Nerf Mesa Instead Of Gmag (Energy Denial)

[EinheriarJudith]

it won't change anything....if you think about it, it'll be actually helpful to those who do this

when mag pull energy, and mesa just started using PM, she'll just consume the energy orb for 5 energy instead of the whole 25 

my point is mesa would just toggle off PM, pick up the energy and makes peace again....won't change anything :P 

it changes the one thing we see in defense her ability to stay in PM the moment she toggles it off to get energy by what ever means durring a fight people wont be standing around doing nothing they can actually play again but for a frame that is supposed to have gun play she jokingly does not and that is reason enough to revamp peacemaker.

 

For those of you who dont know the meaning of greed. Greed: intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.

Edited July 6, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[--VIIA--Ijenius]

Yes because when I go to dark sector defense with pugs I go there to have fun, not to grind my @$$ off.

Who force you go to ds with public squad? O_o

And if you do why you complaining? o_O

Edited July 6, 2015 by Ijenius

[Krak_Nihilus]

Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg Nope.jpg

There is a major difference between a GMag that's pulling loot into a team, and one that is using Pull non-stop the entire god damn time and getting enemies stuck in the map terrain, delaying completion from their standing in a bad spot and RELENTLESSLY spamming that one stupid move.

Have seen about four intelligent, useful, functional GMags in my life that didn't just make the game a massive irritation.

@OP, this entire thread kind of neglects that all Mesa has to do is cancel out of Peacemaker and go back into it once you pick up all your energy. In a thread I made a bit ago, I mentioned how I have never once requested a GMag for my Mesa, since a Sahasa Kubrow creates energy orbs, and does so in my immediate vicinity. Your suggested nerf would do nothing more than stop Mesa from shooting for about five seconds before she winds her fire rate back up to max again.

Nearly every gmag I played with (out of draco of course) were usefull, maybe because I play with clan mates mostly.

Yes, I know. And that's exactly what will happen when they nerf gmag just instead of gmag you'll have trinity making 1-2 vampire casts when mesa stops peacemaker and then they can go back to destroying the map. I did say that it won't stop farming and no matter what they do farming will still exist.

Also the same to this guy

it won't change anything....if you think about it, it'll be actually helpful to those who do this

when mag pull energy, and mesa just started using PM, she'll just consume the energy orb for 5 energy instead of the whole 25

my point is mesa would just toggle off PM, pick up the energy and makes peace again....won't change anything :P

Edited July 6, 2015 by Krak_Nihilus

[AlphaHorseman]

OP as in Original Poster. That was to me.

 

Yep yep.

It was mentioned in devstream 55 and ca be found in overview. There was also other topic by dev but I can't find it.

https://warframe.com/news/devstream-55-overview

As much as I'd like that to happen devs didn't say a word about wanting or trying to do something with it. But they did say they want to nerf gmag and they said specifically why - and the reason is, not very surprisingly, draco. So I simply suggest lesser evil.

 

True, it's annoying that they're treating a symptom of the system though, rather than the core of the issue.

first off im no OP new to the game is one thing someone being op is another... i only use greedy pull in t4 defense since everyone just wants to frost, mesa in the snowglobe.. i dont blame people for that either cuz our number only goes to 30 where as the enemy goes as high as 80 i seen so far so maybe if they condensed the numbers armor to enemy lazy tactics wouldnt be a huge issue... but then again the drops are S#&$ty at times that you have to do i dont know say 5 intercept missions to get 1 mag prime system.. people wouldnt sit at B with a mesa frost gmag.. to just get by in it cuz its over extensive grinding

 

OP means Original Poster, as the other person was thankfully willing to point out. But yes, the drops are hell, it's an issue that's been creating combos like these two for quite a while now. It isn't the fault of the frames for being effective at farming, it's on DE to make the farming more rewarding and varied if they want us to change tactics.

im rank 19 and have all frames, sentinels, kubrow, large arrway of weapons some of which have 4 - 7 polarizations on them, and spent 0$ on plat if you think this game is grindy lol you need to play more video games.

Good for you. Majority of the player base aren't rank 19's with that huge amount of time on their hands. 

[Krak_Nihilus]

Who force you go to ds with public squad? O_o

And if you do why you complaining? o_O

Noone. Who forced you to take mesa to a public game? Noone. We made decisions. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to take mesa to pugs but I'm not going to say thay I have fun when a mesa instakills everything. Yes when I get a mesa like that I leave.

[AlphaHorseman]

Yes, but even if the grind was perfectly managed and had no issues Greedy Pull would still be a problem. There's nothing else quite like it when it comes to enabling camping, which is apparently a playstyle DE doesn't want in their game.

True. Ah I remember reading another way to change Greedy Pull to make it more appealing to team play:

 

In light of DE's Greedy Pull proposal (only Mag can pull her share of pickups), please consider also making resources and mods similar to credits, where one player picking them up distributes the resources and mods to the whole squad.

