R34LM Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 This is kind of the way they treated the Synoid Gammacor. 1. Both variants of the Gammacor were very poor at launch, and people from within Suda's syndicate were jealous that other syndicates got better weapons (at the time it was the Telos) 2. Both variants get a buff, but the Synoid gets an intense buff, bringing it up to the level of top tier weapon, on par with the Brakk and Marelok. 3. Due to the ridiculous accessibility of the Synoid, a lot of people begin to use it, as it's syndicate power is certainly nothing to sneeze at. This creates a new meta and DE is acts on it, nerfing the power regeneration effect. The crowd gets an uproar for a good week (including those with Rakta Ballistica, who feel they are being punished for no reason), but it then subsides. 4. Synoid was still a very top tier weapon, doing plenty of damage with little penalty. DE decides to nerf the Synoid further by reducing its efficiency by 7.5x, reducing its actual desire to be used, rather than its effectiveness. Again, rage. I had made a topic that the Synoid was still tolerable with the use of Pistol Ammutation, but after even further testing, it is very difficult to use it for the purpose that I gave it for the longest time. The biggest problem with DE is that they let us have "so good its broken" equipment for way too long, so we rage when our playstyles and builds are messed up. I actually had to put 3 forma in my Synoid before it got to the rank of controversy. So, some may consider it to be overbuffed starting out, but I'd only classify it to be as good as the Marelok at that point. Then it gets nerfed in a fair way, but overnerfed, making it very difficult to sustain. It is a fair trade off, as I consider it more, but you have now made a weapon that was so easy to use for the longest time become an absolute chore to keep running. Also, for those people saying "well the Synoid is now a secondary", you might as well prepare for some Marelok or Brakk changes in the future, because which weapons are people going to turn to if they feel the Synoid is no longer of use? Marelok and Brakk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wereduck_of_Arrakis Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Decrease the grind by nerfing rare core drops and nerfing credits in the void? I thought they were decreasing the grind by putting 1% drops in T4 void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganDeux Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Exca got nerf? Not a problem to me.I never see him as a grinding tool. He was my first starting frame and he remains my main warframe,the second is Saryn. But I hope DE reply ASAP about the disappointments of the community. A bit sad about how players treat exca after the nerf though, when he can be used to farm syndicate and rank,they treat him like a king,then after the nerf they see him as abundant,useless,trash,... And every newbie ask about exca now they will receive an answer : " Don't play Exca,he's no good!!" :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira_him Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 2 words to the question why DE doesn't listen and hide things now "Perfect World" Asian game company tricks, esp. Chinese and Taiwan companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koler93 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I think that you could add to OP something about nullifers and frost buble. I know that it's not a big concern but its another perfect example where DE isnt honest with us. As we all know there is no way to to dmg nullifer from outside the buble. What is quite interesting all explosives types from for example penta or castanas cant deal any dmg to them. There is no way to kill them without removing the buble first. And here we have frost. DE claimed that they cant fix explosive weapons because it will take a lot of time, and it will be done SoonTM. As you can see nullifers are somehow immune to those explosion effects ? It's really annoying when you are forced to take a loki on every T4 surv/ def because Frost globe cant protect you. Someone isnt honest with us or there is a miracle bug which made nullifers immune to those effects and cant be fixed for over 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmegarockx Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 so u know that mag got nerf the cone spread on the basic Mag Pull ability so yea DE win.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganDeux Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I think that you could add to OP something about nullifers and frost buble. I know that it's not a big concern but its another perfect example where DE isnt honest with us. As we all know there is no way to to dmg nullifer from outside the buble. What is quite interesting all explosives types from for example penta or castanas cant deal any dmg to them. There is no way to kill them without removing the buble first. And here we have frost. DE claimed that they cant fix explosive weapons because it will take a lot of time, and it will be done SoonTM. As you can see nullifers are somehow immune to those explosion effects ? It's really annoying when you are forced to take a loki on every T4 surv/ def because Frost globe cant protect you. Someone isnt honest with us or there is a miracle bug which made nullifers immune to those effects and cant be fixed for over 4 months. Volt is currently a good anti Nullifiers frame to me.If you often go to void or