WernerShadow Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Had a little chat in the relay. Me and some others talked about an ash rework, some agreed some didn't ; that was to be expected. I personally think that his smoke screen could bring some utility.How? Well by becoming an actual smoke bomb that could incapacitate the enemies and open them to finishers, a good example is how smoke bombs work in assassins creed games. Bladestorm could be reworked too, i don't have a specific idea for this but it could be better. Even Ash needs a bit of CC, his smokescreen has great potential for becoming a CC ability. Also, from my point of view, every warframe has to be reworked to be end game viable, by that i mean the raids; think about it, wouldn't it be great to be able to bring your favourite warframe and still be useful in a trial? ( of course there are people who main Trinity or Loki and that are useful in raid, but is not them i talk about; i still want to see the day where in recruiting chat people ask for Ash, Hydroid and some other undemanded warframes right now). To this i could agree as long as i get to keep blade storm and smoke screen stuns better a slight tweak will be welcome but not a rework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chub_N_Tuck Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) I love when people try to tell me how to play Ash, when I spent $90 on my first PA to get his PROFILE PICTURE... This is really what I see? Tell me I didn't read this. This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. You spending the money and getting Ash Prime doesn't tell you at all about your skills. Your arguments are weak. The others pointed out the fact and you simply denied it. Armor scaling in heavy enemies and even on small enemies like lancers block a LOT of our damage. Ash's shuriken augment removes armor from enemies on hit, making it very easy to kill. His abilities are pretty damn badass. There are two shurikens each cast, and with some efficiecy mods, you can spam it. It's not too weak, but it's also not too overpowered. I really like that augment. 2k damage at base, and my build has 200%+ damage, so it's double that. With all the calculations in mind, AoE 4k+ damage on hit + bleed proc damage is very high even on the high level missions. He's just harder to play around than other frames. You can't obviously expect DE to be able to balance frames so that they all require equivalent player skills. Not to mention, his kit is not really in a bad position. It's not as bad as Ember or Hydroid. There are other frames that REALLY need some serious touch. Ash can wait to be honest. WIth that said, however, I know ash has some problems. But it's not really only his problem. The problem is the armors on warframes. After Excalibur got over 200+ armor with his rework, I really hope to see overall buff on the armors in general. 15 armor on some of the casting frames is too low tbh. Of course you can cc enemies like hell and don't worry about getting hit sometimes, but they are just too squishy when you try to run around focusing objectives, like moving from one excavator to another in excavations. Rhino and frost still sitting at 190, but ash prime has 150 and some frames have more or less. Armor in frames became really vague in terms of their role. Edited July 12, 2015 by Chuck_NoMiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruelCrow Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Peace maker is not a single attack nor is exalted blade we are talking single hit damage and in that Ash out classes them by miles not to mention take away a frost dome to give mesa time to work and she drop like a bad habbet same with excal no CC and his survivability goes down the drain sure he auto blocks till his stamina runs out but blocking has never killed anything in warframe By that logic, Vectis should be better than Soma P and Boltor P since Vectis does more damage per shot. There's no need to do 100k damage to one enemy when it has 5k health and there's 50 enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)AzureAsura Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Ash doesn't really need a rework while I agree that smokescreen could use a tweak, but overall no he doesn't mod him correctly and you're gtg I haven't had problems 2hours in t4 survivals with him the main problem is people dont know how to mod him, they dont understand how to engage with him and finally the lets camp mentality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TrueAlastar Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) 1. first off, there are only a few frames that anyone picks for trials. Trials are all about puzzles and CC. Picking a frame for Trial has nothing to do with how good a frame is. By that logic, DE would have to rework every frame into a CC master in order to be valuable. no. Also- Devs state that Cc will decrease in effectiveness the more theyre used with against the sentients, so the Void favorite frames may not be as useful as you think. 