Should Melee Outdps Firearms?

[geninrising]

Greater risk should equal greater rewards under all circumstances. Yes on the poll and it clearly shows that the majority who have responded feel the same way.

[Davoodoo]

This is more of a problem with combos and E spam than melee itself.  I rarely repeatedly do normal swings except to inflict procs and most combos are not functional due to locking you in place, so I don't bother with them.  I stick to slide attacks, aerial melee ->slam attack, and ground finishers and as a result, I don't have many issues gap-closing.

Which puts all melee 2.0 big features into waste, yay.

[RealPandemonium]

Which puts all melee 2.0 big features into waste, yay.

Extra 10 mod capacity, yo!

 

It's kinda funny because I didn't really use charge attacks before M2.0 and now I don't use combos.  I do use channeling to boost the damage of my slide attacks and finishers, though.  

[NocturneOfSolace]

No but it should be equally viable

[Corvid]

NocturneOfSolace, on 24 Feb 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

No but it should be equally viable

 

Given the inherent risks of going melee, it out-dps-ing ranged attacks may be the only way to make it viable.

[Davoodoo]

Given the inherent risks of going melee, it out-dps-ing ranged attacks may be the only way to make it viable.

Not even risk, but dps loss coming from need to get close to enemy before attacking it needs to be compensated somehow.

[NocturneOfSolace]

Given the inherent risks of going melee, it out-dps-ing ranged attacks may be the only way to make it viable.

*shrugs* Fine, if that's what it takes, but I don't think that's how you make melee viable

[Ventura_Highway]

I think Melee weapons should do a bit less damage than ranged while not channeling, and more when channeling, simply because melee has the luxury of not being limited by ammo

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I think melee is already close to the sweet spot. Reducing the melee combo counter by 1/2 and adding more stagger Multi-hit, and status to combos would help bring the rest up to par.

As for straight dps buff, I agree with others that guns should just do more.

I also think that the ability to put an enemy into a finisher state should be easier. There should be a method to reach coup de grâce and apply finisher damage.

Finisher damage is the way to deal damage straight to health. I regularly deal 11000 damage and 24000 on criticals without really trying on my counter strike builds.

Edited February 24, 2015 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[DJ_Vauban]

Give me ALL the melee power...

[Davoodoo]

I think melee is already close to the sweet spot. Reducing the melee combo counter by 1/2 and adding more stagger Multi-hit, and status to combos would help bring the rest up to par.

As for straight dps buff, I agree with others that guns should just do more.

I also think that the ability to put an enemy into a finisher state should be easier. There should be a method to reach coup de grâce and apply finisher damage.

Finisher damage is the way to deal damage straight to health. I regularly deal 11000 damage and 24000 on criticals without really trying on my counter strike builds.

Melee is nowhere near sweet spot, combos cant even be used way past border where enemies can simply wreck you under second.

 

You need to get into melee range and actually block an attack to get a chance at 24k hit(actually you can hit for more than 100k with it) which immobilizes you and makes you easy target, all while opticor can throw 3 of such headshots with huge punch through every second, soma shoots 19,5 times per second each doing over 9k dmg without headshots.

 

How can you say that melee is in good spot when you need to sacrifice dmg to get to enemy, sacrifice it by using weaker and slower weapon, sacrifice it 3rd time if enemy runs out of your melee range, 4th time if you get shot and die and you sacrifice dps of your entire team which will try to ress you.

 

Melee serves as nothing more than as tool to dipose these pesky butcher,provas or chargers which get near you while reloading and as movement tool.

[Fait]

The true enemy of melee is Stamina. When your stamina depletes you can not block or parry anything, you are left defenseless. So you find yourself to think, a gun is far superior than a melee weapon. If Stamina was gone, allowing us to run towards the enemy without getting "tired" and kill them, it will be great. But since somehow us Tenno made of energy somehow lose breath for some god awful reason.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Melee is nowhere near sweet spot, combos cant even be used way past border where enemies can simply wreck you under second.

 

You need to get into melee range and actually block an attack to get a chance at 24k hit(actually you can hit for more than 100k with it) which immobilizes you and makes you easy target, all while opticor can throw 3 of such headshots with huge punch through every second, soma shoots 19,5 times per second each doing over 9k dmg without headshots.

 

How can you say that melee is in good spot when you need to sacrifice dmg to get to enemy, sacrifice it by using weaker and slower weapon, sacrifice it 3rd time if enemy runs out of your melee range, 4th time if you get shot and die and you sacrifice dps of your entire team which will try to ress you.

 

Melee serves as nothing more than as tool to dipose these pesky butcher,provas or chargers which get near you while reloading and as movement tool.

 

  Yes, without a melee build, you quickly run into the closing problem. But, that is the trade-off melee has. I can reflect damage and avoid damage until my stamina depletes. Hopefully that is after I reach the target. With a good melee build I can sustain this for very long time, but haven't tried past level 35 enemies (personally), yet. I only consider melee to be near the sweet spot, because melee isn't supposed to be the dominate tactic in the game. The devs have expressed this. No matter how literal people want to take the space ninja theme, guns are going to, and should, have an upper hand in the dps realm. Melee not scaling into infinite isn't a real concern of mine. Endlessly scaling enemies is a terrible baseline more measuring the value of anything in a game. For almost any practical level in the game including 30 minute runs in survival (yes, even t4) a good melee build can get you through it. Though it would be better if they tweaked stamina cost, and combo multiplier levels, a lot.

