Warframe Ability Mods: Coming Changes

[tveeggad]

No. Just no.

[Omnimorph]

Is this a balance issue: Will the new power augments give us access to more power, utility and options than we yet know? 

 

Well of course the obvious paranoid conclusion is: PWE-style lockboxes. 

 

i.e. headroom built into the game now, for lockboxes with p2w items in the future.

 

But who knows - as the last guy commented in the thread re. the recent business announcement, time will tell ...

[Ronyn]

It helps me to pin point enemies location in the heat of the moment and in general situations, what direction I should block and where I should attack next. Having only one single enemy shown on the mini-map is not really helping me there if it also just shows the closest enemy.

I see. hmmm.

One of the tricky things about games is that what is necessary for one person is unnecessary for another.

[Clovis15]

I previously forma'd out three of my Vauban's abilities in order to better fit more defensive prowess (Vigor, Redirection, Vitality). I also did this because the only move I truly use on a regular basis is Bastille, so now I never have to worry about accidentally being on the wrong ability. Even if you give me two Formas back, what about the lengthy periods of suffering I had to go through in order to re-level my Vauban on each occasion? I get that you're not de-leveling the cards that I had already maxed out, but are you now forcing me to spend a colossal amount of time rebuilding him? I don't want compensation, I'd rather to not have to rebuild him at all.

 

Please let us move those polarities we painstakingly added into the remaining slots, rather than having our blood and sweat rolled back without mercy.

[Ronyn]

We can color the positive changes irrelevant to this discussion, because no one is arguing against them and no one will get hurt by them.

Good grief.....

[Naftal]

Good grief.....

What? Are you disagreeing?

[Monolake]

 

What if I Forma’d/Polarized the 2 slots being removed?

Any Forma spent on Polarizing these 2 slots will be reimbursed.



What if I Forma’d/Polarized the 2 Ability slots that are staying?

If you Polarized these slots, the Polarization choice will stay. If you did not Polarize these slots, they will have a default unassigned Polarity.

 

 

 

How is that decided?  Do you chop off the 2 right slots?  I have polarities moved all around on every frame. Do I need to swap all the polarites or what

[Ronyn]

What? Are you disagreeing?

Short answer-yes. It's all too interconnected to say that.

 

Long answer-

Ok so the mod/power system is designed as a whole.

DE's reasoning behind giving us 8 mod slots may very well be related (perhaps even contingent) on everyone having four powers with potential augments. From their perspective this trade off may be necessary to preserve balance.

In other words-the "positives that everyone agrees on" may actually be the reason why your perceived "quality of life is being" lowered and so you are being hurt by the positives by extension. Now I'm not even saying you would agree with their reasoning, only that these things are developed as a whole by the people who make them.....so it's not reasonable to look at one aspect as if isn't relevant to the other.

 

For the record-I do understand your basic opinion here that they should have just stuck with 10 mod slots. OK.

But I can't agree or disagree with that before I see how the WHOLE mod/power system is meant to function together.

 

EXMP: if I can add an augment to a certain power that bolsters my defense upon use, then another augment to a different power that gives me health regeneration.... will I still need the same health/shield/armor mods I use to?

I don't know. So how can I say whether 8 or 10 mod slots would work out better? I can't.

I'd be making judgments about a new system based on information I have from an old system.

 

TLDR: We need to look at the whole picture here. Singling out one aspect, (the mod slot is gone!) without considering why DE did it or how it fits in with this new augment system we know so little about is folly. 

 

What I do know is that multiple broken abilities can't be allowed to persist in any system.

So that is where I feel we should be focused.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Ronyn

[Naftal]

Short answer-yes. It's all too interconnected to say that.

 

Long answer-

Ok so the mod/power system is designed as a whole.

DE's reasoning behind giving us 8 mod slots may very well be related (perhaps even contingent) on everyone having four powers with potential augments. From their perspective this trade off may be necessary to preserve balance.

In other words-the "positives that everyone agrees on" may actually be the reason why your perceived "quality of life is being" lowered and so you are being hurt by the positives by extension. Now I'm not even saying you would agree with their reasoning, only that these things are developed as a whole by the people who make them.....so it's not reasonable to look at one aspect as if isn't relevant to the other.

 

We need to look at the whole picture here. Singling out one aspect, (the mod slot is gone!) without considering why DE did it or how it fits in with this new augment system we know so little about is folly. 

 

For the record-I do understand your basic opinion here that they should have just stuck with 10 mod slots. OK.

But I can't agree or disagree with that before I see how the WHOLE mod/power system is meant to function together.

