secondary fortifier feels a bit odd

[_Anise_]

the core of the mod function is "gain 1 overguard for every 100 damage dealt to enemy overguard" this does not change at all between ranks

the scaling factor is "unranked you deal 3x and max rank you deal 8x to overguard " which imo feels odd, you could easily run rank 1 of this mod with no downsides just forma and scale the base damage of your weapon up, with a rank 1 and a tenet detron overguard is not giving me any issue whatsoever and the amount of overguard I gain in total and cap does not change with ranks of the arcane so it kinda makes ranking this arcane feel underwhelming?

also I am not sure how the overguard cap works in combination with the overguard cap of say dante in your group? shouldn't the two caps combine? I tried it a few days ago and seemed like it was limiting me at the lower of the caps but I am not sure?

[Gaxxian]

Some of the new arcanes are bad af. Idk how they designed them in first place tbh

[Tiltskillet]

29 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

I tried it a few days ago and seemed like it was limiting me at the lower of the caps but I am not sure?

I don't have the arcane, but that should have been fixed with the patch yesterday:  Fixed the Secondary Fortifier Arcane overwriting existing Overguard values if they are over the Arcane’s 15k cap.

[_Anise_]

10 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

Some of the new arcanes are bad af. Idk how they designed them in first place tbh

I really liked the idea of playing with overguard but didn't realize how fast it fell off and a 15,000 cap is nothing! its gone in a heartbeat, the main place I found use for it was on stealth frames because you can built it up easily and maintain it for cc immunity and as an extra damage buffer

  

3 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Fixed the Secondary Fortifier Arcane overwriting existing Overguard values if they are over the Arcane’s 15k cap.

do we know if they stack now? or does it just take the higher of the two?

Edited June 20 by _Anise_

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

do we know if they stack now?

It turns out I do have one of them from Ascension. 

With Dante, they don't stack in the way you probably mean.  Fortifier only stacks with Dante's ability overguard until it gets to 15000.   After that it stops contributing.  But I confirmed it doesn't interfere with  Dante's ability cap if the latter is higher than 15000.

 

 

[Hypertion]

idk, i slapped it on my Cyanex and its wrecking more than before while also giving a high overguard

[_Anise_]

13 minutes ago, Hypertion said:

idk, i slapped it on my Cyanex and its wrecking more than before while also giving a high overguard

one thing I wondered is does it work with overkill? like can you hit 15000 overguard from one enemy if you deal enough damage? if you can then I disregard what I said before.

[Hypertion]

18 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

one thing I wondered is does it work with overkill? like can you hit 15000 overguard from one enemy if you deal enough damage? if you can then I disregard what I said before.

considering the Cyanex is a auto fire aoe homing pistol that doesnt do nearly that much damage in the first place per hit, i have no clue. the wording seems to imply its limited to the Overguard hp of the enemy.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2024-06-20 at 9:19 PM, Gaxxian said:

Some of the new arcanes are bad af. Idk how they designed them in first place tbh

I think they're pretty good.

Fortifier for example, I slapped it on my Epitaph (primer), and if I ever as much as chip an Eximus with the explosion I'm now invulnerable for about 20 seconds (Heat proc constantly draining Overguard with ~250% status duration). Bugged Jade Light Eximus? Don't even scratch me.

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I think they're pretty good.

Fortifier for example, I slapped it on my Epitaph (primer), and if I ever as much as chip an Eximus with the explosion I'm now invulnerable for about 20 seconds (Heat proc constantly draining Overguard with ~250% status duration). Bugged Jade Light Eximus? Don't even scratch me.

Oh, that's bloody brilliant.  I assume you've got it unranked, haha.

[trst]

Consider that players have more or less complained about overguard, for multiple reasons, since it was added. Seems DE is just killing two birds with one stone in giving all frames access to overguard while also giving others ways to trivialize it even more.

If you don't have use for the extra damage then you're peobably not the audience DE intended it for.

[Gaxxian]

hace 7 horas, Traumtulpe dijo:

I think they're pretty good.

