Thought About Kubrow Dna Stabilizers - Making Sense Of Them

[Letter13]

It sort of dawned on me while reading  one of Yuikami's Recent Comic Strips that there is a feasible reason why we need to keep poking our Kubrows with DNA stabilizers while the Earth-living ones get along just fine.

 

Llyssa's thoughts (made a month before mine!):

My thoughts: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/285931-crazy-realizations/

 

My thoughts:

 

The concept of a DNA stabilizer is a pretty simple one... it's in the name: it stabilizes DNA. If a creature needs a DNA stabilizer it's safe to assume that it's DNA is decaying or becoming damaged. Which made me start to think what could be causing such rapid DNA degradation/damage in our Kubrows that their Earthfaring counterparts do not experience...

 

The answer is Radiation Poisoning. 

 

Of course it's not significant to kill them outright, but radiation poisoning damages the structure of DNA. It can lead to cancer and all sorts of harmful mutations (the majority of which cause death). If one could combat, prevent or treat the damage radiation causes to DNA and key molecular structures within living cells, you could effectively shrug off radiation poisoning by dosing yourself with the treatment until you are no longer exposed.

 

In our ships there are 2 likely sources of radiation exposure:

  1. Solar radiation; perhaps the ship's hull is not shielded enough to prevent damaging solar radiation from leaking in

  2. The ship's core is nuclear in nature and has sprung a leak

 

For the time being I'm assuming the second case is the most likely scenario. Why? Because the ship is sort of second-hand goods; it's used and not even refurbished. If the AI is damaged so badly, one can't help but wonder what else on the ship is damaged. Ordis may not even bring up the radiation leak because mild radiation poisoning may not even affect Tenno at all, possibly because the suit shields it or Tenno physiology (and exposure to the void) has somehow altered or prevented damaging radiation from harming us. Ordis's mainframe might also be organic in nature (organic neural circuits) and may be experiencing damage from radiation exposure as well.

 

Alternatively, Ordis may in fact be INTENTIONALLY venting radioactive air into the ship; perhaps he's trying to kill us? Or he's intentionally trying to kill our Kubrow? Ordis does have a few screws loose. Maybe he's a homicidal AI?

 

The DNA stabilizers do sort of make sense if one assumes that the inside of the ship is being exposed to damaging radiation and that our Kubrows are suffering from acute radiation poisoning.

 

 

tl;dr It's probably Ordis's fault.

 

Thoughts?

Edited September 3, 2014 by Letter13

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

BLAME ORDIS!!

[Casardis]

I thought the reason they need stabilizers is because we tampered into their DNA to do pretty much reverse-evolution. I mean we did take eggs of feral kubrows, who became what they are today hundreds of years after the fall of the Orokin, and then tamper into the DNA of said-egg to make them exactly like they were hundreds of years before.

 

Tenno technology is advanced, but I think even that can create instabilities.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Casardis

[Cleesus]

So our Kubrows have cancer? :(

[AdunSaveMe]

My thoughts;

-Kubrows are 'cloned' 

-DNA stabilizers prevent the degradation, the same degradation that affects the Grineer clones

But that doesn't explain why the first kubrow you get needs them so I dunno.

 

Perhaps they're weak to Void radiation being given off by the tenno?

Back when they were pets for the orokin, they wouldn't have been exposed to that radiation.

 

Or even, after centuries of being feral on Earth, they've become dependent on or used to something in that climate.

Without it, they degrade.

Edited September 3, 2014 by AdunSaveMe

[Llyssa]

My thoughts: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/285931-crazy-realizations/

[Letter13]

So our Kubrows have cancer? :(

Not right this moment, but keeping their DNA stabilized would actually prevent cancer from ever occurring in the first place; cancer is a mutation which occurs in a cell which causes them to start reproducing uncontrollably. If you keep stabilizing DNA, no mutation would occur.

 

The radiation exposure is killing them faster than cancer can develop (at the same time the radiation is probably destroying any cells that become cancerous, but if no DNA stabilizer is applied and they're then released into the wild--assuming they haven't received a lethal dose of radiation poisoning--they would develop cancer, their descendants would have birth defects, etc.