2. Ash's skills are best for killing groups of enemies in a cluster. he is great at extermination, capture and survival. Mesa's PM is only OP in defense missions where she has clear line of site and distance from all spawn points. Ash is not a defensive frame, so i dont know how you figure his skills are best for that. Mesa shoots at random enemies around her, Ash's BS is targeted. Mesa has damage fall off, Ash can still be effective wave 40 on. In the time it takes for mesa to kill a highly armored target, Ash could BS an entire group and leave the survivors bleeding damage. As far as being a high damage stealthy offensive frame, Ash is by far the best. In fact, he's the ONLY high damage stealthy offensive frame in the game, and he does it well Well said, well said. I agree with all your points, but also believe his smoke screen could get a rework. I saw someone on here explain a smoke ability that worked kinda like a cross between radial blind and snow globe, but without the complete protection of snowglobe, and it's slowing, in exchange for solid accuracy drops and a short CC when coming into contact with the smoke. If Ash got something like that, he'd have EVERYTHING he needed. Edited July 12, 2015 by (PS4)TrueAlastar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WernerShadow Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 For those intrested me and MarPro15 tested if Excalibur's augment radial finisher does affect blade storm here is a link to our findings findinghttps://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/489275-ash-and-excal-using-radial-finisher-augment/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGsniper Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Personally, I don't think he needs a huge rework. I think he just needs a slightly longer Smoke duration and possibly to be able to teleport wherever with Teleport, instead of just teleporting to an enemy. Example: Valkyr's Ripline can attach to walls and pull her to higher heights, except when aimed on an enemy which brings the enemy to her. Ash could teleport wherever, except when he aims and teleports to an enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Ash needs no re-work.... Ash needs meaningful CC and always has... That about it. He's not getting it... We know this due to the fact that Ash players begged for it for more than a year and got damage instead. Bladestorm needs camera tweaks and whatever issues others are having ironed out (I don't have those issues). FYI: If you are using Smokescreen only for pre-emptive Invisibility, you are doing it wrong and should be playing Loki. PS: Lot of posts advocating changing Ash into something they'd want to play... That's idea fodder for a different frame. If you don't like Ash, don't play him... It's really that simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Brennon Cook Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Peace maker is not a single attack nor is exalted blade we are talking single hit damage and in that Ash out classes them by miles not to mention take away a frost dome to give mesa time to work and she drop like a bad habbet same with excal no CC and his survivability goes down the drain sure he auto blocks till his stamina runs out but blocking has never killed anything in warframe You make no sense. Are you saying Ash can do a T4 Defence without a frost? Mesa can clear a room in a second with her peacemakers, while it would take Ash 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ov3rd0se Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yeah, I only use Ash for Archwing revive fodder. He's garbage unless you like repeatedly hitting 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Brennon Cook Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) This is really what I see? Tell me I didn't read this. This is probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. You spending the money and getting Ash Prime doesn't tell you at all about your skills. Your arguments are weak. The others pointed out the fact and you simply denied it. Armor scaling in heavy enemies and even on small enemies like lancers block a LOT of our damage. Ash's shuriken augment removes armor from enemies on hit, making it very easy to kill. His abilities are pretty damn badass. There are two shurikens each cast, and with some efficiecy mods, you can spam it. It's not too weak, but it's also not too overpowered. I really like that augment. 2k damage at base, and my build has 200%+ damage, so it's double that. With all the calculations in mind, AoE 4k+ damage on hit + bleed proc damage is very high even on the high level missions. He's just harder to play around than other frames. You can't obviously expect DE to be able to balance frames so that they all require equivalent player skills. Not to mention, his kit is not really in a bad position. It's not as bad as Ember or Hydroid. There are other frames that REALLY need some serious touch. Ash can wait to be honest. WIth that said, however, I know ash has some problems. But it's not really only his problem. The problem is the armors on warframes. After Excalibur got over 200+ armor with his rework, I really hope to see overall buff on the armors in general. 15 armor on some of the casting frames is too low tbh. Of course you can cc enemies like hell and don't worry about getting hit sometimes, but they are just too squishy when you try to run around focusing objectives, like moving from one excavator to another in excavations. Rhino and frost still sitting at 190, but ash prime has 150 and some frames have more or less. Armor in frames became really vague in terms of their role. Is that the only post you read? I'm glad because it's pretty irrelevant and not intended to be serious. But I'm glad you wrote a paragraph about it, meanwhile you bought it too.But I'm glad you think me owning a profile picture makes me superiour to people without it. Edited July 12, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)AzureAsura Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 You make no sense. Are you saying Ash can do a T4 Defence without a frost? Mesa can clear a room in a second with her peacemakers, while it would take Ash 30. Actually ash can do t4 defense without frost and mesa I've done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Brennon Cook Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Actually ash can do t4 defense without frost and mesa I've done it Anybody can do it. But a single Mesa and a Single Ash without a snow globe will both last about the same rounds, despite Ash being a solo frame and Mesa depending on a team - if she's planning on spamming her 4. Edited July 12, 2015 by (XB1)Spartan