Arcwing- It's A Poorly Added Flashey-Thing That Gives Nothing To The Base Game.

[taiiat]

yay, more doubleposting. still waiting to be able to not use Autoformatting.

-snip-

thinking that information isn't read is naive.

obviously [all] 100% of it isn't, but it's important feedback.

 

 

if you think anything you say will always fall on deaf ears, that's on you.

 

 

Edit:

 

 

you need to lower your standards

absolutely not. end consumers in the entire world need to raise their standards. setting a bar doesn't mean you can't comprehend and understand why something doesn't meet it at a given point in time.

Edited October 26, 2014 by taiiat

[UltimateSpinDash]

I liked what I was able to play, although not having any mods and pretty much having to use Rhino sucks.

 

I think they should tweak and fix Archwing first, then the next logical step would be a mission type that combines normal gameplay and Archwing.

[Void.Soul]

There needs to be some kind of synergy between normal and archwing missions, or else they will just be what they are-- a gimmick. I agree with OP, I really wish they had spent all this time and effort enriching the main game with new stuff rather than this thrown together crap.

[CY13ERPUNK]

as pretty as archwing is

 

+9999 OP

 

think of all the man-hours that could have gone into making the core game mechanics so much better, instead we have more half-assed, buggy content =/

 

over a year of effort went into archwing, OVER A YEAR =/

[ComfyOlivia]

When we first heard about ArchWing six months ago I made this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/291966-are-wings-and-space-combat-really-what-wf-needs/#entry3337951

 

This is the S#&$ I was saying back in August. So, before I go on my mini-rant, I'm gonna do my I-Told-You-So dance.

 

 

Sorry, I had to ;P

 

I've seen it a million times. Devs saying they're adding whole new levels of gameplay, people hype, Devs self-hype, and over confidently and prematurely release a giant ball of heaping bug. Whose fault is it? Nobody's! It's very human to get excited AND COMPLETELY ruin something. Here's a list of things overly hyped that turned S#&$:

 

Duke Nukem: Forever

DayZ Standalone

Almost Every Book Made in to a Film

Batman and Robin the Movie

Archwing

Final Fantasy XIV (the first version)

Every Nickleback Album

Metallica's Latest Album (there were one or two goodies)

High School

Life

 

It happens everywhere folks.

 

It seems DE tried to bite off more than they can chew and did it in an all-so-glorious ball of fire. Again, not their fault. We as a community pushed and pestered. Archwing, the Limbo quest, and Syndicates all coulda used a couple of more weeks in the oven. Archwing content is buggy as hell, it's not very well balanced, and it decides whether or not you go ahead and rip your hair out, and fork that green out of your sissy wallet to get that Limbo, which if I am not being lied to, is nothing to be excited about.

 

And I have to pay a Catalyst to get to rank 2 in a Syndicate? That isn't an error, that's actually silly.

[Mythblaze]

What I find to be utter BS is that Sheldon has done very little to address the RNG issues.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mythblaze

[Innocent_Flower]

Feedback, even negative, is valuable. 

 

It's clear that you're not satisfied with the latest content, but you need to say more than "I don't like it" if you want it to be made better.

 

Ah, I was under the train of thought that said "This is bad because it doesn't do X" would mean that I'm suggesting that "This would be better if it did X, please do X, DE" 

 

 

But I think the main thing to do would be to put archwing into normal gameplay. 

 

- Scrap the archwing mission (or replace that archwing with a better one) and have it so that all players get immediate access to archwings. 

 

- Rather than have standalone archwing missions. Have archwing segments. Including, but not limited to: 

Using the archwing to get onto the ship/installation  you have a mission on.

Using the archwing to escape a ship/installation. 

Moving from ship to ship or asteroid to asteroid. 

Moving between bases on low gravity moons. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Endorphinz]

Personally I love it, and it's by no means required to do anything in the main game, it feels more like a mini-game of sorts (Like the gummi ship sections in Kingdumb Hearts, which I also adored).

 

While it is buggy, I'm in love with the idea. Love it or hate it, that's your opinion, but I don't feel like it negatively impacts anyone who doesn't care for this whole section. I feel like it does add to the game by giving it an entirely new gamemode, which one can try to master, or ignore. It's flashy and cool!