[Sev7n]

It makes sense.

Maybe that is why grineer are disfigured. Is cause after being cloned their dna starts to break down from coming in contact with radiation.

would explain why some of them have a strong weakness to radiation damage

 

And if cloned kubrows follow that same principle maybe the dna stabalizers act as an immunization to radiation.

[OverlordMcGeek]

How about the this process messes with their genetic stability? Where does that go?

[RejectionOfFate]

#BlameOrdis2014

[ValhaHazred]

I'm thinking it's more along the lines of them just being really screwed up by the genetic engineering process. We take a baby Feral Kubrow and cram a bunch of thousand year old genes into their DNA to pretty them up.

 

DNA is not lego, so this probably isn't very good for them.

[Executor_Aeternus]

I suspect it is because we bring them unprotected into poorly built grineer galleons into the reactor rooms while we shatter radioactive rods, bring them into areas so covered with infestation and toxic spores that the Lotus herself fears for our safety, bring them outside into the void of space itself during massive battles where they are directly subjected to the solar winds and even bring them onto the surface of Mercury itself.

I think the kubrows have far more to be worried about than Ordis causing severe radiation poisoning.

Of course, they were also genetically tampered with from birth to create something more akin to their Orokin ancestors. At first I thought they might be be vulnerable to cloning degeneration like the Grineer, but we gather an egg fresh, so I doubt that. Some degeneration probably comes from genetic tampering, the rest from the hellholes we callously drop them into as if they were also invulnerable golden age psychokinetic zombie-virus-infected interdimensional space ninjas. :l

Edited September 3, 2014 by LordGreymantle

[7.T.]

The answer is Radiation Poisoning. 

 

Of course it's not significant to kill them outright, but radiation poisoning damages the structure of DNA. It can lead to cancer and all sorts of harmful mutations (the majority of which cause death). 

   Or superpowers. Anyway, this is a interesting theory. Ordis needs a tune-up or maybe we can have a Liset buying mission with Darvo as the dealer/car salesman under the assumption he has come across shiny new parts and whatnot through shady means. I dunno

Edited September 3, 2014 by 7.T.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

It could very well be that the whole egg, imprints, cloning, etc. mechanism is flawed (genetic degradation) and that these stabilizers are a necessary measure to combat that degradation.

 

EDIT:  Ninja'd.  XD

Edited September 3, 2014 by sushidubya

[tveeggad]

Definitely Ordis.

[PurpleBomber]

It could very well be that the whole egg, imprints, cloning, etc. mechanism is flawed (genetic degradation) and that these stabilizers are a necessary measure to combat that degradation.

 

EDIT:  Ninja'd.  XD

 

It won't be long before the Grineer start fielding their own mass-cloned Kubrows, hideous and deformed since they can't even afford the DNA stabilizers for themselves nevermind the dogs.

[Letter13]

My thoughts: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/285931-crazy-realizations/

I had thought about the cloning idea, but our kubrows aren't quite clones... We obtain the eggs from Kubrow nests on Earth, so technically all kubrows we hatch aren't clones (they may be genetically modified though). This is assuming the kubrow egg we fetch is already fertilized.

 

Another possibility is that they're born with some sort of defect, possibly something along the lines of advanced aging (2 days from a puppy to full grown? That's pretty fast).

 

As for the Grineer, we know that their DNA has degraded after thousands of years of cloning, but we don't know if it's actively degrading and that they need DNA stabilizers themselves or not.

[Stormandreas]

The DNA Stabalisers are needed as we have genetically grown and rush incubated a living creature. This makes its DNA unstable and thus it needs to be constantly maintained.

I do believe that DE themselves had confirmed that.

[Llyssa]

I had thought about the cloning idea, but our kubrows aren't quite clones... We obtain the eggs from Kubrow nests on Earth, so technically all kubrows we hatch aren't clones (they may be genetically modified though). This is assuming the kubrow egg we fetch is already fertilized.

