Morec0 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 You know, I got to thinking about it and I think what some people are saying about the Tenno being mentally damaged and only ever knowing battle MIGHT be something to consider more. I mean, what were they pretty much raised to do? Trained to do? To fight in a war. These were basically child soldiers of some description. Not only that, but in the Mag Codex when the Tenno rescues the soldier what does it do? It puts a gun in their hand, telling the soldier that he WILL keep fighting - a soldier who had just nearly died, just nearly been killed and was bleeding out in space. There was no compassion, "it would not pity me. I was to die on my feet, by its side." NOT ONLY THAT but in Hidden Messages when Lotus is ordering Mirage to get out of there, what is the Mirage's response? To laugh and keep fighting. To TEAR THE HEADS of the Sentients off of them as they swarm. And when she does get captured what is her response to Lotus' lies about sending help - her attempt to comfort her? She just smiles - it could be a "thank you for your try" kind of smile, OR it could be a sarcastic "yes, yes I'm sure there is" kind of smile. A soldier resigned to their fate. So, there may be something to that train of thought. I'll look more at it when we get more lore updates. It certainly would give the New Loka an honest-to-go reason to be reflected in the Tenno (which is a theory of mine for all Syndicates) - the Tenno trying to regain some level of humanity, their soul, trying to get back some semblance of what had been stolen from them by the Orokin - to feel human again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Another thing: could the Exlius Adapter be connected to our non-Prime Warframes? When Regor finds it within the tomb he describes it as "some kind of primitive forma?" - a description that fits perfectly with what it's capable of, adding a singular and specific slot and only being able to be applied once. Maybe that's it, maybe it's just a justification for it to show up as a quest reward, or maybe... If we when assume that the Exlius is then a Sentient creation - which would fit with how it looks - then maybe we could say the non-Prime Warframes share such an origin? It could also line up with the plan - get the Tenno out of their Prime Warframes, locking them away within the Void, and into less-power Sentient made versions might have been something that would have helped them with the termination of the Tenno. This would explain why we only wake up in non-Primes, but this doesn't 100% solve the issue of non-Primes as quest rewards - Limbo, Chroma, Mirage specifically - or maybe even why we can regain so many of them. What do ya'll think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 It's a pretty common thing to have your pal over the radio be a villain. Bioshock, for one. Would you kindly kill the Orokin? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 -snip- Tenno have a very similar honor/war/bloodshed code to the Elites (Halo), I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) You think pity is compassion? That Tenno displayed more mercy than you know. It could have left him there to die futilely. Instead it gave him the strength to fight on and fulfil his purpose while he still had strength left. That Tenno elevated that soldier from just another casualty into a tragic hero. As for Mirage, perhaps she's just too good at seeing through lies and maybe she appreciates cold hard truths more than empty nothings meant to soothe weaker souls. I'm afraid what was written about the Tenno has already displayed far more humanity than if they had stood around wringing their hands trying to console themselves and each other with eyes brimming with tears. That is not humanity. That is a poor caricature of how people face tremendous hardship and privation. You know, I got to thinking about it and I think what some people are saying about the Tenno being mentally damaged and only ever knowing battle MIGHT be something to consider more. I mean, what were they pretty much raised to do? Trained to do? To fight in a war. These were basically child soldiers of some description. Not only that, but in the Mag Codex when the Tenno rescues the soldier what does it do? It puts a gun in their hand, telling the soldier that he WILL keep fighting - a soldier who had just nearly died, just nearly been killed and was bleeding out in space. There was no compassion, "it would not pity me. I was to die on my feet, by its side." NOT ONLY THAT but in Hidden Messages when Lotus is ordering Mirage to get out of there, what is the Mirage's response? To laugh and keep fighting. To TEAR THE HEADS of the Sentients off of them as they swarm. And when she does get captured what is her response to Lotus' lies about sending help - her attempt to comfort her? She just smiles - it could be a "thank you for your try" kind of smile, OR it could be a sarcastic "yes, yes I'm sure there is" kind of smile. A soldier resigned to their fate. So, there may be something to that train of thought. I'll look more at it when we get more lore updates. It certainly would give the New Loka an honest-to-go reason to be reflected in the Tenno (which is a theory of mine for all Syndicates) - the Tenno trying to regain some level of humanity, their soul, trying to get back some semblance of what had been stolen from them by the Orokin - to feel human again. Edited August 3, 2015 by Coryphaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakrana Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 