Cook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WernerShadow Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 You make no sense. Are you saying Ash can do a T4 Defence without a frost? Mesa can clear a room in a second with her peacemakers, while it would take Ash 30. Before i would have said no he cant now i say give me 1 excal with radial finisher and we can go all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfectStranger Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Ash problems:- 4 way too powerful - the other 3 abilities are meh...Yes it needs a rework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Brennon Cook Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Before i would have said no he cant now i say give me 1 excal with radial finisher and we can go all day Of course, but you can say that with any Frame. Radial blind and Molecular Prime is powerful enough for a Hydroid to be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latronico Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Bladestorm sucks. When people asked for a more cool 4th ability, we expected to be able to act like a real ninja. Not sit down and watch him do all the funny things by his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Brennon Cook Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Bladestorm sucks. When people asked for a more cool 4th ability, we expected to be able to act like a real ninja. Not sit down and watch him do all the funny things by his own. "Yeah but my DPS calculator says it good, so it's good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MikeCopa Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 This thread got salty pretty fast... On topic: The only ability rework Ash needs is for his Smokescreen and some new updated Bladestorm animations. Other than that he could use a passive and hes perfectly balanced Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract7777 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) Some Ashes in this thread are I think misinterpreting the OP. The OP is ranting a bit, but I don't think he is against Ash ever being touched at all, he just don't want an actual rework -- he thinks that would be too drastic, and many Ash players clearly agree with that. I don't think any Ash would reject a few tweaks, but I want tweaks, not a rework that drastically changes the functionality of any of his abilities. Maybe some of his abilities could stand to be buffed slightly, but I don't want him "reworked". Edited July 12, 2015 by Tesseract7777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McTaz Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Is that your mentality? "Leave him as trash, leave him as a low level frame and useless in the endgame". I have 300 in mission hours on Ash, and he's trash. His amazing Bladestorm ability is pretty terrible against level 90 enemies, and his SS only lasts 8 seconds at base. Not to mention even his Primed Version is super fragile, as he has no armour. Ash needs a rework, if this game is going down the path of providing an end game then all frames need to be viable for it. End of discussion. he is not trash lol. lololol. ur'e funny bro.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)iBoiz Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 (edited) You make no sense. Are you saying Ash can do a T4 Defence without a frost? Mesa can clear a room in a second with her peacemakers, while it would take Ash 30. Guess I'll just have to show you a video. Ash vs 20 Lvl 95 Heavy Gunners https://youtu.be/zgvMIjSdSrM?t=10s vs 20 Lvl 95 Bombards https://youtu.be/zgvMIjSdSrM?t=2m6s Mesa https://youtu.be/B_eiJvDJYOs?t=38s TLDW: Ash easily clears a room with 20 Heavy Gunners, Bombards from the first try. Mesa can't even kill 3 Heavy Gunners. I kept trying, hid from enemies so only few are visible at a time, used her 2 and 3 killing as much as I could but couldn't kill fast enough. Edited July 12, 2015 by (PS4)iBoiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr3vi3R Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I love when people try to tell me how to play Ash, when I spent $90 on my first PA to get his PROFILE PICTURE... Latest News: You can't buy skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FissionStorm Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 The only thing Ash could use reworking on is maybe the animation of his bladestorm. The actual skill set is fine. It just may not be to a particular players liking, and they can always use someone else. The only thing that's truly missing on Ash is crowd control, and not every frame is going to have that. The stun on his 2 is enough CC in my opnion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Brennon Cook Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Guess I'll just have to show you a video. Ash vs 20 Lvl 95 Heavy Gunners https://youtu.be/zgvMIjSdSrM?t=10s vs 20 Lvl 95 Bombards https://youtu.be/zgvMIjSdSrM?t=2m6s Mesa https://youtu.be/B_eiJvDJYOs?t=38s TLDW: Ash easily clears a room with 20 Heavy Gunners, Bombards from the first try. Mesa can't even kill 3 Heavy Gunners. I kept trying, hid from enemies so only few are visible at a time, used her 2 and 3 killing as much as I could but couldn't kill fast enough. Nice. But Mesa would have x4 corrosive projections, and 3 teammates helping her shoot. While Ash is doing all that damage to those 95 bombards and gunners, he's preventing his team from shooting them... So in a situation where a team of 4 has an Ash or Mesa, the Mesa squad would kill them faster. In the situation that you're actually "crazy" enough to bring a peacemaker or Bladestorm build if you're planning on going to that high of a level content. You'd bring a smokescreen build or a shooting gallery build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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