Suspicious Shipments - Troops On Steroids?

[Tograk]

But you know in real life nobody is equal.

[Casardis]

*sigh* Guys, it's not just skill involved in getting through these alerts. You are assuming that everyone has access to the same mods at the same ranks as you.

This.

Before you make any assumptions about what I'll say, I solo-ed relatively well the alert with Saryn, going melee-only with Scoliac for the most part while using my powers. I'm mastery rank 15 with most weapons in the game, most mods, maxed damage mods like Serration. I honestly don't have much trouble completing "challenges" like this, and even less with a full team.

Even so, I believe we shouldn't put our bars so low when it comes to accepting what exactly is a good design of "challenge" and "difficulty," especially with the state of Melee 2.0 with certain weapons, which requires you to go head on against enemies (you can easily avoid the Corpus projectiles with things like Coiling Viper, but good luck trying to do that with Crushing Ruin). But that's not the only point.

Whether it pushes us to try differently than Rambo shouldn't be the only factor to conclude "this is good challenge and the game should be like that." One has to take into consideration that not everyone have potato gears and really powerful weapons/mods in their arsenal. Making things unrelentingly powerful when the player doesn't have the compensations for that yet (mods, weapons, the right Warframe, solo vs full-team), that's not fair and is not definite quality of "challenge" that we should seek in a game of quality.

This may sound like arse-kissing right now, but notionphil made a great topic of things that DE could do to actually give a SENSE of challenge, not FORCE it upon us in such an unthoughtful way as "increase damage for everything and their mother" : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/238581-forget-better-ai-we-need-better-dumb-enemies/

Just quickly take this for example. Latest alert was on Earth, in the middle of the way to progression. I saw people in mastery rank 0 when they reach Fossa on Venus; most players reaching Earth are new with possibly not many credits to spend and many mods to make them powerful/strong enough to take damage. Their Warframe is certainly not potato'ed or maxed rank at this point either. How are they, as new players, supposed to go through that mission normally? How are they going to resist a Charger swipe that takes off 400 shields and 300 health in a single swipe if their Warframe is a low level Mag or Loki?

This game isn't Dark Souls and isn't built to simulate the same kind of challenge that comes from trial and error, and so it shouldn't have such concept of "difficulty" with one hit kills or high damage across the entire board. However, most importantly, the veterans like us, who have trouble finding challenge in this game now, shouldn't accept the slightest stimuli of "challenge" as an actual, legitimate one that DE should continue.

Also, DE's decision to place the alert node in Mariana was simply a bad choice, especially since they should have learned from the Interception/Nightmare mode fiasco.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Casardis

[ShadowCore67]

Yeah this is actually the first time warframe has angered me in a while lol

Edited May 30, 2014 by ShadowCore67

[the1Blind]

High damage, normal HP enemies: exactly what I always wanted.

[R34LM]

This.

Before you make any assumptions about what I'll say, I easily solo-ed the alert with Saryn, going melee-only for the most part and using my powers. I'm mastery rank 15 with most weapons in the game, most mods, maxed damage mods like Serration. I do not have much trouble completing silly "challenges."

Even so, I believe we shouldn't put our bars so low when it comes to accepting what exactly is a good design of "challenge" and "difficulty," especially with the state of Melee 2.0 with certain weapons (you can easily avoid the Corpus projectiles with things like Coiling Viper, but good luck trying to do that with Crushing Ruin).

Whether it pushes us to try differently than Rambo shouldn't be the only factor to conclude "this is good challenge and the game should be like that." One has to take into consideration that not everyone have potato gears and really powerful weapons/mods in their arsenal. Making things unrelentingly powerful when the player doesn't have the compensations for that yet (mods, weapons, the right Warframe, solo vs full-team), that's not fair and is not definite quality of "challenge" that we should seek in a game of quality.

