Paris Prime Has 30 Arrows?

[Bebeness]

I dunno if I should write this in bugs or here, cause I'm not sure if it's been nerfed or not.

Normally: Paris Prime has 72 rounds. The last two missions (at least, that's when I noticed it) I had 30, and any ammo pickups would not exceed 30. I checked the last hot fix and nothing about it, and I checked the Warframe wiki and it still says 72.

 

What happened? Is this old news and I've been crazy to not notice it for so long?

Thanks.

[Telomen]

could it be you had the castanas as secondary weapon equipped? I i remember correctly then both weapons would use the same ammopool.

 

Hope that bring you more clarity on what happend there

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Castanas or Angstrum, equipped?

[Kracken]

Castanas or Angstrum, equipped?

they share the ammo pool (special/sniper ammo). and the game will force us to have the lover max ammo.

[[DE]Rebecca]

could it be you had the castanas as secondary weapon equipped? I i remember correctly then both weapons would use the same ammopool.

 

Hope that bring you more clarity on what happend there

This is the accepted explanation/answer on this at the moment!

[Dogoframe]

This is the accepted explanation/answer on this at the moment!

Could we expect that to be changed/fixed or it became a design decision to keep it like that? Just asking because it has been quite some time since the ammo pools were mixed.

[Gelkor]

I just encountered this last night with Dread+Castanas. Huh, guess I won't be comboing those weapons again in the future. 

[Paradoxbomb]

This is the accepted explanation/answer on this at the moment!

 

Can we expect to hear anything about whether this will be changed or not? I recall one of the Devs stating that it wasn't a "bug" and was technically working as intended, so does that mean that the ammo sharing/reduction caused by sniper ammo using weapons was done on purpose and is here to stay?

[[DE]Rebecca]

Can we expect to hear anything about whether this will be changed or not? I recall one of the Devs stating that it wasn't a "bug" and was technically working as intended, so does that mean that the ammo sharing/reduction caused by sniper ammo using weapons was done on purpose and is here to stay?

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

[Dogoframe]

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

Little feedback then for what this Beta Tester's opinion is worth.

 

That is some illogical and bad design choice. It gives the impression the developing team has no idea of how to even fix it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Dogoframe

[Paradoxbomb]

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

 

Hmm, not really sure how to feel about it as an intentional design. I suppose there's nothing wrong with the idea of weapons sharing ammunition types if they're similar mechanical, but precision primaries and explosive/AoE secondaries feel too radically different to group into the same ammo type, not to mention it cripples the former a bit since you only have 30 single-target bullets at your disposal (less if you switch between your weapons).

 

I suppose it isn't that big of an issue, but personally I would've just had it so that those AoE secondary still use pistol ammo boxes but simply receive less ammo than normal (5-10 instead of the usual 20). The Castanas, Angstrum, etc. are a bit more frivolous with ammo than AoE primaries in my experience, so I think the ammo economy would balance itself out.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Paradoxbomb

[CrazyCatLad]

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

I vote changing them both to 72 ammo max (spawn in with 72) but they can both use sniper ammo drops....if compromise is a must.

[locojuan]

it

 

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

 

 it would be very interesting to get an explanation on what the logic is behind this desing.

[2ply]

Wow, a real genius!

 

Ever bothered to search the forums or use a search engine? Its a known bug.

Gotta love it...."known bug"

So to quick lash out, ...genius!

[HardcoreSalmon]

I don't know why this is the case, why would you get punished for using certain weapons together. Surely it's detrimental enough for the weapons to share the same ammo pickups let alone nerfing the sniper and bow ammo supply.

 

Is it such a problem to have a 72 ammo sniper or bow and an explosive secondary equipped?

[HandsomeSorcerer]

Gotta love it...."known bug"

So to quick lash out, ...genius!

It is a bug, becauset a bow shouldnt share ammo with a personal rocket launcher(Angstrum).