 

EDIT: By the way, I don't actually feel like it was hyped up, at least as much as previous huge updates (like melee 2.0 and the cephalon, which were both massive disappointments to me) so even if I didn't like it, I still wouldn't have been disappointed. I figured anyone looking on from the outside would have known what this was exactly, a diversion from normal gameplay, nothing related to the core game. Not like they're gonna change half the missions in the game to outer space, so you can take your "I told you so" dance out of here, no one cares.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Endorphinz

[inks84]

this is a stupid post. archwing just came out and you expect it to be perfect from the start.. I played warframe from the beginning and it turned into something a paying game cant even match! archwing will be no different. just needs time to bloom.. and personally I like it already. +1 for the DE!

[DirkDeadeye]

When we first heard about ArchWing six months ago I made this: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/291966-are-wings-and-space-combat-really-what-wf-needs/#entry3337951

 

This is the S#&$ I was saying back in August. So, before I go on my mini-rant, I'm gonna do my I-Told-You-So dance.

 

 

 

I know them feels. I've been ostracized from being 'that guy' so many times..so tread carefully.

[Innocent_Flower]

this is a stupid post. archwing just came out and you expect it to be perfect from the start..

What? Where the hell did I say that? WHERE THE HELL DID I SAY THAT? 

 

I thought it uneccessary and a drain of resources, and it's questionable to pick archwing over more player-wanted things (movement 2.0, better leveling, better weapons, better enemies...)  

 

Obviously I didn't expect it perfect. But Admittedly I expected it to be better than what it is now. I expected a bug filled mess with a few little mechanics that need to be worked on. I didn't expect it to be this bad. I thought it'd be a part of missions; Not seperate with it's own few missions. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Kyte]

- Wouldn't have made archwing so soon in development. Would have focused on basic gameplay mechanics first (interesting enemies, good scalling, ballance, interesting weapons, movement improvements). Failing that; 

 

- Everyone gets the most basic arcwing free. Though If I had an option I would've also added other items for tenno to use (perhaps those flying dargyn) 

 

- Archwing enemies would appear in standard gameplay when appropriate. Regular enemies would apear in archwing gameplay when appropriate. 

 

- arcwing (dargyn) sections are only parts of missions. Think "we need to board this ship, let's fight some enemies to get past it". or "We need to leave this ship and get to X for extraction" or "we need to move from asteroid A to Asteroid B" 

 

- Small ships in space. Fighters, troop transports, resource transports. 

 

- dodging is bigger. Vehicles are faster when traveling longer distances. 

 

- No corpus ship trench runs. 

 

- Mods are more common.

- If it were up to you we'd literally never get any new things.

 

- Free Odonata would've been nice, tbh, but it's not hard or expensive to make, anyways.

-- And we did get 2 arch-guns, 2 arch-melees and 2 archwings.

 

- Integration is hard and takes time. They already said they want to do it. They mentioned in the stream that while they were working on J3 Archwing came along so they got really interested in the idea of integrating it into the mission. But this takes time, and it's much better if you have the pure system working properly before introducing hybrid missings.

 

- Those huge ships you see /are/ transports.

 

- Just strafe, it works.

 

- Trench run is a deliberate homage to Star Wars and it works awesomely. Fix your taste.

 

- I s'pose I have to agree wrt mods.

[JawnHenry]

Archwing, sucks! Can't even get through first mission because UI is terrible, no minimap, no sense of diretion what so ever.  I have no idea, nor was anything explained about how to navigate in this mode, what happened to tutorial?

[Edgedemon]

 

-The binary nature. It's an archwing mission or a foot mission and there's no synergy between them. There's few arcwing missions and so you're not given many ways to level your stuff for the more difficult archwing missions. 

- Having to build your first archwing has something to do with how disconnected they are. Archwing just can't be mixed with normal gameplay because not everybody has an archwing. 