missions with nullifiers you will see that he usually goes with a bunch of other troops.Volt's ult can chain electrify them and link to the nullifier himself.And one thing i'm sure of is that the nullifiers are weak to electricity because my volt's ult kill him with just electric shock from volt's ult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorinar Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 DE repeatedly says they are aware of the grind and want to reduce it. And then repeatedly adds things that are massively more grindy than anything before them. But occasionally we get tossed a bone, like Mirage, and say hey we listened. It's not good enough and my trust has been lessening for quite some time. This latest incident is just another example. I get that they have to make money and grind walls are a good way for them to do that. But they aren't a good way for consumers to have fun. If I have to pay to avoid pain, do I enjoy spending that money? Wouldn't I rather pay to increase pleasure? I mean, this is supposed to be entertainment. What other thing in life do we pay to avoid pain? Insurance. Every time you give DE money, just remember you're paying your grind insurance bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SLX-J3tAc3 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 As a cynical person, I'll try to refrain myself from assuming malice, but instead account the whole thing as a mix of incompetence and lack of exp. as far as MMO designs go. For whats it worth, Warframe is very much a semi-MMO with a gameplay based on ARPG foundation, but if you look at any good examples of those geners, you'll see how much Warframe is lacking in key areas. Trying to prevent players from being efficient and mass farming so they can get the best return for their investment in an excercise in futility, regardless of whether DE intended the game to be played that way or not. The fault, inevitably, is on their shoulders, as the players are simply using the systems provided by DE to maximise efficieny. This has been the case with more or less every MMO ever. The problem here is the way DE are handling this artificial issue, by nerfing or even bricking frames and weapons to the point where they become useless or ineficient in tackling the other areas of the game, without much thought being given to it. All this leads to people just seeking for the next big thing and the cicle repeats. This will not change, as players will always seek to maximise efficiency, even if the end result is gameplay that can be achieved by spamming a macro. The way to solve this is to provide avenues of better rewards with more challenging and/or engaging gameplay. If they can get better rewords elsewhere, even if the process is more challenging, people will opt for it because the end result is better return for less investment. A lot of the issues with the game lay on key foundations that are bad at best. We talk about balancing the game and improving versatility, while the cancer that is the current modding system, RNG, grind walls or infinete enemy scaling is still present. Conventional methods at getting things back in order simply won't work. Sometimes "Exterminatus" is the only option. Hopfully this post is not too vague and won't distract from the initial train of thoughts presented by the OP. If that is the case, the OP can promp me and I'll remove it. Sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egg_Chen Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 +1 like many others have done. My own 2p, it is not the change or the reasoning, or the 180 degree changes they make, it is the complete BS spouted to appease us. When a company I have supported financially treats me like I am an idiot, it does not bode well for our future. I am not alone, and DE treating your playerbase like they are gullible fools is not going to help your business, I assure you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganDeux Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I'll just stick around to get chroma,then grind in World of tanks and wait for the coming hotfixesThe Devs knew their mistakes, we'll just have to see their response through hotfixes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 DE is ignoring most feedback. But you will NOT ignore this one. OP one sums up all the flaws of your companies way of doing/handling things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Cool to see the community mostly agreeing on something. Seriously this was unprofessional and De's not doing itself any favors by taking this long to respond to this massive storm in the community about their bad decisions. And I'm usually forgiving when it comes to these things since 'yeah they're working the kinks out, there will be some bumps some times" even if they revert the nerf, give compensation or a apology (not saying they should/shouldn't do that) this still has made me VERY wary of giving them any money any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganDeux Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) 2 words to the question why DE doesn't listen and hide things now "Perfect World" Asian game company tricks, esp. Chinese and Taiwan companies Like Steve already said.Those guys have no interferring rights to the game. The stock DE gave out is the investment stock,which means they invest money only into DE and they will receive profit back from the game exact the percentage of the stock they hold.They have no control over DE so stop blaming everything for the bad U16 and wait