Ammo pools are hardcoded in the game, so I have heard.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

I don't know why this is the case, why would you get punished for using certain weapons together. Surely it's detrimental enough for the weapons to share the same ammo pickups let alone nerfing the sniper and bow ammo supply.

 

Is it such a problem to have a 72 ammo sniper or bow and an explosive secondary equipped?

 

It makes no sense, and it arbitrarily punishes certain weapon combos.  I assume the fix was too complicated so they just said it was "by design" that they screwed people arbitrarily on that point.

[AM-Bunny]

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

 

I'm sorry, I don't mind the two sharing the same ammo type, but the idea that my choice of secondary will actually cause the ammo of my primary weapon to be reduced to less than half is simply ridiculous.

 

There's no other instance (nor should there be) of your secondary weapon having a direct effect on your primary. This was part of the launcher nerf, and it seems like it just wasn't thought out completely and was left half finished.

[[DE]Rebecca]

it

 

 

 it would be very interesting to get an explanation on what the logic is behind this desing.

The logic may be a juice box with a finite max volume suddenly has two straws drawing from it's contents instead of one - so we split the contents evenly. What currently stands is it is by design - if you disagree with this, that's fine, but remain respectful and understanding that a design decision can be debated, but may not change.

All things considered, at least in my experiences, ammo capacity is a system that can be actively 'defeated' with the use of restores, mods, and the active slaughter of enemies and collection of the rather abundant ammo drops.

[Legonist]

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

In many missions it is already difficult to find sniper ammo while all other ammo types drop fairly regularly (from my experience), if the ammo is maxed at 30 this will force upon bow users the use of the bow  ammo mutation mod as an almost essential mod. I have found that many warframe's and even weapons have these universal community agreed upon mods that are required to use like damage mods, energy siphon and multiplication mods. It is fine but  it think it is kinda a overly complicated and annoying change due to the result it is placing upon the community, i mean a primary weapon that has so low ammo of the type that is most difficult to get almost forces everyone to mod for ammo mutation.

 

I mean my latron wrath has a 100% crit chance with a little higher crit multiplier then my bow but has 540 rounds and a fairly high fire rate but with half the damage but that is fine with those stats.

[Dogoframe]

The logic may be a juice box with a finite max volume suddenly has two straws drawing from it's contents instead of one - so we split the contents evenly. What currently stands is it is by design - if you disagree with this, that's fine, but remain respectful and understanding that a design decision can be debated, but may not change.

All things considered, at least in my experiences, ammo capacity is a system that can be actively 'defeated' with the use of restores, mods, and the active slaughter of enemies and collection of the rather abundant ammo drops.

Respectfully saying, that doesnt sound logical at all to me, especially because other combinations of Primary+Secondary never had or have this kind of problem.

 

Making Beta Testers count on restores makes sense for the harder missions, but even a very good shot will run out of arrows in mid-level content if not using restores or ammo mutation. Because the rather abundant ammo drops are absolutely not that abundant (or even frequent) for Sniper Ammo.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Dogoframe

[CY13ERPUNK]

Haha you are recalling correctly - there have been (and I suppose will continue to be) debates both internal and external. The current verdict is by design.

 

really sad to hear this dear Lotus

 

atm sniper ammo is the only victim of this crime-by-design and considering it is largely considered the weakest of the 4 ammo types, i feel that beating on the lil guy just isnt right...

 

why for example do the shotgun-esque sidearms not use shotgun ammo? u can bring a hek and a bronco into a mission and have no conflicting ammo type/pool problems, but if you bring the castanas and a bow or a sniper, yer eff'd? there is no good reason for this

 

ok design decisions whatevs, but this is a real problem with the communication gap between DE and the players, you guys are incredibly inconsistent, if you are gimping the players by design, then those design decisions should be across the board, not randomly here or there

 

cant wait to see what yall have behind the curtain for the rest of march...

[Centias]

The logic may be a juice box with a finite max volume suddenly has two straws drawing from it's contents instead of one - so we split the contents evenly. What currently stands is it is by design - if you disagree with this, that's fine, but remain respectful and understanding that a design decision can be debated, but may not change.