Edited February 25, 2015 by (PS4)MoRockaPDX

[ZoneDymo]

What...?

I don't know what you're trying to say but if excalibur tries to go for melee in high level mission he'll get literally raped.

 

I think you are a playing a different game.

You claim he gets undressed by the enemy which then force their genitals or battons into excaliburs orifices against his will?

Because that is what you are saying when you use "literally".

 

Also raped should not be used figuratively either, just saying.

[CrazyCatLad]

Pressure point should go as high as Serration...NOT PRIMED PRESSURE POINT. Regular Pressure Point.

[Yinglong]

I'm rather surprised at the current results. I was expecting a fairly even distribution. I understand there's a group of people that prefer ranged weaponry and another group that would like to see unique perks for melee as opposed to straight up increased damage. I appreciate your time and input.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Game needs a chainsword. That stunlocks any enemy it hits, unless it's a boss.

[Richgar]

I think it should depend on the weapon. If its a heavy weapon like the galatine, then yeah it should out dps some weaker ranged weapons. If its a melee weapon for convenience like a quick dagger then it doesn't make sense to outdps ranged weapons. I still don't get why daggers get lower than average stealth multiplier. They're so outclassed that they don't seem to have any use but to look cool.

[BerelHawdos]

Yes it should.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Melee: numbers wise does out DPS fire arms

I'm going to use Obex as an example.

What firearm when build with similar stats: 130.4 Damage per hit; 10% Status, 40% Crit chance; and 380% Crit multiplier

Has similar spike results without M-Prime/Sonar/Hall of Mirrors/Eclipse/Stealth multiplier/etc..

441,010 Crit w 2x combo multiplier

441k Crit from Obex with 130.4 damage build with no abilities boosting damage.

Or more commonplace:

91k crits

Obex 91,631crit

Amprex I suppose is close to the 91k but has much higher Crit chance and multiplier.

Opticor Crits high but look at the raw damage number before multiplying Crit modifier.(If we had a melee weapon with a base attack damage of 1000 before mods; R.I.P. Kogake/Obex 1,100 wall attack pre-melee 2.0; we would see higher spike Crits than what the Opticor is dealing out)

Fire arms just have better reliable sustained damage in actual gameplay.

But for actual damage figures, melee can deal more damage with smaller raw stats.

Give Melee the same Crit multipliers and Crit chance as Primaries; then let's ask if Fire arms out DPS melee.

A Soma Prime with its base 30% Crit chance and 300% Crit multiplier, almost matches a Crit build Obex: stat wise...but a Soma without the Crit mods doesn't come close to a Crit build Obex.

Give the Dual Ichors an 75% Crit chance and 840 Crit multiplier & then ask if firearms out DPS melee...

Edited March 5, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Serzet]

Absolutely Yes.

TBH, this shouldn't even need discussion.

[Davoodoo]

-snip-

You know why are you getting these crits?? combine melee multiplier with crit headshot on ancient, ye melee can headshot though it doesnt happen often due to how melee fighting and hitboxes work.

 

On "91k" movie you have moderately modded lanka criting for 135k on ancients btw.

[Qynchou]

The true enemy of melee is Stamina. When your stamina depletes you can not block or parry anything, you are left defenseless. So you find yourself to think, a gun is far superior than a melee weapon. If Stamina was gone, allowing us to run towards the enemy without getting "tired" and kill them, it will be great. But since somehow us Tenno made of energy somehow lose breath for some god awful reason.

Im going to assume you havent fought level 80 enemies with melee. Get to 40min T4 solo survival, try to hit enemies and see how much damage you do then think again whether stamina would help at all.

 

No it wouldnt, melee damage is S#&$ compared to firearms and it should be higher. It doesnt matter if you can block all attacks, once you get to the enemy you will have to kill him and it will take anywhere from 10 swings to 30 depending on enemy type.

[Ishki88]

Yes.  A player who has the balls to attack face 2 face in melee combat should be rewarded.   It's always been like that in gaming..maybe some people are stuck in their MMO world.   You could get 100 kills 0 deaths in a FPS..but as soon as you get the sickest melee kill anyone has seen you're a champion....Cool you got  5 headshots..but did you throw a dagger clear across the map and kill someone?

 

Cool you stood on top of a box and shot your Penta...but did you go Superman mode with your Nikana?

 

Edit:  This also wouldn't be an issue if Warframe's enemies knew how to fight in close quarters....who in the #$@$% would try to elbow me when I'm waving a sword in their face.

 

Again..this goes back to the derp A.I....which bleeds into the animation crew....programming crew...etc...enemies need more tactics....all of them

Edited March 5, 2015 by Ishki88

[LascarCapable]

That's a very good question...

 

I'd say it should be able to, but after an average time : you would outDPS your guns after gretting some combos for exemple. I guess making combo multiplicators easier to grab could be a thing.