Ammo Nerf Protest

[R3DBelmont456]

band aid is ammo mutation?

if yes: like u said, this mod is a must have if u want to play this weapons in other game modes ( that tis mods doesn´t work IS a big mistake atm)

to the amprex, it is the direct opposite of launchers.For ext its okay, but for def or surv u need the mutation imo

Imo u just have to mod the weapon right for the situation and it will work(and again yes, that ammo mutation has to be fixed)

Tell me then how a 90-10 balance is a viable solution... and not everyone has ammo mutators yet... nor are they expected to easily get one, plus I have said it once and I will say it again, if AMMO MUTATOR mods are the end all and be all solution to the ammo scarcity and nerfs, then by all means let DE nerf the AMMO to all guns and have them all use ammo mutators, problem solved...

Edited August 14, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[sekushiiandee]

band aid is ammo mutation?

if yes: like u said, this mod is a must have if u want to play this weapons in other game modes ( that tis mods doesn´t work IS a big mistake atm)

to the amprex, it is the direct opposite of launchers.For ext its okay, but for def or surv u need the mutation imo

Imo u just have to mod the weapon right for the situation and it will work(and again yes, that ammo mutation has to be fixed)

^

well.....let me put it this way.....it just freaking sucks that we have to switch out a mod now......

 

as i have said earlier....one mod makes a different....and now that mod is replaced with ammo mut

 

find i understand the arguments but it just plain sucks that we have to sacrifice damage for it

[R3DBelmont456]

^

well.....let me put it this way.....it just freaking sucks that we have to switch out a mod now......

 

as i have said earlier....one mod makes a different....and now that mod is replaced with ammo mut

 

find i understand the arguments but it just plain sucks that we have to sacrifice damage for it

and that's another thing that people don't seem to get... the ammo nerf makes it an indirect triple nerf... cause now you need ammo mods to keep yourself from wasting ammo, which affects DPS... which affects the gun's usefulness as well.

[PlayGooYa]

^it goes back to the argument about dps that is floating around

 

i am one of the individuals that care about dps because i go for a lot of end game play.....switching out one mod can make a huge different whether it be status chance or a few hundred damage points (considering multishot damage increase)

 

one mod always makes a difference and one mod always matters

 

You're saying that the decisions you actually make are influenced by ammo constraints. That it is significant.

That's not a problem. You had to do that anyway.

 

Exterminate/Capture? Leave off the Mutation mod.

Want to use it defense? Rely more on sidearms and teammates.

You don't like doing that? Well that's what Mutation was supposed to enable in the first place, not band-aid.

 

A person I met in a pub made a very excellent point about secondaries. He uses them early to conserve ammo for later. A tactic I had never even considered.

Hell, it even makes using Speed Holster actually appealing to use.

 

 

Tell me then how a 90-10 balance is a viable solution... and not everyone has ammo mutators yet... nor are they expected to easily get one, plus I have said it once and I will say it again, if AMMO MUTATOR mods are the end all and be all solution to the ammo scarcity and nerfs, then by all means let DE nerf the AMMO to all guns and have them all use ammo mutators, problem solved...

 

Mutation mods were amongst the earliest drops that I've ever found. If you can get to Mastery Level to actually have a Penta/Ogris, chances are, you know what is and what it looks like.

 

I'm going to point to the Soma again, because Soma. I had Rifle Mutation long before I ever attained Rank 4. And even if I didn't, I at least had seen Shotgun and Sniper varieties and knew what they were for.

 

And you're right, they're not-be-all-end-all. People run ammo inefficient hogs with planning or fire discipline too. Or plan around the mission they're doing.

Edited August 14, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[LukeAura]

^

so are you okay with other powerful weapons having a higher ammo limit than the launchers? i do not believe that powerful and underpowered belongs in the conversation of balance because there are many strong, strong weapons that are clearly overpowered

Specific weapons would help in this discussion. 

Latron/Boltor Prime? I could see them taking a reduction in ammo. Prime weapons are technically the elite's gear, it is understandable that you're not supposed to waste shots with them. And I normally use those two weapons as well, I would be totally fine bringing them around if they had tighter ammo restrictions.

