How Do You Even Play Squishies?

[ExaBytes]

Like the title states: How are you supposed to even play squishy Warframes?

So I'm a Rhino player, I've stuck with Rhino ever since I acquired him. I like being able to run around without dying 200 times a mission like I did with Excalibur and others.

 

 

Recently I've picked up squishier Warframes like Ash and Nyx. I even went back and potatoed my Excal because he got the massive buff. But they just DIE SO FAST! I get that most of them have survivability skills Ex:Nyx's Chaos, Ash's Smokescreen, but that wasn't enough to keep me from getting my butt shot off by like 492 crewmen.

 

TL;DR: How do you play squishy Warframes without dying so 200 times/mission? Help would be much appreciated.

 

Edit: Thanks for the replies, guys. It really helps. Thanks. However, some of these mods you guys mention, I haven't acquired yet. I do not have Rage, Quick Thinking, Life Strike, or some of the other essential survivability mods. Please just keep that in mind. I am only a Rank 5 noob.

 

Edit 2: Also, I feel like Valkyr has like no range on her Paralysis.......I won't be able to stun enemies if they're firing from a distance....I'm probably doing it wrong?

Edited January 27, 2015 by ExaBytes

[Sixty5]

Firstly you need to know how to build your defenses.

First and foremost you have to figure out what stats are best to buff, building armour on a frame with 15 base isn't going to get you very far.

Second is choosing what to build.

Do you go shields + Hp or hp and armour or even Energy Rage and Quick thinking

My general rule of thumb is as follows

On a melee frame with decent armour, build armour and Hp

On a frame with hard cc (stuns staggers or any other full disable) go with Shields and Hp

And for stuff with no/soft cc flow + rage and quick thinking work well.

That is just a rough guideline however so test stuff out.

Playstyle wise, you want to avoid getting hit, within reason.

Moving quickly, abusing cover and Los, as well as throwing some cc powers around are all a good start.

From there you start to learn real positioning, getting a feel for where you should and shouldn't be at any given time.

If you are playing squishies, the biggest thing to remember is to play smart. Duck in and out of combat with copters, give your shields time to regen, think before you charge out with 5 shots left in your Supra clip.

And practice makes perfect

[NyxCrab]

Keep moving, stay out of the line fire, maybe use cover, etc. 

[(PSN)LK-GriM]

Holy Trinity that was a lot of replies. Will do my best to utilize these points. Thanks guys

Haven't tried going into T4 yet. Only have a conclave rating of 900. Don't know if I'm strong enough

Ok let me say this I've personally taken Ash into a solo t4 survival for 44 minutes before I had to extract. Ash is an amazing frame just requires a different play style.

[ExaBytes]

Firstly you need to know how to build your defenses.

First and foremost you have to figure out what stats are best to buff, building armour on a frame with 15 base isn't going to get you very far.

Second is choosing what to build.

Do you go shields + Hp or hp and armour or even Energy Rage and Quick thinking

My general rule of thumb is as follows

On a melee frame with decent armour, build armour and Hp

On a frame with hard cc (stuns staggers or any other full disable) go with Shields and Hp

And for stuff with no/soft cc flow + rage and quick thinking work well.

That is just a rough guideline however so test stuff out.

Playstyle wise, you want to avoid getting hit, within reason.

Moving quickly, abusing cover and Los, as well as throwing some cc powers around are all a good start.

From there you start to learn real positioning, getting a feel for where you should and shouldn't be at any given time.

If you are playing squishies, the biggest thing to remember is to play smart. Duck in and out of combat with copters, give your shields time to regen, think before you charge out with 5 shots left in your Supra clip.

And practice makes perfect

I see, thanks. And I don't have rage or quick thinking but I am trying to farm for them.

[7grims]

See, this is why I keep saying rhino is bad, very very bad, and he is for noobs.

 

Playing non-thank frames, requires:

- strategy

- intelligence

- not staying still when the pretty enemies shoot ur face

 

But it's really about using all those utility abilities, that become way way better then being thanky, or even having high damage powers.

[DJ_Redwire]

I'm running Redirection, Intensify, Flow, Vitality, Transient Fortitude, Streamline, Vigor, and Stretch for my Excal. This is my javelin build. I don't have a blind build because I need more duration mods. 

 

Yeah the impression I'm getting here is you're trying much too hard to tank damage with frames that just aren't designed to take it in the first place - half of those QoL mods on there are highly unnecessary. If you need all of those in order to not die then you're just not accustomed to playing frames/styles that do not involve tanking a ton of damage to the face. One of Warframe's unique characteristics is the average amount of a player's mobility and speed. If you're not going to use it, I'd recommend sticking to Rhino - other frames just aren't for you.

[ensignvidiot]

I'm running Redirection, Intensify, Flow, Vitality, Transient Fortitude, Streamline, Vigor, and Stretch for my Excal. This is my javelin build. I don't have a blind build because I need more duration mods. 

