February 13Th: Community Hot Topics!

[Mak_Gohae]

 

The Core Issue

 

I fine with not level mod to max the second i acquire them so i dont care what you do with them.

As long as their only source is not only one game type alone, im fine with whatever.

 

 

Friendly Fire

 

Never add this.

Most of the deaths from explosive weapons come from lag or people getting in front of me.

I mean, you just showed that the Torid gets most kills and with the expanded cloud plus firestorm... that one dude with it is just going to not be letting anyone move.

 

Upcoming Conclave changes

 

The only reason i would play this is cause of the sigils.

Can you wear them outside of PVP? I dont remember. If you can, yes, if not, then no.

[Telogor]

Daggers need to be more dagger-like.  Right now, they're like tiny little swords  They need to focus on getting insane damage on a single target.  Homing Fang has good combos with bad hitboxes.  Pointed Wind has the kind of damage multipliers that the daggers should have, but it can't hit if there's any sort of incline at all and can't hit things that are low to the ground.

 

Daggers need to have the highest damage per hit of all melee weapons to counter the fact that they have no reach, have bad hitboxes, and have poor mobility.  To make sure that's not overpowered, you might consider making all attacks with a dagger be able to hit only a single target.

 

On to dual daggers: they are in the same boat, but are even worse than the single daggers.  They have awkward combos with, again, bad hitboxes and poor mobility, but they also have no damage multipliers on any attacks.  They need to have a lot less damage per hit than the single daggers (due to not being able to concentrate force on a single weapon) and have better attack speed (because you're using both arms).  Again, attacks need to be focused on either one or two enemies because daggers will never be good CC melee weapons.

 

Both types of weapons need a much better directional air melee.  The distance traveled, the hitbox, and the damage all need to be increased.  To not make this a huge buff, they should have their coptering ability reduced somewhat.

 

For jump attacks, both weapons need a huge buff.  They provide no CC with the slam, so the jump needs to do a crapload of damage.

 

 

----------------------------

 

 

Now, about the Rakta Ballistica...

 

I'm a huge fan of both the Ballistica and its Rakta variant.  However, their usability and damage is bad at best.  How should this be fixed?

 

First, a damage buff is necessary on each weapon.  Their burst-fire DPS is barely better than the Lato's, and they use far more ammo.  In addition, make the burst fire use only 2 ammo.  This would drop the ammo consumption to much more reasonable levels and preserve the unique traits of the weapon.

 

Second, the charge shot needs to be revamped, because there is currently only one reason to use it, and that's ammo conservation.  Give it a high crit chance, high crit multiplier, and innate punch through.  If that makes the Ballistica too much like a pocket bow, you could give the charge shot a 5m explosion instead.  The explosion would have to scale with mods and elementals, or it would be as bad as a Thunderbolt bow.

 

In relation to other pistols, I think the Ballistica should be about as good as a single Furis.  The Rakta should be at least as good as the Secura Dual Cestras.

 

If these buffs would make the Rakta Ballistica OP because it also has the Viral burst, change Red Veil's Viral burst to Fire.  It makes more sense for the syndicate and would provide good CC.  However, this might require a slight buff to the Red Veil's weapon augments.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Telogor

[akira_him]

the problem of Rakta Ballistica is that Bllistica is a bad weapon in the first place, please buff them both to justify the charge mechanics

 

nekros, we got a bunch of threads about SoTD's AI, please read those

Edited February 14, 2015 by akira_him

[Gilmaesh]

-About the core, i don't really care about the drop rate, and quite frankly i can't really stand how obsessed some players are about them but now we have more people in public survival that leave after 10 min. Before it was easy to find some random squad who wanted a little bit of challenge and fun.

Now we only find those who are all about the cores...

( swap the word core with the word drug, you will see the currents threads in these forum in a new light ^^)

 

-ahhh Friendly fire, always asked by those who troll you already with loky/valkyr/limbo, will never be fun for me, and since our revives are limited, i hope you will stay away from that.

I guess you could make an option for guys who like it, but it will dilute even more the community.

 

-For the nekro, he will always be a desecrate bot if his skills stay like this.

 

-I like a lot the animation of fang but yeah they can't really compare to other weapon damage wise. But i like to wear it.

(seriously, remove or buff stamina a lot and allow us to use the stance and channeling with quick melee)

Edited February 14, 2015 by Gilmaesh

[kelgov]

No friendly fire. if anyone want it, it should only be the one who enable friendly fire receive damage and left others unaffected.

