Limbo Feedback By Einde : The Perfect Exemple Of Good Ideas Spoiled By A Bad Design.

[Euroboss]

I really like the idea, but the skills needs some work

[DamnedNOOB]

Love this frame as it is. i understand your point OP, but except the ability to troll HARD he is my 100% favourite frame now due to infinite untility.

just get some mates to play with, talk to players who dont own Limbo and explain some skills.

 

would cry HARD if he gets changed too much, i already love him.

 

sadly in every, EVERY game i was playing until now- if a new character / champ comes out everyone is QQing and what else how OP, troll'ish, NOOBlike etc. etc. it is.

 

Please open your mind a bit guys. ty

Edited October 25, 2014 by DamnedNOOB

[Azamagon]

I thought of some things to make the whole banishing / rift plane a bit more rewarding:

 

Enemies in the Rift = Suffers minor damage over time, more susceptible to damage (25% or so?) and move and attack 50% slower (no matter how they get in there)

Allies (including Mr. Limbo) in the Rift = Move, reload and attack (ranged and melee) 25% faster and regens energy (and health and stamina?) over time.

 

* Banish *

On enemies: Deals instant damage to the target. Whenever an enemy is Banished from the physical plane, all other enemy units in the Rift suffer a smaller amount of instant damage too, making it a pseudo aoe spell (works well with itself and Cataclysm). If Limbo casts Banish on a target while he is in the Rift plane, it won't have its banishment refreshed, but it (and all other Rift plane enemies) suffer the instant Banish damages!

On allies: Sends the ally to the Rift with its passive bonuses, while also creating a portal slightly behind the banished ally (or in whatever possible direction, if a wall is nearby blocking the portal) so they can exit/enter the Rift whenever they want.

 

* Rift Walk *

Grants Mr. Limbo some hefty amount of movementspeed, attackspeed (melee and ranged) and reloadspeed bonus (stacking with the passive Rift bonus) but quite briefly. The buff is applied both when exitting or enterring the Rift. No longer has a cast time!

 

* Rift Surge *

Enemies in the physical plane: Slowed down by 50% (their movement, attackspeed AND all their projectiles!)

Enemies in the Rift plane: Paused (meaning, stunned, including their projectiles!) and further increases their susceptibility to damage

 

* Cataclysm *

Summons a Rift sphere that implodes inwards, dealing constant damage to any enemy caught inside it (rather than only when enterring/exitting). Pulls enemies in the sphere towards the middle (not ragdolling, but gliding them in slowly). Banished allies (or if they go inside the Cataclysm Sphere) will be able to interact with the enemy and vice versa.

 

It's a little hard to make it troll-free, will think more about this after getting some sleep *yawn*

Edited October 25, 2014 by Azamagon

[R34LM]

I just tried using a ranked up limbo in Vedic Ceres. There, you have about 15 guys to a room, including Seekers that do overpowering damage, at least 2 gunners and at least 2 bombards. Used rift walk to protect myself and used banish to pick of the group one by one. It takes way too long. So I decided to use cataclysm...horrible idea. If I was in the rift, now I had that many enemies shooting at me regardless. If I wasn't in the rift, they'd just run outside half the time and continue to shoot me.

 

Enemies need a serious debuff or allies and myself need a serious buff in the void to make banishing in any case worth it.

[Wynn]

I think people overlook the fact that he is a giant energy battery for the party. Anything in the Rift gains energy hell I cast Rift Walk to top off my energy.  I been playing all weekend as a old school MMO bard.

 

I tend to keep a huge Cataclysm bubble over area we fighting which stops NPC firing at us from range and give the party energy. Once groups found out that I'm a energy battery for them they seem happy.

 

Only thing needs to go is maybe make Banish last like 5 seconds on fellow players.

[Genoscythe]

Well for me its minus the look that I find absolutely unfitting for a Warframe and generally rather ridiculious (hope to get rid of the hat with the alt helmet, but cmon, first the enormous amount of hentai jokes with hydroid, then discoballs with mirage and now top hats). But thats taste.

 

As OP said, rift needs to have more use than just a phase in/out function, you can easily ruin a mission by phasing the wrong enemy/player in the wrong moment.

 

 

The more I think, the more I wonder if the idea of the banishment is really something that we could keep. Maybe there's no way to implement right Limbo's rift mechnanic, and it has to be scrapped. :/

 

I wouldn't go too far and say that Limbo has to be scrapped totally though. After all, I am not a dev, and it's too soon to say that anyway. There may be some good ways to implement that. It has to be.

