Ammo Nerf Protest

[TX10000]

And i have friends who stopped playing warframe simply because they are bored. Players comes and goes, but the game has to stay as good as possible and as balanced as possible.

 

If DE giving out super OP weapons just to attract players, that will be the real downfall of Warframe

Then why doesn't it stay good? - exactly my point.

[JacobLittle]

All i can say is I AGREE WITH DE !

 

Now players can't mindlessy spam explosives anymore and have to make every shot count making those weapons actually require some kind of skill on theyr use rather than just go around "LOLOLOL, EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE, SO EASY TO WIN AND MAKE KILLS".

 

People complaining at this are probably the same people that go around spamming Ults to every enemy they see and don't want any skill involved challenge but just play the game in the cheapest way possible.

 

Get your gear and start using some skill (if you like to "lololol spam" you can always add an ammo mutation anyway).

 

Oh and FYI, i use Castanas as secondary weapon but i agree anyway with DE about the nerf.

You can still spams explosions with Attica or Dread/Thunderbolt and as fast as an assault rifle with Attica and a wide area with Mirage.

 

You can still spam explosions with primary launchers in many cases and Castanas. And Stug did not get a nerf to Mirages can still go bloody crazy with them.

 

The senseless explosion spam is still there...With or w/o Mirage but especially with her and Nova as well.

Edited August 14, 2014 by JacobLittle

[HellHeart]

You can still spams explosions with Attica or Dread/Thunderbolt and as fast as an assault rifle with Attica and a wide area with Mirage.

 

You can still spam explosions with primary launchers in many cases and Castanas. And Stug did not get a nerf to Mirages can still go bloody crazy with them.

 

The senseless explosion spam is still there...With or w/o Mirage but especially with her and Nova as well.

oh, but they dont deal around 9k+ explotion damage per shot. Then again, maybe stug.. Well, balance passes will pass dont worry!

Edited August 14, 2014 by HellHeart

[Wrathinside]

that is not what i meant, i meant there are multiple ways to handling different situations. I felt Explosives were going to get a nerf sooner or later, as personally it was &!$$ing me off that there would be 1-3 players spamming angstrum and taking all the kills, leaving only a few here and there because they didnt interest them to kill them too. For example, for Sechura on Public, i always ran into a vauban with angstrum or ogris, and they would vortex the pod and just blast them to pieces, where the others didnt have to do a single thing. That is not what Warframe is about, having one player be able to do the entire thing while the others drink a cup of coffee or watch tv in the meantime. Warframe is a CO-OP game with Solo mode, which thanks to some people, i often play more solo as with others. The players that are upset over the Explosive nerfs are for me either A) those that stand in one place and blast away the map, or B) really dont understand how to mix weapons and warframe skills to be multipurpose. I play loki prime now as my main warframe, and i never had any issues. When things get a big mobby, i go invis and hack them away with my sword or glaive prime, use marelok to take down the larger enemies, and latron prime as support. But its possible to do the exact same with Frost, or Nekros, just keep moving and always switch around. so in recap, what i meant about planning and skill etc, is that should warframe really be a game where you can just stand in one spot and blast the map away without doing anything other than clicking the mouse and watching tv? (defense referense) I think not.

Well... I'll start by addressing the scapegoat - Letter. He explicitly promoted ammo pods. How will you get cash fast enough to afford it, while saving for whatever Dojo\Warfarm\Muttbrow you need? Since I doubt that everyone is mastery 16-17 with millions of cash with nothing to invest on or anything.

Same Sechura - out of 10 runs that I do, 9 are afk 5-wavers. Because somebody can... how to put it... One-trick pony it? I don't really care how, vaubaning, AoEing, meleeing or warframing - it doesn't require full team. I just sit and get my 22k(or well, less since SC got overthrown)

If you are hyperactive, if you can't cope with it... Don't. Play solo, play with friends. I guess when people have NO way of achieving a goal in public - they cry and go private. Now when people have easy way of achieving goal in public - they also go private. But if you put it in such general perspective - it's not explosives that's the culprit - it's the game. The game that is NOT TACTICAL.

Go on, remove Absorb, Radial Disarm, Blessing, Molecular Prime, Chaos, Desecrate, Snow Globe, Iron Skin, Vortex, AMD, Shadows... Because that's what... I dunno, makes the game easier! So much easier! Just like 540 Ogris ammo! Just like soloing the missions where you can't help, but want to personally kill everything to get full share of xp or thrill.

