Why Do People Dislike Coptering?

[SquirmyBurrito]

Reading through this thread, one of the most common replies is "I don't hate it but it looks weird". I've gotten similar responses talking to randoms about coptering while in a mission.

Now, perhaps stupid was the wrong word there. That implies personal preference. But the rest of the parkour motions we have are at least somewhat believable, whereas coptering is nonsensical at best. In the end it doesn't really matter, but I think, based on my observation of people's reactions both here and in-game, that a more directional midair animation for spin attacks would solve a lot of the complaints about coptering.

 

You know as well as I do that the people participating in this thread in addition to the few people you've talked to in game do not make up the majority of the players playing this game.

 

Being nonsensical doesn't seem to matter to this community. Remember, one of the most widely spouted lines in defense of such things by this community is 'its a game, not real life'. Another is 'we're space ninja [blah blah blah magic] it doesn't have to make sense'. I don't like that argument, but if others get to use it so do I.

[(PSN)theelix]

no. I think the main reason is because it looks stupid.

you bypass like 500% of the map with a slide spin animation...

I don't think anyone falls out of the map five times from one slide attack. 

 

Still don't understand why do you guys cry about this movement 2.0 is coming and they will fix the bugs, no more coptering then.

Because movement 2.0 is coming 

and it'd also be nice if they had our opinion and got some of our ideas so that they could be implimented. 

[AnatharsWrath]

i love and dislike coptering for these reasons

 

dislikes =

looks odd - nuff said. it looks silly at times.

 

doesnt work with all weapons - not many people like/use weapons like magistar/fragor/gram/serro because it lacks the copter ability (if they depend on coptering anywho. I use serro/orthos prime regardless of lack of super speed coptering)

 

likes =  

gives very slow frames the ability to haul &#! when really needed - ive gotten to people in the nick of time for a revive thanks to coptering many times when silly people go to far away from the group during a survival. also helps slow frames to flee from deadly areas or helps with reaching secret areas in some cases.

 

fun in certain areas - sometimes flying across the gorge in the corpus planet tilesets can be fun (especially the large ravine extract area and the multi platform one). there are many other areas  one can soar through for fast travel or just for fun.

 

all-in-all its something i can live with as it has its pros and cons. maybe someday it will disappear and maybe get a general speed buff for the frames that lack decent run/movement/wall-climbing speeds. but until then, im just gonna live with it and see it for its merits at times.

[vaugahn]

You know as well as I do that the people participating in this thread in addition to the few people you've talked to in game do not make up the majority of the players playing this game.

 

Being nonsensical doesn't seem to matter to this community. Remember, one of the most widely spouted lines in defense of such things by this community is 'its a game, not real life'. Another is 'we're space ninja [blah blah blah magic] it doesn't have to make sense'. I don't like that argument, but if others get to use it so do I.

Again, that's just my two cents on the issue. Though I'm sure you know the forums are used as a tool to measure the current attitude of the community, so a majority here is somewhat significant.

And there's a difference between something being realistic and something being believable. My futuristic ninja suit shooting electricity from its hands isn't realistic, but it's believable. The same with the parkour animations, the wallruns and flips are at least something you could believe a warframe could do. Coptering not so much. Things being realistic has absolutely no importance here, things being believable does.

[Agullimux]

Defense missions that spawn room has last enemy stuck about 120 meters from cryo. 2 copters and killed, copter back. Or walk there and waste one minute or two every wave of everybodys time with frost. Yes some people seem lazy and i see most of time myself only going to kill that last stuck enemy. As long this game is not perfectly clear off all annoying bugs, i think coptering is allowed to stay. To be honest this thread feels more hate than love and specially for wrong reasons.

edit:

Coptering makes one wave go under 25 secs. Withouth coptering it is something like minute and 20 s.

Removing coptering potentially would stop me doing  defense missions because with coptering i can do potentially 3 defense keys while non coptering is doing one.

Anyone whining getting behind because people rush and leave all precious resourse. Who want that crappy resource from alerts. I hope de makes that alerts give no EXP and resources do not drop from enemies/containers/lockers and joining mission costs 1 neural sensor 1 orokin cell and 100 plastids. Will that make you faster? No but it stops you from scavenging every freaking container room and think why that one is rushing.