 

Rank em up and Excal will be fairly sturdy.

 

Even with the duration hit on Blind, its still useful to give you a moment to breathe. 

 

In warframe: Mobility=Life, if you can keep moving, sliding, flipping, dodge-rolling, and melee-blocking... you will survive.

 

Swapping that Vigor for Natural Talent will speed up Radial Javalin (which removes its biggest weakness) and that will allow you to stun surrounding enemies and get them to stop shooting you.

 

 

 

Oh, and a bit on Dodging: When using zoom while shooting... if you tap shift (your sprint key/button) you will roll quickly in whatever direction you where moving in. So if you where backpedaling, you'd backflip away. The Roll/flip animations does, from time to time, allow you to dodge rockets and projectiles, and Enemy AoE Effects and weapons.

 

 

You need to find a Rhythm for you that involves using your abilities and your mobility to keep alive.

[iuki.]

Also add that I use life strike as well, a must have mod for me to help with loss of life through either direct hits or gradual decreases from dots; this applies to all my frames, tanky or not.

 

Edit. oh and one more thing....all my frames have max vit/redirection. I have no clue how all these popular pro youtubers and guide makers survive without these in higher end content. Most recommend only using vit but in my experience an increase in sheilds (other than valk) is mandatory for me and increases my survivability by a considerable amount. Perhaps I am not so skilled, idk...vit and redirection is first mods I slap on a frame.

Edited January 27, 2015 by fizbit

[Sixty5]

I see, thanks. And I don't have rage or quick thinking but I am trying to farm for them.

I'm not a huge fan of energy Tanking myself, I'd rather use said energy to cast and save myself.

Nova is probably the best example of a frame to use it on, given that she lacks an escape power or any hard cc.

Plus her regular defences are paper thin and she has a 150 base energy pool.

[Maou]

rolling helps

[(PSN)theelix]

Like the title states: How are you supposed to even play squishy Warframes?

So I'm a Rhino player, I've stuck with Rhino ever since I acquired him. I like being able to run around without dying 200 times a mission like I did with Excalibur and others.

 

 

Recently I've picked up squishier Warframes like Ash and Nyx. I even went back and potatoed my Excal because he got the massive buff. But they just DIE SO FAST! I get that most of them have survivability skills Ex:Nyx's Chaos, Ash's Smokescreen, but that wasn't enough to keep me from getting my butt shot off by like 492 crewmen.

 

TL;DR: How do you play squishy Warframes without dying so 200 times/mission? Help would be much appreciated.

Rage + Quick Thinking + Reflex guard. 

 

Been running around with 300/300 Excalibur with 61 Armor. I never run out of energy, I rarely die. 

[SquirmyBurrito]

TL;DR: How do you play squishy Warframes without dying so 200 times/mission? Help would be much appreciated.

 

The first and most important step in learning how to play squishier frames is to think of how you usually play Rhino, and do the opposite of that. Instead of running in and trying to facetank enemy fire you need to learn how to position yourself behind cover. This is a lesson you'll have to learn eventually even when playing as Rhino since Rhino's tanking abilities falls off hard in higher level missions. My Loki tends to die less than all the Rhino Primes I see running around purely because I do not take the same risks they do. 

 

I recommend grabbing a Loki (not Loki Prime) and try playing through the star chart without using your abilities. You'll die a lot at first, but after a while you'll learn how to avoid damage. That's how I learned.

 

Oh, and Ash isn't squishy... have you seen his health?

[LisRestall]

"Gun and Run" the usual playstyle for squishies. I'm not really sure how to mod-up Excal but I do sure know how to mod it for "farming" :^)

I'm not sure how you even die with Ash with his emergency invi and invulnerability under Bladestorm animation. Same goes with Nyx, the Queen of CC.

 

Anyhow, maxed Vitality + Rage and some weapon that heals 25% HP per proc works for me on Ash. While Nyx due to her large energy pool, I slap in a P. Flow and Quick Thinking for 600+ energy = 1440+ HP.

[ExaBytes]

The first and most important step in learning how to play squishier frames is to think of how you usually play Rhino, and do the opposite of that. Instead of running in and trying to facetank enemy fire you need to learn how to position yourself behind cover. This is a lesson you'll have to learn eventually even when playing as Rhino since Rhino's tanking abilities falls off hard in higher level missions. My Loki tends to die less than all the Rhino Primes I see running around purely because I do not take the same risks they do. 

 

I recommend grabbing a Loki (not Loki Prime) and try playing through the star chart without using your abilities. You'll die a lot at first, but after a while you'll learn how to avoid damage. That's how I learned.

 

Oh, and Ash isn't squishy... have you seen his health?

That sounds hardXD. But thanks for the suggestion and I'll try it.