This may sound like arse-kissing right now, but notionphil made a great topic of things that DE could do to actually give a SENSE of challenge, not FORCE it upon us in such an unthoughtful way as "increase damage for everything and their mother" : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/238581-forget-better-ai-we-need-better-dumb-enemies/

 

Just quickly take this for example. Latest alert was on Earth, in the middle of the way to progression. I saw people in mastery rank 0 when they reach Fossa on Venus; most players reaching Earth are new with possibly not many credits to spend and many mods to make them powerful/strong enough to take damage. Their Warframe is certainly not potato'ed or maxed rank at this point either. How are they, as new players, supposed to go through that mission normally? How are they going to resist a Charger swipe that takes off 400 shields and 300 health in a single swipe if their Warframe is a low level Mag or Loki?

 

This game isn't Dark Souls and isn't built to simulate the same kind of challenge that comes from trial and error, and so it shouldn't have such concept of "difficulty" with one hit kills, and we, veterans who have trouble finding challenge in this game now, shouldn't accept the slightest stimuli of "challenge" as an actual, legitimate one that DE should continue.

 

Also, DE's decision to place the alert node in Mariana was simply a bad choice.

Very respectible :)

[Ziegrif]

They weren't immune to the Penta so they weren't a problem.

[rushari]

Finally some challenge that force you to do things(!) instead of some shooting exercise on the way to exit.

[Naphiro]

Valkyr with 1k+ armor didn't do S#&$ to them.

 

Life strike +rage could not keep up with that mob and those MOAs will knock you around.

 

Had to rely on Hysteria and my Soma.

[Muminidas]

DE's attempt to make events harder? Nahhh. 

[Tograk]

DE's attempt to make events harder? Nahhh. 

 

Maybe they did that by accident :D But I like accidents like that.

[Casardis]

This just occurred to me. In the last devstream, they said they wanted to increase enemy lethality for their design of difficulty.

 

If those alerts and their damage increase was their idea of "lethality," then yes, it is lethal. Was it thought out and is it a good design of "challenge but fun" in the bigger scope? No, I don't think it accomplished that correctly.

 

Players, especially veterans, please don't set your bar too low for what "quality and fun challenge" is.

 

DE, please, PLEASE revise what your idea of lethal challenge is. What you did there is basically what the Elite Lancers used to do when they were first introduced, and you ended up changing that because you knew it wasn't a good design to make them so powerful and unbearable. You'll be repeating the same thing again.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Casardis

[Katakuna]

I was surprised when I ran into a group of fifty mobs behind a door that utterly trashed my Loki before I could blink, but I didn't hate their damage buff.  Made playing the alert solo marginally more interesting than it would have been without.

[MechNexus]

I actually quite enjoyed it. Just pace yourself and don't be afraid to fall back to a door and pick off enemies one by one.

[OcelotVampire]

I think I saw a toxic simbol under a green moa's name. I think either it was cause I did toxic damage to them or they do toxic damage now? If its the latter, then I'm bringing antitoxin next mission to help ease the pain. It was mostly the green moas that were killing me fast.

[Aggh]

Didn't notice, was too busy spamming shield polarize and watching everything die :|

Edited May 30, 2014 by Aggh

[Casardis]

I think I saw a toxic simbol under a green moa's name. I think either it was cause I did toxic damage to them or they do toxic damage now? If its the latter, then I'm bringing antitoxin next mission to help ease the pain. It was mostly the green moas that were killing me fast.

 

There were Infested in the missions at times too. They were probably Toxin-proc by a Toxic Ancient.

[Braken]

This just occurred to me. In the last devstream, they said they wanted to increase enemy lethality for their design of difficulty.

 

If those alerts and their damage increase was their idea of "lethality," then yes, it is lethal. Was it thought out and is it a good design of "challenge but fun" in the bigger scope? No, I don't think it accomplished that correctly.

 

Players, especially veterans, please don't set your bar too low for what "quality and fun challenge" is.

 

DE, please, PLEASE revise what your idea of lethal challenge is. What you did there is basically what the Elite Lancers used to do when they were first introduced, and you ended up changing that because you knew it wasn't a good design to make them so powerful and unbearable. You'll be repeating the same thing again.