Do i rush?  no enemy near -> i copter.
enemy sighted -> kill so, that slow rhino won't die.

receive hate because they feel slow?

profit.

Also, that precious exp of 50 enemies is low, not worth it, better go leveling grounds. And no point when people can't hoard exp over 30.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Agullimux

[(PSN)theelix]

You know as well as I do that the people participating in this thread in addition to the few people you've talked to in game do not make up the majority of the players playing this game.

 

Being nonsensical doesn't seem to matter to this community. Remember, one of the most widely spouted lines in defense of such things by this community is 'its a game, not real life'. Another is 'we're space ninja [blah blah blah magic] it doesn't have to make sense'. I don't like that argument, but if others get to use it so do I.

That being said, lets think of some new animations to make it make sense. Since another common few things that are said are "It's just a bug" "You gotta realize it started out as a bug" and in retaliation, "Steve said it's a feature" "Coptering is here to stay."

 

Since it's now a feature, technically a bug but let's call it a feature, what would you like it to look like in the future?

 

In my opinion and from what I think, this would be the most logical reason for how we gain speed and momentum in mid air, the animation should look like a far cry of the wall attack. Except, without actually energy consumption, we use our energy to accelerate us forward. Kinda like Dead space 3 or Bleach's Bringer light. 

 

I'm thinking right now that a lot of people don't like it because it even looks like a bug, so they don't even want to be in the same lobby with it. A lot of people, not majority, I can say with quite a bit or certainty that the majority gives zero fucks. So, if we give it an actual animation, and with this animation they could probably change the momentum issues and you not traveling light speed across the world, the minority of people who didn't like coptering will stop complaining about it being ugly, or it being/looking like a bug, the majority could keep on not caring, and the people who liked it will, in a perfect world, like it even more. Though, likely they'll be bumhurt about it not going light speed anymore and say they want old coptering back and blah... But, compared to the minority that doesn't like it, they seem much smaller. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

Again, that's just my two cents on the issue. Though I'm sure you know the forums are used as a tool to measure the current attitude of the community, so a majority here is somewhat significant.

And there's a difference between something being realistic and something being believable. My futuristic ninja suit shooting electricity from its hands isn't realistic, but it's believable. The same with the parkour animations, the wallruns and flips are at least something you could believe a warframe could do. Coptering not so much. Things being realistic has absolutely no importance here, things being believable does.

 

That's a practice I always disagreed with. The forums are a rather small sample size. Er... I don't see how being able to shoot out arcs of electricity is believable. Coptering is just as believable as being to able to shoot out electricity from my hand, or being able to create portals that I can jump through, or target selective singularities. 

 

 

That being said, lets think of some new animations to make it make sense. Since another common few things that are said are "It's just a bug" "You gotta realize it started out as a bug" and in retaliation, "Steve said it's a feature" "Coptering is here to stay."

 

Since it's now a feature, technically a bug but let's call it a feature, what would you like it to look like in the future?

 

In my opinion and from what I think, this would be the most logical reason for how we gain speed and momentum in mid air, the animation should look like a far cry of the wall attack. Except, without actually energy consumption, we use our energy to accelerate us forward. Kinda like Dead space 3 or Bleach's Bringer light. 

 

I'm thinking right now that a lot of people don't like it because it even looks like a bug, so they don't even want to be in the same lobby with it. A lot of people, not majority, I can say with quite a bit or certainty that the majority gives zero fucks. So, if we give it an actual animation, and with this animation they could probably change the momentum issues and you not traveling light speed across the world, the minority of people who didn't like coptering will stop complaining about it being ugly, or it being/looking like a bug, the majority could keep on not caring, and the people who liked it will, in a perfect world, like it even more. Though, likely they'll be bumhurt about it not going light speed anymore and say they want old coptering back and blah... But, compared to the minority that doesn't like it, they seem much smaller. 

