Can Anyone Help Me Understand "loki Requires More 'skill' Than Rhino"

[SinReplica]

For someone who's been playing a while I can say that, for me, using Rhino on late T4 was a hell of a lot more exciting than Loki. With Rhino you're fighting for your life because Iron Skin is practically cosmetic. It's far more fun when you have to run, dodge, deflect, and constantly react to enemies in order to survive. Roar is great (could be better), and Charge is basically a teleport if modded right. Stomp is your go to ability when it gets heavy (though can feel extremely annoying when spammed, and my god do people spam it...). 

 

Loki feels a bit too safe for MY tastes. I go invisible, disarm the entire area and gun down everyone from a corner without any repercussions (save a stray bullet), or be more "risky" and melee. That got boring real fast for me. That's not to say Loki isn't useful, because he's far more useful than Rhino will ever be. When it comes to framing, surviving those insane Alerts, etc. you can't go wrong him. Which is why after playing with all the Frames, and hearing all the complaints, I settled on the most meh of them all. Though when his Prime comes someone will find a way to add him to the dreaded "noobs only" list.

 

Man that one little statement that Loki is "For experienced players" is at the root of all this "drama".......

[Rakshal]

Sooo... am I the only one here think loki and rhino is just a mastery fodder frame @@.

You and me both bro, you and me both.

[izzatuw]

You and me both bro, you and me both.

Bc everybody knows that the only true god tier "frame" is Valkyr's bootyful behind?

[KiteoHatto]

Doesn't he still get procd by certain effects even when in the other dimension?

Also with his abilities you have to do one enemy at a time if you do the psudo god mode route.  and still have to do a majority of your damage with guns.  And that build isn't really team friendly.

 

Unlike someone like mag who can make everything in the room explode.  idk.  I think limbo is a harder player to use then loki or rhino.

It takes player's skill(reaction and thought) to survive on frames that don't have any sort of instant damage avoidance skills though.

[Viqualy]

loki is actually helpful to others

[Rakshal]

Bc everybody knows that the only true god tier "frame" is Valkyr's bootyful behind?

Well duh. :P

[Deus_X_Machina]

To me skill also means that a player is able to help his team out. And the understanding that Loki usually helps his team more than Rhino, is somewhere along the way of becoming skillful.

 

I really liked to use Rhino, as he was nice to resurrect others. I still don't have a Loki.

But somewhere I decided to use more Frames that are more helpful to all players, than just to myself.

A team of frames that are useful to the team, is stronger than a team with more abilities that benefit the individual frame.

 

Lokis Invisibility on the other hand, I think, is negative for the team, since the enemies have less targets to concentrate their fire on.

[izzatuw]

loki is actually helpful to others

I really don't see your use here...

[-FV-Wsocks]

Loki is not my main nor do I play him often anymore because I find the game too easy when I'm playing him. That said, I still consider him to be, without a doubt, the best frame to date. While his abilities work just as well on their own, any one of his abilities perfectly compliments any other. Rhino, on the other hand, has four abilities that can be used in conjunction with one another but don't necessarily gain any extra effectiveness from doing so. In short, most believe that Loki can  be used to more devastating effect and has greater late-game potential. 

[9tailboy]

8-20 seconds of complete invisibility that is completely useful level 1-100 is not I repeat not easy to use. Dude, you're kinda over exaggerating the term "skill". It doesn't take 1 whole minute to figure it out Decoy+Switch Teleport, it's just press 1, than press 3. So skillz, many mlg, wow.

Complete invisibility, you can still get killed while invisible, and the escalation was just a way to teach people that rhino isn't the best warframe, which I am glad for, even if 8-20 seconds is enough to beat level 100+ enemies, you still gotta count that if 8-20 seconds, the moment you are out of invisibility and seen, and if the enemy still has their weapon, you will die 1 hit. "completely useful level 1-100 is not I repeat not easy to use", ok that part is wrong, you are saying that invisibility is useful but you say its not easy to use? Thats completely wrong, something that is useful but not easy to use is therefore not useful.