[JJJowhn07]

Friendly Fire

 

No. As if void radiation proc troll killing wasn't bad enough already (as I have done it to a friend and 2 other PUGs).

 

Or IMO, the best way to implement it is to make it into an option in the options menu.

Edited February 14, 2015 by JJJowhn07

[Llyssa]

While Desecrate was the least voted, the recent By the Numbers confirmed a glaringly high amount of Desecrate-spam.

We all know why it was voted up: Players want loot, and don't see a problem with "Press one button for loot" due to the acceptance of Press 4 to Win. As many players within the Nekros Dev Workshop have noted, however, changing his other abilities does virtually nothing to alter this behavior. The RNG nature of the effect and limited window in which to cast it means players have very little time in which to play while spamming it.

 

In short, Nekros is Desecrate-bot, and that's harmful to the game.

 

I'm gonna have to say it AGAIN huh?

 

The recent "By the numbers" proves that desecrate bots constitute less than 2% of nekros players. The numbers average out to about 1 desecrate per minute per nekros online. It is not mathematically possible for the desecrate numbers to be so astoundingly low if even a small fraction of nekros players cast desecrate constantly.... unless you consider casting a skill once per minute "spamming".

 

The skill is fine. Sorry.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Llyssa

[Archwizard]

I'm gonna have to say it AGAIN huh?

 

The recent "By the numbers" proves that desecrate bots constitute less than 2% of nekros players. The numbers average out to about 1 desecrate per minute per nekros online. It is not mathematically possible for the desecrate numbers to be so astoundingly low if even a small fraction of nekros players cast desecrate constantly.... unless you consider casting a skill once per minute "spamming".

 

The skill is fine. Sorry.

 

You really like to hit-and-run on that math, don't you?

 

Although that does bring something to mind. Perhaps for a future CHT, Drew, you could focus on just Desecrate? Player behaviors with it ("I don't use it much" vs "I cast it in bursts, as needed" vs "I cast it as frequently as possible"), how often they use Nekros ("He's my main frame" vs "When I'm farming/playing Survival" vs "I don't have him"), relative enjoyment when using Desecrate ("It fits my playstyle well" vs "It bores me"), etc. The items that give a fuller picture than just "Do you think it's his most problematic skill?" (50/50 split).

Edited February 14, 2015 by Archwizard

[PAX_NL]

Friendly fire;

 

I think friendly fire would be abused way to much by trolling players. Could you imagine playing this game for the first time and getting bladestormed over and over when trying to clear your first planet in a public game?

 

I think it could work in conclave when played in teams or in nightmare mode.

 

Edit: OK wait, no. I want this change. Get my smoke screen build ash with dread despair and hate and start doing public games on boss nodes. Wait in stealth untill they kill the boss and then...  Stalker surprise! :p

 

 

Daggers:

 

I think daggers are ok-ish when it comes to attack speed and damage and such. However I do have one problem with them: stealth attacks take the damage from a single strike and multiply that with a stealth finisher.

Because of this a jat kittag or scindo prime is now the ultimate stealth attack weapon because it can one hit kill way higher level enemies than daggers can.

Someone else already suggested a solution earlier in this thread: Give melee weapons that make sense being stealthy (like daggers) a higher stealth finisher multiplier to compensate for the low one hit damage.

 

Rakta Ballistica:

 

I think the ballistica is not really as powerfull as the other syndicate weapons, but not by a lot. It's ok I guess, although I don't really get why a crossbow isn't silent. When running red veil syndicate missions, being stealthy is very hard to pull off when my two operative buddy's are shooting full auto with what has to be the loudest bow weapon ever made in the sol system. I do know that recent AI changes to them support stealth now, but I still wish this weapon was the stealthy asassin weapon it's made out to be in its description.

Edited February 14, 2015 by PAX_NL

[Slurmageddon]

The Cores thing:

The changes are fine, and it's good that farming them now takes us to places outside of thevoid, but the change didn't really address the actual problem.

For void drop table rewards, the problem isn't necessarily what we get, the problem is whether or not we feel rewarded. One of the best ideas that has floated to the surface on this is how the rewards not only stack but scale up as the mission goes on.

Example: If at 5 minutes of survival, my reward is an O cell, I think "okay fair enough" because it's 5 minutes, nothing special.

At 30 minutes, I see a drop of like, 10 O cells, even if I don't actually need that many, even if I literally only have one prime part in the game to farm, I can at the very least see the value in the prize I have been given, so even if I'm disappointed it's not what I want I don't feel jilted.