You know, I got to thinking about it and I think what some people are saying about the Tenno being mentally damaged and only ever knowing battle MIGHT be something to consider more. I mean, what were they pretty much raised to do? Trained to do? To fight in a war. These were basically child soldiers of some description. Not only that, but in the Mag Codex when the Tenno rescues the soldier what does it do? It puts a gun in their hand, telling the soldier that he WILL keep fighting - a soldier who had just nearly died, just nearly been killed and was bleeding out in space. There was no compassion, "it would not pity me. I was to die on my feet, by its side." NOT ONLY THAT but in Hidden Messages when Lotus is ordering Mirage to get out of there, what is the Mirage's response? To laugh and keep fighting. To TEAR THE HEADS of the Sentients off of them as they swarm. And when she does get captured what is her response to Lotus' lies about sending help - her attempt to comfort her? She just smiles - it could be a "thank you for your try" kind of smile, OR it could be a sarcastic "yes, yes I'm sure there is" kind of smile. A soldier resigned to their fate. So, there may be something to that train of thought. I'll look more at it when we get more lore updates. It certainly would give the New Loka an honest-to-go reason to be reflected in the Tenno (which is a theory of mine for all Syndicates) - the Tenno trying to regain some level of humanity, their soul, trying to get back some semblance of what had been stolen from them by the Orokin - to feel human again. It is possible, though we're sadly lacking in the realm of conclusive proof either way. Right now, as important as it is for the player Tenno to remain silent, without any form of Tenno contexts to work with past 'standard player actions', it's a little annoying how...unsupported any interpretation we can have is. As for the New Loka thing...pretty much how I've approached it. Though possibly more resigned (Reclaiming things for humans, not self) than the affirmative Arbiters (Claiming things for the Tenno). They seem like foils, though that's down to my subjective understanding of their stances. Honestly wouldn't mind Loka + Arbiters but Perrin/Veil disallows that one. Bah. I would love if we had something like a Tenno 'Shaman' or relevant spiritual sort of character. Whatever would be culture appropriate for them, really, just someone to draw on for their side of this whole ordeal. Though I guess that does assume that the 'spiritual' decorations aren't just a surface affectation of something or other... Would you kindly kill the Orokin? :P Considering the general information for the Orokin we've got going on...they had it coming. I mean, when you break it down, the Orokin Empire's arrogance and evident hubris is literally responsible for every bad thing that's going on. Infested? They made Lephantis and were using it for something in the Rhino Prime Codex at the least. Grineer? From genetically crafted labourers to aggressive and limited soldiers, eventually a catalyst in the mutation of the corpus concept into the Corpus faction, along with all that systematic oppression and such. Sentients? From what the Crewman Synthesis implies, it was originally another labour race to serve the Empire. Now, irony is that they recognised that the thing was potentially a serious threat with their Seven Principles, but...well...desperate times, desperate measures. We all know how that backfired. Tenno? If the Orokin were confident they had complete control, then the Terminus Ceremony evidently is where it all fell apart. Though why is somewhat unclear still (Balance, Revenge? Either's possible and not exclusively so), end of the day they're another Orokin creation that, funnily enough, bit back. Either way you slice it, the Orokin Empire was a seat of incredible arrogance and conceit. They evidently possessed the power to completely and utterly mess with entire species and planets to suit their needs. So rampant perhaps they were at risk of over colonising Origin so they needed to travel to Tau to establish new colonies, to perpetuate a sick empire, though that is conjecture I will admit. I mean, in a sense, we can argue the Old War was the result of the arrogant empire failing to appreciate the scope of what it meant to make the Sentient or Proto-sentient (at that point) go off and make an inter-stellar Rail...even Rails. That is a lot of work for a long time with a lot of suffering...for what? A trumped up ape to go 'This is ours'? (Do you have a flag, anyone?) The Grineer, engineered to be dumb rock hacking brutes resented their position enough to rebel when the time came. Hard to see the Sentient failing to appreciate the injustice of such a situation. Tyl basically lampshades how the Sentient were a good thing for the Grineer, far as they're concerned, after all. For all their power, for all their prestige, the Orokin aren't exactly a shining example of something noble being lost. If there was honour in the Empire, it wasn't in its Emperors. Not when the fall came. Question then is how long had it stagnated before the end. Was Terminus a Mercy Kill, in a sense? Again, conjecture, but this is what I have to work with and it equals "Orokin Punching Bag desired". Till we get some seriously solid arguments to show the Good bits of the Empire (nothing is simple after all), I've not got much reason to argue otherwise right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Considering