Why is XAKU not considered the S+ tier frame, that sits above all others.

[RichardKam]

2024/9/13 AM12点00分 , Xycelium 说:

That's actually sorta interesting... I wonder if other types of invisible effects are the same, such as Skiajati's Invisible Finisher effect or Ghost's Shade. I assume it would be the same though.

What I found most interesting was that, it has to be a conscious, deliberate decision to disable turrets when Xaku is invisible.

Loki, Ivara, Octavia, invisibility has absolutely no effect on their abilities. But Xaku, someone decided invisibility should specifically stop the turrets.

I mean, why? What is the rationale? Who made the decision? Does anyone know this?

[XaoGarrent]

The reason why is because Xaku just has so much competition.

Regardless of whether you build your tier lists on a relative or absolute standard, Xaku ends up sharing the top tiers with dozens of other frames at this point.

I think the problem is that he's just not that thrilling to most players, despite his power, so some players make tier lists that undervalue him a little. Just because they're not thinking about him much.

This isn't late 2010s Warframe where there was a handful of super powerful frames and nobody else could compete. Even frames like Vauban bring a kit with some less powerful but ultimately functional and comparable features, and that's to say nothing of living in a world with newer frames with powerful and extremely well designed kits like Kullervo, Dante and Jade, who do completely different things but are still comparable in power.

People now have lots of viable choices, and so there are many other powerful options people can gravitate towards *instead* of Xaku. Just by virtue of a larger number, less people focus on him when making tier lists.

On 2024-09-05 at 3:44 PM, TARINunit9 said:

God Tier is about more than just raw power. It also has to be really really easy to use, a badly skewed effort:reward ratio

Xaku has to refresh his armor strip beacons periodically, position himself properly to maximize his turret numbers, mind his health and energy to maintain his various timers, and take care to press the attack or pull back to lure the enemy as needed

Saryn presses 1 then presses 4. Saryn wins

Saryn's high tier status is currently more about her ability to armor strip the whole map and buff gun damage through the roof. Also, the various niche mechanical weapon synergies. Her 1 > 4 is mostly to spread spores and doesn't really do much to kill once you're past normal starchart.

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

Saryn's high tier status is currently more about her ability to armor strip the whole map and buff gun damage through the roof. Also, the various niche mechanical weapon synergies. Her 1 > 4 is mostly to spread spores and doesn't really do much to kill once you're past normal starchart.

Again, her numbers alone would make her a high-tier, but the minimal effort required to reach those numbers is what pushes her over to God Tier

[XaoGarrent]

11 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Again, her numbers alone would make her a high-tier, but the minimal effort required to reach those numbers is what pushes her over to God Tier

She's really not that special anymore. Kullervo is the current king of big numbers and can be optimized similarly, just for different types of builds and weapons, Dante has the most narrow margin between the bottom and top end of their performance, much more narrow than Saryn, and lots of other frames do weapons platform things while usually bringing something else unique to the table.

[TARINunit9]

12 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

She's really not that special anymore. Kullervo is the current king of big numbers and can be optimized similarly, just for different types of builds and weapons, Dante has the most narrow margin between the bottom and top end of their performance, much more narrow than Saryn, and lots of other frames do weapons platform things while usually bringing something else unique to the table.

For the third time, you're really not talking about what I'm talking about

[Xycelium]

3 hours ago, RichardKam said:

What I found most interesting was that, it has to be a conscious, deliberate decision to disable turrets when Xaku is invisible.

Loki, Ivara, Octavia, invisibility has absolutely no effect on their abilities. But Xaku, someone decided invisibility should specifically stop the turrets.

I mean, why? What is the rationale? Who made the decision? Does anyone know this?

My only guess may be that either the Void Replicas are tied to Xaku's detection in the sense that they won't activate if Xaku cannot be detected by other enemies directly, or it could be something along the lines of attempting to prevent any pseudo-AFK strats where one sits in place within invisibility while performing damage consistently with no direct input.

That's the best I could imagine as any form of explanation.

[WERElektro]

yo.... I love Xaku. Could even say I main em by now.

I am definitely not playing warfame as much as I used to - so maybe I am just playing them "wrong" - But Xaku feels far more squishy than other Warframes. So maybe that's why?
Really need to watch my shields and so... otherwise my Xaku drops dead.

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, Xycelium said:

I am. I do not understand why you seem to keep assuming I don't for some reason. I use it because it's a general label, rooted in both grammar and history. You use it because grammar, which is great. So again, neither of us are using it wrong. :)

Then you wouldnt be upset about what people call Xaku.

15 hours ago, Xycelium said:

All of this to just not understand Xaku is outstanding. Xaku is one individual, not 3 in one. They are composed of 3 individuals. which is not the same. And DE has confirmed of what pronouns they use, which is they/them, and what they are, which is non-binary.

This is what exactly I highlighted earlier as an issue, where for some reason, anytime a character is outside or even challenges the gender binary, there's always a group of people debating and trying to 'refute' the literal word of the creators to say that 'no, they actually aren't this because yadda yadda'. I'm sorry buddy, but I just don't care at this point.

