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[DE]Rebecca

Warframe Ability Changes: Nova

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But the main reason why it's such a pain in the &#! to play with a Nova is the fact that it's no fun. Why? Because even if you set off the prime, it still feels like its she did all the work. A-Drop is a one hit nuke with a less ridiculous radius. Yes, it may be OP damage wise, but at least it's not sucking the fun out of the game for others constantly.

 

Thats a very subjective view, that might be your opinion and I'll let you that, because we have too many nova-fanboys running around here, shouting "NOVA NERF GTFO". (I mean nerfing her was so long overdue, but that happens if you listen to the community)

 

But AMD is still the most OP damage skill in the game even if you need an IQ over 20 to use it right. Its a one-hit-killer smartbomb just like MP is, with even greater damage potential, just as you said. And if you take a look at those "nerfs", you will see that nova will still be "a pain in the &#! to play with".

 

This game has a general problem with all its radial, insta-hitting no-escape skills. No aim and a minimum of tactics needed, just jump into the mass and set it off to kill everything in a 40 meter radius.

 

The problem is not only Novas, the energy system is horrible, most of the skills are horribly balanced, they trivialize the gameplay too much. AMD does so by just cleaning out a certain area in one hit, MP does by cleaning out nearly everything around you in lower level areas.

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That doesn't seem to fix the problem at all.

 

Sounds like they're not really nerfing her at all.  The ability is still far too much in one; it's CC and damage, and both are far too effective.  If it's going to stay an all-in-one, the ability needs to be far less effective.  Given the slow is affected by power strength mods despite its base decrease I doubt anything will change.

 

Why does DE think reducing effectiveness at earlier mod levels will change anything?  No one uses unleveled mprime.

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Molecular Prime:

 

- On cast, no longer instantly affects all enemies in a radius, now grows out from Novas casting position with a new visual effect. This is affected by Duration mods.

 

- Explosive radius of primed enemies has been brought in (6,7,8,10 meters per mod rank). This is closer to other explosive weapons in the game. This is affected by range mods.

 

- Duration now scales with level but has been brought in line with other power durations (10,15,20,30 seconds per mod rank). This is affected by Duration mods.

 

- Slow-motion effect on enemies now scale with level (.75,.7,.6,.5 percent of normal speed) This is affected by Strength mods, but will have a cap on how slow you can make your enemies overall.

 

- Primed explosions are now offset slightly for performance reasons (creating tons of ragdolls in same frame can cause visible hitches).  

 

 

1)

The cascade effect is interesting, but the speed of it is going to be important in the chain explosion balance, too fast it won't make any noticable difference to the current set up, too slow enemies will simply move out of the vicinity.

 

2)

The explosion radius is still massive, when multiplied by the number of primed targets, but I take it that this is going to work in conjunction with the cascade effect? By the look of it the cascade is going to have to be slower in moving outwards from the cast point, or the explosion radius reduced further than 10m given that the slow at 0.5% will still cause clustering and the problem of Nova Chain exploding half the map will remain. 

 

This one is going to take some balancing, the idea is sound, but the implementation; well, we'll have to see how it goes in the game

 

3)

Duration nerf, good, but 30 seconds, that's still high, very high depending on what speed the prime effect takes place at.

 

4)

Do you mean 25%, 30%, 40% 50% debuff to speed? Cap, at what lvl? This worries me in conjunction with the speed of the cascade radiating out and the explosion radius of 10m basic. It has every potential to be the same as it is now, get the balance between these parts wrong, or put the cap too high, you'll still have a Nova chain exploding everything. Nova's speed debuff shouldn't be more than 50%, that IMO is a big mistake, and it's going to create more problems when a Nuke frame is a better CC and debuffer than the CC frames, especially when her base duration is 30 seconds.

 

That's longer than Vauban's Vortex. You're creating a new problem right here, without fixing the old one in any way, you're making her a better CC frame than one of the best CC frames in the game!

 

That's crazy, Think of a Nova running round and popping multiple MPs to slow waves and hit them with debuffs of 75% (hypothetically) and damage buffs of 200% This is the potential problem that is now being created.

 

Edit:

 

Why do you (as devs) have this need to stick every type of power into MP? Please answer this. As I can't quite grasp why MP still exists as a "do it all" power, when she already has AMD for AoE damage, while Null star could do with stagger additions, and yet MP has..