 

I don't really want to see it changed much, especially not to something from clorox. Coptering is just the name applied to the utility portion of the maneuver. The thing still does damage to enemies, and prior to the wall attack buff it was one of the better ways to hit flying enemies while going melee only. How would DE go about changing the aerial version of the sliding spin attack so that it looks nicer? Changing it into a random energy dash-esque maneuver doesn't make a whole lot of sense. As others have pointed out, Coptering is tied to your melee weapon. 

[Snougar]

Zero issues with people doing it. 

For the most part, its only faster in a straight line. You see a lot of people overshoot and get stuck on things (I know I do sometimes xD). So over-all, its not -that- much faster at getting you to the end of a level.

Though if someone wants to rush to get to the end, they don't need to 'copter to do it.

Also Bo Prime 'copter <3

 

[TheErebus.]

DE tries to make rushing a less suitable method of gameplay

 

Reinforces the an exploit that makes you incredibly fast to rush through everything.

 

This is one of the few things I dislike about DE.

[(PSN)theelix]

That's a practice I always disagreed with. The forums are a rather small sample size. Er... I don't see how being able to shoot out arcs of electricity is believable. Coptering is just as believable as being to able to shoot out electricity from my hand, or being able to create portals that I can jump through, or target selective singularities. 

 

 

 

I don't really want to see it changed much, especially not to something from clorox. Coptering is just the name applied to the utility portion of the maneuver. The thing still does damage to enemies, and prior to the wall attack buff it was one of the better ways to hit flying enemies while going melee only. How would DE go about changing the aerial version of the sliding spin attack so that it looks nicer? Changing it into a random energy dash-esque maneuver doesn't make a whole lot of sense. As others have pointed out, Coptering is tied to your melee weapon. 

They could go about changing it by basically making it a wall attack anywhere. With better detection and animations, though I don't think the animations from wall attacking look bad on non-heavies, but their detection is terrible. They'd also have to make the range infinite, since wall attacks for what ever stupid reason just stop being effective even if you've gone right through an enemy just out of your range. 

 

I think changing it into an energy dash isn't a logic sense from it being coptering, but that's just it, it's basically a feature now, right? It should get it's own (to an extent) animation. 

 

This dash would work for just about every melee weapon and a lot better for heavies. Especially since heavies get no distance. Though, I'm not saying you should go forever with these attacks in general, so it would be logical that heavies go less distance instead of the same or more. 

 

This dash, in my opinion, would also help with the problem of hitting floating/gliding/flying enemies. 

 

Lastly, DE, does have very creative and wild, imaginitive people. I mean... The new combo for crossing snakes, the one where you float in the air for five seconds as you throw both of your swords into the ground before picking them up and jumping for a downward slash, doesn't really, to me, make any sense in the slightest... But it does look quite bad &amp;#&#33;. This dash would make a lot more sense then that. Including the fact that we have all sorts of energy-propelled attacks. Tail Wind, Slash Dash, Super Jump, Rhino Charge some others but I can't remember or have used the frame. 

 

It would probably almost look like the equivalent of a mid-air Wall attack with the Slash Dash Particles and surrounding aura. 

[JacobLittle]

Being nonsensical doesn't seem to matter to this community. Remember, one of the most widely spouted lines in defense of such things by this community is 'its a game, not real life'. Another is 'we're space ninja [blah blah blah magic] it doesn't have to make sense'. I don't like that argument, but if others get to use it so do I.

Ah yes, this logic is behind the creation of Saints Row 4. A gang in the white house running the country defies all laws of sense and logic.

 

(Should call it the purple house)

[(PSN)theelix]

DE tries to make rushing a less suitable method of gameplay

 

Reinforces the an exploit that makes you incredibly fast to rush through everything.

 

This is one of the few things I dislike about DE.

It is quite counter-intuitive. 

 

Makes T4 difficulty reinforce team work and preaches about capitalizing on each other's strengths... Yet buffs aerial slide attacking, stamps it as a feature, says it's here to say knowing that people use it to get away from the group? 

 

Logic? What are you doing here? You're not in this! *pushes logic off a cliff*

[SquirmyBurrito]

They could go about changing it by basically making it a wall attack anywhere. With better detection and animations, though I don't think the animations from wall attacking look bad on non-heavies, but their detection is terrible. They'd also have to make the range infinite, since wall attacks for what ever stupid reason just stop being effective even if you've gone right through an enemy just out of your range. 