 

well you can't really speak of "binary nature" given arch wing is such a small part of the game, for now at least, they could be added  to the post tutorial to warrant everyone has one but appart from that doesn't seem so bad and i liked haivng another mission and a simple... "oh i found this on the floor let put it on my back and jump"

 

even better they could add a little arch wing part to tutorial that ends with you crashing into the Liset hangar!, that would fit "why there wasn't  grineer when you got into that room" , "why wasn't Liset taken before" AND would let new players taste the arch wing system, then since you crashed the grineer recovered one you would need to get another leading to the current mission.

 

I think the idea is good.

But they should have waited at least 2 weeks before releasing this bug infested glitch-maimed crash-ridden stuff, because i cannot complete a single archwing mission BECAUSE the enemies ALWAYS get stuck in a freakin' asteroid.

we always knew this was beta, each time we begged to get U15 faster we were pushing harder to eat those bugs.  

 

Also a running version get debugged faster as more users test more use cases, and even try stuff beyond the original use cases, then again a monday launch would have given easier time to debug for them but then, most of us i would had been at work/school

 

Well i kinda liked it up to now, it's fun, but yeah... some more "integration" would be welcome, up to now i consider it a very positive addition, the only thing that bothers me though, is that since the only thing we carry from the warframe to the archwing is health, energy and shields... then the choice of frame gets a bit limited imo.

 

It's a good start.

 

I'd like to see it integrated into invasion missions. That would be a really cool place for it. 

Agreed the first mission where you are launched into space and grab your Arch Wing to make a last second escape was EPIC i am sad i cant do it again.

 

then again once arch wings are more common use, i hope we can get missions where either the entry, or the escape are Arch Wing "race like" areas, we could also get it as "sudden event" in some invasion missions like grineer get into the Derelict some times, or even after a normal sabotage mission we could escape with that

[Innocent_Flower]

- If it were up to you we'd literally never get any new things. Not really. A couple of balance passes at first. Then  Improvements to current systems (scaling, mods,elements,RNG). After that focus would be on Enemy improvements and additions. Parkour improvements. Better missions. More gamemodes. Power customisation, Probably a "zero G" mode at one point. 

 

- Free Odonata would've been nice, tbh, but it's not hard or expensive to make, anyways. read on intergration. 

-- And we did get 2 arch-guns, 2 arch-melees and 2 archwings. all of which are a pain to make. Farming for parts for regular weapons? Really? Probably would have gone for 

 

- Integration is hard and takes time. They already said they want to do it. They mentioned in the stream that while they were working on J3 Archwing came along so they got really interested in the idea of integrating it into the mission. But this takes time, and it's much better if you have the pure system working properly before introducing hybrid missings. Fair point. However, archwing would be better intergrated if everyone had one. everyone. 

 

- Those huge ships you see /are/ transports. I was thinking more gunship/dropship type things.Small ships.  You know; Small enough for an archwing to take down. 

 

- Just strafe, it works. should it? Why shouldn't dodge work? 

 

- Trench run is a deliberate homage to Star Wars and it works awesomely. Fix your taste. Star wars is awesome, but dumb. Also Star Wars' trench run had the advantage of being fast. 

 

- I s'pose I have to agree wrt mods.

[fatpig84]

Again your mileage will vary. I had a lot of fun in Archwing modes, but had a fist full of bugs.

Which is far worse than now since I rushed Archwing.

 

But again this is brand new, Archwings will be integrated eventually to normal missions I supposed and I look forward to see how it can be expanded on and push the story along.

 

 

Also why is there a "negative" notion for farming for normal guns ? We are already doing that for Seer, Miter and Twin gremlins. Then you get rare ones like Brakk, Detron and Stalker gear. That isn't an issue really.

Edited October 27, 2014 by fatpig84

[Innocent_Flower]

Friggates, carriers... They're the names of ship classes. 

 

 

When I first read that the corpus had these, I thought we could use the archwings to fight small corpus ships between 15 and 40 meters (maybe bigger for some types) Instead I was greated by an osprey three times the size of me. 

 

 

Well, A huge osprey's good and all; But that's the kinda thing you want in normal gameplay. They don't belong in space. They're slow. 

 

 

If we could have ships covered in turrets or drone fighters (they have to look fightery) instead then we'd be rocking. 

