Frost Rework (U17 Megathread Rework)

[[DE]Momaw]

I like the freeze affect of Avalanche, but the range is lacking.  I wouldn't mind if the damage was reduced to 1000 or lower with the range increased to 20 or 25 meters, to be more of a freezing ability than a damage dealer.

 

Out of curiosity, are you using modded range on your Frost?

[Darkmoone1]

This frame quickly went from one of my least favorite frames before the rework( due to the lack of creativity of his ice powers and how straightfoward the frame was) to one of my favorite frames in the game(Up there with Chroma, New Excalibur, and Loki with how you use your abilities). 

 

 

Side-note: Anyone else think Chilling Globe is amazing since you can push enemies out of the globe and now they can potentially freeze if they want to try to get back in? 

[Sci_Ant]

This frame quickly went from one of my least favorite frames before the rework( due to the lack of creativity of his ice powers and how straightfoward the frame was) to one of my favorite frames in the game(Up there with Chroma, New Excalibur, and Loki with how you use your abilities). 

 

 

Side-note: Anyone else think Chilling Globe is amazing since you can push enemies out of the globe and now they can potentially freeze if they want to try to get back in? 

 

It really depends on your playstyle. I personally removed as it is redundant for me since I'm spamming a globe every 5 seconds inside another to keep on stacking them so the globe never goes down.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Frost is now better, but not great.

Skill 1 projectile speed is still too slow.

Skill 2 doesn't change much.

Skill 3 is still the main skill.

Skill 4 cast speed is reduced, need natural talent if you want to use it, and this skill need power duration.

In the end it's just better, not great.

Can you just remove that cast speed nerf?

Well, ther's 2 possible playstyles now as i see it...somewhat focused on duration and defensive or offensive with focus on str.

You'll have to play with natural talent anyway to get the best offensive result and the defensive cast has the luxory of protection in the bubble on a still pretty badass result.

I'm personally still waiting for the patch on ps4 but this looks pretty good to me....

He doesn't have to be godlike. He has to work. And this happened.

[aerosoul1337]

Cast Skill 1 at a globe from outside will now destroy it, quite handy.

This seems not listed in update note.

[plsql]

1 and 2 - it was nothing, it is nothing. no changes in gameplay ^^

 

no duration at globe - nice! i like it.

 

ultimate - quite weak. check equinox, misa, ash, saryn, etc.

 

not a dd frame? hmm, ok. then give much more utility to ultimate skill. remove power duration effect from frozen time, for example. or only melee weapon use to affected enemies. or... something.

[Sci_Ant]

ultimate - quite weak. check equinox, misa, ash, saryn, etc.

 

not a dd frame? hmm, ok. then give much more utility to ultimate skill. remove power duration effect from frozen time, for example. or only melee weapon use to affected enemies. or... something.

 

If you use base duration, maximum range and maximum efficiency, it seems perfect as a spammable CC ability to me. Frost is defender, not a killer or a utility frame.

[Grand-Dozer]

I think the only thing I would change at this point (the rework has gone over very well) is to make the ground based effect of the Freeze ability, the ice patch, affected by power duration for how long it persists on the ground, and that the chill effect on Ice Wave to also be affected by power duration.

[Wolfpack75]

I never used my Frost before the rework due to all the drawbacks that have been mentioned. Now he is my go ton for defense/survival missions due to the Globe stacking and the lack of a duration.

I also like using his avalanche ability when a large group of enemies are clustered together.

Not the best frame but he has his uses.

[Trackshot]

I found it to be a almost perfect rework. Good job DE, really made frost cool again!

 

Now only if Freeze projectile speed was a bit faster, then it would be perfect.

 

Also... should'nt we update some animations for his powers? I mean, just cast Ice Wave while jumping... Why is Frost punching the "floor" (more like thin air) again? Loved what was done to Avalanche though, cool moves!

[Volinus7]

Cold Vs Ice patch on the floor VS Frozen Solid

 

Cold [Normal Ice procs and Normal Ice wave]

Slow enemies to a certain degree

Enemies still get procs but damage overtime ticks slower

 

Ice patch on the floor [Frost's Freeze and Ice Wave Impedance]

Greatly slow enemies

Enemies still get procs but damage overtime ticks slower

Enemies must touch the ground.