 

I think changing it into an energy dash isn't a logic sense from it being coptering, but that's just it, it's basically a feature now, right? It should get it's own (to an extent) animation. 

 

This dash would work for just about every melee weapon and a lot better for heavies. Especially since heavies get no distance. Though, I'm not saying you should go forever with these attacks in general, so it would be logical that heavies go less distance instead of the same or more. 

 

This dash, in my opinion, would also help with the problem of hitting floating/gliding/flying enemies. 

 

Lastly, DE, does have very creative and wild, imaginitive people. I mean... The new combo for crossing snakes, the one where you float in the air for five seconds as you throw both of your swords into the ground before picking them up and jumping for a downward slash, doesn't really, to me, make any sense in the slightest... But it does look quite bad @$$. This dash would make a lot more sense then that. Including the fact that we have all sorts of energy-propelled attacks. Tail Wind, Slash Dash, Super Jump, Rhino Charge some others but I can't remember or have used the frame. 

 

It would probably almost look like the equivalent of a mid-air Wall attack with the Slash Dash Particles and surrounding aura. 

 

Whatever change they implement would have to continue to be centered around melee weapons. It would also have to retain the ability to be deconstructed and still function normally and the ability to be constructed slowly and still function (meaning the ability to press the key sequence at whatever speed you want without the function ceases). 

 

Many of the combos don't make any sense. The new ones for the tonfa that were shown off feature magically returning tonfa that doesn't make any sense.

[sandweed]

Bacause they hate fun in their space ninja game about fighting space facist clones, space capitalists, and space zombies.

[(PSN)theelix]

Whatever change they implement would have to continue to be centered around melee weapons. It would also have to retain the ability to be deconstructed and still function normally and the ability to be constructed slowly and still function (meaning the ability to press the key sequence at whatever speed you want without the function ceases). 

 

Many of the combos don't make any sense. The new ones for the tonfa that were shown off feature magically returning tonfa that doesn't make any sense.

In my head, it would function just like the aerial slide attack. You press the buttons and done, you go flying off. But this is also why I said the range has to be infinite, or at least for the duration. If you've ever recently used wall attacks, you fly off and after you stop the sword swing, you're just... Flying. You won't hurt anything you just glide. 

 

This also makes me question... Should it be a holdable thing? Meaning you have to hold one or both of the buttons to keep going, which would allow this the ability to be reused. But then, a lot more thought would have to go into it, or else you would literally be able to fly like Zephyr. It would have to either restrict vertical movement after the first activation. Meaning you can't attack up again, after you've already attacked upwards. Or, it would have to change the second animation. Almost stealing zephyr's ground slam for this idea, you can do the aerial attack in what ever direction and if you attempt to do it again, you ground slam to prevent exploitation of flying forever. 

 

The Tonfa? I did a quick search with little results. From what I'm getting, it's a dual bladed baton type weapon. 

Edited August 19, 2014 by (PS4)theelix

[Aure7]

And there's a difference between something being realistic and something being believable. My futuristic ninja suit shooting electricity from its hands isn't realistic, but it's believable. The same with the parkour animations, the wallruns and flips are at least something you could believe a warframe could do. Coptering not so much. Things being realistic has absolutely no importance here, things being believable does.

 

this this this this this this.

THIS THIS THIS "Things being realistic has absolutely no importance here, things being believable does."

This ties in really well in what I have been trying to say for so long here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119650-parkour-has-been-ignored-for-too-long-its-the-key-element-in-making-warframe-gameplay-unique-and-fresh/ It has 820 upvotes you better be interested in seeing it.