 

Damage buff

Damage and speed debuff

AoE damage explosion

AoE radial power

No target limit or target in use cap

 

Is MP some sacred cow that needs to cover all types of power from CC to utility to damage?

Edited by (PS4)billy-d-squid
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Sounds like they're not really nerfing her at all.  The ability is still far too much in one; it's CC and damage, and both are far too effective.  If it's going to stay an all-in-one, the ability needs to be far less effective.  Given the slow is affected by power strength mods despite its base decrease I doubt anything will change.

 

Why does DE think reducing effectiveness at earlier mod levels will change anything?  No one uses unleveled mprime.

 

It does sound like nothing significant has been done to rectify the problem with Nova, but I think this is a case where we need to see the ability change in action before deeming it ineffective.

 

In regards to people using unranked ability mods: Considering the amount of datamining they were able to do during the 1 yr anniversary post, Id really be interested to see some data on which mods are prioritized for leveling up amongst the general public.  Id agree with you on your speculation about unranked m prime, but it would be interesting to know for certain.

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Shes not already in line, I personally dont use her because i feel she is broken. This seems like a good compromise to making her a better well rounded frame rather then just a kill stealer frame.

 

Oh please. Anyone who cries "kill stealer" is a kill hoarder. I only hear two things about M. Prime:

 

1. Grumbling and whining about it being used at all.

2. Desperate pleas for it to be spammed.

 

I think she was fine the way she was. The spreading effect adds an extra interesting dimension and since she is ostensibly based on physics I can understand that. Guess I will have to wait and play her to see whether she is worth playing anymore. However I am surprised that her "balancing" is only a change to one ability. That doesn't seem like balance to me.

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Sounds like they're not really nerfing her at all.  The ability is still far too much in one; it's CC and damage, and both are far too effective.  If it's going to stay an all-in-one, the ability needs to be far less effective.  Given the slow is affected by power strength mods despite its base decrease I doubt anything will change.

 

Why does DE think reducing effectiveness at earlier mod levels will change anything?  No one uses unleveled mprime.

Yeah they are effectively buffing her, especially for high levels where stuff doesn't die instantly. Even if they cap the slow at 75% it will be great CC  with 30 seconds base duration (longest in the game).  

And at normal levels everything will still insta-die in chain explosions - 10m is still huge radius, none of the issues get solved.

And it seem  the damage will snowball even more than before if they dont do all the explosions in the same frame but consecutively.

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I'm not sure what to say about these changes. It'd be interesting to see Novas built as a CC character and people will start to care about duration on her but I'm quite unsure to what degree the delayed primes would have on Nova's capability to wipe an entire map.

 

Suppose it's just a wait and see.

 

P.S. Please bring back Pull v2.

Edited by Liacu

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IDK the radius effect will be nice if the AI will behave. Just like undertow on Hydroid mobs will just stand around and do nothing at the edge of it. Adding in a duration to some of the abilities seems stupid to me. It'll still be really cheap and I can just run to different areas and continue to nuke. Meh so the range at which the chain booms is nerfed a bit. Not a big concern to me. Nova stops being useful in most missions when the enemies hit 50.

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and still the didn't remove or reduce the slow effect.  This may make it easier for performance but that's all.

 

they didn't mention the damage bonus did they took it out?

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Nova's speed debuff shouldn't be more than 50%, that IMO is a big mistake, and it's going to create more problems when a Nuke frame is a better CC and debuffer than the CC frames, especially when her base duration is 30 seconds.

 

 

I think you've hit the point. They would rather her be CC. I don't think the Devs want a one trick wonder "Nuke" frame.

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For fucks sake remove the slowness effect. CC has nothing to do with nova.

i agree
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Nothing too drastic, while maintaining her power but slightly less then what it was.... She's still OP, but with no slowed down enemies Nova can be hit more, because of her low shield and health she can easily be killed if not careful and if the enemy is too strong the timer will run out before Nova could kill a enemy for a chain reaction. And because Nova has to be more closer to the enemy to use Molecular Prime, she will probably be hit more, and it will also stunt how many people she can kill in a chain reaction.

 

Not a bad change, like I said nothing drastic but you will easily see the effects if you play Nova like you normally do. Not bad DE, not bad. She was nerfed, but she still remains her place as a high tier Warframe.