the general information for the Orokin we've got going on...they had it coming. Quite likely. Hell, who knows what terrible things they did to create the Tenno. Maybe all the Lotus had to do was show us what our masters did to us and we just got pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MoRockaPDX Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 When Regor finds it within the tomb he describes it as "some kind of primitive forma?" - Primordial Forma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 You think pity is compassion? That Tenno displayed more mercy than you know. It could have left him there to die futilely. Instead it gave him the strength to fight on and fulfil his purpose while he still had strength left. That Tenno elevated that soldier from just another casualty into a tragic hero. As for Mirage, perhaps she's just too good at seeing through lies and maybe she appreciates cold hard truths more than empty nothings meant to soothe weaker souls. I'm afraid what was written about the Tenno has already displayed far more humanity than if they had stood around wringing their hands trying to console themselves and each other with eyes brimming with tears. That is not humanity. That is a poor caricature of how people face tremendous hardship and privation. Pity is a form of compassion, a form of feeling another's pain and suffering. The Mag in the codex took the soldier and put a gun in its hand and charged headlong into the battle - not carried to safety, not tried to get him somewhere where he could heal. To me, that speaks to a "fight and keep fighting" mentality, though I will concede it was the weakest of my examples. And while that's potentially true, it does not alleviate the fact the Mirage continued to fight despite Lotus' orders to fall back - literally laughing them off. And this, mind you, doesn't seem like it was, or even could have been, a lie at the moment - if Mirage had fled, she might have survived. Aside from showing us the Tenno can choose their own actions, it seems to portray a Tenno engrossed in battle, laughing as she brutally rips the heads off of the enemies swarming her. Humanity would have been knowing when to retreat, taking an injured party back to safety - what is displayed, in my opinion, could indeed be the mindset of a being geared towards war and battle, no matter the sacrifice. And don't put words in my mouth - I never meant to imply that the sappy example you give would have been what suggests humanity. Primordial Forma Ah, correction noted. Point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 My head hurts. She was actively against the sentients during the war given mirage's lore. But she follows through all her orders even after the war... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Was there a casualty evacuation service for that soldier who had his face burned off? Like some kind of ambulance where paramedics could hold his hand throughout the journey? Was there some kind of hospital where he could have been taken to, where he could recover before returning to his family and friends to sip beer by the Riviera while petting his faithful dog? What good would pity do for that soldier? Where is the value? You think that "retreating" is a sign of "humanity"? Try attempting to preserve life by retreating through cluster bombs, minefields and even opfor that have cut off your escape and sealed it tight with machine guns. Doing so wouldn't make you human. It would just make you an idiot. Put in such a circumstance, it would even be better for you to keep firing your machinegun until a clutch of grenades gets thrown into your nest than to step on a mine and get your legs blown off at the hip or be shot in the back by the enemy when you had no place to run to in the first place. You don't know Mirage's tactical situation but you are making grand inferences about her humanity. I'll tell you what. Mirage was human enough to see through the Lotus's lies and also human enough to attempt to console her past her own demise. That's very good, very human writing there my friend. Of course my example was very sappy, I thought hard about how to create the most extreme counter-point. Pity is a form of compassion, a form of feeling another's pain and suffering. The Mag in the codex took the soldier and put a gun in its hand and charged headlong into the battle - not carried to safety, not tried to get him somewhere where he could heal. To me, that speaks to a "fight and keep fighting" mentality, though I will concede it was the weakest of my examples. And while that's potentially true, it does not alleviate the fact the Mirage continued to fight despite Lotus' orders to fall back - literally laughing them off. And this, mind you, doesn't seem like it was, or even could have been, a lie at the moment - if Mirage had fled, she might have survived. Aside from showing us the Tenno can choose their own actions, it seems to portray a Tenno engrossed in battle, laughing as she brutally rips the heads off of the enemies swarming her. Humanity would have been knowing when to retreat, taking an injured party back to safety - what is displayed, in my opinion, could indeed be the mindset of a being geared towards war and battle, no matter the sacrifice. And don't put words in my mouth - I never meant to imply that the sappy example you give would have been what suggests humanity. Ah, correction noted. Point still stands. Edited August 3, 2015 by Coryphaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryme Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 