Maybe the game is going step by step towards "improvement". Trinity and Nova nerfs were an improvement, this I can sourly agree with. Maybe community will re-evaluate their usage of Blast weapons. Maybe it's for the best. Firing a rocket that matters, instead of lazily making sure you don't break the charge...

I don't want to back on my words, nobody does. I bet even the OP. But if something has been proven in this thread - it's that AoE weapons will still be OP, if you just have the ways to achieve it, which is team, alternative weapons, pods, Nekros. Some people, like me or Letter or other "objectors" against the protest - they can take it. But some, like OP - feel that this 20 ammo will simply make them not enjoy their weapons anymore. They won't have the resources or the group to do what they could do. And in their favor I still think that having at least a bit higher max ammo would not change weather for veterans, but also wouldn't hurt players, who don't ask for much and don't expect much.

[Edgarhighman]

Angstrum gets more ammo!

 

I mean, there's plenty of stuff to look forward to. It's just unfortunate that this weapon happened to have gotten nerfed. However, it might be good balance when you consider (properly modded) the damage potential vastly outranks pretty much everything else minus maybe like 7 weapons at most.

angstrum does not have more ammo. It was reduced 180? ammo. angstrum now lasts 1 large or 3 tiny tiny rooms on a regular mission and 2 mobs in void (highly modded) its not worthy to use anymore but I loved it so much.

[Niryco]

I really enjoyed playing this game back in U7.5, but since then my fun went down the hill...

I recognize that having 500+ ammo in my penta, even having 200+ of ogris is way too much, but reducing it to below 100 simply defeats the whole idea of having it, or even of reaching the higher mastery ranks.

And so I call for a >>>>>PROTEST<<<<< of not playing this game.

Unless we stop playing this game and point to our motivation, the game will depend on how the DE's frontmen wake up from their bed.

So do complete the upcoming operations why not, but do not play (don't even log for dayly rewards) beyond that.

Post a message to that effect into the regional chat and do not discuss (nobody discusses with us neither).

I am the 1st of ANTI AMMO NERF PROTESTERS and I want my 100+ penta ammo belt back!!!!!

 

Reducing the ammo to below 100 does not defeat the idea of having it, instead it defeats the idea of using it against common or usual foes. The whole point of these weapons is directed towards purely AOE usage to maximize your damage or to kill Exmius or heavies with a single or a few rounds.

 

If you are spamming/wasting ammo on singular common mobs, then you are not using this weapon as intended. Also this allows other weapons to be put back on the radar atleast now they serve the purpose to take out common/singular or effectively average to normal mobs without being overshadowed by a weapon that can defeat every single enemy without discretion.

 

Unless you are telling me that all weapons should have the equal power, even bullet weapons, to be able to combat all mob types from simple lights to extremely heavy enemies where they are all equal, thus removing the significance of getting any slow weapons like the penta for mastery rank even more compared to this nerf since faster weapons would massacre all enemies even better.

 

Therefore I suggest that the whole nerf be look upon as a way to grant every weapon a proper purpose with the least affects to every single one of them. I agree it is painful, but there were alot more nerfs (damage fall off for shotguns) that hurt those weapons even more than this ammo nerf would ever do. Thank you.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Jacate

[PlayGooYa]

You can still spams explosions with Attica or Dread/Thunderbolt and as fast as an assault rifle with Attica and a wide area with Mirage.

 

You can still spam explosions with primary launchers in many cases and Castanas. And Stug did not get a nerf to Mirages can still go bloody crazy with them.

 

The senseless explosion spam is still there...With or w/o Mirage but especially with her and Nova as well.

 

Yeah but that's just Mirage being incredibly stupid as usual.

[JohnProdman]

oh, but they dont deal around 9k+ explotion damage per shot. Then again, maybe stug.. Well, balance passes will pass dont worry!

Lol, my penta grenades hit 20k+ with an ammo mutation in the last slot. Works fine.

[TX10000]

Reducing the ammo to below 100 does not defeat the idea of having it, instead it defeats the idea of using it against common or usual foes. The whole point of these weapons is directed towards purely AOE usage to maximize your damage or to kill Exmius or heavies with a single or a few rounds.