[ExaBytes]

"Gun and Run" the usual playstyle for squishies. I'm not really sure how to mod-up Excal but I do sure know how to mod it for "farming" :^)

I'm not sure how you even die with Ash with his emergency invi and invulnerability under Bladestorm animation. Same goes with Nyx, the Queen of CC.

 

Anyhow, maxed Vitality + Rage and some weapon that heals 25% HP per proc works for me on Ash. While Nyx due to her large energy pool, I slap in a P. Flow and Quick Thinking for 600+ energy = 1440+ HP.

Are we talking about a potatoed Ash? XD I just tried running a Neptune rescue mission with my Lv20 ash and died 3 times.....

[(PSN)Silverback73]

It's easy. Know your roll, and think about the concept of a power curve, per frame, based on strength of your enemies. Rhino's climbs fast and sharp and starts to level off a bit as enemies get stronger. Nyx is a longer climb but many will tell you they love her once the game gets really challenging. Driving high level enemies insane so they kill each other and absorbing all incoming damage like a black hole so you can reverse-nuke them is more than just a bit awesome; it's infinitely scalable.

[burnoutsniper]

Nyx (for me) has probably one of the best frames in terms of survivability simply because of her skillset and hardly requires any damage mods to detract from adding in utility mods.

 

This is the build I run with (mods the same where they are at) with Nyx Prime instead of regular Nyx http://goo.gl/xWR4V4

[SquirmyBurrito]

That sounds hardXD. But thanks for the suggestion and I'll try it.

 

It is easier when you're starting fresh. Trying to unlearn all the bad habits you get when you play Rhino early on is pretty hard. That's why I think Loki should never have been removed as a starter.

[Un1337ninj4]

Can't say much for Ash, but if we're talkin' Ember it's all about maintaining awareness of enemy locations and maximum kill efficiency.

[LisRestall]

Are we talking about a potatoed Ash? XD I just tried running a Neptune rescue mission with my Lv20 ash and died 3 times.....

If you're ranking frames while unlocking nodes then that would have more difficulty especially on non-potato'd frames but it's still not a reason to die easily, Ash still has high armor and high HP with an emergency invi. Something is definitely wrong on how you play and needs fixing.

[Chhkt]

The thing with Nyx is that you take advantage of the enemy and their strengths. Mind Control is great for use on Eximii like Arctics and Guardians because they slow enemies and recharge your shields. Heavies and Bombards are also prime targets for MC when there aren't eximus units around.

 

Chaos is one of those CC bombs you are to be strategic in using because you can't recast. Generally i run enemy radar aura on her so I always know when I'm getting best use of my Chaos ability.

 

Absorb is the "oh crap" skill. I don't use it for damage whatsoever. If you need a second to recharge shields or need to hug an objective or downed player this is also a good skill to use. If Chaos is already cast, you can use Absorb to draw aggro. 

 

Other than that, fly, jump, roll, run. Keep moving and use cover.

[CheeseHasLeafs]

Know when to disengage. Smoke Screen might buff your melee and make you untargetable, but it doesn't make you unkillable, and it doesn't make you immune to knockdown. Additionally, it doesn't have a very long duration. Sometimes, you have to use it as an escape ability. Pop Smokescreen, Teleport, then squat for a few moments to let your shield recharge. 

 

You can't lock horns with everything in the game and expect to win. Ash is about moving too fast for the enemy to hit you. That is the entire point of Teleport. There is a reason Teleport allows Finisher animations. Finisher animations make you invulnerable to any damage, even DOT Slash/Toxin. So all you need to do is Teleport to an enemy, do a Finisher, and during that finisher aim at another enemy. When the animation is done, Teleport again immediately. Rinse and repeat. Basically a pocket Bladestorm. This, combined with Smokescreen and Bladestorm make Ash THE best solo frame. 

[Bobtm]

 I recommend grabbing a Loki (not Loki Prime) and try playing through the star chart without using your abilities. You'll die a lot at first, but after a while you'll learn how to avoid damage. That's how I learned.

 

This is outstandingly good advice here.  A trial by fire is a really good way to learn, as the learning becomes a necessity.

   ______________

 

Another thing that you can try, ExaBytes, is to build a Bleeding Dragon Key and then equip it (it's a type of gear).  This item will reduce your HP total to 25% of what it would otherwise be.  Think of it as a training weight.  I used to run one a lot back when I was playing early on... granted many of those runs it was accidental because I forgot to unequip it.  But the results are good either way.

[Vallerian]

Coptering + Life Strike keeps me alive  as an Ember main

Edited January 27, 2015 by Vallerian

[SlapClown]

Also with Rhino If who you really like to use use iron when you really need it I have iron skin set ..

On my Rhino  i can tank like a champ in t4 but it really is useless when you really start getting 35-40 mins in to the run then its more for not getting one shot ..

But like others have said and me you have to keep moving and also remember iron skin draws argo..

  People like me and other have learned to by using glass cannons so when you use rhino ash or valkry it is almost god mod to us  take your time