Soma? it's strong, but it does guzzle ammo pretty heavily, especially if trying to create a more interesting build with it than just damage focused. It may or may not need rebalancing, but reducing its ammo reserve isn't the way to go. 

In a case by case basis some overpowered weapons do, some don't. Launchers it made more sense to have as limited ammo weapons with high power. 

I'm not saying I'm against future adjustments or small ones in certain cases, I still think Penta needs a little more ammo. But until Snipers are properly buffed, Shotgun falloff is looked at, and enemies become a little more engaging, for the future health of the game and its players until these changes are made, which may take a while, this ammo count is probably necessary.

[R3DBelmont456]

You're saying that the decisions you actually make are influenced by ammo constraints. That it is significant.

That's not a problem. You had to do that anyway.

 

Exterminate/Capture? Leave off the Mutation mod.

Want to use it defense? Rely more on sidearms and teammates.

 

A person I met in a pub made a very excellent point about secondaries. He uses them early to conserve ammo for later. A tactic I had never even considered.

Hell, it even makes using Speed Holster actually appealing to use.

Yes it is a Problem because the game is now forcing you to play a certain way instead of choosing your own... "because your way sucks", that is not fun... that is slavery!

[Vernoc]

1. Players who care about DPS exist and have just in any right to build the way they want to do as much as you want to do.

 

2. The only thing stopping anyone from modding things towards their enemies is the fact that the base damage is Blast, and this is unchangeable. Even then that goes on the assumption the player has all the mods required to do so. What's a good element to counter Ferrite Armor? Corrosive. What is Corrosive made of? Electricity and Toxin. What is left after Corrosive for elements? Fire and Ice. What does that create? Blast damage. What is the main issue of using explosives against heavy units? Blast damage.

 

3. I personally can use ammunition mutation or ammunition restores, but not every single player has a collection of mods as large as mine or several million credits to expend on crafting ammunition restores. Newer players exist in this game. Please do not forget that fact, as many seem to have.

 

4. Name some weapons that are limited to exterminate or capture, and perhaps I will take this statement for more than blowing steam right out your arse.

1. sure, but arguing with dps is then not that usefull cause u can´t compare in warframe weapons with it

2.why u should put more in then corrosive in?corrosive and blast is enaugh, or did i missunderstand u?

if people miss the mods to mod the weapon for what it´s needed then they have a new target( i don´t want to say content)

e.g my ogris deals 5k blast and 16k corrosive, i don´t think heavy units can resits it , and if they can my ogris has a proc build (40% status) which delet armor or blow them down

3. i don´t forgett, but then u have to think how easy it is to get the credit´s ( battelpay and or sechura) and the newest player (rank 6 and below) have no access to the launchers

 

4. Karak ( cause dmg is to low to play other missions longer)

    Amprex without ammo mutation is nothing to play long in survival or def

    bratons

    kernos

    dera

    lato

    aklato

    twinvipers

[PlayGooYa]

Yes it is a Problem because the game is now forcing you to play a certain way instead of choosing your own... "because your way sucks", that is not fun... that is slavery!

 

Games have always done that according to the developer's vision.

If you're describing your leisure time as slavery, then maybe you're not keeping a proper sense of proportion here.

 

As with LukeAura, I'm not against fine-tuning the numbers of maximum ammo cap, but when people start using the word slavery and threatening boycotts over things they were never entitled to in the first place, that is ridiculous.

Edited August 14, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[Vernoc]

Tell me then how a 90-10 balance is a viable solution... and not everyone has ammo mutators yet... nor are they expected to easily get one, plus I have said it once and I will say it again, if AMMO MUTATOR mods are the end all and be all solution to the ammo scarcity and nerfs, then by all means let DE nerf the AMMO to all guns and have them all use ammo mutators, problem solved...

that solves nothing

and if u miss it u have a new goal

get them on low survival missions isn´t that hard, that can do everyone

 

^

well.....let me put it this way.....it just freaking sucks that we have to switch out a mod now......