 

Frozen Solid [Frost's Freeze direct hit, SnowGlobe/ChillingGlobe and Avalanche]

Enemies are frozen solid. Can't move or attack.

Enemies don't take any procs.

Damage over time doesn't tick.

[Wolfpack75]

I would like to see a situation where Frost, Ember, Chroma, and any other elemental aligned frames are granted some immunity to Ice, fire, etc.

 

So when Frost is in a cold area he would be buffed against Ice damage or shield loss. 

 

This could be countered by adding a debuff where an arctic extremis would take less damage from Frost's powers and/or Frost takes more damage from fire. 

 

But other than that currently Frost is purely a defensive frame.

[Hypernaut1]

I would like to see a situation where Frost, Ember, Chroma, and any other elemental aligned frames are granted some immunity to Ice, fire, etc.

 

So when Frost is in a cold area he would be buffed against Ice damage or shield loss. 

 

This could be countered by adding a debuff where an arctic extremis would take less damage from Frost's powers and/or Frost takes more damage from fire. 

 

But other than that currently Frost is purely a defensive frame.

Frost is pretty good at offense now. His slows and freezes leave enemies open now.

[Tymerc]

I know I am late to the party, but I like these changes so far. Specifically because some of the ideas I and other mains suggested became reality. 

 

Especially the armor buff. It's much better at 705 (with the proper mods/helm).

 

Oh and removing the timer from Snow Globe. I cannot stress enough how great that change is. It was so awful when it was plagued by both a timer and health bar. It's much more manageable and reasonable now, in terms of mods.

 

Although, I have not tested yet if they increased the base range of Snow Globes like I and a few others requested. If not, it's no big deal I suppose.

 

Thank you, DE. You made playing my main even more enjoyable despite being absent for quite a long time.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Tymerc

[plsql]

If you use base duration, maximum range and maximum efficiency, it seems perfect as a spammable CC ability to me. Frost is defender, not a killer or a utility frame.

yes, but! you have good snow globe (really low power duration) build or you have cc build. two 1-button alternatives. not good, for me.

[Sci_Ant]

yes, but! you have good snow globe (really low power duration) build or you have cc build. two 1-button alternatives. not good, for me.

 

I have 77.5 % Power Duration from a Maxed Primed Continuity, Rank 4 Fleeting Expertise and Maxed Transient Fortitude.

 

This gives me 9.3 seconds on Freeze and 6.2 seconds on Avalanche freeze, which seems pretty decent for CC to me. I also have Max Range and Max Efficiency, meaning I am not limited to just 2 powers but use all powers when required and they are balanced for my playstyle.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[JokerVictor]

I had an absolute blast playing Frost this weekend for the event.

My thoughts:

1.) Freeze - Now the absolute perfect compliment to the Tigris.  Still a little hard to aim, but if the enemies are moving fast, just shoot the floor.

 

2.) Ice Wave (+augment) - Holy Mother of God.  This + Molecular Prime = happy fun times.  Frost now has an amazing and reliable CC skill; you can lock down whole sections of the map with a single cast (before it took too much energy to really be effective as a CC).  Damage isn't great, but I really don't see that as a downside given the effectiveness of the CC.

 

3.) Snow Globe - Thank you.  It was a simple and remarkably effective change.  This, more than anything else, has really opened Frost up to be way more FUN to play in high-level defense.  I can move now!  Huzzah!

 

4.) Avalanche - Finally, frost has a good 'oh S#&$!' button.  

 

I was playing a pure battlemage all weekend, swinging my Jat Kittag with a furious vengeance and freezing everything in sight.  I feel totally unkillable, with 1300 shields and 740 health with 300 armor and amazing CC and defensive abilities.  I didn't go down once, in multiple T4 runs, the event alerts, boss runs, G3 attack.... Exceptional frame now, I will probably use him as my main for the forseeable future.

P.S. - And for those who say that Frost isn't a melee frame... Lol, use a bigger hammer.

Edited August 17, 2015 by JokerVictor

[[DE]Momaw]

Is Avalanche armor reduction based on power strength, or what?