All things considered, at least in my experiences, ammo capacity is a system that can be actively 'defeated' with the use of restores, mods, and the active slaughter of enemies and collection of the rather abundant ammo drops.

 

This might be somewhat logical for a combination of launcher + launcher, but not a combination of sniper/bow + launcher. Even then, the logic needs some work.

 

In the first case, you carry two launcher weapons. Makes some sense that you be limited to a shared "launcher" pool of ammo. However, if you could carry two ammo types in most cases, why not carry double the ammunition for launchers (60 spare vs 30 spare when you use two)? Would this make the Ogris/Penta too powerful by having that spare ammo available? I wouldn't think so, because when one runs out they both do, plus this forces the player to give up a closer-range defensive secondary that can't cause suicide.

 

In the second case, the sniper/bow and the launcher secondary do not perform the same function, yet the ammo of the precision primary is cut in half due to the launcher secondary. Logic would say that best case scenario the two don't share ammo because they function differently, that the primary sniper/bow keeps its 72 ammo capacity, and the secondary has its 30 ammo capacity.

 

If they simply must share the same ammo, why not add the ammo pools together so you're still carrying both? Would 102 rounds for sniper/bow/secondary launcher be overpowered? Would even keeping the sniper/bow ammo pool of 72 and sharing it with a secondary launcher be overpowered?

 

Related idea: I think it's probably time to investigate the possibility of having ammo pickups scale according to weapon vs according to category, so that secondary launchers can return to being secondary ammo, but get an amount of ammo per pickup fitting of the weapon in question. This should also lead to some weapons that fire smaller, less-damaging shots at a higher rate of fire (e.g. Grakata, Viper variants) having slightly larger ammo pickups while slower, harder-hitting weapons with better ammo efficiency receive a little less.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Centias

[motorfirebox]

The logic may be a juice box with a finite max volume suddenly has two straws drawing from it's contents instead of one - so we split the contents evenly. What currently stands is it is by design - if you disagree with this, that's fine, but remain respectful and understanding that a design decision can be debated, but may not change.

That's really weird, though. The juicebox should stay the same size no matter how many straws are stuck in it. It shouldn't magically shrink when you stick a second straw in.

 

If they want to share ammo pools, it seems like they should rework how ammo is counted. Like this: say your "base" sniper ammo pool is 72 units. A Paris Prime uses a single sniper ammo unit to create one arrow, so at full ammo your Paris Prime reads 72 rounds. Your Castanas, however, use 2.4 sniper ammo unit to create a single castana, so when you equip Castanas at full ammo your ammo count read 30 rounds.

 

If you fire one Castana, that uses up 2.4 sniper ammo units, reducing your Castanas ammo readout to 29. If you switch back to Paris, you'll see you have 69 arrows (technically 69.6, but I'd expect to round down). Fire one Paris arrow, and you'll go down to 68.6 arrows or 28.3 Castanas.

 

QED. No more mysteriously shrinking juiceboxes.

Edited March 2, 2015 by motorfirebox

[locojuan]

The logic may be a juice box with a finite max volume suddenly has two straws drawing from it's contents instead of one - so we split the contents evenly. What currently stands is it is by design - if you disagree with this, that's fine, but remain respectful and understanding that a design decision can be debated, but may not change.

All things considered, at least in my experiences, ammo capacity is a system that can be actively 'defeated' with the use of restores, mods, and the active slaughter of enemies and collection of the rather abundant ammo drops.

 

I`m so sorry!! my inquiry was extrictly aimed to acquire knowledge and information on the subject. my deepest apologies if my question seemed disrespectful. you know how much i love you guys. i guess i will have to be even more carefull with my replies.

Related to debating the issue, as you adequately put, i respectfully disagree with this desing.

 Arrows are not missiles/granades. bows have their own balance elements. However AoE secondaries are very high damage, so i kinda understand a need of balance. I do not like it, but i can cope with it.

 

Thank you very much for your answer!! <3 <<3 <3