 

EXMP: if I can add an augment to a certain power that bolsters my defense will I still need the same health/shield/armor mods I use to?

I don't know. So how can I say whether 8 or 10 mod slots would work out better? I can't.

I'd be making judgments about a new system based on information I have from an old system.

As long as DE don't give us a reason on why the slots are reduced, there's nothing else I can do but take the change at face value. I can only make the judgment based on the information we have been given. Until we have a reason, that change doesn't have a reason and anyone disagreeing with it should be vocal now, before the changes are live.

[Ronyn]

As long as DE don't give us a reason on why the slots are reduced, there's nothing else I can do but take the change at face value. I can only make the judgment based on the information we have been given. Until we have a reason, that change doesn't have a reason and anyone disagreeing with it should be vocal now, before the changes are live.

Face value includes the knowledge of the augments and lead designer voiced concerns about balance.

[Naftal]

Face value includes the knowledge of the augments and lead designer voiced concerns about balance.

So have they released proper information what the augments exactly do?

 

Balance is a bad reason for reducing our mod slots. Warframes don't really get much stronger with one or two more mod slots. The most broken things are already maxed with less slots. We would just be expanding horizontally and not vertically. If you understand the analogy.

[Ronyn]

So have they released proper information what the augments exactly do?

 

Balance is a bad reason for reducing our mod slots. Warframes don't really get much stronger with one or two more mod slots. The most broken things are already maxed with less slots. We would just be expanding horizontally and not vertically. If you understand the analogy.

Steve gave a few examples of what augments do but we are still dealing with ton more unknowns than knowns at this point.

As for mods relating to balance. I think certain mod combonations can result in some extra power....I also think certain utility mods are under utilized. Honestly I think the mod system is still a bit of a mess.lol

But I don't want to digress into that.

[unmog]

I think we should be able to keep all previous 4 warframe ability slots. Ive been saying for the longest times we need more mod slots. Theres several cases in frames where Id only run with one ability for instance, so I'd still be losing one mod slot on it. If we got to keep all 4 of those slots we would have more room for those non essential mods. Plus, with less mod slots in general, it will mean we will have an overall excess in mod capacity we simply cant use.

 

Honestly, it would be best if we kept all four of the slots, and instead add 2 more to all our weapons to match. :/

[Llyssa]

Based on my discussions with other players, demands we have for the system:

 

1. Include a way to let us underclock abilities, making them act as any rank we want that we have earned so far.

2. Unlock ALL abilities for a rank 0 frame. Currently, a matched polarity aura will do this for you. The extremely low max energy of rank 0 frames means that ults won't see a great deal of use until higher ranks anyways.

3. If forma compensations need to be made, a legendary "no re-ranking required" forma would be most-fair. Having to re-rank something to re-install a forma you already installed is wrong.

4. Alternative to 3: Many players single-skilled their frames. If you make it 3 slots instead of 2, they will NOT be disadvantaged by this change, and as they still had a singular proper-polarity slot, that would be the slot removed from all frames, thus NO forma would need be compensated to anyone.

 

5.(semi-unrelatedly) make mods in general able to be underclocked--it makes sense, particularly if it's already being done for abilities, and would ease up the requirements of duplicates for players.

 

All of the above should satisfy/remove the problems and setbacks we anticipate from the new system.

[Chad_Kroeger]

I really can't believe this much crying about 1 lost slot on "1-skill" frames, and everyone goes on "boohooo, my builds, my builds"

So darn annoying, game was never meant to be played that way, it was meant for us to GRIND so we can be able to take

all of our abilities with us, not to try and concentrate everything on 1 ability, and only spam that one....

 

You have different abilities for different situations, offensive / defensive abilities, ones for single target / or for crowd control,

playing with only 1 ability equiped is just plain stupid, you might as well play football on PS4, and just keep pressing "right" and "x" buttons,

this game is made for a bit more thinking and more strategy, less spamming...

 

I am really happy that I'm gonna be able to have all 4 abilities now, at all times, and I am getting 2 BONUS slots :)

It can't be a "nerf" in any way, it's a huge upgrade to a game, well done, can't wait to play new update ^_^

[as3mbus]

so. . . what happen if we forma the warframe with all maxed abilites ? should it back to rank 0 ?

[Zarlockk]

This is great way of fixing the 2 problems we had:

1) Not willing to use certain abilities and changing their slot polarity

2)Not having enough mod space to mod warframes on which we loved/used all 4 abilities like Rhino and Excalibur.

Looking forward for this U15 and this is 1 of the reasons for it now =)

[Shiditso]

Any chance we can get "special forma," which would allow us to forma something, but not have to reset it back to rank 0?