 

as i have said earlier....one mod makes a different....and now that mod is replaced with ammo mut

 

find i understand the arguments but it just plain sucks that we have to sacrifice damage for it

sure, it hurts,

it hurts myselfe too, but imo u only need this mods in ext/capture and so on , and for this missions u don´t need the max dmg which this weapons can deal

just today tryed a bit longer def missions without mutation and it worked well

[R3DBelmont456]

1. sure, but arguing with dps is then not that usefull cause u can´t compare in warframe weapons with it

2.why u should put more in then corrosive in?corrosive and blast is enaugh, or did i missunderstand u?

if people miss the mods to mod the weapon for what it´s needed then they have a new target( i don´t want to say content)

e.g my ogris deals 5k blast and 16k corrosive, i don´t think heavy units can resits it , and if they can my ogris has a proc build (40% status) which delet armor or blow them down

3. i don´t forgett, but then u have to think how easy it is to get the credit´s ( battelpay and or sechura) and the newest player (rank 6 and below) have no access to the launchers

 

4. Karak ( cause dmg is to low to play other missions longer)

    Amprex without ammo mutation is nothing to play long in survival or def

    bratons

    kernos

    dera

    lato

    aklato

    twinvipers

you forget that with the absurdly low crit chance rox have, then 16k dmg on proc doesn't really sound so bad because you'll rarely get in that much dmg, at most in defense missions you'll get, MAYBE, 1-3k AoE dmg assuming there's not an ancient around that makes all infested immune to Blast dmg... making your Rox even more Useless... Honestly, this game is becoming more and more of an illusion of choice and you either use what works or nothing at all Type of game, even with some weapons being minorly buffed...

[Vernoc]

Yes it is a Problem because the game is now forcing you to play a certain way instead of choosing your own... "because your way sucks", that is not fun... that is slavery!

forcing to put a singel mod in if u play specific missions  assuming u only want to play with a singel weapon

[Vernoc]

you forget that with the absurdly low crit chance rox have, then 16k dmg on proc doesn't really sound so bad because you'll rarely get in that much dmg, at most in defense missions you'll get, MAYBE, 1-3k AoE dmg assuming there's not an ancient around that makes all infested immune to Blast dmg... making your Rox even more Useless... Honestly, this game is becoming more and more of an illusion of choice and you either use what works or nothing at all Type of game, even with some weapons being minorly buffed...

totally disagree, i deal nearly all the time between 15-50k

if there is a healer i shoot at him directly and mostly still deal the same dmg

[RealPandemonium]

This is a freaking successful troll, congrats on 17 pages, OP.

[PlayGooYa]

totally disagree, i deal nearly all the time between 15-50k

if there is a healer i shoot at him directly and mostly still deal the same dmg

 

Go to Warframe Builder, kit a Penta/Ogris with elements appropriate to faction and you'll find that the damage mostly stays the same as its base numbers.

20k burst on paper doesn't fluctuate a whole lot even after you've accounted for the enemies you shoot for.

[Vernoc]

Go to Warframe Builder, kit a Penta/Ogris with elements appropriate to faction and you'll find that the damage mostly stays the same as its base numbers.

20k burst on paper doesn't fluctuate a whole lot even after you've accounted for the enemies you shoot for.

doesn´t make sense

elements make till 75%+ dmg ,headshoot make 4x if i´m not wrong, hitting the weak point gaves +dmg too

[R3DBelmont456]

forcing to put a singel mod in if u play specific missions  assuming u only want to play with a singel weapon

Playing with rocket launchers solo is now the stupidest thing you can do because sniper ammo drops are scarce and you only get 20 shots total... heck if anything this just gives rocket users more excuse to be lazy and get carried by everyone else whilst never ever using they're rocket launchers once for not wanting to waste ammo A LA halo... where I'd lug around a rocket launcher for the entire missions and never use it until I encounter heavy units or tanks and that kinda kills the purpose of having it as a primary... in fact at least in Halo I could carry 3 guns at once by constantly switching the gun out and moving foward, but in Warframe you don't have the luxury of swapping your gun out on empty... once you're out, you're forced to play like everyone else with no originality or you're out...

