Seriously, Stop Making Weapons With No Ads (Aim Down Sight)

[VETTEL]

it's not a matter of requiring people to use aiming. i like the immersion it offers.

having played doom and quake when they were brand spanking new... and never having played a counter strike past the original mod for halflife or any of the new call of duty style games... do i need aiming? absolutely not. do i like it? yes!

and since it does exist within this game, i'd like for it to exist on all the weapons. 

while i understand your point, i'm not here to "be the best" i'm here for immersion and fun.

I understand and concede to having more choice for players such as yourself who prefer fun in a for fun game like Warframe. The simple solution was already mentioned but utilising too many key bindings is no issue on PC but for consoles.

 

Consoles especially need ADS and this isn't a PvP game, so it doesn't hurt to have a little helping hand with ADS when you're not being competitive to begin with.  This is coming from someone who used to be a frequent Quake player.

 

Also, for some weapons, it's only fair that steadying your aim gives you tighter spread at longer ranges.  Presentation-wise, it would be silly to have an automatic rifle in Warframe shoot like a laser, or have an arbitrary recoil-control difficulty curve in a PvE shooter.  You're not trying to take out individual targets like in Quake or CS:GO. You're trying to mow down hordes of enemies fast and efficiently.

I would agree with your points if you didn't miss my argument of basics applying to all games of this type, competition is not relevant. Inconsistency is the main issue for Warframe as it has an identity crisis. It struggles to want to be something of everything with mechanics using different sets of rules only to confuse newer players.

 

People who prefer aim down sights automatically handicap themselves against the recent AI accuracy change without many options to counter it. However, the examples I referenced demonstrate how to position your character around corners and shoot without being shot at. I also did not request recoil to be added, it was mentioned for depth this game lacks. Lastly, you mention a horde style gameplay and efficiency but headshot mechanics exist in the shooting aspect of Warframe and deals 4x the critical damage. Landing multiple headshots in quick consistent succession on top of having the right team setup is the most efficient way to deal with enemies.

 

Otherwise I'm in agreement with the issue for consoles as this is one genre gamepads struggle with. I would personally prefer simpler actions with less keys involved for this style of game.

 

It's interesting how the only examples of not ADSing that Vetter uses come from stupid arcade shooters where you can't ADS in the first place.

Warframe is obviously Arma where you account for the smallest details down to wind direction and speed. Those stupid arcade shooters are 15+ years old, hosting some of the largest tournaments in history, and still topping Warframe on Steam, nearly the largest platform for gaming in entirety. Steam Charts

 

TL;DR: Warframe needs to decide whether it wants to be fully MMO and gear based or have any semblance of skill in it's shooting portion. I vote for fully MMO to remain casual fun and better explained simpler mechanics to help newer players.

[00zau]

Well honestly I think it's more a thing for consoles, the limited buttons and what not.

Last time I said I'd heard that someone got super butthurt about 'PC gamers hating on PS4' or something. Apparently there are still unused buttons on the controllers.

[Liminal]

a Gun could replicate Platinum and spray it everywhere and i wouldn't use it if i couldn't use FineAim.

I guess I'd tolerate no ADS in that particular case :P

[taiiat]

Steam Charts

 

TL;DR: Warframe needs to decide whether it wants to be fully MMO and gear based or have any semblance of skill in it's shooting portion. I vote for fully MMO to remain casual fun and better explained simpler mechanics to help newer players.

- Warframe is in the top range of the Charts for Steam, and only a fraction of the Player Base plays it on Steam.

looking at steam stats to compare all games isn't a scientific metric in even the slightest.

 

things like Counter Strike are Steam Exclusives, so anyone that's playing it, is using Steam.

 

that's not the case for the majority of Video Games that exist. while i have little love for MOBA's, League of Legends has ridiculous player counts. yet it's not on Steam.

what now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Steam is the biggest Digital Distribution platform, but Digital Distribution still pales in customers compared to all of the sales.

 

 

- there's no reason why Warframe can't be both. it can have some Skill aspects that allow you to get the most out of Equipment, but have the systems accessible to those that perhaps are terrible Marksmen.

Edited January 16, 2015 by taiiat

[[DE]Momaw]

All I and many other people ask is that you use the secondary fire keybind and let us use M2 to ADS.

 

+1.

[VETTEL]

- Warframe is in the top range of the Charts for Steam, and only a fraction of the Player Base plays it on Steam.

looking at steam stats to compare all games isn't a scientific metric in even the slightest.

 

things like Counter Strike are Steam Exclusives, so anyone that's playing it, is using Steam.

 

that's not the case for the majority of Video Games that exist. while i have little love for MOBA's, League of Legends has ridiculous player counts. yet it's not on Steam.

what now? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Steam is the biggest Digital Distribution platform, but Digital Distribution still pales in customers compared to all of the sales.

 

 

- there's no reason why Warframe can't be both. it can have some Skill aspects that allow you to get the most out of Equipment, but have the systems accessible to those that perhaps are terrible Marksmen.