[(PSN)vinster]

Sigh, yet another major change.  I know it will be for the general good and it looks like that in theory.

 

But I have a use-case that will slightly suffer.  For example, I play Nova with ONLY Molecular Prime, so I have 9 free slots to max the ability and my warframe to my heart's content.

 

With this new change, I will only have 8 slots for mods. :(  Granted I can use all 4 powers now, but I will have to sacrifice one slot.

 

DE, can you make it 9 free slots (+ Aura) instead?  Pleeeaase!  :)

[unmog]

I really can't believe this much crying about 1 lost slot on "1-skill" frames, and everyone goes on "boohooo, my builds, my builds"

So darn annoying, game was never meant to be played that way, it was meant for us to GRIND so we can be able to take

all of our abilities with us, not to try and concentrate everything on 1 ability, and only spam that one....

 

You have different abilities for different situations, offensive / defensive abilities, ones for single target / or for crowd control,

playing with only 1 ability equiped is just plain stupid, you might as well play football on PS4, and just keep pressing "right" and "x" buttons,

this game is made for a bit more thinking and more strategy, less spamming...

 

I am really happy that I'm gonna be able to have all 4 abilities now, at all times, and I am getting 2 BONUS slots :)

It can't be a "nerf" in any way, it's a huge upgrade to a game, well done, can't wait to play new update ^_^

I think encouraging more grinding is a bad idea, nuff said~ everyone should be compensated fairly, and like I said above, I think we should all have more mod slots not less. If they want to even it out they should add 2 more mod slots to weapons, melee could really use them as theres no rank 10 mods and most extra mod capacity gained from forma is unnecessary if you have a stance. All frames and weapons etc should have 10 slots, not 8.

 

As far as using only one ability being stupid, that really shows your inexperience in my opinion. Many warframes still have rather stupid and useless or, underpowered [in general] abilities that just arent worth taking with you, not even getting into specific builds. But thats another discussion, one about balancing abilities. Theres a few right off the top of my head that could use a buff... how about most of frosts abilities? *shrug* I only ran with snowglobe on him, sometimes his ult... which still isnt as useful as Rhinos even though it essentially does the same thing. [Hits an area with high damage and a small stun]

Edited October 18, 2014 by unmog

[SoulEchelon]

Based on my discussions with other players, demands we have for the system:

 

1. Include a way to let us underclock abilities, making them act as any rank we want that we have earned so far.

2. Unlock ALL abilities for a rank 0 frame. Currently, a matched polarity aura will do this for you. The extremely low max energy of rank 0 frames means that ults won't see a great deal of use until higher ranks anyways.

3. If forma compensations need to be made, a legendary "no re-ranking required" forma would be most-fair. Having to re-rank something to re-install a forma you already installed is wrong.

4. Alternative to 3: Many players single-skilled their frames. If you make it 3 slots instead of 2, they will NOT be disadvantaged by this change, and as they still had a singular proper-polarity slot, that would be the slot removed from all frames, thus NO forma would need be compensated to anyone.

 

5.(semi-unrelatedly) make mods in general able to be underclocked--it makes sense, particularly if it's already being done for abilities, and would ease up the requirements of duplicates for players.

 

All of the above should satisfy/remove the problems and setbacks we anticipate from the new system.

 

1. I agree. Frankly I'd rather them let us underclock ALL mods. It's pretty annoying to need multiple Heavy Calibers or other corrupted mods just so I can use them to different degrees of their stats for different weapons/warframes. The fact that it costs SO much to upgrade such mods makes it feel pretty aggravating when you realize a particular weapon would be better off with a mod at mid/low rank than maxed.

 

2. Eh.. while I disagree, I wouldn't say no to this. Admittedly, it wouldn't take long to get to rank 15 (which might be the last rank needed for all abilities according to what Steve said in the devstream), but that argument goes both ways. It won't take long to get all abilities, so it also shouldn't really matter if we get them at Unranked either.

 

3. That..might be a slippery slope. While I initially agree with a forma like that, I'm also worried players will create a demand for it and DE might add something like that to the market. As long as DE adamantly states such a thing will never be purchasable, then I agree.

 

4. I'm not a fan at all of one trick pony playstyles. While I understand such players might be at a disadvantage, DE might be implementing it this way for exactly that reason - to do away with people only using just one ability. So I'm gonna have to disagree on this one.

 

5. See 1. I answered the questions as I read them, so didn't realize you pretty much stated exactly what I was recommending.

[PseudoExis]

Hmmm...