 

Another possibility is that they're born with some sort of defect, possibly something along the lines of advanced aging (2 days from a puppy to full grown? That's pretty fast).

 

As for the Grineer, we know that their DNA has degraded after thousands of years of cloning, but we don't know if it's actively degrading and that they need DNA stabilizers themselves or not.

No. Read it again.

 

Telomeres have a limited number of cell divisions they can handle. The problem isn't that kubrows are clones, the problem is that kubrows age at an alarming rate(they gestate literally over night, and their entire lifespan of infant to adult takes 2 days). Fruit flies gestate and grow at about the same rate as a kubrow, and they die at about the same age as an un-restored kubrow.

[7.T.]

Another possibility is that they're born with some sort of defect, possibly something along the lines of advanced aging (2 days from a puppy to full grown? That's pretty fast).

   This I like more. Since the Kubrow have shields that can take bullets, they should be relatively protected from ambient radiation (I assume). I agree that our Kubows aren't really clones either so I like what you said about their aging. I think that accelerated aging -then stopping the acceleration- would be more troublesome for our llama bat dogs than other theories I've seen. 

Edited September 3, 2014 by 7.T.

[CedarDpg]

My thoughts;

-Kubrows are 'cloned' 

-DNA stabilizers prevent the degradation, the same degradation that affects the Grineer clones

But that doesn't explain why the first kubrow you get needs them so I dunno.

 

Perhaps they're weak to Void radiation being given off by the tenno?

Back when they were pets for the orokin, they wouldn't have been exposed to that radiation.

 

Or even, after centuries of being feral on Earth, they've become dependent on or used to something in that climate.

Without it, they degrade.

 

Well, in cloning, degradation would happen in a lossy copying method. Either the tech sucks and the copy is horribly wrecked from the get-go, or perhaps it's less lossy, but after generations of iterative clones the copy errors build up over time... The degradation would be at a fixed point per generation though... Either it's a mutation/replication error that's lethal or not. Or makes them prone to whatever diseases, like cancer, etc.

 

Degradation from being exposed to high energy radiation causing many instances of point mutations, or other genetic damage, etc. would make more sense.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

No. Read it again.

 

Telomeres have a limited number of cell divisions they can handle. The problem isn't that kubrows are clones, the problem is that kubrows age at an alarming rate(they gestate literally over night, and their entire lifespan of infant to adult takes 2 days). Fruit flies gestate and grow at about the same rate as a kubrow, and they die at about the same age as an un-restored kubrow.

 

Right right.  The rate at which they mature is a huge factor too.  Perhaps the DNA stabilizers keep them from rapidly over-aging to death.

[vomder]

The why doesn't matter, it's just a nuisance mechanic.

[CedarDpg]

Right right.  The rate at which they mature is a huge factor too.  Perhaps the DNA stabilizers keep them from rapidly over-aging to death.

 

Hmmm, that's true...maybe our Kubrow do suffer from some form of Progeria... Though, we don't know how fast feral Kubrow mature, nor do we know their lifespans...it's also possible that somehow they mature insanely fast naturally as well. We only assume they have a more expected and drawn out maturation time span.

Edited September 3, 2014 by CedarDpg

[Llyssa]

Hmmm, that's true...maybe our Kubrow do suffer from some form of Progeria... Though, we don't know how fast feral Kubrow mature, nor do we know their lifespans...it's also possible that somehow they mature insanely fast naturally as well. We only assume they have a more expected and drawn out maturation time span.

This would make the most sense, as the intro to Cicero crisis was that the Orokin had made everything on earth grow insanely fast, and that's *why* the grineer needed the Cicero toxin--the growth rate destroys everything they try to build, and they needed to slow it down.

 

Further, despite having grineer bases in kubrow territory, and having grineer actively hunting them, even killing them as we enter a mission, the kubrows come in massive swarms. This would match with a rapid growth rate and short life span--the grineer can't kill them off, even from the hearts of their own bases, because they come back too fast.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Llyssa