 

I also think they should make coptering a feature requiring channeling or something, maybe available for all weapons but boosted with certain mods.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Aure7

[Sunfaiz]

i like it, so what if it looks kind of weird, it feels good to do it, and it's fun

[Aure7]

 

i like it, so what if it looks kind of weird, it feels good to do it, and it's fun

 

You're playing a quite beautifully crafted video game, where all abilities are combination of awesome animations, particle effects and what not. Same applies to anything else in the game, it is all made to be this one gorgeous experience. Coptering stands out out of all of this and really, really bothers us. It's just super cringy when 3 of the squad are moving trough levels, fighting and such, while the fourth is a fat &amp;#&#33; rhino sliding on his butt and with his zorens on every single step.

[SquirmyBurrito]

You're playing a quite beautifully crafted video game, where all abilities are combination of awesome animations, particle effects and what not. Same applies to anything else in the game, it is all made to be this one gorgeous experience. Coptering stands out out of all of this and really, really bothers us. It's just super cringy when 3 of the squad are moving trough levels, fighting and such, while the fourth is a fat @$$ rhino sliding on his butt and with his zorens on every single step.

 

I disagree. I think it looks fine.

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

this this this this this this.

THIS THIS THIS "Things being realistic has absolutely no importance here, things being believable does."

This ties in really well in what I have been trying to say for so long here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119650-parkour-has-been-ignored-for-too-long-its-the-key-element-in-making-warframe-gameplay-unique-and-fresh/ It has 820 upvotes you better be interested in seeing it.

 

I also think they should make coptering a feature requiring channeling or something, maybe available for all weapons but boosted with certain mods.

there's mods for coptering already, they're called quickening, berserker, and fury.

[Arlayn]

Simple... Because they didnt like Metal Gear Rising LOL... No, but really... I never understood the reasoning. It looks totally epic to go whizzing by, and rapidly killing enemies with melee. It gives melee its purpose... sorta... Still think we need more Metal Gear Rising techniques like when you hit the melee button you can do a rush attack. The Copter is sort of a stand in for a vitally needed maneuver in the game to close the distance...(Metal Gear Rising did this perfectly) So until the day DE finally adds a close the distance technique at some point in time. The Coputer will have to suffice. It looks cool personally to me. It seems almost logical if the Tenno could spin fast enough to grant them air as they move through the air rapidly Maybe its the design of the suit reacting to air with special motions activating certain anit-gravitation techniques. Sorta like Senator Armstrong with his Nanomachines that react to physical trauma to harden, and protect.

 

Once more this is just my point of view on the matter. I really don't want the only way to close the distance removed, or modified to where it basiclly takes melee backwards. Its already bad enough we slow down when swinging, or outright stop all together, and that they didnt even apply Valkye's movement to the other melee weapons which badly need a super speed run when in melee mode... Kinda like a certain Cyborg ninja...

 

If anything in the future this is what needs to happen. TAKE OUT coptering, and put in a rapid movement when in melee mode similar to Valkyr's Hysteria movement. Meaning no slowing down, or stopping when attacking, and moving faster then normal running, or sprinting when using the sprint button in melee mode.

 

This is the reason we copter. To get around quicker, and for people like myself... close the distance in battle. Ecspecially when you foe flees.

[Darzok]

I have to say i dislike it due to the fact you are forced to use such a small choice of melee weapons if its not the Dual Fang/zoren/Ichor good luck not been left behind as they fly across the map.

 

There should be some thing done as who ever is not using the one of the above is left behind as thew others do every thing leaving you to just walk to the end unless its a basicMob/Defence

[Aure7]

I disagree. I think it looks fine.

 

 

Simple... Because they didnt like Metal Gear Rising LOL... No, but really... I never understood the reasoning. It looks totally epic to go whizzing by, and rapidly killing enemies with melee. It gives melee its purpose... sorta... Still think we need more Metal Gear Rising techniques like when you hit the melee button you can do a rush attack. The Copter is sort of a stand in for a vitally needed maneuver in the game to close the distance...(Metal Gear Rising did this perfectly) So until the day DE finally adds a close the distance technique at some point in time. The Coputer will have to suffice. It looks cool personally to me. It seems almost logical if the Tenno could spin fast enough to grant them air as they move through the air rapidly Maybe its the design of the suit reacting to air with special motions activating certain anit-gravitation techniques. Sorta like Senator Armstrong with his Nanomachines that react to physical trauma to harden, and protect.