 

 

DE never scraps stuff they brought out, even if it would be better, dont worry.

 

But maybe fusing rift walk and banish and implement a skill that damages and debuffs banished targets heavily (maybe reduce armor by up to 100%) and heals and buffs banished friendlies would be appreciated, something that you can combine like the biotic explosions in mass effect if you want it so.

 

The problem with the frame is the time you need, because many frames can already eradicate the whole enemy platoon in less than 5 seconds, so we need a reward for the time we need more.

 

 

I think the combo of support and damage is a nice one, we dont really have a frame that can do both at once in a suficient way.

[Vashramire]

I'm not going to say worst ever, but he does have some glaring holes in his playstyle. 

 

Banish probably shouldn't work on players at all or if it does, have half the duration on them or something similar. Friendlies aren't going to be useful in the Rift for 10+ seconds. It's great for hostages though. The knockdown on enemies is appreciated. Also funny side note, most people think the stalker is coming if you use it on them.

 

I'm fine with Rift Walk I guess. I have more an issue with being in the Rift still allows you collision with non-Rift enemies/players. If you get swarmed by infested while using this, you can get pinned to the ceiling in lower rooms if not the corner! And guess what? You die at the end. He is abysmal at soloing most mission types really despite his "invulnerability". Also it would be nice to see a bit easier when in the Rift.

 

Rift Surge is useless period. Especially for the cost. Minor buff to you while only in the Rift which in turn costs energy to maintain both Cataclysm(which is constantly shrinking) and pull enemies in with Banish. Needs redone completely. Completely different. Either a burst damage to all in the Rift(combine with Cata for burst) or a team buff of some sort. 

 

Cataclysm has it's moments. Dev Stream discribed it as an aoe that followed you but functions more like a 1-way range cast Snow Globe that shrinks slowly. I'm not sure which I would prefer. First off it needs to not shrink. It already does pitiful damage to anything that enters and slowly becomes more useless as the duration goes on. This on top of what I'm going to assume is a bug that you can't pick up Items in it or break containers because those don't phase for some reason. The Rift needs to passively damage enemies at least. Banish and Cataclysm both do the same damage and at high levels it's disregardable on top of your troll/confusing skillset. Make it do like 100 damage a sec. You are investing in controlling a specific area for and extended period of time and right now the payoff is, if it doesn't kill them then randomly enemies will pop out and tear up your team. Right now Hydroid can CC/kill (also doing far more damage over time in an area) without hindering teammates ability to assist with Tentacle Swarm. This ability needs to figure out what it wants to be because it can't forcefully zone the enemy currently. It needs to slow and/or do more damage without shrinking. That needs to be the baseline buff for this skill.

 

I do love playing him at times but when I use my powers I can tell even my friends irl are even frustrated. I can only imagine pugs.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Vashramire

[KaptainK3nny]

-snip-

You know what i hate.

1. The only reason this is popular is because that your a community mod.

2. The fact that a moderator is encouraging complaining Which is what this really is on forums

3. The fact that people like you cant accept things the way they are.

4. His powers are useful maybe you just can't play him good.

5. The fact that you want a rework for a frame out for less than a week.

6. By You Posting this you're just encouraging more people to do the same.

7. Because you are a mod People dont feel like disagreeing or speaking up

This cannot be tolerated Limbo is a good frame if you don't agree don't use him. 

[Skullriot]

You know what i hate.

1. The only reason this is popular is because that your a community mod.

2. The fact that a moderator is encouraging complaining Which is what this really is on forums

3. The fact that people like you cant accept things the way they are.

4. His powers are useful maybe you just can't play him good.

5. The fact that you want a rework for a frame out for less than a week.

6. By You Posting this you're just encouraging more people to do the same.

7. Because you are a mod People dont feel like disagreeing or speaking up

This cannot be tolerated Limbo is a good frame if you don't agree don't use him. 

Talk about the least constructive post in the thread, AMIRITE?!

[LascarCapable]

 

-snip-

 

As I said, I think he have his niche. But his powers are really not making the work easy, that's why I said that it was the worst skilled I saw... It's a matter of opinion of course.

 

The fact that you don't know if you're helping your team more than you're harming your team is my main concern about it. :p

 

 

 

-snip-

 

It's true that so far, no whole Warframe has been scrapped. Yet I am really curious about what solution the staff may find about this.