But the frame is 3 in one, that is the whole point. It is a frame made of 3 broken, dead, destroyed frames. And how you try to claim 3 individuals making up one isnt the same as "3 in one" is absurd. Like do you even read what you write before deciding to post it? The pronouns is also not what the frame uses. Now you are into the whole active choice thing, which isnt the case here. Since as stated, they is about multi-form, not some identity.

But Xaku doesnt challenge any gender binary, since it isnt what the word is used for with the frame. A non-binary person for instance, or one that decides to use "they" for some other reason is still only one person inhabiting a single body. Xaku is effectively 3 distinct physical individuals stitched together as a working unit. We have no way of telling what anyone of them prefers to be refered to, we dont know how many fully intact somatic consciousnesses or even partial somatic echos are still inside that frame out of the three.

Hence why it refers to the multi form and nothing else.

[Xycelium]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Then you wouldnt be upset about what people call Xaku.

I never was upset, I was confused. I feel like that's a natural reaction to Warframes being misidentified, which again, has happened even before Xaku. Once again, if you wanna miss my point about treating other identities fairly, then so be it.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But

You didn't read what I typed out correctly, so let me spell it out.

Xaku is composed AKA made of 3 individuals. Yet, Xaku is not 3 individuals existing at once within Xaku. Because Xaku is the composite of all of those 3 combined into one. So, they aren't literally 3 individuals, they are still one. Okay?

Also, you are still putting way too much effort to refute what the developers have confirmed for the SINGLE playable non-binary character in the game. That's crazy.

[zThulsaDoomz]

16 hours ago, XaoGarrent said:

Saryn's high tier status is currently more about her ability to armor strip the whole map and buff gun damage through the roof. Also, the various niche mechanical weapon synergies. Her 1 > 4 is mostly to spread spores and doesn't really do much to kill once you're past normal starchart.

Not entirely true.  Misama doesn't scale well at all, but Spores literally can scale almost infinitely.  The rest I agree with

[vixenpixel]

10 hours ago, WERElektro said:

yo.... I love Xaku. Could even say I main em by now.

I am definitely not playing warfame as much as I used to - so maybe I am just playing them "wrong" - But Xaku feels far more squishy than other Warframes. So maybe that's why?
Really need to watch my shields and so... otherwise my Xaku drops dead.

Evasion does have the best synergy with shield gate in the game but no synergy with damage reduction at all. So catalyzing shields is a must.

[XaoGarrent]

26 minutes ago, zThulsaDoomz said:

Not entirely true.  Misama doesn't scale well at all, but Spores literally can scale almost infinitely.  The rest I agree with

Spores is soft capped by the base value. Eventually the scaling becomes so slow that it'll never reach the output of your guns.

16 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

For the third time, you're really not talking about what I'm talking about

Yes I am. Gaslighting wont change your wrong statements into right statements.

[sunderthefirmament]

2 minutes ago, vixenpixel said:

Evasion does have the best synergy with shield gate in the game but no synergy with damage reduction at all. So catalyzing shields is a must.

I get by with Brief Respite, Augur Reach, Blind Rage, zero efficiency mods, and a Rakta Dark Dagger.  I don't think Catalyzing Shields is necessary, especially not when Xaku has ways of disarming enemies and making them switch teams.

[vixenpixel]

26 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I get by with Brief Respite, Augur Reach, Blind Rage, zero efficiency mods, and a Rakta Dark Dagger.  I don't think Catalyzing Shields is necessary, especially not when Xaku has ways of disarming enemies and making them switch teams.

 I suppose that's an alternative to catalyzing shield. In either case it is survival by shield gating.

Edited Saturday at 09:15 PM by vixenpixel

[PrideB4TheFall]

Looks like someone needs approval for their choices.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

Yes I am. Gaslighting wont change your wrong statements into right statements.

Gaslighting nothing. I'm not talking about Saryn's numbers. I'm talking about her EFFORT

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, Xycelium said:

I never was upset, I was confused. I feel like that's a natural reaction to Warframes being misidentified, which again, has happened even before Xaku. Once again, if you wanna miss my point about treating other identities fairly, then so be it.

So you keep using that word. Which means you dont really get it and are still stuck in new social norm ideas and not looking at what you are supposed to look at, the multi-form physical, which is all it is about with Xaku.

18 hours ago, Xycelium said:

You didn't read what I typed out correctly, so let me spell it out.

Xaku is composed AKA made of 3 individuals. Yet, Xaku is not 3 individuals existing at once within Xaku. Because Xaku is the composite of all of those 3 combined into one. So, they aren't literally 3 individuals, they are still one. Okay?

Also, you are still putting way too much effort to refute what the developers have confirmed for the SINGLE playable non-binary character in the game. That's crazy.

But it is 3 individuals exsisting at once within Xaku. Even its lore covers that by specifically saying "together, they", aswell as talking about the sum of the whole in comparison to the parts. Implying it is 3 working as one. So it is all about a construct made of 3 individuals that are still there, working as a group in a singularity. Part of the lore also refers to "its".