You should probably start a new thread in one of the suggestion forums with what you've said in this thread. It'll stand out more there.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Braken

[Zarozian]

As i played the event, i noticed that the enemy in the alert hits considerably harder. First i thought, maybe my mind is playing tricks, but then came Corpus Techie and shot me 3-5 times and my shields were gone. 810 of it to be exact and half of my HP. The Technician was lvl 22. And he was not the only one who did that stunt.

Ran a corpus on mission on pluto. Technician was level 28. And it took him longer to kill me. 10-15 shots.

Used a Volt in the event. I asked my clanmates about them and they noticed the same thing. The event ones hit harder. He even took his rhino with him.

Anyone else noticed it?

[Bladereap3r]

Soloing....tried the 3rd alert with Ash..spamming his #2 and Ult...one revive but it was intense thru the mission but made it through.

My Mag didnt make it thru it nor my Rhino. This is a tough one for the newer players for sure.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Bladereap3r

[MDRLOz]

I have been waiting for this thread.

 

I grouped the first alert and soloed the next two. SOO MUCH FUN!

 

The corpus techs with "super supras" killed me a couple of times. Had to be careful and take my time using cover. Still the mobs died in one to two bullets and punch through could kill hordes... but sometimes a corpus tech would flank you and then it was a mad dive for cover!

 

This is the most alive a warframe map has felt for me in quite some time.

 

Please give us more of this DE. It was really a small difficulty increase but it was MUCH APPRECIATED!

 

More of the same please.

 

 

Also even though this is an exterminate mission it can actually spawn mobs above the kill cap. This can be quite cool but a bit hit and miss. The "door events" seem to spawn bonus mobs. However if you get one in a lift room it cant spawn behind you and is wasted. If you get lucky and get a big room with a locked door then so many bonus mobs can appear. I killed the quota and still had about 30 more mobs to fight! Please add this kind of thing in more often DE it meant I could not rest and was hounded as one of the last mobs was another sneaky super supra tech but I saw him first!

 

Hats off to you DE I loved it.

 

(Sad I wont get to see anymore this weekend, grrr relatives)

Edited May 30, 2014 by MDRLOz

[NogginMasher]

I went in with a four man team, brought mag prime and ran into the harvester. Shield polarize murdered everything quickly, but my 1k shields also dropped quickly under sustained fire. Poor oberon in my group was downed half a dozen times throughout the mission.

But seriously, bring mag with shield polarize. Worked like a champ.

Edited May 30, 2014 by NogginMasher

[Casardis]

You should probably start a new thread in one of the suggestion forums with what you've said in this thread. It'll stand out more there.

 

Maybe, but personally, I'm tired of doing this for now (made a lot of threads with criticism/suggestion), and we already have several topics (including this one) that's still ongoing. I don't see the point too much until they officially make this the new "difficulty," which I hope they never do. I'll also be honest that it's tiring sometimes when dealing with people who think this difficulty should be considered acceptable as a "good challenge."

 

I can't blame them for thinking like that either because most of those people haven't had much form of "challenge" in this game for long, but the issue I, personally, think is present is that we easily become swayed away as to what a real and fun challenge actually is. As a result, even if I made a topic about that, I'll probably just get dissed on because those players, like some above my post right now, actually had fun in it.

 

Anyway, I feel like I've expressed myself enough. If you want to take on the flag and make a topic about it with the points I've brought, I don't mind and would even applaud you. I just don't think I'll do that myself anytime soon.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Casardis

[Pixydis]

Yeah well, if you stand in direct line of fire ...what do we call it... face-rolling, even Rhino won't save you.

Ran a pug with 3 Rhinos, they all dropped like flies rushing head-first into the room full of walkers...

[DJ_Redwire]

In any case, I love the buff and kind of wish all exterminate missions were this tough. 

[Fomiru]

Yeah the enemies are doing an idiotic amount of damage, really.

 

It felt like a game of like weaving between shots.

 

I hope they find another way to make the game harder because insane enemy damage isnt the way to do it.