 

For the case of Banish/Rift Walk, I think something working like this would be pretty nice : you can still target ennemies and allies normally, and to target yourself you just aim the floor near you. I think we can also make an AoE targeting, that would fix two or three issues.

 

 

I think Banish should create a small rift pocket on the ground if you target an ally. This pocket will serve as an entry/exit point for teammates, allowing you to tactically place these so allies can benefit from the rift.

 

I don't think that it would be easy to use it this way... But that's may be a good start for a better idea. Gotta dig that farther IMO.

 

 

I think people overlook the fact that he is a giant energy battery for the party. Anything in the Rift gains energy hell I cast Rift Walk to top off my energy.  I been playing all weekend as a old school MMO bard.

 

I tend to keep a huge Cataclysm bubble over area we fighting which stops NPC firing at us from range and give the party energy. Once groups found out that I'm a energy battery for them they seem happy.

 

Only thing needs to go is maybe make Banish last like 5 seconds on fellow players.

 

I have to admit that I forgot that point... Is cataclysm replenishing energy as well ?

 

 

You know what i hate.

1. The only reason this is popular is because that your a community mod.

2. The fact that a moderator is encouraging complaining Which is what this really is on forums

3. The fact that people like you cant accept things the way they are.

4. His powers are useful maybe you just can't play him good.

5. The fact that you want a rework for a frame out for less than a week.

6. By You Posting this you're just encouraging more people to do the same.

7. Because you are a mod People dont feel like disagreeing or speaking up

This cannot be tolerated Limbo is a good frame if you don't agree don't use him. 

 

You should check the post of DamnedNOOB.

 

His post totally differs from my opinion. He thinks that Limbo is totally fine as it is, and that we should leave him alone : I can totally deal with that. I never forced anyone to think the way I am thinking, and so far I didn't hid anything. Everybody is free to argue and I never showed any trace of antagonism toward those who are against what I think. Yet, I am also a player, and I am free to give my own feedback as well as you and every member of the Warframe Community. I shall ask you to avoid that kind of messages, because this feels like a direct attack toward toward not only me, but also the whole community moderatior crew, and may lead to derailments. This is just an argument that leads us nowhere.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Einde
typos

[R34LM]

You know what i hate.

1. The only reason this is popular is because that your a community mod.

I stopped reading there. You now have lost any reason to be taken seriously. Went ahead and read the rest; nothing but hate towards the OP.

 

Garbage

Edited October 25, 2014 by R34LM

[Letter13]

You know what i hate.

1. The only reason this is popular is because that your a community mod.

2. The fact that a moderator is encouraging complaining Which is what this really is on forums

3. The fact that people like you cant accept things the way they are.

4. His powers are useful maybe you just can't play him good.

5. The fact that you want a rework for a frame out for less than a week.

6. By You Posting this you're just encouraging more people to do the same.

7. Because you are a mod People dont feel like disagreeing or speaking up

This cannot be tolerated Limbo is a good frame if you don't agree don't use him. 

1. Being a community moderator doesn't make everything you say immediately popular. While it can help, the content of the post weighs more than the name behind it. Trust me. A lot of my feedback and ideas I've suggested fell flat on their face.

2. We encourage users to give feedback, especially negative feedback, if users aren't vocal about what they don't like then DE won't know what to change. When people don't like something or believe something should be changed, they should say so. Negative feedback results in changes which improve parts of the game that need improvement to increase player enjoyment. Positive feedback is also good, because it lets the developers know that they're on the right track. Both positive and negative feedback were incorporated into the thread, which is the ideal form of feedback, say what's good and say what can be improved.

3. "Stop complaining" is not something that people who are dissatisfied should be told. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including those who disagree with how things have been implemented in the game. Respect others and respect their opinions. You too are entitled to your opinion and you are free to disagree with others, but putting them down because you disagree with them is not conducive towards respectful interactions and helping the game be made better.

4. Again, "git gud" isn't very respectful. If there are a lot of people agreeing with him then it probably means he's right. I highly doubt that large portions of the playerbase (especially veterans) all just need to "get good".

5. So what if someone wants a rework for a frame that's only two days old? If a lot of people agree or feel similarly that the frame should be redesigned, then maybe there's merit in redesigning it.

6. Read 2

7. I can guarantee that if a non-moderator made this exact same post it'd most likely receive the same sort of response from the community, sans yours of course because you wouldn't be getting on their case because they're not a moderator.