 

With R5 cores specifically, you are also contending with another problem, which is the credit cost of ranking mods. It's been around since U7 and has fluctuated up and down a little over time but currently, with the sheer amount of mod cards we rank, and the amount of them that have ten ranks it is too high.

The R5 cores aren't as much of a bonus, and they don't feel as gratifying to win from the slot machine because even though they're good compared to using other mods or lesser fusion cores they are still a prize that costs us money. They aren't really a reward in and of themselves they're just one drop in the ocean we need to fuse up a rank 10 mod. 

 

And we win them only one to a handful at a time!

 

All this of course is also completely tied up in the biggest problem the drop table has which is that it is so poorly geared towards being able to farm for one specific part, which I know is not really how a few people on the dev team want the void to be played (this was addressed in a past livestream, I don't remember which) but it's the reality of what people do and is the source of so much of our frustration and after a while, even burnout.

 

So basically, the R5 core change is fine, but as the drop tables continue to be looked at, the philosophy of how changes are made should perhaps change a little.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Santaphrax

[lightini]

R5 cores

 

It is refreshing to be able to get r5 cores outside of the void.

But the problem is void rewards, replacing r5 cores with orokin cells is not what we expected. getting rid of r5 cores in the reward pool was getting us a better chance at fetching others rares rewards.

 

And getting the r5 cores in the normal star charts gives us a real excuse to play star charts missions.

 

Friendly fire:

 

I say why the F not? it will absolutely change the way we play the game, instead of spraying every thing moving in our way. and just beacause there is always THAT guy in the squad we don't like, a misplaced bullet will ease the tension, so i'm in!

[Kruglov]

DE the Rakta Ballistica doesnt really need more damage or better stats.

 

It just needs sensible recoil!

It's a strange thing when a crossbow is somehow less accurate than the gorgon!

The little arrows seem to spread randomly right and left.

 

Damage wise, it's fine. It's the weird horizontal recoil that makes players dislike it.

[TestDummy]

fusion cores:
I do enjoy they are on the star map. But now I am only playing against infested in survival. All dark sector (bonus reward) are infested. So in my opinion the tweaking required for these cores is that there should be more variety in (high level) missions with bonus rewards.

And leaving survival at 10 minutes removes all the challenge from it. I prefer having the previous rewards for A and B and have a 100% chance for a core pack at 20 minutes.

 

Daggers:

In my opinion they feel that same as most other weapons. The problem is not the damage but rather their play style, that should be different from other weapons.
A bigger change for melee might be a better option.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/399566-making-melee-categories-more-unique/

 

Friendly fire

This would make primed reach really deadly.

Edited February 14, 2015 by TestDummy

[Orbister]

I LOVE the idea of getting cores outside the void, that way i can play with random people thanks to matchmaking, and matchmaking is in my personal gaming experience one of the most fun aspects of any game, i just love the variety of playing with random people, although it seems that cores are kinda rarer than in t4.

 

I would love if we could farm cores in endless missions like we did in t4, according to the notes they can only drop in that specific rotation? so i need to restart the mission each time they don't drop? correct me please if i'm mistaken, but i would love to be able to play a long interception game and get as a many cores as possible in one run, it's boring going back to the liset after short missions, i want to stay longer in each session.

 

TL;DR: Do cores drop ONLY at that specific rotation or FROM that onward? if they drop only there i would like them to drop from and onward.

[NOSCOPE_xGET_GUDx_BLAZER]

Friendly Fire

 

No, it would not be fun in any missions.

(364 votes [66.30%])

 

lol scrubs intensifies

 

Don't listen to them DE, Warframe hardly has any challenge, so you can fearlessly implement anything that will make game more difficult

[Boatsniper]

All DE ever said about PvP is that it would not be the main focus of warframe.

Dark Sectors would like a word with you.

 

It's quite obvious PvP is not the main focus of Warframe. It is, however, gaining a larger focus as time goes on. One of the first rules of game design is to stick with the original focus of the game. The end product will be much more consistent as a result. The Dark Sectors could easily have been developed to work really well with PvE. Instead, we have a disaster zone known as the Dark Sectors, a place nearly no one wants to visit because it is ruled by an abysmal, easily exploitable, half-baked PvP system.

 

PvP should never have gone beyond the Conclaves as just a silly thing to do with friends. The hold it's gaining on the game has gone too far, and it needs to stop.

[Kthal]

On the note of the Rakta Ballistica:

 

The other Syndicate weapons have approximate raw DPS values of between 300 and 500, the Rakta has a sustained DPS of 115 (according to wfbuilder, interpret as you will).