[Renegade343]

Well, A huge osprey's good and all; But that's the kinda thing you want in normal gameplay. They don't belong in space. They're slow. 

Carriers kind of fit their name. You ever see them spawn their Locust Drones? Annoying little things. 

[Kalenath]

Because robotics are the way of the future.

 

Or they don't have ENOUGH people to throw out into space like the Grineer do.

[AriusMain]

Agreed

[Institute-Marksman]

Friggates, carriers... They're the names of ship classes. 

 

 

When I first read that the corpus had these, I thought we could use the archwings to fight small corpus ships between 15 and 40 meters (maybe bigger for some types) Instead I was greated by an osprey three times the size of me. 

 

 

Well, A huge osprey's good and all; But that's the kinda thing you want in normal gameplay. They don't belong in space. They're slow. 

 

 

If we could have ships covered in turrets or drone fighters (they have to look fightery) instead then we'd be rocking. 

Kindof agree with you, seeing those names is somewhat weird. Maybe we can have something that is a little more 'drone ship'-like, instead of recycling an existing enemy.

Made a thread about it a while ago.

The Corpus ZOA, a Space Proxy shaped like a mechanical/technological squid. Has multiple applications like mining, cargo hauling, but also offensive uses. ZOA's make a very low-pitch noise compared to MOA's.

Mining/Cargo ZOA 

Equipped with a Mid-range Quanta system and a belt with Corpus barrels. Cargo ZOA's can carry a large orange container with their tentacles. Cargo ZOA's can be boarded and hacked, and are harmless.

Shield: 500

Robotic: 1000

Combat ZOA

A ZOA half the size of Cargo ZOA's equipped with an extended Flux Rifle system, these ZOA are found guarding Cargo ZOA's and patrolling areas.

Shield: 1000

Robotic: 700

Salvager ZOA

Slightly larger then the Combat ZOA and true to the Corpus motto that everything has a price, these proxies scour debri fields for anything that has any value. Armed with a short-range Spectre system. Uses tentacles to grab items of value, may grab and shoot Tenno. Usually found in groups of three.

Shield:700

Robotic:500

Carrier ZOA

Based on the Carrier Drone, this ZOA holds a number Leechers similar to those of a Leech Osprey. Drains the player of Energy and Shield. Can be unattached by boosting your Arcwing and then rolling left or right.

Amprex ZOA

Outfitted with an Amprex system, this small ZOA electrocutes any enemies close enough.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Institute-Marksman

[Somedude1000]

Because the ospreys are placeholders for corpus space enemies I guess

[Innocent_Flower]

Archwing is currently a disappointing minigame that's pretty detached from the main game. I'm sure DE will make the wing game better but as it stands; You can completely ignore it. Why have DE spent so many resources on an experimental minigame we can ignore?

 

Well, We can salvage it. I kinda hope this was DE's plan from the beginning and they've only separated it so much from the main game because of how alpha it is. 

 

Archwing uses in normal missions; 

- Fighting past defences to board a ship at the start of a mission. 

- Fighting past defences to leave a ship at the end of a mission. 

- Moving from one asteroid to another, possibly carrying data

- Moving from one ship to another, Possibly during an invasion. 

- Moving across the surface of a low gravity planet to get from one base to another. In this, you could have ground troops. 

 

To do such a thing, We'd probably need to ensure that everyone has an archwing. (or maybe a dargyn, those things are cool) As such, there is still the archwing mission. Possible changes include

Everyone gets a basic archwing, the archwing mission is merely to get a more powerful archwing. 

or

The archwing is a very early quest  that the player gets upon finishing vor's prize. The archwing is very quick to build. 

 

 

When appropriate, use wing enemies on foot sections and foot enemies on wing sections. Be it A large flying mini-boss sent down to harass the on-foot tenno or a ship's hangar of enemies that you, winged, might want to clear before landing. Maybe some soldiers and tanks/guns in the wastelands between bases. Maybe those trenchruns might have a lot of infantry on the floor. Maybe you're that infantry on the floor during someone else's trenchrun? Maybe half your team is in space, trying to shoot down the corpus dropships that come for you. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[-Upgreid-]

It's not a matter of salvage. It's a new release. Think of it as Warframe 2.0. This is basically as primitive as the new release, but they have more resources to work with.