 

Telling users (moderator or not) that they shouldn't be posting feedback is tantamount to sabotaging the game itself. Do you want to sabotage the game's development? Because that's how you do it.

 

P.S. I also agree with many of the points and feel as though Limbo is a niche frame that could use some rework.

[Angary]

I played mine for a while. I completely agree with OP. I pretty much stop using my power other than rift walk to get out of sticky situation. When I play in teams,  every skill I used frustrated the hell out of my teammates.

Banish + Haven mod should be interesting though, if I can actually grind enough points to get it. lol

 

Also, 32 pages of suggestions, over 600 skills had been suggested on the design council for this frame, and this is what they come up with. *sigh* Even the names people suggested sounds so much better than lamebro. XD

 

Edit: It is an awesome looking frame. Love that top hat.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Angary

[R34LM]

The problem with the frame is the time you need, because many frames can already eradicate the whole enemy platoon in less than 5 seconds, so we need a reward for the time we need more.

This is my problem. I know he requires a different style of play, but I can do more with other frames in less the time. But I REALLY want to enjoy limbo, because he could be my perfect solo frame :/

Valkyr went through the same process when Hysteria was lackluster starting off.

I have to admit that I forgot that point... Is cataclysm replenishing energy as well ?

I can't say for other players, but whenever Limbo is in the rift (by rift walk or cataclysm) he replenishes energy. Tis his world, so it has to be comfy.

EDIT: Checked wiki, it says any frame in the rift regenerates 2 energy per second. I have to say it stacks nicely with energy siphon.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Einde

[MotherofHermes]

It seems to me (as far as the trolling aspect), that those banished simply need an Exit strategy to remove the abuse case slightly. Perhaps a certain action, such as crouching or jumping, should pull a player out of limbo if they were forced in. This would allow other characters to decide how long they want to chill in the limbo lounge. 

 

This idea could even be a teamwide buff that allows others to perform some sort of action or key press (do we use 5 for anything right now?) to enter and exit as they please. One frame would allow a whole new game aspect for the whole party. 

 

Regardless, I am sure that DE is probably keeping an eye on the player response for limbo in that it directly affects their sales. #PerrinSequence

[LascarCapable]

I can't say for other players, but whenever Limbo is in the rift (by rift walk or cataclysm) he replenishes energy. Tis his world, so it has to be comfy.

EDIT: Checked wiki, it says any frame in the rift regenerates 2 energy per second. I have to say it stacks nicely with energy siphon.

 

Well, that's a nice thing to know. However this does not make my points irrevelant IMO : you're afforded energy, yet you can't use it until you're out (or until something pops in the rift), and your powers may be still more harming than useful when it's about targeting ennemies...

 

 

It seems to me (as far as the trolling aspect), that those banished simply need an Exit strategy to remove the abuse case slightly. Perhaps a certain action, such as crouching or jumping, should pull a player out of limbo if they were forced in. This would allow other characters to decide how long they want to chill in the limbo lounge. 

 

This idea could even be a teamwide buff that allows others to perform some sort of action or key press (do we use 5 for anything right now?) to enter and exit as they please. One frame would allow a whole new game aspect for the whole party. 

 

Regardless, I am sure that DE is probably keeping an eye on the player response for limbo in that it directly affects their sales. #PerrinSequence

 

PsiWarp suggested to leave a sort of portal near the targeted ally. I think there's something to dig here.

 

I don't think that adding a keybind just to exit the rift is the good solution also.

[Wynn]

Einde I make a really really big bubble at this point once I told parties to treat it kinda like Frost bubble parties seem fine with it. I've also ask non LImbos in the party they seem to be gaining regen from Cataclysm too.

[LascarCapable]

Einde I make a really really big bubble at this point once I told parties to treat it kinda like Frost bubble parties seem fine with it. I've also ask non LImbos in the party they seem to be gaining regen from Cataclysm too.

 

Yeah. It also seems like the Wiki has more info about Limbo too. If I read well, you are able to affect both planes while using your powers. This is making another good point about using Banish on allies.

 

We definitely still need an overhaul though. Limbo was not supposed to be used as a Frost version 2 IMO.

[izzatuw]

I agree with everything here, I think Banishing needs CC, not single targetting.

Rift Walk needs to allow you to pick up items.

[Cleesus]

I played mine for a while. I completely agree with OP. I pretty much stop using my power other than rift walk to get out of sticky situation. When I play in teams,  every skill I used frustrated the hell out of my teammates.