 

Ammo, Health and Energy Orbs remain client-side (each player has their own instance of those pickups, like how it is now), so with DE's Greedy Pull change, Mag cannot pull her allies' share. This way, Mag can still collect the needed resources and mods for her squad, while not continue to contribute to the stand-in-place-and-spam-abilities setups made for Draco and the like.

 

Players that dislike Greedy Mags moving their ammo, health, and energy around when they need them most, like a Nekros making a Health Orb safety net, can relax and not be annoyed.

 

This also makes it so the player experience is more fluid, as one player discovering a rare resource or mod means the whole team gets it. They can focus on returning to combat and have fun without needing to backtrack for loots, but having ammo, health and energy scattered about also promotes run & gun play as we know it.

 

Credit goes to PsiWarp for that post.

 

Source:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/484616-july-3rd-community-hot-topics/

[Ceryk]

Nerfing Greedy Pull has ultimately has nothing to do with Mesa. It has to do with a pervasive playstyle of extreme laziness that DE and an apparently large number of players disapproves of and wants to be done away with. Greedy Pull only made the issue worse because DE didn't think that one through before introducing the augment into the game.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Ceryk

[EinheriarJudith]

Nerfing Greedy Pull has ultimately has nothing to do with Mesa. It has to do with a pervasive playstyle of extreme laziness that DE and an apparently large number of players disapproves of and wants to be done away with. Greedy Pull only made the issue worse because DE didn't think that one through before introducing the augment into the game.

i dont ever praise players that wish to circumvent game mechanics im in agreement 100%

Edited July 6, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[Krak_Nihilus]

Nerfing Greedy Pull has ultimately has nothing to do with Mesa. It has to do with a pervasive playstyle of extreme laziness that DE and an apparently large number of players disapproves of and wants to be done away with.

It has everything to do with mesa. When was the last time you saw someone asking for a saryn+gmag farm combo? I never did. That's because everyone uses Mesa for farming amd nearly only her. Farming will never stop no matter what DE changes.

[--VIIA--Ijenius]

Noone. Who forced you to take mesa to a public game? Noone. We made decisions.

If you go to public game you must understand that you can meet there players with various gameplay styles. Even with nonfun for you.

Disprove this means go against common sense. But asking to nerf some frame instead of making "invite only" squad with comfortable for you frame-weapon-auras set is even worse. It`s like asking for the magic button "Make Everything OK".

 

When was the last time you saw someone asking for a saryn+gmag farm combo? I never did. That's because everyone uses Mesa for farming amd nearly only her.

When did high-performance farming became bad thing? (in game about farming and grinding, to be honest) And why you think that you can determine for others what is good and what is bad?

Edited July 6, 2015 by Ijenius

[CTanGod]

If they nerf G Mag they can nerf alot more farm strategies and add value to Carrier once again cause G Mag is not used only for energy pickups it's used to AFK farm the entire map not leaving your spot at all, atleast Carrier's range is smaller and there's a delay between the Vacum usage.

[Krak_Nihilus]

If you go to public game you must understand that you can meet there players with various gameplay styles. Even with nonfun for you.

Disprove this means go against common sense. But asking to nerf some frame instead of making "invite only" squad with comfortable for you frame-weapon-auras set is even worse. It`s like asking for the magic button "Make Everything OK".

That is barely a nerf for public games and mesas that go public will not notice it at all. Which mesa goes public with a gmag that's there solely to feed her energy? In normal play nothing will change and mesa will keep annoying me in public games which I accept.

[Krak_Nihilus]

If they nerf G Mag they can nerf alot more farm strategies and add value to Carrier once again cause G Mag is not used only for energy pickups it's used to AFK farm the entire map not leaving your spot at all, atleast Carrier's range is smaller and there's a delay between the Vacum usage.

It'll nerf pretty much only one farm strategy, everything else can be done as easily with Trinity. Survival camping? That was a thing long before gmag came to be.

[Krak_Nihilus]

When did high-performance farming became bad thing? (in game about farming and grinding, to be honest)

When did I say it's bad? I didn't. Yes I suggest nerf to one of farm methods, which will be nerfed regardless, just in other way. That's because devs don't like it.

 

And why you think that you can determine for others what is good and what is bad?

What? You mean me saying that mesa is less of a teamplayer than gmag? It has nothing to do with idea of good and evil. Also killing everything for your teammates and giving them free exp and resources is not teamplay, that's farming. And before you say O do, I don't have any problems with farming. But fevs apparently do so I'm trying to convince them to make changes that will be less intrusive but with same/similar effect on what they actually want to change.

 

Edited July 6, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed hidden post

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

How? Simply make mesa incapable of picking up energy orbs during peacemaker.