[PlayGooYa]

doesn´t make sense

elements make till 75%+ dmg ,headshoot make 4x if i´m not wrong, hitting the weak point gaves +dmg too

 

I'm saying that the complaints that damage falls off hard because of blast are unfounded. I actually went back and made a 15.9k damage build for Grineer w/ Mutation again. Viral+Radiation, you know the drill. And it actually does 20k against cloned flesh and alloy. It takes a penalty against standard ferrite but drops only around 0.9k from the penalty.

 

Base damage type doesn't really matter so much as what elements you put on. You can have extremely effective impact and slash guns regardless.

 

I really don't get the complaints about "mandatory mod." Even after Mutation, it's easily top-tier dps still.

 

I don't complain about Shred being a "mandatory mod" because it's a style enabler. I love punchthrough too much to ever complain about losing some single-target dps to it.

In retrospect, Mutation was always intended to enable spray-and-pray and now launchers were nerfed to bring them in-line with that vision.

Edited August 14, 2014 by PlayGooYa

[sekushiiandee]

Playing with rocket launchers solo is now the stupidest thing you can do

^

well i wouldnt say it is the stupidest thing....its just impractical now because it is require specific customizations in order to effectively use the weapon long term

 

anyone who says ammo restores....dont get me started because not everyone can constantly make ammo restores...and if you wanna play the ammo restore game....i would like to know how much a team (as a whole) uses ammo restores by the end of a 40 min or a 60 min t4 survival

^these numbers would be pretty nice before saying ammo restores are the way to go

[lordwusu]

 

"Cry me a River"

[R3DBelmont456]

^

well i wouldnt say it is the stupidest thing....its just impractical now because it is require specific customizations in order to effectively use the weapon long term

 

anyone who says ammo restores....dont get me started because not everyone can constantly make ammo restores...and if you wanna play the ammo restore game....i would like to know how much a team (as a whole) uses ammo restores by the end of a 40 min or a 60 min t4 survival

^these numbers would be pretty nice before saying ammo restores are the way to go

^this and wasting team ammo restores on solo missions is kinda wasteful too...

Edited August 14, 2014 by R3DBelmont456

[NeverJeffer]

The way launchers used to work actually did make Warframe pretty unique and appealing.  At first you would see one and say "Why would I use anything else?"  Then you would see some other weapons with; electric chain damage, death lazers, giant cubes, massive nail guns, and go "Oh that's why."  The point being launchers were one super cool weapon among many.  Now launchers are a lot tamer and much more like they are in every other game.  Now Warframe is a lot more bland than a game about future space ninjas is supposed to be.

[DarthRevan84]

I really enjoyed playing this game back in U7.5, but since then my fun went down the hill...

I recognize that having 500+ ammo in my penta, even having 200+ of ogris is way too much, but reducing it to below 100 simply defeats the whole idea of having it, or even of reaching the higher mastery ranks.

And so I call for a >>>>>PROTEST<<<<< of not playing this game.

Unless we stop playing this game and point to our motivation, the game will depend on how the DE's frontmen wake up from their bed.

So do complete the upcoming operations why not, but do not play (don't even log for dayly rewards) beyond that.

Post a message to that effect into the regional chat and do not discuss (nobody discusses with us neither).

I am the 1st of ANTI AMMO NERF PROTESTERS and I want my 100+ penta ammo belt back!!!!!

The door is right over there *points towards door* dont let it hit ya on the way out.

[R3DBelmont456]

The door is right over there *points towards door* dont let it hit ya on the way out.

"And I'll be there waiting for you and everyone else once DE REALLY goes too far... Handing out the flight tickets myself." If you're not gonna be constructive then please go away...

[sekushiiandee]

 

"Cry me a River"

^

not constructive.

[sekushiiandee]

The way launchers used to work actually did make Warframe pretty unique and appealing.  At first you would see one and say "Why would I use anything else?"  Then you would see some other weapons with; electric chain damage, death lazers, giant cubes, massive nail guns, and go "Oh that's why."  The point being launchers were one super cool weapon among many.  Now launchers are a lot tamer and much more like they are in every other game.  Now Warframe is a lot more bland than a game about future space ninjas is supposed to be.

^

but thats the thing.....most people are using templates of other games and imposing those game styles onto warframe....when it is and should not be like other games

 

 

the uniqueness of warframe is getting stripped away day by day by people who have never made video games...and only those that have played the same generic game type