 

If you are spamming/wasting ammo on singular common mobs, then you are not using this weapon as intended. Also this allows other weapons to be put back on the radar atleast now they serve the purpose to take out common/singular or effectively average to normal mobs without being overshadowed by a weapon that can defeat every single enemy without discretion.

 

Unless you are telling me that all weapons should have the equal power, even bullet weapons, to be able to combat all mob types from simple lights to extremely heavy enemies where they are all equal, thus removing the significance of getting any slow weapons like the penta for mastery rank even more compared to this nerf since faster weapons would massacre all enemies even better.

 

Therefore I suggest that the whole nerf be look upon as a way to grant every weapon a proper purpose with the least affects to every single one of them. I agree it is painful, but there were alot more nerfs (damage fall off for shotguns) that hurt those weapons even more than this ammo nerf would ever do. Thank you.

The moment you consider taking something else, that same moment that idea (of obtaining them) is defeated. Because now all other weps are gonna be a better option than the launcher.

Edited August 14, 2014 by TX10000

[Keiiken]

Nobody discussed with us?

 

I have no words. Have you seen the PSA regarding the sniper rifle/explosive weapon tweaks? They did listen to our feedback/concerns about the affected weapons (and a few more), and actually went to changed that (Attica, Torid, Flux Rifle etc.) so these weapons would be more useful. 

 

Agreed.

I guess nobody saw all forum threads for months with players complaining that those weapons had too much ammo and it was even mentioned in several dev streams, there was nothing to left discuss the community spoke and the devs did what they thought was best.

More adjustments may come if they think they overreacted but the point is they acted in good faith that it was in the best interest of the game and a sizable portion of the player base.

[Niryco]

The moment you consider taking something else, that same moment that idea (of obtaining them) is defeated. Because now all other weps are gonna be a better option than the launcher.

Really all weapons are a better OPTIONS?! BRO YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?!

 

Tell me would you rather a Vulkar or a penta?! You tell me which you a pick? What is the point of even using snipers in this game if you want to argue that explosive weapons are now so useless with the ammo nerf.

 

Get it into your head that these nerfs hardly do anything to justify a stand that snipers even become more unique or that the buffs even make them more special compared to your OP AND OVERLY THE TOP WEAPON OF AN EXPLOSIVE WEAPONS!

 

Majority of the snipers, even with crit damage will 100% deal lesser damage than any explosive weapon or even bows outright, all snipers will require precision to aim and kill mobs while your explosive weapons can spam your rounds randomly into crowds and kill up to 10 or 20 enemies. All combat ranges against foes always favours explosive or even normal rifles and even Bows But not snipers.

 

But what is the point of snipers? High damage + multiple enemies engagement with 72 ammo? But still it losses out to explosive weapons, SO WHY THE *)!(@)#!(#)@!( WOULD YOU WANT A FREAKING SNIPER WHEN AN EXPLOSIVE WEAPON IS BETTER IN ANY AND ALL SITUATIONS?! YOU CAN'T EVEN JUSTIFY THE RANGED ENCOUNTERS BECAUSE THAT IS LIKE A 1/10 OCCURENCE WHILE THE 9 OTHERS ARE ALL IN YOUR ADVANTAGE! so don't go around saying that there is no weapons worse than launchers.

 

Not all other weapons are better than launchers. You know what is better than launchers? Bullet weapons to fight your enemy swarm because it is more ammo efficient, you self entitled launcher owners. I am so largely irritated how snipers and how some other bullet weapons never receive active or changes to make them more special for the role they are supposed to perform.

 

How about shotguns?! WOULD YOU WANT A TIGIRIS?! HUH?! PUNK YOU THINK THAT LAUNCHERS HAVE THE SHORTEST END OF THE DAMN STICK YOU ARE JUST DISILLUSIONING YOURSELF! OK! THERE ARE ALOT MORE NERFS SUCH AS THE DAMAGE DROP OFF THAT MADE ONE WHOLE WEAPON TYPE BECOME USELESS OVERNIGHT! YOU CLEARLY DON'T EVEN CARE FOR THOSE WEAPONS AND THUS YOUR LAUNCHER IS IMMEDIATELY BETTER THAN THESE BROKEN OPTIONS AND IF YOU EVEN DENY THESE CASES YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU ARE LYING TO YOURSELF OF WHERE THE REAL ISSUES ARE AT!