Why? Because gmag is greatly used in teamplay outside of camping and draco. It's more teamfriendly then mesa's 4th skill, which is not team friendly at all.

How? Simply make mesa incapable of picking up energy orbs during peacemaker.

Will it stop draco, camping or any other farm method that DE doesn't like? No. Nothing will. If you nerf gmag people will simply go back to Trinity.

How? Simply make mesa incapable of picking up energy orbs during peacemaker.

EDIT: change thread title and flashed out the actual proposition because people were jumping to conclusion that I see mesa as op and want peacemaker to be useless.

 

I expected them to take make it so no frame could pick up energy orbs while channeling an ability when they made the changes to energy restore packs. It's seems like an oversight because at the time of the energy pack changes there wasn't a reliable way to get energy orbs while channeling. It is taking a long time to fix this though.

[--VIIA--Ijenius]

It'll nerf pretty much only one farm strategy

"Simply make mesa incapable of picking up energy orbs during peacemaker." This? Haha, this will not stop anything but made only one thing: Mesa`s players will turn off 4th, drop 1-2 energy tablet, get energy, and pres 4 again :D

[Krak_Nihilus]

"Simply make mesa incapable of picking up energy orbs during peacemaker." This? Haha, this will not stop anything but made only one thing: Mesa`s players will turn off 4th, drop 1-2 energy tablet, get energy, and pres 4 again :D

I know. I said it already and I'm not claiming that it's the ultimate fix for everything. It actually has many more holes then the one you mentioned and I'm too lazy to list any of them now. Read my posts on previous page and you'll find some of them. What matters and what should appeal to devs is that it fixes what they're directly targeting with gmag nerf - staying in peacemaker for a looooong time.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Krak_Nihilus

[NN13]

I have debated on this topic way too many times to start that again. So, I am going to quote myself from another topic and leave.

 

 

Are you sure 'the problem IS GMag'?

 

If it was so, then we wouldn't have had the Vivergate Crisis? Were you there when that happened? If you were, you would know that GMag didn't exist back then.

 

The main problems are (in order of decreasing importance) -

1. Massive Grind and RNG.

For example, take the ongoing Tac Alert Endurance. It gives us the Gate Crash mods. So, I went in with my Excalibur and played 2 times,only to end up with 3k credits caches. Then, I realised the grind needed and I switched to our farm-favourite Draco team.

2. Broken enemy spawn mechanism, Stationary Game mode. Like Interceptions and Defenses.

3. Small tilesets not suited for endless missions. Like Draco and Stephano. Our frames can cover the whole freaking map with abilities.

4. Stationary Powers like Peacemaker and Effigy, mainly Peacemaker though. A game which has Ninjas is not supposed to have a power that makes your frame a turret. I like what DE did with Exalted Blade. Abilites should be like that. Not press 4 and boom!

 

Only with Gmag?

Nah, mate. I can give Mesa 300 energy in 2 seconds with my Trinity(260 energy in 2.25 seconds, to be precise).

 

Just leaving a single post because I am pretty tired of making people understand that GMag is not the problem.

[Krak_Nihilus]

I have debated on this topic way too many times to start that again. So, I am going to quote myself from another topic and leave.

Neat, just change 'gmag' to 'mesa' and it fits perfectly. I completely agree with you and I don't see mesa or gmag as a problem. Point is, devs do. And sadly they didn't mention anything about trying or wanting to change the grind or to overhaul the game modes. So I simply suggest the least invasive way in which their 'problem' can be 'fixed' - such a small nerf won't affect normal mesa gameplay whereas proposed gmag nerf will make her current use impossible (keep in mind she is not only used for draco farming or camping).

[hawker_mech]

Whats the point of making your change ? Turning off Peacemaker for a quick few seconds to pick up orbs and then go back to it wont change a thing.

[Krak_Nihilus]

Whats the point of making your change ? Turning off Peacemaker for a quick few seconds to pick up orbs and then go back to it wont change a thing.

Turning off peacemaker for a few seconds for trinity to cast vampire and then go back won't change a thing as well. My suggestion targets what they're primarily targeting with gmag nerf - staying for a long time in peacemaker without giving a damn.

[[DE]Danielle]

Moving over to Warframes/Abilities Feedback :) 

[(PSN)BossNotACapo]

I don't even play for fun anymore. It's I gotta get polymer bundle or gallium or orokin cells. Nerfed frames, powers, augments, fusion cores and syndicate exp. Nerf the grind already.

[Vasault]

Mesa's 4 needs a rework to make the player slightly more involved in using it. As is, I can literally, actually, tape down my mouse button and clear 90 percent of a defense mission.

 

is not just the fact that you click one button and see mesa do her job, is the FREAKING INSANELY OMFG RAAAAANGE !!!!!

[Monolake]

Im saying this again: Mesa ult needs a rework regardless of Greedy pull.