Difficulty In Warframe Vs. Other Games

[Vaskadar]

Disclaimer: Warframe is NOT a difficult game by any stretch of the imagination once gear has been unlocked. It is actually quite exploitable thanks to powercreep and other elements. It just uses numerical values to 'modify the difficulty' instead of mechanical changes to the enemies that would otherwise create a rewarding and challenging experience.

 

Currently, the 'difficulty' of Warframe is ramped up numerically. It doesn't have to be that way. A route that is often the more resource/time-intensive, is adding various attacks and maneuvers that unlock and ramp up as the enemies level up. Killing Floor 2 is doing just that. 

 

Check it out approximately 13 minutes in where they discuss adding different attacks and animations instead of ramping up health.

 

I know this is a PVE-oriented game. That's the core game right there, but so is Killing Floor. Instead of just walking when shot at, enemies sprint at the player at a breakneck pace. It boils more down towards reaction speeds and awareness than just raw damage and raw CC capabilities. I get that Warframe is supposed to be an RPG-Like MMO-lite type dungeon game, but weapons become so much less satisfactory after a certain point.

 

Endless game modes are the death of the incentive to design a skill-based challenge. Numerical difficulty cheapens the experience overall and it's a lot to ask for an overhaul, but Damage 3.0 may need to come around.

 

 

Watch as the large fat enemy (the Bloat) sprints after a player some point later in the game. (Spoiler, they all die in the end), but it's designed to be a frantic, fast-paced game that involves a lot of teamwork and precision. I have logged quite a few hours in Warframe, and quite a few in the original Killing Floor (a game guilty of using numerical difficulty, but good mechanics lessened the frustration of numerical inflation).

Edited April 8, 2015 by Vaskadar

[J1ffyLub3]

warframe isn't difficult, the hardest aspect of the game is understanding how the damage system works and what not

 

mechanically, there isn't anything that new presented in warframe

[Katakuna]

Heh, I just finished watching that.  My wallet eagerly awaits April 21st.

 

But I'm not sure how KF2's method of dealing with difficulty could potentially translate into Warframe.

[thehotsung8701A]

I'm a beginner, and I think Warframe is easy.  Modding is the only thing that can be difficult to understand. 

[Sziklamester]

1. Less grind

2. Meanings why we grind why we need better and better weapon instead grind. aka (lore) and direction.

3. Better AI

4. Better engine

5. Devs whom willing to listen sometimes and accept peoples feedback and constructive ideas.

 

Edit: This isn't but at least real.

 

Part2_ : The game not difficult just sometimes the rng make annoying situations which piss you off.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Sziklamester

[nickelshark]

I think some people are missing the OP's point. He is not saying Warframe is difficult but rather Warframe does "Difficulty" in the wrong way, a way that doesn't really test skill as it is more of a gear check. By adding more complexity to Warframe "Difficulty" it could result in more fun and satisfying game-play.

Edited April 8, 2015 by nickelshark

[Chaosdreamer]

Like they said in this video , the weapon "feel bad &#!" "The difficulty remain" 

 

So basicly in Warframe we go this way [start] ---- > [Most hard time to start] ---- > Progress ------ > Ennemies is easier ---- > End of game ( Someone who did clear the whole map , got hight mastery , most weapon , mods max'ed etc) ----- > Ennemies does not stand a chance , they will just get be able to walk 2 seconde if they're lucky are not noticed

 

I guess I'll have to test this games , If my computer say "Ok" I'll get this games to try ;) thanks for sharing

[LABAL]

That would've been a great addition. It would've saved the Warframe.
Just imagine: as the enemy level goes up, they send in more skilled troops. They run, they vault, they throw grenades, dodge, wait behind the corners, attack from behind, utilize the surroundings, use cover, sidearms and melee, block, parry, throw mines into doorways and are generally better at everything, while being not much tougher physically, but much faster and flexible (rolling out of AoE, for example), just like higher MR players.

I don't think this would be too difficult to accomplish. We're already used to bugs, right?

Edited April 8, 2015 by LABAL

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I want this to happen, but there would have to be some changes first:

 

1. we'd have to actually be able to avoid enemy attacks without CC. Right now giving enemy powers is just giving them more ways to guarantee our deaths unless we have CC.

 

2. We'd need the TTK from guns to increase. Right now, we can kill everything in fractions of seconds at all but the brokenly high levels (that shouldn't exist. There needs to be a lower level cap), so new abilities would go unnoticed. This would also serve to increase the purpose in our damage-focused abilities.

 

3. We'd need the energy system to be fixed. As I said in #1, we need CC to avoid enemy attacks. But the thing is, we can get that CC ridiculously easily. We can't see powers from enemies that can't shoot, and besides I think most agree that it's not fun to fight enemies that can't fight back.

 

If those three things happen, this would greatly improve gameplay. If they don't, this will just be frustrating and unfair, and force us to play the game in boring ways.

[PookieNumnums]

This would be ai more so than just damage

Remember the zanuka trailer? What happened to wall cling spider monkey?

Better enemy mechanics wouldn't hurt and would be a testament to player ability as the game gets harder

[Vaskadar]

At most of the people here: I never said Warframe was difficult. It's almost mindlessly easy.