 

I'm talking about the reduction to enemy's armor while they are frozen by Avalanche.

* The game says this value is 60%

* The wiki says this value not affected by power strength

* In actual testing, adding high power strength did affect the numbers I was seeing, but not by as much as it should:

** Level 100 corrupted bombard with Mk1 braton, standard power strength frost build saw 3 damage per shot and 4 on head shots

** With 170% power strength, saw 4 damage per shot and 7 on head shots.

** 0.6 base armor reduction times 1.7 power strength = 1.02 armor reduction i.e. target shouldn't have any armor at all.

 

It also can't be just adding power strength bonus like Molecular Prime does, because 0.6 base reduction + 0.7 from power strength bonus is still more than 100% armor reduction.

[Sci_Ant]

Is Avalanche armor reduction based on power strength, or what?

 

I'm talking about the reduction to enemy's armor while they are frozen by Avalanche.

* The game says this value is 60%

* The wiki says this value not affected by power strength

* In actual testing, adding high power strength did affect the numbers I was seeing, but not by as much as it should:

** Level 100 corrupted bombard with Mk1 braton, standard power strength frost build saw 3 damage per shot and 4 on head shots

** With 170% power strength, saw 4 damage per shot and 7 on head shots.

** 0.6 base armor reduction times 1.7 power strength = 1.02 armor reduction i.e. target shouldn't have any armor at all.

 

It also can't be just adding power strength bonus like Molecular Prime does, because 0.6 base reduction + 0.7 from power strength bonus is still more than 100% armor reduction.

 

The ability seems to work with DE's new Diminishing returns system that they haven't explained the formula for. Even Equinox's Pacify ability works like this and is really difficult to mod for since even with maxed Power Strength you won't get more than around 83 to 85 % damage reduction.

 

I had made a thread about this a while back, and someone cared enough to explain how the new formula worked, though I don't quite understand how I could apply it to Frost's case. The formula is in this post > https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/508917-equinox-pacify-ability-has-diminishing-returns-falloff-with-range-and-broken-efficiency-data-and-videos/#entry5683740

[[DE]Glen]

Is Avalanche armor reduction based on power strength, or what?

 

I'm talking about the reduction to enemy's armor while they are frozen by Avalanche.

* The game says this value is 60%

* The wiki says this value not affected by power strength

* In actual testing, adding high power strength did affect the numbers I was seeing, but not by as much as it should:

** Level 100 corrupted bombard with Mk1 braton, standard power strength frost build saw 3 damage per shot and 4 on head shots

** With 170% power strength, saw 4 damage per shot and 7 on head shots.

** 0.6 base armor reduction times 1.7 power strength = 1.02 armor reduction i.e. target shouldn't have any armor at all.

 

It also can't be just adding power strength bonus like Molecular Prime does, because 0.6 base reduction + 0.7 from power strength bonus is still more than 100% armor reduction.

 

Straight from the Horse's Mouth: the wiki is correct and the armor reduction is fixed.

Straight from the Horse's Mouth: the wiki is correct and the armor reduction is fixed.

 

Hold on -- the script is tricky, I'll double check.

[Scottie_Auren]

Yea, clarification on how avalanche affects armor would be appreciated.

 

 

Does it scale with power strength?  (If so, how?)

 

Can we stack it multiple times?  (I would hope yes; it's annoying having to run 4x CP.)

[Insizer]

Nothing much to say. DE, you did great on Frost's rework.

[[DE]Glen]

I was wrong -- it is effect by power strength but capped at 90% reduction.

[Valiant]

P.S. - And for those who say that Frost isn't a melee frame... Lol, use a bigger hammer.

Still doesn't mean his passive his particularly great. Let alone Frost Prime's little 'bonus' of small shields and that's it, while Excalibur and Mesa run around with considerably more interesting passives.

 

Still hoping there's changes in both these areas.

[Scottie_Auren]

Nothing much to say. DE, you did great on Frost's rework.

 

Seconded. I absolutely love the Frost rework. 

 

 

... now if only I could get my frame looking less dorky. Here's hoping for Frost Prime Access so my frame gets a visual revamp and cool accessories, ;p