 

And it doesn't take a whole minute to figure out how to use decoy and switch teleport, but you have to know where to place a decoy, if you're in a defense, one does not place a decoy right beside the cryopod, that just makes your enemy come closer to what you are protecting, and would you place a decoy in the middle of nowhere? Switch teleport is a debatable thing, but all you need to know is where you teleport and who you switch is important, such as the escalation where to CC a group of enemies, you teleport the enemy who is hacking and nothing wrong.

 

Your title suggests that you are asking for help why loki is better than rhino, but this is a general discussion, theres no help from this, and you're just replying back to everyone who responds, its like you're not asking for help but baiting people into an argument or make up a discussion where you are trying to put certain frame users to shame, while putting in other frames that are not supposed to be in this discussion.

[KozaTheShadow]

I agree with the argument that playing a tanky frame messes with your game mentality. First frame I ever built was Frost and he is still my most used and loved frame, but the day I built a Nyx as my 3rd frame and started using her the game was way different. Dropping from couple hundred shields and health, 290ish armor down to 15 and maybe some shields was way different. Either way it does not matter to me, I do not like Rhino personally cause he looks ugly =/ styleframe only frame. I would assume the bad assumptions about Rhino just either come from people that like to bandwagon hate or have met those Rhinos that only play Rhino, then *@##$ and moan when they die in high level tier stuff because they think they can jump slide kick everyone for laughs. 

[Wiegraf]

Another reason why Rhino is often seen as a 'noob frame' is that he's one of the first Warframes you can farm off of the Jackal and given the effectiveness of his offensive and room clearing powers at rank 30, his tankiness and the ability to soak damage with Iron Skin in low level missions compared to a brand new Excalibur, Loki or Mag, it feels almost invincible.

 

Mostly because you can just stand in the line of fire and shoot back whereas any of the three starters require to take cover and monitor your health and shields more closely (or in the case of Loki, to cloak to slip out to recover).

[(PSN)Prestofade]

Imo rhino and loki are good starter frames for people who keep dying then you can move on to more skilled frames

[izzatuw]

@9tailboy That is called sarcasm. Dude when crap reaches level 50+ they do not give 2 ducks about your health or shields, everyone dies within a few hits later on.

Initially I was asking because I couldn't understand but now that I got the reasons I'm completely lost at the reasons that are given. Requires precise timing, opinions that can eventually be stated as facts. Etc.

I reply because this is my thread and I must disagree with a few of the replies, there's no help because you're not the one seeking it, I am.

What other frames? Valkyr? The one I was joking around with? The main discussion is still Rhino and Loki.

And you are still kinda acting as if it takes hours worth of research to handle Loki.

Edited March 6, 2015 by izzatuw

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Loki requires less skill to use than rhino, but loki is just better. Almost godly good. But he needs more rare and powerful mods.

[Husla]

My opinion is that Rhino is an absolute trash frame to me, he is nothing but a walking sausage.

He's worth it for Vault with bleeding/decaying because of his iron skin

[Leland_Gaunt]

There is no difference.

 

Even the buttons to press are the same (2).

People who say Loki requires more skill than Rhino should have their head checked.

[9tailboy]

@9tailboy That is called sarcasm. Dude when crap reaches level 50+ they do not give 2 ducks about your health or shields, everyone dies within a few hits later on.

Initially I was asking because I couldn't understand but now that I got the reasons I'm completely lost at the reasons that are given. Requires precise timing, opinions that can eventually be stated as facts. Etc.

I reply because this is my thread and I must disagree with a few of the replies, there's no help because you're not the one seeking it, I am.

What other frames? Valkyr? The one I was joking around with? The main discussion is still Rhino and Loki.

And you are still kinda acting as if it takes hours worth of research to handle Loki.