 

Weapons with 'tricky mechanics' are balanced by giving a slightly higher damage, or other positive stat: Bolto has extremely high damage and ROF to counter its flight time, Gammacor has limited range and 'beam-weapon-mechanics' to offset it's damage, Cestras have poor accuracy and bad ammo economy to offset theirs, and so on...

 

Pros:

Two fire modes

Status chance (on burst)

large clip (on charge)

 

Neutral:

Critical statistics

Not silenced, but not loud

 

Cons:

Charge for full damage - effectively an incredibly low fire rate

SIDEWAYS RECOIL (on burst)

Small clip (on burst)

Projectile travel time

 

 

With these values, the Ballistica would be approximately balanced at about 300 damage/shot, given the Vaykor Marelok's 160 and much higher fire rate, although I am against a direct damage increase.

 

I suggest, instead, a change to the trigger mechanics, removing the charge altogether and having a standard semiauto while scoped, and burst while shooting 'from the hip'. This, combined with a couple other changes, would make the Ballisticas (not just Rakta) a 'viable choice', they have too little damage to be effective even at mid levels, and are too gimmicky to use effectively anywhere.

 

My ideal changes (For the Rakta, with a little bias):

Trigger mechanic change as above.

Crit chance to 60% at 1.2x, for a rewarding headshot weapon. (Redcrits + low multiplier, meaning the damage is from headshots encouraging placement, and significantly effective damage on the burst-spray mode)(20% at 1.5x for the basic)

120-160 damage, I like the current split on being heavily weighted to one type. I am biased towards slash personally, but it makes no big difference. (The basic would be fine, with the other changes)

40% status, this would make it devastating as burst, and powerful as single shot. (20% on the basic, this is where most of the value would be)

Complete silence. This is a must, as a crossbow with a stealth theme... WHY? (Both Rakta and basic)

Increased flight speed on the Rakta would also be nice, but that's an optional/preference thing.

Sideways recoil is interesting, and I would leave it, although reduce by 15-25% on the Rakta compared to the basic.

 

If all these changes were made, it would be on par with the other Syndicate weapons.

[BaIthazar]

So DE reads the ideas for Friendly Fire and think, hey that's a good idea..

but they don't bother to read the comments about how everyone hates the idea..

 

makes sense

[tmtke]

Friendly fire

Well, this is interesting. I'm not against it, but should be implemented really carefully. It can be PvP only, or a nightmare mutator, but should also have a general mechanism to avoid nukes or effects like that. I'm thinking about some kind of temporal invincibility, when the player is safe from the effect. It can be a pose, a toggleable state, even you can reward players with it - the more of the team "joining" in, the greater the effect.

[V0LK]

Cores

 

It's good that cores are not exclusively in void, but chance to get them is still frustratingly low. You butchered a stable way of getting them for a slim chance. We got back to goddamn RNG again. Stop it!

 

Friendly Fire

 

No. Hell no!

 

Nekros

 

Is still all about Desecrate. Didn't noticed any changes really.

 

Conclave

 

Don't care.

[Kracken]

Friendly fire ... I was thinking about it when i started playing Warframe. Mostly because of people who will stand in front of you and hinder your shooting (they are still doing it; even more than kubrows ... but I'm used to it).

Imo the game will be much more frustrating and harder with friendly fire. People with AOE weapons such as Ogris, Penta or ignis will be a penitential party killer (literally and figuratively). And if trolls would hook up to it ... people would fear playing with pugs.

Moreover "younger" players will find more unappealing and quit.

 

Voids are the source of Prime parts from the start and let it stay that way... Cores should be farmable anywhere - but at the same time they cant not be awards in the void (at least not in the higher tiers).

 

And for the record: Harder, better, stronger, faster is not always the right way of doing things. The whole "must max" ideology is unhealthy. People should learn that what there are doing have consequences.

 

 

Necros even with the changes he is still 1 skill only frame (now he is playable in other missions aside survival)- Desecrate need to be tweaked.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Cracken

[XenosInfinity]

The concept of friendly fire is immediately a disaster. It only works in games where you have unlimited respawns, and ACTUAL respawns, not a bleedout/revive model. You don't even NEED AoE weapons to wreck an entire squad, you just need to fire at them. Our damage is so far beyond survivable when compared to our own health levels that even one misfire would be lethal. You couldn't do it unless you tailored your squad to the existence of the effect, and if it went into Nightmare effect rotation, it would be impossible to predict when it was going to show up.