Banish + Haven mod should be interesting though, if I can actually grind enough points to get it. lol

 

Also, 32 pages of suggestions, over 600 skills had been suggested on the design council for this frame, and this is what they come up with. *sigh* Even the names people suggested sounds so much better than lamebro. XD

 

Edit: It is an awesome looking frame. Love that top hat.

Yes it definitely is frustrating that out of all the skills suggested these are what we get. Hopefully they can shape them up to be something better as time goes on because like you said, most of Limbos skills are very jarring and unfriendly to teammates among other things.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

1. Being a community moderator doesn't make everything you say immediately popular. While it can help, the content of the post weighs more than the name behind it. Trust me. A lot of my feedback and ideas I've suggested fell flat on their face.

Just wanting to add that NONE of my threads ever made it past 3 pages, even as a mod.

I'm lucky to break 10 upvotes even when most of the posters really enjoyed it. :/

 

The first step should really be removed/reworked is being able to Banish allies.

That is the absolute worst point, I would say, of the skills.

[Wynn]

I know how to fix Banish just came up with it what if it was a buff that sat on the player, if they take lethal damage it goes off. Better yet this "Fix" still makes the new mods for it useful also.

[GideonG]

I have to say, you pretty much nailed my thoughts on Limbo. I really enjoy his aesthetic (even though I don't think it's well-placed in Warframe), but his skill set is entirely inefficient in terms of potential. I've often found myself playing Limbo and only using my guns, because it's more effective than Rift Walking + Banish + Rift Surge or Rift Surge + Cataclysm. The idea is amazing, the implementation is poor.

Banish suffers from the same thing Nekros' Soul Punch does, it's single-target and relatively weak. Additionally, once it's no longer a one-shot skill, it becomes more hassle than it's worth. It can also be used on allies. Which is easily the worst idea I could ever imagine from a design stand point. The ability to banish an ally, leaving them unable to really play the game, for 10-20 seconds? This needs to be removed entirely, IMO.

Rift Walk isn't bad. It's a self banish, but it doesn't necessarily work with Cataclysm the way I had hoped it would. EDIT: Also, please remove the dark shroud effect while using this skill, makes it incredibly difficult to see/play with.

Rift Surge. Too much work in order to put things in the rift, then yourself, then use this. Especially for the small buff. Increase the buff, make it work differently in rift and out of rift. Maybe increased damage in rift, increased survivability outside of rift (since I see this as a "phased" state, kind of in-between the planes).

Cataclysm. Neat idea, cool animation. Allies can't shoot through it. Things cant be picked up in it. I've had weird bugs with too much +Range on it as well ... Often times, while playing defense missions with him, I've had my entire team get stuck in banish due to Cataclysm. They couldn't pick anything up, couldn't damage enemies, nothing. Some bugs need ironing out as well. Things should be able to be picked up while in cataclysm and rift walk as well, please. Make it toggleable like Mirages Prism, allow allies to shoot into it. EDIT: Please make the visual effect for allies/self less intrusive. It's incredibly obnoxious.

In all, Limbo has a really neat concept. In the end, he just ends up making combat game play more complicated than fun. Especially for team mates. I could see all the instances where the ability to control the battlefield might be neat, but not when I'm with a team. Change 1 and 3 drastically, minor adjustments on 4. Should be a really useful frame with a very neat concept. Otherwise, I'll probably not play him until you fix him. And that makes me sad, since he's a really well-designed frame concept!

Edited October 26, 2014 by GideonG

[Shafilp]

agree with OP and really limbo need to rework his skill ASAP.

btw i got some tip for his team-play job

 

forget in picture Zone A : Ally/Yourself will not get hurt by other enemies and suggest on less duration build

but idk that will be work on pub game

Edited October 26, 2014 by Shafilp

[Veddhartha]

I don't have Limbo, and likely never will. The magician look just doesn't do it for me. That said, a friend bought him, and I got sick of him early in the day. Cataclysm does heal allies for about 2 energy per second, but it's a pain in the &#! when I'm getting ready to fire at something more than 5 meters away only to be stopped by the damned thing. My favorite was wanting to grab the much-needed Energy on the ground, but being unable to since it seems you can't pick up anything while in the Rift; even if an enemy you killed in the rift dropped said item. While it was only a problem initially she'd Banish someone in the group, and, God above, I feel for anyone on the end of that in the hands of a troll.