[Deshiel]

Warframe is a difficult game with starting weapons and standart mods.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Wrymius & Zephy bird is harder than everything else in the game.

[Vaskadar]

Anyone else have solid examples of games that use enemy diversity to make the game more difficult? I remember Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 2 being clear examples of this.

[KiteoHatto]

Warframe: DIfficult at the start, the longer you play the easier it gets as you max things.

Other games: Easy at the start, gets harder as you level and then gets easy once you are maxed out.

Edited April 8, 2015 by kiteohatto

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

They dont need to change the core gameplay mechanics of warframe.

 

What they need to do is create more bosses with more creative abilities that represent a challenge strategically and tactically when you fight them.

 

Not more mobs or tile sets or alerts, more bosses.

[Hisophonic]

My pants are so wet for Killing Floor 2.

[Artized]

Warframe has always been a numbers game, and I think it will continue to be that way. If DE were to change the way difficulty worked, they would also have to make several changes to other core systems of the game which would make it entirely different.

[Blakrana]

Anyone else have solid examples of games that use enemy diversity to make the game more difficult? I remember Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 2 being clear examples of this.

 

Off the top of my head, Monster Hunter comes in at number one for Enemy skills getting expanded as you rank up your HR.

 

Sure, you've got the Equipment progression, but in order to get the better gear you've got to fight monsters stronger than the kit you're using now. From Low Rank to High Rank, the actual base defence of Blademaster Armour is double the best of your Low Rank stuff. You need to kill a lot of High Rank monsters to make that necessary armour.

 

All whilst learning of new Subspecies, new attack motions...fun time. Bonus points, if different species mob up, they might have one playing Artillery style attacks on you whilst the other brutalises you in Melee. Fun. Times.

 

After that, Phantasy Star Portable 2 was an interesting case. Flat RPG levelling up to level 200, and you've got Melee, Ranged, Technic for your general attack options. It wasn't so much that enemies got more impressive moves, as more generally dangerous aspects of enemies become very noticable, so you need to balance out your weak points, like boosting Mind to protect your Beast Hunter from getting nuked by a Technic enemy. Equipping Status protection units in said armour to not get Frozen/Sleep/Stun and murdered in quick order.

 

Where's the skill? You've got enemies that randomly are better (Think Eximus, but they come with better Exp, Loot drop rates and cash drops and no passive buff of other enemies), meaning one lowly mook could be very hard to kill. You've got to manage your Chain so your Photon Art attacks can do better damage...and you've got to evade, block and manoeuvre around enemies to get the best angle for attack: Melee gets guaranteed Critical Hits if you strike from behind...and same rules applied to you, too, from the enemy point of view.

 

And any one engagement would have critters with potentially different defences (Resists Melee/Ranged/Technic) and weaknesses, attack patterns, elemental types, combat role...Sure, there were cheap things, but if you knew what you were up to, quite a few 'If you think you're hard enough' Solo challenges to be had. Especially if fighting Melee. Oh, and bonus points, your Photon Art is the same pool you draw from for Evasion and Blocking, so you've got to manage your attacks really carefully in case you're stuck waiting on it to recharge.

 

XCOM: Enemy Unknown was good, giving a solid appreciation for Cold Hard Tactics. Similarly with Transistor, where reckless use of your abilities and not making good use of cover points would cost you dearly. Lots of different kinds of enemy with different strategic solutions.

 

Left For Dead, classic example I guess.

 

Trails in the Sky, First Chapter had some pretty solid end game enemy diversity: Monster summoners, high damage melee or ranged, status effects to concerned about...was good solid RPG fun.

 

There's probably more I could think of, but at the moment I'm drawing some blanks.

[Spindle99]

The problem with this thread is, do Warframe players actually want more difficulty in terms of AI tactics?

 

I don't think they do.

[KiteoHatto]

The problem with this thread is, do Warframe players actually want more difficulty in terms of AI tactics?

 

I don't think they do.

They secretly don't but they openly say they do as it increases the epeen on the forums/ingame.

If we actually got something challenging(smarter and adaptive ai depending on the squad) then there would be so many tears Baro would have to sell prisma buckets every 2 weeks.

[Ziegrif]

Warframes difficulty is about the enemies not being able to kill you or they kill you in one shot.

There's very little leeway which is really a shame.

[CarrotSalad]

Thing about difficulty is people are prone to network and PC latency. Whats easy for someone with 0 ping is impossible with a 500 ping.

[Hypernaut1]

Most people in here have no idea whattheyre talking about. How canyou say WF doesnt have enemy diversity? really? The enemies are highly diverse and do increase in number and diversity with difficulty. 

 

While i agree that the game isnt the most challenging, but thats because this community whines about ANYTHING difficult. Anything that is actually difficult in this game gets criticized as "artificial" or "cheese tactics"- with any real reason to call it so, That video showed me nothing that isnt implemented in WF already. 

 

If anything, all i see is people asking to make the game easier. Its always a complaint about a nerf, LoS, or needing more mod slots.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[SolaireTheSunWalker]

The problem with this thread is, do Warframe players actually want more difficulty in terms of AI tactics?

I don't think they do.

Yes I do actually and I want the game to be hard ..... the trails (raids) are honestly so easy once you've done it once