for hotfixes Edited March 21, 2015 by Fury0503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 So the component Marketplace, Dark Sectors being a thing, the Void being a thing, Survival missions, rare chests, caches in Sabotage, the mods in Spy missions, the affinity gain from stealth kills, Desecrate being a thing, the Codex being a thing, and trading, aren't all reducing grind in some way? I must be delusional then because I could've sworn they all did in some fashion. Component marketplace only moves the grinding on to someone else. Dark Sectors are a) taxed to death and b) not really that lucrative in terms of resources compared to normal missions - so not worth it overall. Survival missions are just another part of the grind, rare chests are so rare that they may as well not exist for the rewards they give, sabotage caches are nice but just amount to one more roll on the same loot table (while defence missions give you 2 at least), spy mission mods could easily have been placed elsewhere, stealth kill affinity was recently nerfed (and as such is now inferior to Draco), desecration doesn't help when you're after mission rewards, the codex is irrelevant to grinding; and trading, as mentioned earlier, only makes someone else do the grinding. The only real anti-grind things here are Desecrate (which is an extremely boring job and horribly grindy in its own right) and sabotage caches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira_him Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Like Steve already said.Those guys have no interferring rights to the game. The stock DE gave out is the investment stock,which means they invest money only into DE and they will receive profit back from the game exact the percentage of the stock they hold.They have no control over DE so stop blaming everything for the bad U16 and wait for hotfixes It is not perfect world controlling DE, but DE "learn" from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vogav Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 OPENING STATEMENT / DISCLAIMER This is constructive criticism and feedback. It has every right to be here under Feedback Categories and the subsection General. I feel as though I should make this disclaimer due to seeing some posts every once in a blue moon being locked/deleted after pointing out the team's state-of-mind with legitimate complaints and no valid reason given for the locking. If you disagree, then all I can say is I'm sorry. Just for THIS, I voted your post up. Now let's read the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grulos Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Also DE, another apologize is not enough. STOP this and LISTEN to the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocturneOfSolace Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Also, for those people saying "well the Synoid is now a secondary", you might as well prepare for some Marelok or Brakk changes in the future, because which weapons are people going to turn to if they feel the Synoid is no longer of use? Marelok and Brakk. Um...no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotheadtxt Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I play Warframe because the thing i like most about them is how they care about players (They help me alot when i encounter issues starting the games) but now... after hundreds of hours playing with friends......i'm not sure i still like this game or not. Please DE, dont ignore us, dont ignore the backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazools Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 DE_Steven will probably address the community next week in an attempt to fix this, i just hope he gets straight to the point and cut all the vague answers out of his letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anunymau5 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Instead of nerfing Excaliber and punishing players for Draco farming, DE should have made other areas of the game more rewarding. Don't remove places for players to farm, but instead distract them with far more satisfying gamemodes and rewards. That's what I was hoping raids would do They could have been the perfect solution to draco for giving players huge masses of credits and affinity. A testament to what they just accomplished. But instead like always, DE goes to the chopping block and begins hacking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylazy Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 since u13 about invi melee multiplier stealth nerft i have lost faith to them, not because the nerft...is Rebaca replied in the thread they will announce a note about the new invi mechanical...but since then untill u16 i have never see anything about invi melee's note....and recently they have nerft it more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyr-Umbra Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) I'm taking a break from Warframe. If you're also upset with DE and want to show it, I'd recommend doing the same. Maybe I'll log in to warframe to craft my chroma parts, but thats it. Elder Scrolls Online just dropped its subscription, I think I'll spend some time on that.. Warframe's still a great game, but I'm way to upset to play it right now. Edited March 21, 2015 by Snowman486 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V0LK Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 YEAR OF QUALITY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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