Way back then, almost exactly two years ago, there was one tileset, two factions, and about 30 items total. I'm sure DE wants to do what you suggest, but first they need to stabilize the Archwing system.

Edit: I apologize, misread the post. I'd like to see Archwing PvP and Dark Sector nodes. In addition, I'd be a big fan of invasions becoming half Archwing- infiltrating to assist Corpus ships or destroying incoming forces if fighting for the Corpus; Exterminating outside forces or sabotaging the core for the Grineer. Then you'd enter the ships. You could even fly between ships, or fly to extract. The possibilities are endless.

Edited October 27, 2014 by UpgradeInProgress

[Buzkyl]

Archwing is currently a disappointing minigame that's pretty detached from the main game. I'm sure DE will make the wing game better but as it stands; You can completely ignore it. Why have DE spent so many resources on an experimental minigame we can ignore?

 

Well, We can salvage it. I kinda hope this was DE's plan from the beginning and they've only separated it so much from the main game because of how alpha it is. 

 

Archwing uses in normal missions; 

- Fighting past defences to board a ship at the start of a mission. 

- Fighting past defences to leave a ship at the end of a mission. 

- Moving from one asteroid to another, possibly carrying data

- Moving from one ship to another, Possibly during an invasion. 

- Moving across the surface of a low gravity planet to get from one base to another. In this, you could have ground troops. 

 

To do such a thing, We'd probably need to ensure that everyone has an archwing. (or maybe a dargyn, those things are cool) As such, there is still the archwing mission. Possible changes include

Everyone gets a basic archwing, the archwing mission is merely to get a more powerful archwing. 

or

The archwing is a very early quest  that the player gets upon finishing vor's prize. The archwing is very quick to build. 

 

 

When appropriate, use wing enemies on foot sections and foot enemies on wing sections. Be it A large flying mini-boss sent down to harass the on-foot tenno or a ship's hangar of enemies that you, winged, might want to clear before landing. Maybe some soldiers and tanks/guns in the wastelands between bases. Maybe those trenchruns might have a lot of infantry on the floor. Maybe you're that infantry on the floor during someone else's trenchrun? 

 

Archwing is currently a disappointing minigame that's pretty detached from the main game. I'm sure DE will make the wing game better but as it stands; You can completely ignore it. Why have DE spent so many resources on an experimental minigame we can ignore?

 

Well, We can salvage it. I kinda hope this was DE's plan from the beginning and they've only separated it so much from the main game because of how alpha it is. 

 

Archwing uses in normal missions; 

- Fighting past defences to board a ship at the start of a mission. 

- Fighting past defences to leave a ship at the end of a mission. 

- Moving from one asteroid to another, possibly carrying data

- Moving from one ship to another, Possibly during an invasion. 

- Moving across the surface of a low gravity planet to get from one base to another. In this, you could have ground troops. 

 

To do such a thing, We'd probably need to ensure that everyone has an archwing. (or maybe a dargyn, those things are cool) As such, there is still the archwing mission. Possible changes include

Everyone gets a basic archwing, the archwing mission is merely to get a more powerful archwing. 

or

The archwing is a very early quest  that the player gets upon finishing vor's prize. The archwing is very quick to build. 

 

 

When appropriate, use wing enemies on foot sections and foot enemies on wing sections. Be it A large flying mini-boss sent down to harass the on-foot tenno or a ship's hangar of enemies that you, winged, might want to clear before landing. Maybe some soldiers and tanks/guns in the wastelands between bases. Maybe those trenchruns might have a lot of infantry on the floor. Maybe you're that infantry on the floor during someone else's trenchrun? 

 

 

While i fully agree it'd be nice to blend some archwing gamemodes into normal play. I disagree with you saying it being a "minigame", I've enjoyed my archwing experience so far and i'm fairly certain others do as well.

 

And in technical terms, you can ignore the other modes as well, unless you absolutely must complete the node. No gamemode should be forced onto you, however you should feel compelled to do it. Archwing certainly has left som good impressions for most of the forums i've seen.