 

LET ME ADD : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290137-recent-buff-enough-to-bring-back-snipers/ GO AND SEE HOW SNIPERS DON'T EVEN MEAN NUT THEN OR NOW, AND STILL HAVE ACCURACY PROBLEMS WITH THEIR SCOPES. SO GET YOUR HEAD INTO THE ISSUE YOUR WEAPONS WILL BE WAY BETTER THAN 2 CATEGORIES OF WEAPONS AND YOU SHOULD FACE THE FACTS THESE WEAPONS NEED MORE ATTENTION THAN YOUR LAUNCHERS!

Edited August 14, 2014 by Jacate

[Rekkou]

Then why doesn't it stay good? - exactly my point.

 

Because your point is a game is only good if you can be OP in it.

[Rekkou]

The moment you consider taking something else, that same moment that idea (of obtaining them) is defeated. Because now all other weps are gonna be a better option than the launcher.

 

And one weapon being better than every other weapons is a better idea?

[Niryco]

The moment you consider taking something else, that same moment that idea (of obtaining them) is defeated. Because now all other weps are gonna be a better option than the launcher.

Also let me add that as a lover of sniper weapons, the fact that all this still doesn't make snipers any more special since Update 7 ( When i first began) but worse when your stupid launchers were introduced, I have been in this agonized position longer than you and have already given up on hoping it can change. Your launchers will always over power all snipers, stupid launchers ruins everything in almost every darn game.

[JacobLittle]

Yeah but that's just Mirage being incredibly stupid as usual.

Sounds like your PC doesn't like her :)

[Lorche]

Launchers are supposed to be used in large mobs, and before this update, it only has self-damage as it's cons.

They hit like truck, very ammo efficient, little drawbacks.

If you want to be honest, why would people want to use other weapon if explosives can carry them trough the whole game?

That, is no good. Especially for an online game like this.

 

Besides, my question still stand.

Did you try to actually use the said launchers weapons after this hotfix, to see whether the ammo is enough or not?

Or you just go to forums and do this protest without even see how things in the field?

 

For the record, I've done field test in the game with Penta and Angstrum, together (they share the same ammo pool, so imagine the ammo). I don't even use ammo box/amo mutation, yet the ammo cut is not affecting the weapon usage much, as sniper ammo drops a lot. Ammo cut and the ammo type change to Sniper Ammo is neccesary for launchers to give them actual cons. And while I personally thing the max ammo number is a little too low (and it can be raised up just a little bit), it's still on reasonable level.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Lorche

[JacobLittle]

Launchers are supposed to be used in large mobs, and before this update, it only has self-damage as it's cons.

They hit like truck, very ammo efficient, little drawbacks.

If you want to be honest, why would people want to use other weapon if explosives can carry them trough the whole game?

That, is no good. Especially for an online game like this.

 

Besides, my question still stand.

Did you try to actually use the said launchers weapons after this hotfix, to see whether the ammo is enough or not?

Or you just go to forums and do this protest without even see how things in the field?

 

For the record, I've done field test in the game with Penta and Angstrum, together (they share the same ammo pool, so imagine the ammo). I don't even use ammo box/amo mutation, yet the ammo cut is not affecting the weapon usage much, as sniper ammo drops a lot. Ammo cut and the ammo type change to Sniper Ammo is neccesary for launchers to give them actual cons. And while I personally thing the max ammo number is a little too low (and it can be raised up just a little bit), it's still on reasonable level.

The sniper ammo does not drop so often so people would end up running dry on Angstrum ammo and be dry for a while, in endless missions not for long if at all, but for continuous missions, it could be long. That pistol would be better off using shotgun ammo pool separate from sniper and bows since it shoots of many rockets like a shogun of course it is silly for a pistol to use sniper or shotgun fuel.

 

Defense simply isn't a good testing ground or any endless mission where you are stuck in one place or swarmed by countless numbers.

[ByJove]

Clearly what was needed after the intudustion of the truly awful new ui was a way to piss of more of the games playerbase.  

 

Imo this is another of those updates that presumes everyone is a well established player in a well established clan with access to all the best mods.  Also imo, what these weapons needed to balance them was their own subclass(like shotguns) and own ammo drops not a nerf that makes them useless to a good portion of the playerbase.