 

Once more this is just my point of view on the matter. I really don't want the only way to close the distance removed, or modified to where it basiclly takes melee backwards. Its already bad enough we slow down when swinging, or outright stop all together, and that they didnt even apply Valkye's movement to the other melee weapons which badly need a super speed run when in melee mode... Kinda like a certain Cyborg ninja...

 

If anything in the future this is what needs to happen. TAKE OUT coptering, and put in a rapid movement when in melee mode similar to Valkyr's Hysteria movement. Meaning no slowing down, or stopping when attacking, and moving faster then normal running, or sprinting when using the sprint button in melee mode.

 

This is the reason we copter. To get around quicker, and for people like myself... close the distance in battle. Ecspecially when you foe flees.

 

I use it all the time to close a gab to the enemy that is fleeing and slice that mother@(*()&#036; in peaces just because he dared to run away. I do it all the time and I love how i looks.

 

You're missing the fact that I am talking about rapidly spamming it over and over again, every single step, every single mission, so repeatedly it irritates me.

[(PSN)theelix]

there's mods for coptering already, they're called quickening, berserker, and fury.

No.

 

I disagree. I think it looks fine.

*shrugs* It looks just strange that the guy with no abdomin can just do... That. 

 

You're playing a quite beautifully crafted video game, where all abilities are combination of awesome animations, particle effects and what not. Same applies to anything else in the game, it is all made to be this one gorgeous experience. Coptering stands out out of all of this and really, really bothers us. It's just super cringy when 3 of the squad are moving trough levels, fighting and such, while the fourth is a fat @$$ rhino sliding on his butt and with his zorens on every single step.

Bahahaha. 

 

this this this this this this.

THIS THIS THIS "Things being realistic has absolutely no importance here, things being believable does."

This ties in really well in what I have been trying to say for so long here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/119650-parkour-has-been-ignored-for-too-long-its-the-key-element-in-making-warframe-gameplay-unique-and-fresh/ It has 820 upvotes you better be interested in seeing it.

 

I also think they should make coptering a feature requiring channeling or something, maybe available for all weapons but boosted with certain mods.

I like that thread. I'm hoping it gets Neckro'd and brought to the Dev's highest attention. Those are very good ideas and I made a similar thread but, yours included all of my ideas and then some. It would be very, very nice to see these things implemented as, when we master them, the games fluidity would be just amazing. Right now, things aren't so fluid. They aren't crunchy but they aren't quite fluid. As someone brought up before, you go from just being in the air to going Mach 5 by spinning and that just ruins immersion and isn't fluid. Especially when you can see the WarFrame's legs go Sonic after that. But those ideas in that thread are wonderful. I would like you just to think about how wall attacking would fit in there. It may be the same, but if we're getting these more fluid and much more flexible options, the wall attack should be brushed up just a bit. Maybe a new animation or just a better then kick-off-go-derp that we have now. 

[Arlayn]

I use it all the time to close a gab to the enemy that is fleeing and slice that mother@(*()$ in peaces just because he dared to run away. I do it all the time and I love how i looks.

 

You're missing the fact that I am talking about rapidly spamming it over and over again, every single step, every single mission, so repeatedly it irritates me.

They attempted a fix in the past by decreasing stamina, and it was met with angery players... I was one of them :D

 

The main problem is this...

Melee needs updates

and slow down systems need tobe added.

 

Look at it this way you play as a fast warframe, and they play as rhino. Their style is rhino, and your style is some super fast sleek warframe. Your going to leave them in the dust as you murder everything. They won't be able to keep up, and they won't get any exp. Then you argue "change your warframe" WELL TOO FRIGGIN BAD. Some of us are happy with our warframes. Personally I switch between Excalibur, Volt, and Ash so I never have this issue. Just that some people prefer the heavy style over us sleeker, and more scenario controlled warframes.

 

I can understand too. Maybe they are sick of G3, maybe they are sick of Zanuka, or maybe their gear, and mods arent up to par yet to handle situations in faster warframes.

 

If the rhino has no way to keep up then we screwed them over. The only way to remedy it would be to slow down players intentional with hazardous enviroments.