Maybe because I do like loki alot that I would take hours of reseach to think up of fun stuff to do with him, hes basically my go to warframe for anything I feel like, level 50+ is quite inaccurate as you can play test and see rhino can still take a lot of hits up there, 100+ maybe rhino's iron skin is negated, but loki gets there with invisibility. "I reply because this is my thread and I must disagree with a few of the replies, there's no help because you're not the one seeking it, I am.", of course I'm not seeking for help, I'm just giving you tips and comparisons that rhino and loki have, but now that this turned into a heated dabate I don't really think you need any help.

 

Rhino vs loki

Health: rhino's is slightly higher

Shield: Rhino's is significantly higher

speed: Loki is faster

armor: Rhino's is significantly higher

Energy: Loki's is significant higher

 

1st ability: Rhino has instant travel and deals damage, loki's is distraction and placement

2nd ability: Rhino's gives off invincibility to everything and mitigates a certain amount of damage, loki's takes off all detection and stays cloaked but still vulnerable to damage for given time.

3rd ability: Rhino gives off damage boost to teammates and himself for given time, loki has the ability to switch positions with anything, has fast travel but depended

4th ability: Rhino deals massive damage and stuns enemies for given time, loki completely disarms enemies and shortly stuns them, can damage but not quite.

 

Complete comparision of loki and rhino, clearly you can see rhino has many pros than loki does, but the difference between them is that loki becomes much more useful end game as it is  one of those "nullifier" abilities, also modding both takes thought, rhino can go pure damage, range, or duration, while loki takes duration or range.

"That is called sarcasm" and I'm sorry I can't understand sarcasm, maybe because this was typed up and theres very little you can do to express your feelings

[Hisophonic]

He's worth it for Vault with bleeding/decaying because of his iron skin

I can easily do that with Saryn and the Regenerative Molt Augment but hey whatever floats your boat.

[iArucard]

Both Rhino and Loki are different style and class..

[Gelkor]

Both have good utility for high level and low level play.  Stack Roar with MP and Sonar and laugh as your team decimates everything with huge red crits and you'll see what I mean.

[Epicagemo]

I can see the issue, I never thought of comparing them like that.

I'll go one step further and say that Loki is much easier and requiring much less skill to play than rhino. His second gives 4x stealth multiplier and I don't see how rhino can keep up to that. I go around in stealth with Loki, perma invis mowing down mobs with ease, and I can't mow down mobs as efficiently with a rhino.

[Garland137]

Newer players get drawn to Rhino because he's a damage dealer and taker.  His 1 and 4 are damage-dealers, with 4 also having some limited CC if you mod for duration.  His 2 makes you invulnerable to knockdowns from Moas, laser barriers, Scorpions, as well as status effects.  At lower levels, you can keep it up indefinitely with little effort.  His only "team" skill is Roar, which very few if any people ever use.

 

Loki, on the other hand, does not deal damage.  None of his abilities can directly kill things.  His powers are much more tactical oriented.  Decoy is great when placed properly to divert attention from defence objectives or to draw in enemies for easier killing.  Disarm works the same whether enemies are lvl 1 or lvl 100; at high level content (i.e. T4) the damage-based powers drop off, while CC scales endlessly.  Switch Teleport is great for getting teammates out of the middle of crowds when they get downed, or for putting enemies in different locations (like Raptor-in-a-box).  When used in conjuction with Decoy you can teleport yourself quickly to otherwise difficult to access areas.  Invisibility is admittedly very easy to cheese, especially thanks to that stealth bonus, but can also allow Loki to disarm, teleport, revive, and move around unnoticed.

 

Loki is also very fragile compared to Rhino, so he's more punishing when you rush into a crowd and get surrounded.  All that being said, the skill difference--real or imagined--isn't that big.  I think Rhino is just easier to pick up and play for newbies, and his powers are more straightforward in their uses.

[Snydrex]

There's a reason why "#lokimasterrace" is treated as universal satire, y'know?

[(PSN)kiddplay13]

#LimboMasterRace

 

Tanking and Invincible at the same time