 

Valve Launches Steam Discovery Update, Personalised Shopping 100 million active users disagree, Steam isn't the Google juggernaut multinational of gaming for no reason. Retail numbers have also been in decline with digital distribution still growing. I'm very aware of exclusives like League of Legends, War Thunder, and World of Tanks posting impressive numbers, however that was not my sarcastic remarks intent. ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯

 

I already spoke about using both control schemes earlier, it's essentially up to DE the amount of balancing they can address. Their recent changes of multiple commands on one button actually drove me away from gamepad use. The current form of inconsistency and generally focusing on immediate issues rather than core ones doesn't indicate to me they want to delve into skill based gameplay. It requires changing whole portions of the game to facilitate more player control, for example adding cool downs which the community vehemently hated. Regardless of their Unreal background, the additions lately have mainly been piling on numbers and enemies that equate to cheese them before they cheese you.

 

To reiterate, I don't believe anyone bothered watching the tutorials which help with playing around the games problems while the developers figure out the direction they want to take this game. This is getting off topic so I will leave you with clarifying I support having additional choices for players of all preferences, it's DE's choice whether they do or not as well. Will await with silent optimism to see if a proper gamepad or standardised aim down sights support is delivered.

Edited January 16, 2015 by VETTEL

[RealPandemonium]

We really need to be able to aim down the sights if we want to.  I like these weapons but would love them if I could sight them.

[Holeypaladin]

Personally, I really like some of the secondary fire options for weapons.  Quanta for example, I'd take its grenades over its secondary fire any day.  Phage I'd take its cone narrowing rather than trying to aim it... it's a shotgun, after all.

 

Some of the secondary fire attacks suck, though, like mutalist quanta and paracyst.  I'd definitely prefer aiming over secondary fire on those guns.  But those guns are mastery fodder tier so I just rank them up and sell them.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Indeed, 1 to OPs topic. All these weapons without ironsights are just mastery fodder for me, I cannot defend sacrificing long range accuracy for any damage really.

[RealPandemonium]

We really need to be able to aim down the sights if we want to.  I like these weapons but would love them if I could sight them.

[xethier]

 

-snip off topic-

 

I already spoke about using both control schemes earlier, it's essentially up to DE the amount of balancing they can address. Their recent changes of multiple commands on one button actually drove me away from gamepad use. The current form of inconsistency and generally focusing on immediate issues rather than core ones doesn't indicate to me they want to delve into skill based gameplay. It requires changing whole portions of the game to facilitate more player control, for example adding cool downs which the community vehemently hated. Regardless of their Unreal background, the additions lately have mainly been piling on numbers and enemies that equate to cheese them before they cheese you.

 

To reiterate, I don't believe anyone bothered watching the tutorials which help with playing around the games problems while the developers figure out the direction they want to take this game. This is getting off topic so I will leave you with clarifying I support having additional choices for players of all preferences, it's DE's choice whether they do or not as well. Will await with silent optimism to see if a proper gamepad or standardised aim down sights support is delivered.

 

On the contrary, I think this is directly on-topic. this is supposedly the year of Warfram3-Quality right? These issues speak directly to quality as most gamers would define it. (apologies to those of you who don't)

 

Control schema are about as quality-defined as you can get!

Edited January 16, 2015 by xethier

[taiiat]

The current form of inconsistency and generally focusing on immediate issues rather than core ones doesn't indicate to me they want to delve into skill based gameplay. It requires changing whole portions of the game to facilitate more player control

 

Regardless of their Unreal background, the additions lately have mainly been piling on numbers and enemies that equate to cheese them before they cheese you.

what other option is there? if Gameplay has no Skill or competence involved in it...

what's left?

 

and then, how do we 'remove' that?

have no Enemies, just timers and reward pools, so we can shoot at walls?

 

this is a Genre that relies on Skill, Knowledge, and Competence. having the game not be about that seems downright impossible, unless this becomes a movie + walking a Character.... which then, why is it a game and not a movie.

 

 

 

either way, Fine Aim is critical. 'Hip Firing' has plenty of uses in Warframe as well, but even just the Sensitivity difference between Freelook and FineAim is important.

there's no way in hell i'm going to adjust my Sensitivity so that it feels like i'm aiming. because then it'll take almost two seconds to turn around and since Warframe is a Fast Paced game, i'll just be dead constantly because i can't move my Camera.

 

sure, if i only plan on pointing in the general direction of the Enemy and hoping it gets hit, or i only plan on standing on top of a box while i shoot explosives at a Vortex in Infested Defense - then i can get away with hampering myself.

having FineAim or some sort of sighting system in a game by far doesn't mean everyone should (and i damn well hope they don't) walk around with their face in their gun all the time.

but that doesn't make it any less useful.

 

ultimately, if Digital Extremes doesn't want me to use their fancy Weapons with multiple functions by refusing to allow us to use FineAim, fine.

i won't use them.

so by not allowing me to FineAim, something that isn't complicated to have, completely invalidates some of the Development Time. 

sounds like a good plan to me. it's not like creating content for the game has the intention for Players to use it and experience it.