[Grimlar]

Regarding the R5 cores. I am happy for R5 cores to be found outside the void, providing they can still be found in suitable quantities in the void. (Being given a single R5 core for a rotation reward instead of a prime part sucks, to be perfectly honest.) Levelling mods for the first few ranks (ie general starchart missions) only requires a few cores, levelling certain mods to max rank requires dozens if not hundreds, so only finding one or two (or worse) in a void mission is a bit pointless.

 

If we have to have utility (non Prime parts) in the Rotations, then I would suggest that you stick all of them in Rotation A and have a 0% chance of Prime parts there, but then have Rotation B, C and D (to keep the 20 minute cycle,) being mainly/exclusively for prime parts.

Or better yet, get rid of the utility stuff from the Rotations completely and allow a chance for them to drop from sub-bosses, ie Eximus etc, better that than more Oberon parts.

 

While you are at it, why not get rid of the alloy, rubedo & control module drops as well, you can easily find them in other locations after all and how do you explain the void having that stuff just lying around? If you want minerals, go to a mine, if its exotic tech you are after, then you go to the void. Its like going on an exotic holiday and bringing back a handful of ordinary sand... You'd only bring back the exotic stuff that was hard or impossible to find anywhere else, quantities of R5 cores, formas, orokin cells, neurodes, argon, prime parts etc and you cant tell me that there wouldnt be hundreds, if not thousands of them used in the construction of even a single Orokin tower. If the tower is self repairing, then it quite possibly can even make these things. (Perhaps a foundry (treasure) room somewhere that we can find. We provide resources from our stores, but we can choose a reward (mod/part) for it to make from a small list? Derelicts have vaults, but towers are still functioning and would have a need for resupply, so...)

 

-

 

Regarding Friendly Fire, I dont really think it fits with the way Warframe is set up, ie the reset when you fall off stuff, the emphasis on faster, less careful gameplay, the lack of cover and so on. I think if you add Friendly Fire it would be a big step towards making Warframe a very different kind of game and that probably wont end well.

 

-

 

Regarding daggers, the obvious point is that their range is too short to make them particularly useful in normal combat. In reality they have always been viewed as either a stealth/off hand/throwing/last resort kind of weapon or even a utility item, cutting undergrowth, preparing food etc depending on the actual size of the weapon. Im not saying they cant be used for out and out fighting, just that, because of the reach issue, you wouldnt in most circumstances if you had an alternative. So, yes, bonuses for stealth kills, backstabs etc would be a good idea.

 

-

 

Regarding PvP. The changes dont even make me consider wanting to play PvP. But then again Im mostly a solo player, even for PvE and I never play with a public group unless its by mistake.

[Kthal]

At this point, paying out increasing quantities of R5 cores is kind of ridiculous, what we need are R10 or L3-5 cores (Legendarym rank 3-5), to make obtaining them feel more rewarding, and to make trading feasible.

 

As for friendly fire... I have, on a few occasions, met extremely unpleasant, foul, volatile players. While they do not make up any significant portion of the player base, one encounter a week with some guy who insists on killing the entire team because they forgot to go solo and can't be bothered to quit (or some other, equally petty reason) would be enough to drive even the most persistent of players off. Friendly fire being disabled is an absolute must under all circumstances.

 

(Remember the hate for Radiation procs? Imagine that made much worse...)

[Storchenbein]

About the cores...

 

Adding them to other mission types is absolutely fine, the whole problem is that the most efficient spot was taken from us, T4S. 

 

There are more options to increase the drops of fusion cores, or add more of them to reach a level of fusion core farming equal to T4S before the nerf.

 

Here are some ideas I posted in a different thread:

 

Syndicate core packs - Self explanatory. A little idea from myself for this to make syndicates more unique in that matter:

 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/368568-syndicates-special-core-packs/#entry4080076

 

Sabotage caches - Remember those? Right, instead of making them drop single cores they could drop 5x core packs for those that like to explore.

 

Eximus units - Eximus units have fusion cores on their droptable, how about we make these fusion cores common/uncommon/rare 10 cores. They're supposed to be a more difficult unit to kill and as such they should also yield a better reward.

 

Spy 2.0 - We now get rare mods, void keys and even event mods from this, which is a very welcome change. Rare 5 cores are also in here, but they're single cores... Maybe putting 3x core packs would make me play this mission a lot more.

 

Rare/reinforced loot containers and lockers - We have rare containers, what about lockers? That would give people another reason to explore, additionally if you find a rare container/locker they should yield a big fusion core pack. I don't know about others but I haven't found many of them so far, so a 10x core pack seems reasonable to me.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Storchenbein