[unmog]

4. I'm not a fan at all of one trick pony playstyles. While I understand such players might be at a disadvantage, DE might be implementing it this way for exactly that reason - to do away with people only using just one ability. So I'm gonna have to disagree on this one.

I wanted to make a response to this too. I figure the game is all about people doing their own playstyle regardless of what others think... thats the freedom of the games modding system. It was an option some people took. If DE really wants everyone to use all the abilities, there needs to be more effort put forward to making sure each warframe ability is not only balanced with other similar warframe abilities, but that there are no stupid ones. For instance, compare embers wall of fire [now called fireblast] with oberon's hallowed ground. Ember only hurts people as they walk through it, not when theyre inside. Thats dumb... especially when it costs "more". Not to mention that embers ability is smaller, and it isnt increased by range mods. *shakes head* Most embers I know only run world on fire. Accelerant might be useful if it still had any of its old defensive traits to it. It might also be useful if it effected other members on your team to increase THEIR fire damage too. But as it is, fire damage isn't particularly useful as its only really good against one faction in the first place and others have resistances to it. While we're on ember, lets compare her Fireball to Hydroid Tempest Barrage. Hydroid again comes out the clear victor here, even though theyre essentially a very similar ability, the damage Hydroid can do is leagues apart for using the same amount of mana. Throw into the fact it has very strong CC that makes enemies fall down Embers Fireball falls even further behind.

 

TLDR... if DE wants everyone to use all their abilities, the abilities should be more useful on a lot of the older frames. Hopefully theres a huge list of buffs upcoming to balance them.

[zerogear5]

to further punch holes in the whole one ability builds there are at max 6 mods that affect any given ability more then enough slots are there to max your ability choice.

[413X]

Shot down? No one shot me down. The closest to a "shot down" was the person I was talking to way earlier in this thread, and even they understood that my post was an opinion. As for you, you've yet to give a proper rebuttal, and my statements before was, as stated, an OPINION anyways. It wasn't meant to be "shot down". I even stated my post was an opinion in my last post to that other person. All you've done so far is rant and try to look "cool" by saying ROFL this and THIS GUY that.

 You're not worth listening to if all you're going to do is that. I've debated with people on this forum far, FAR better than you. Suffice it to say, you're not worth it; especially when, again, there's nothing to argue about since my post was an opinion.

 

But yeah, good try trying to...do...whatever it is you were trying to do. If it was rile me up, then you failed. If it was making a point, then if your point was trying to sound "hip" while posting your opinions on a public forum, then I guess you succeeded? Congrats? *slow clap?*

 

Anyway it's time for us adults to go to work. Go ahead and post THIS GUY or ROFL again, see how many people care.

 

ROFL, Another attempt at leaving in a huff? Oh well. But burying your head in the sand isn't going to help. 

 

Let's just recap this then:

 

1.You make a generalised statement that 1-ability players voicing their concerns should just learn to play the game instead of "standing still and pressing 4" all the time.

 

2. I poke a hole in THAT generalised slander statement by pointing out that just because they're 1-ability users it hardly means they are going to be specialising in the 4th ability.

 

3. You "elaborate" by saying that as a general statement, it includes the 1-ability frames whose specialisation isn't their 4th ability, as your attempt to rebutt.

 

4. I then proceed to open up a new hole in your "revised" general statement by pointing out quite a few specialisations involve more than standing around pressing 4. Specifically, an Invisibility specialisation Loki is probably better off keeping mobile, and even a Radial Disarm Loki would probably want to move to keep out of the way of Baton blows.

 

5.You proceed to rage that all you're doing is making general statements and accuse me of not reading your posts fully and understanding them. You even ask why I brought up Invisibility-only Loki which isn't relevant to the discussion at all, even though your revision made it relevant (facepalm). Then, you proceed to suggest a try a Radial Disarm build Loki instead.... despite my having already brought it up in Step 4.

 

6. I point out that perhaps I'm not the one who should be taking the time to read posts fully before flying off the handle and replying to it. I also mention that maybe you shouldn't be making general statements as a blanket indictment of 1-ability players if they're so fragile they start falling apart with obvious fallacies the moment someone even takes a second glance at them.

 

7. You now no longer even offer any kind of rebuttal or defense apart from name-calling and demanding that I get good at debating. Considering I've already taken all your previous "debating" attempts apart without breaking a sweat, maybe you should have taken a few debate classes yourself, hmm?

 

Anyhow, it's Sunday (well Saturday in some parts of the world) and I guess I'll go and get some chores done, before Monday comes along and I have to go back to work.

Edited October 18, 2014 by 413X