[(PSN)Pharen]

Well honestly I think it's more a thing for consoles, the limited buttons and what not.

Not really, I have spare buttons not mapped on my DS4. There's no reason why a "switch to secondary mode" button could not exist.

[Fari]

Personally I still enjoy the weapons quite a bit, and prefer a secondary fire to being able to aim down sights.

But considering the game has both in key bindings, I see no reason that it shouldn't be able to aim down sight as well as alt fire.

[CHAIT0]

Bumping the thread, This needs more attention, DE needs to separate secondary fire from the zoom option. i want to be able to look down the sight of my weapons again.

[Khallisto]

Panthera is fine the way it is without ADS, it's meant to be a close range weapon so there's no real reason to use sights.

Close range or melee? Unless you're using only the Panthera, I don't understand why should I need another melee weapon in my loadout.

 

I know there's a lot of good players using only melee weapons in this game but to me, Warframe looks like a game where it is easier to use ranged weapons in ground and melee in space (no sense, should be the other way). Personally, I only use the fast melee attacks or kestrel/glaive. Full melee only in Valkyr and that isn't so common.

 

TL;DR: Aiming down sights makes you worse at all shooting games and everyone should stop using it.

I don't like the Rambo style, so I really prefer to slow down, aim and shoot. My secondary aim button is Q (gear at C, but every gear slot is at numpad) and my shoulder cam changer is at TAB. Works fine to me since I don't need to move my left hand too much. 

 

About shooting games, I don't play any. I like the semi-stealth style of classes as SWTOR's Imperial Agent (good times), Firefall's Nighthawk and Raptor (my preferred frames) and all frames we have here. I came  from fantasy mmorpgs, mostly point and click, because I don't like PvP, specially the usual PvP style of shooting games.

 

Personal taste and this is my playstyle so, to me, ADS absence is a bad thing. Weapons without ADS are just mastery fodder.

[CHAIT0]

Come on DE, secondary fire was a feature we where asking for since the release of the paris. we didnt know it was going to get rid of something else to give us what we wanted. come on DE, just separate the 2 bindings.

[Haif]

I tried binding alt-fire to my middle mouse button, only to discover that the Quanta apparently is utterly incapable of aiming even when there is no button conflict.

 

DE please give these weapons the basic capability that every gun deserves.

[Bobtm]

I honestly never realized this was a problem people had.  Guess that shows how little I worry about ADS'ing.

 

Anways I'm 100% for this change, it's something that would very clearly help a lot of people enjoy the game better without causing anyone any harm.  It's the literal best kind of change.

 

Edit;  I did forget to note;  I definitely would prefer the ability to leave the control type as is, meaning that I can leave Secondary Fire and Aim bound to RMB and keep utilizing these weapons without being forced to tie Secondary Fire to a different key.  I'm not even marginally short on keys, but I just dig the feel of it as is.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Bobtm

[NocturneOfSolace]

Panthera is fine the way it is without ADS, it's meant to be a close range weapon so there's no real reason to use sights.

Same with many of the other weapons, their alt-fires forces you to be closer than normal weapons to use them effectively

Except there's literally no reason to ever use primary fire with it without ADS, so no

[spaceninjaaaa]

I have a solution - Why not make the mouse wheel button click a firing mode switch? That will let us aim down sights. Nobody even uses mouse wheel click.

And maybe all weapons can have a firing mode, ie rifles can switch between semi auto & full auto?

[Krotalon]

All I want is an option to actually switch fire mode, allowing us to zoom with M2. I don't want to fire with a button that isn't M1.

[Telogor]

@Hitmonho I use M3 for quick melee.

 

Besides, having to switch between fire modes would be too slow for Warframe

[(PSN)MrNishi]

The Quanta like most of Warframe's "continuous beam" weapons is unusable because you cannot zoom???

The continuous beam weapons are more of aim beam(s) at target in sweeping motion.

Are you players aiming down sight with the Amprex, Glaxion, AOE Phage, etc...

I could understand if DE reverted continous beam weapons to fountains of numbers rather than the current delayed damage (sum).

Edit: After typing above: I am assuming Glaxion, Spectra (requires 2 shots to even see beam extended), Amprex, etc.... are unusable by the same people that need Zoom on Quanta..

But I do agree we should be able to bind Zoom and alternate fire separately. (I also feel we should be able to bind Melee finishers separately from melee key.)

(Coming from a Console player that cannot successfully separate Quick-melee and Melee key binds...gives error about combo buttons cannot be separated.)

At least giving players the option of separating and customizing zoom, alt fire, finishers, etc... could be made a player option rather than mandatory.

Edited January 18, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[XxMLGhaxProxX]

Bumping again this is litteraly the only reason I havent gotten the buzlok yet. The weapon is pretty much made for me but I cant handle not being able to ADS.