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I think you've hit the point. They would rather her be CC. I don't think the Devs want a one trick wonder "Nuke" frame.

 

Except you already have, Nyx, Banshee, Vauban and arguably Rhino spamming stomp for CC. 

 

What they did is create a CC frame with the ability to drop AMD on a slowed mob (who will barely move) with a potential damage of over 1 million. That's not a CC frame at all. She's potentially as broken as she was before, probably more so now given that they're increasing the damage and speed debuff, but leaving the biggest mobile AoE nuke power in the game intact!

 

The problem that devs don't seem to grasp is that CC and utility frames shouldn't deal as much damage as DPS/ DoT frames. And DoT and DPS frames shouldn't be able to CC/ utility as well as their counter parts. Nova can, and still does as by the looks of it, AMD is still there and they're actually improving the debuff effect on MP

 

This is my big issue with MP, I really think they have no idea what they want it to exist as currently. 

 

CC and utility, or utility and damage. They just crammed everything in, that's why you'll never see AMD in game until you start to hit lvl 60+, even then it's rare, MP is way easier to spam. I've done t3 survivals with and without Novas, and not once have I seen a Nova use AMD, even at lvl 60

Edited by (PS4)billy-d-squid
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Why do you (as devs) have this need to stick every type of power into MP? Please answer this. As I can't quite grasp why MP still exists as a "do it all" power, when she already has AMD for AoE damage, while Null star could do with stagger additions, and yet MP has..

 

Damage buff

Damage and speed debuff

AoE damage explosion

AoE radial power

No target limit or target in use cap

 

Is MP some sacred cow that needs to cover all types of power from CC to utility to damage?

*cough* Rhino Stomp *cough*

Meet the second sacred cow of Warframe.

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IMO, Nova's biggest problem is not that MPrime's damage output is absurd, it's that it's absurd AND easily executed.  I really enjoy when this game allows you to do big damage, but requires additional precision or nuance to get the most use out of it.  Examples of this would be Volt's Electric Shield, Banshee's Sonar, or Vauban's Bastille.  All of these abilities force you to do something different during play to make the most of them.  In addition, using these abilities in conjunction actually complement each other.  MPrime does the ridiculous damage, but without the nuance, making it a cheap answer that completely overshadows any of those previously listed options, instead of complementing them.

 

I don't envy the dev's position on balancing this one.

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*cough* Rhino Stomp *cough*

Meet the second sacred cow of Warframe.

 

rhino has no damage buff, way shorter duration and less power than a single MP explosion.

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*cough* Rhino Stomp *cough*

Meet the second sacred cow of Warframe.

 

*cough* Rhino Stomp *cough*

Meet the second sacred cow of Warframe.

rhino stomp is not the same, it doesnt have an added damage buff and it does have a power in use mechanism.

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The cascade effect is going to cause problems with the snare.

 

You set off MP, enemies closeish to you are affected, a teammate shoots them, they die. MP continues to expand, debuffing enemies out of range, and they slowly move towards you. In the meantime less enemies are spawning as the debuffed enemies are alive, and they're not getting to you in any reasonable sort of time, (35% movement with just Intensify?) almost 3x as long to get there.

 

We already sorta have this when enemies are affected outside of the chain radius, but the chainability (lolnotawordbutyouknowwhatImean) of MP is going to be greatly reduced by the cascade (assume that's the point), resulting in a lot more 'stranded' groups of enemies.

 

At least the duration change will only have them stranded for ~12 seconds, but its still a fairly large reduction in enemy availability.

 

The end result is that survivals will have less enemies to kill, meaning less oxygen. Defenses will go slower. And everyone will hate Nova, for a lot more valid reason than 'She makes me feel useless' which anyone with a good gun can do.

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Seems like great changes. Can we get anti-matter drop nerfed to 150-200% at max rank please? Doing 10-20k anti-matters with a low level weapon with horrible mods and no potato(tetra) is silly.

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My suggestion: Remove slow and keep it instant application. Or, more in line with the theme of the frame, have the animation be like a supernova:

@ 0:55

If it had rapid expansion where the range was based on duration, like Slash Dash or Rhino Charge, I feel like it might be able to work while also producing a cool effect!

Edited by RedLightning

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