looks like unfurled.

 

Now, maybe I forgot what I named the baby, but I don't remember calling it Glory, and that lacks some symbolism I think a universal name for the fetus would have. Sounds more like power. Power is not represented by fetuses, if anything they seize agency, as opposed to gifting it.

 

Yes this is all guesswork on my part, but it makes more sense than the many blueprints of Jade all coming with a 3-D printed baby inside her belly. I would at least expect warframe parts for the baby in that case. And maybe it working as an ally where you could release it from the womb (in a less than graphic manner) and it would be the one to shoot lasers at people, as opposed to the eye thing(s) that are Glory. Sort of a Master Blaster arrangement, if you will. But maybe DE just didn't think of it.

[Lordckart]

il y a 58 minutes, SpicyDinosaur a dit :

-snipped a lot there-

Yes this is all guesswork on my part, but it makes more sense than the many blueprints of Jade all coming with a 3-D printed baby inside her belly. I would at least expect warframe parts for the baby in that case. And maybe it working as an ally where you could release it from the womb (in a less than graphic manner) and it would be the one to shoot lasers at people, as opposed to the eye thing(s) that are Glory. Sort of a Master Blaster arrangement, if you will. But maybe DE just didn't think of it.

Not sure when i dehumanized someone but alright. Glory is the name of the exalted weapons she uses during her 4. The ball is the baby before it's born.

And you want Jade and the baby to do what now? Let's not do that

 

Edited June 19 by Lordckart

[Spyke2009]

My genuine reaction to the frame and it's continued "status" as looking pregnant: 

The design looks like it's a billowy skirt made of feathers that unfurl into wings so people could explain her bottom heavy design and we can see now the issue, in how they handled that. All her promo art and where she's featured. When the wings are unfurled are angled or obscured so you don't see her as we NOW understand it, permanent baby bump. So people couldn't even give them genuine feedback and if they did then they let DE down or they weren't listened to. They chose the surprise factor for the story, over giving people a chance to offer that. 

Story wise her having a "bump" is a great aspect in that sense. The mission itself, was very well done, good job. However, the fact that the frame itself continues to have that aesthetic of a pregnant belly afterwards. Is frankly kinda ridiculous. It also creates a bit of a potential problem. Due to the storyline being as it was (which again, I enjoyed). They kind of hid her pregnant aesthetic, while selling her in an RMT pack... Ruh roh raggy. 

Did DE not think if people had known the frame would be running around with a permanent late stage baby bump, it MIGHT have impacted sales in the negative for the myriad reasons people have given? Might be a good idea to pull a little back on the marketing "angle" methinks and put this approach back in the "oven" god so many point of view and pregnancy puns to make... This is the risk of this kind of deceptive marketing. Not everyone appreciates it when real money is potentially involved.

One idea is to perhaps disable purchase of her pack until you actually do the story and know what you're REALLY buying if you get the set. I think this SHOULD have been considered. I really dislike this aspect of the release. This "teeeheee no spoilers it's a surprise" approach, is wearing a little thin. There's also the hilarious aspect of stalker showing up and ganking you... while pregnant... with his child... bit... odd... 

Now... having said all that I DO actually like the frame skills wise. She needs some work and she's coming on the back of a large core update to the elemental mechanics and such. The bump doesn't put me off THAT much and isn't preventing me using her and mastering her. But... if I had a choice of a more post natal aesthetic alt skin or, I'd choose it in a heartbeat. The problem is, I'm betting this will not be an easy option to offer. As usually, this sort of shape aesthetic, is baked into their core meshes and rig design wise. Best we might be hoping for is a slider that makes that aspect of her less... pronounced. 

Oh and yet again, the bonuses of her signature weapons are bugged not offering the larger buffs when she uses them. Though that could just be UI as is the case in many bugs. 

[Lordckart]

Love how the first thing i said whas that i liked the quest and asked for an option turns me into the jerk here. Glad you agree with some of my points tho, would also be nice to use the good quote as well.

[Shinoyami65]

13 minutes ago, Spyke2009 said:

Now... having said all that I DO actually like the frame skills wise. She needs some work and she's coming on the back of a large core update to the elemental mechanics and such. The bump doesn't put me off THAT much and isn't preventing me using her and mastering her. But... if I had a choice of a more post natal aesthetic alt skin or, I'd choose it in a heartbeat. The problem is, I'm betting this will not be an easy option to offer. As usually, this sort of shape aesthetic, is baked into their core meshes and rig design wise. Best we might be hoping for is a slider that makes that aspect of her less... pronounced. 

Given the kind of customisations we've seen in previous skins, even non-deluxe skins, I don't think it would be impossible, although it may take some time to create it. A skin which retextures the bump, making it appear like flesh, armor plating or an accessory, or removing the glowing orb could all be options that wouldn't require changing her entire mesh/rig. 

[Hexerin]

9 minutes ago, Shinoyami65 said:

Given the kind of customisations we've seen in previous skins, even non-deluxe skins, I don't think it would be impossible, although it may take some time to create it. A skin which retextures the bump, making it appear like flesh, armor plating or an accessory, or removing the glowing orb could all be options that wouldn't require changing her entire mesh/rig. 

Covering it up doesn't fix it, it just makes it even worse because now the womb is actually enclosed and you no longer have the cope of "well it's just an orb of energy in there, so the baby's gone". Adjusting the model to remove the pregnant belly is an extremely small overall task, and could be done by a modeling intern in a couple hours or less. This is why it's entirely fair to ask for it to be a free alternative skin option.

Edited June 19 by Hexerin

[Shinoyami65]

8 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Covering it up doesn't fix it, it just makes it even worse because now the womb is actually enclosed and you no longer have the cope of "well it's just an orb of energy in there, so the baby's gone". Adjusting the model to remove the pregnant belly is an extremely small overall task, and could be done by a modeling intern in a couple hours or less. This is why it's entirely fair to ask for it to be a free alternative skin option.

Fair. I wouldn't mind that either, just giving other options as I don't know anything about how long it takes to model/tweak this stuff and DE tends to rush to band-aid things instead of taking the time to properly address the issue (i.e. Dante's release)

Edited June 19 by Shinoyami65

[Spyke2009]

23 minutes ago, Lordckart said:

Love how the first thing i said whas that i liked the quest and asked for an option turns me into the jerk here. Glad you agree with some of my points tho, would also be nice to use the good quote as well.

IF that was aimed at me, I wasn't intending to imply people should ignore YOU. Just so we're clear. Think there might be crossed wires. I was suggesting people ignore Spicy as I can't take them seriously. Is there a mute function on this forum? Could always do with one tbh. ;)