 

Maybe all the asshats could actually contribute to this and suggest something to use instead of a penta(etc).  It needs to be viable group or solo, non prime and not locked behind clan research and rare mods. 

 

And for the rcord I would say ammo of 50-75 and back to rifle rather than sniper.

[LukeAura]

The moment you consider taking something else, that same moment that idea (of obtaining them) is defeated. Because now all other weps are gonna be a better option than the launcher.

The moment you consider taking something else is the moment that the idea of a launcher is balanced to the idea of a sniper or automatic rifle. It means it has drawbacks and benefits.

[TX10000]

The moment you consider taking something else is the moment that the idea of a launcher is balanced to the idea of a sniper or automatic rifle. It means it has drawbacks and benefits.

And being balanced is the very point of the whole thing. No need to get penta any more, all you need is braton-mk1.

[NeverJeffer]

The moment you consider taking something else is the moment that the idea of a launcher is balanced to the idea of a sniper or automatic rifle. It means it has drawbacks and benefits.

Why do you care about what weapon someone else uses???

[Aikurisu]

Alright, so my initial problem with the launcher ammo change was that it felt like an overkill nerf.  On the surface, DE has a track record of not explaining themselves very well when they make drastic changes like this.  Case in point, there were similar outcries toward changes that involved Frost, Trinity and Nova a little while ago and many players were not thrilled about them.  (Myself included...)

 

Yet when folks eventually find ways to adapt, the issues fade into the background.  DE gets to sweep the hate mail under the rug and more often than not folks move on.  I'm no fortune teller, but I wouldn't be surprised if this latest outcry is forgotten in a month.

 

Yeah, I get it.  I understand the sentiment that it almost feels like DE punishes players when they put so much effort into getting their gear just right, then all of a sudden when changes like this occur you kinda wish you spent your time working on something else.  You could even argue that DE likes to target anything that's exceptional, which, regretfully, fosters distrust.  I mean, when the next item on the market arrives and is considered OP, should we just ignore it and focus on playing with underwhelming gear with the knowledge that the only changes they'll get are buffs?  As the old saying goes it's better to not have high expectations so when something nice happens you'll be pleasantly surprised, yet it's also that kind of thinking that, sadly, makes players less likely to enjoy having fun and instead be cautious with their options.

 

So I guess you could say I'm on the fence about this one.  I'm honestly more concerned for my friends who are affected by the changes and will not take them well.  I don't like seeing my friends angry and I hate trying to explain things to them when that should be DE's job instead so we wouldn't have situations like this where folks are threatening to quit over things that aren't that terrible once they're thought through.  But hey, it could be worse.  Fortunately DE is one of those few game developers left that still make an effort to keep good PR with their fans, which is a lot more than I can say for almost every other bloody developer out there.

[R3DBelmont456]

TBH all I have been seeing is many players disrespecting the roles that lauchers as Uber weapons that they are meant to serve, a disrespect to players enjoying said launchers as something they like to do in Warframe, and a DISRESPECT to those who use said launchers to help out new players and those leveling really hard to level weapons and frames because IDK about you, but XP in Dark sectors doesn't start rollin in until I get to at least passed 20 waves and over... TBH Since the dark sector PvP changes, lately the Community has become even more toxic than the LoL community, and the fact that this game is PvE mostly just makes that fact an even sadder truth. Why should we have to stoop down to your level in order to fully enjoy this game, why can't I NOT have fun the way I used to, with my OP roxets... In all honesty I think as of late DE has become more and more anti-player with some of the balancing decisions they've been making, and HELL if DIFFICULTY is really an issue, then why have they not added a Difficulty setting for each planet already.... why is NIGHTMARE the only hard mode... and why is it only available randomly? Why is END game the only other try hard mode... and WHY nerf weapons to handicap players when they don't want it...

Edited August 14, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[JohnProdman]

And being balanced is the very point of the whole thing. No need to get penta any more, all you need is braton-mk1.

Are you a troll? Is this entire thread flamebait?

 

I really think so after that last comment.

[immolator1001]

Ha. Did you even bother to play the game after the changes? Ran ODD no problem with ammo, even when I forgot to go down and pick up more every round.