Fortifier for example, I slapped it on my Epitaph (primer), and if I ever as much as chip an Eximus with the explosion I'm now invulnerable for about 20 seconds (Heat proc constantly draining Overguard with ~250% status duration). Bugged Jade Light Eximus? Don't even scratch me.

Some <-- Key word

Look at the new Secondary Surge. There is SO MANY prerrequisites to be able to reach that x8 (1600 remaining energy, so you need Arcane Battery too, so you need 3334 armor too... so a frame able to reach at least 600 energy and +3334 armor... GL!), and then you need to use an ability (remember, the buff takes into account the remaining energy, not your max) and then its just for a single shot from your secondary. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be fired for being so out ot touch with the game he/she is working for.

 

Edited June 22 by Gaxxian

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

Some <-- Key word

Look at the new Secondary Surge. There is SO MANY prerrequisites to be able to reach that x8 (1600 remaining energy, so you need Arcane Battery too, so you need 3334 armor too... so a frame able to reach at least 600 energy and +3334 armor... GL!), and then you need to use an ability (remember, the buff takes into account the remaining energy, not your max) and then its just for a single shot from your secondary. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be fired for being so out ot touch with the game he/she is working for.

 

That's not quite how it works. You could, for example, have a slow firing secondary on Volt Prime, modding him for both 175% efficiency and Primed Flow. Now you need 7.5 energy to get the max bonus (you can stack it up to 8x by casting multiple times, twice in this case). The ability we'll cast is Shock, which can be cast while reloading and shooting. A pistol that you might consider is the Tenet Plinx for it's alt fire.

You *can* use this Arcane, with specific weapons. And 8x damage (which might bypass attenuation) is big enough to bother in those cases.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

While the Arcane is sufficient unranked, it's ranks allow for faster Overguard stripping and thus also gaining it. It's not at all necessary until you reach ridiculous enemy levels.

That said, I found the Arcane to be very useful on majority of my builds. The additional safety net can prevent surprise one shots, especially on frames that don't have shields or OG by default, and it also offers status immunity, which is pretty handy sometimes.

When paired with a AoE or a chaining weapon, you will retain Overguard nearly constantly while further trivialising Eximus enemies.

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

Look at the new Secondary Surge. There is SO MANY prerrequisites to be able to reach that x8 (1600 remaining energy, so you need Arcane Battery too, so you need 3334 armor too... so a frame able to reach at least 600 energy and +3334 armor... GL!), and then you need to use an ability (remember, the buff takes into account the remaining energy, not your max) and then its just for a single shot from your secondary. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be fired for being so out ot touch with the game he/she is working for.

It's a total damage bonus.  So for one thing, it's hardly necessary to reach 8x.

[Malurth]

23 hours ago, trst said:

Consider that players have more or less complained about overguard, for multiple reasons, since it was added. Seems DE is just killing two birds with one stone in giving all frames access to overguard while also giving others ways to trivialize it even more.

technically all frames already had access to on-demand overguard as part of the archgun changes. you get 2k on any frame for equipping one now

[-ShadowRadiance-]

I have it on my tenet cycron. Maxed out. (Magnetic corrosive heat) 

It -deletes- overguard in 0.1 seconds and goes nomnom giving it to me.

Never takin it off lmao.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

19 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

Some <-- Key word

Look at the new Secondary Surge. There is SO MANY prerrequisites to be able to reach that x8 (1600 remaining energy, so you need Arcane Battery too, so you need 3334 armor too... so a frame able to reach at least 600 energy and +3334 armor... GL!), and then you need to use an ability (remember, the buff takes into account the remaining energy, not your max) and then its just for a single shot from your secondary. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be fired for being so out ot touch with the game he/she is working for.

 

*waves in chroma*

[Traumtulpe]

3 hours ago, Malurth said:

technically all frames already had access to on-demand overguard as part of the archgun changes. you get 2k on any frame for equipping one now

The only practical use this has is to make Revenant (and maybe invisibility frames) immune to energy drain.