My head hurts. She was actively against the sentients during the war given mirage's lore. But she follows through all her orders even after the war... Was she? Mirage was the one fighting. Lotus was just the one watching her die. Keep in mind that double agents usually have to play the role to gain someone's trust. It brings up the question of why was Mirage there alone? How did she run out of energy? The tutorial cinematic shows that Lotus can tap into our systems and affect our energy reserves. Also, "I tell her I won't lose her. That I have another ship on its way. She is smiling because she knows I am lying..." You initially read it as Mirage appreciating the empty gesture of trying to reassure her. But maybe it is because she has realized that Lotus betrayed her and is amused at her pointless attempt to keep up the charade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Was she? Mirage was the one fighting. Lotus was just the one watching her die. Keep in mind that double agents usually have to play the role to gain someone's trust. It brings up the question of why was Mirage there alone? How did she run out of energy? The tutorial cinematic shows that Lotus can tap into our systems and affect our energy reserves. Also, "I tell her I won't lose her. That I have another ship on its way. She is smiling because she knows I am lying..." You initially read it as Mirage appreciating the empty gesture of trying to reassure her. But maybe it is because she has realized that Lotus betrayed her and is amused at her pointless attempt to keep up the charade. not the part i was talking about. this should be entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibro156 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFckR3SNuU8 Why don't Teshin and Arbiter of Hexis work together. They both believe in honour?_? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Stopped reading here, you're already wrong. You'll have to point to specifics that prove me wrong. My suspicion is she is not a "full-blooded" sentient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakrana Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Why don't Teshin and Arbiter of Hexis work together. They both believe in honour?_? Not all codes of honour are compatible or necessarily able to appreciate each other. Note the amount of blood shed that 'honour' disputes have caused in history. Even in today's world, people will kill for perceived affronts to 'honour'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 You'll have to point to specifics that prove me wrong. My suspicion is she is not a "full-blooded" sentient. What do you base this suspicion on? Grizzly doesn't have to prove you wrong. You haven't even proved your own claim yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai097 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 so either its just me or through part of it it sounded like the burned sentient was lotus' father and he was warning her that the other will be coming for her because of her betrayal to him and not compleating the last sequence, also she said she hid us in the second dream, so does that mean that is a seperate demension or what + this can shed new light on ordis' saying of "dont split the dream". could it be that a slip up on some ones part that knows all of the secrets can shatter the world as we know it? (i didnt read everything in the forum so i would love all oppinions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Was there a casualty evacuation service for that soldier who had his face burned off? Like some kind of ambulance where paramedics could hold his hand throughout the journey? Was there some kind of hospital where he could have been taken to, where he could recover before returning to his family and friends to sip beer by the Riviera while petting his faithful dog? What good would pity do for that soldier? Where is the value? You think that "retreating" is a sign of "humanity"? Try attempting to preserve life by retreating through cluster bombs, minefields and even opfor that have cut off your escape and sealed it tight with machine guns. Doing so wouldn't make you human. It would just make you an idiot. Put in such a circumstance, it would even be better for you to keep firing your machinegun until a clutch of grenades gets thrown into your nest than to step on a mine and get your legs blown off at the hip or be shot in the back by the enemy when you had no place to run to in the first place. You don't know Mirage's tactical situation but you are making grand inferences about her humanity. I'll tell you what. Mirage was human enough to see through the Lotus's lies and also human enough to attempt to console her past her own demise. That's very good, very human writing there my friend. Of course my example was very sappy, I thought hard about how to create the most extreme counter-point. No, I see "getting the wounded to safety" as a sign of humanity - again, DO NOT put words in my mouth. Shoving a gun into a wounded combatants hand, basically telling him "you will fight and you will die here" when he's barely able to do so, that's the sign of something that has been trained for and only for battle. No pity. No sense of "stop fighting, get the injured to safety", just "keep fighting, win the battle at all costs with whatever it takes". But that would have been YOUR CHOICE, then. Your choice to sacrifice your life. It wasn't the soldier's choice - what the Mag did would be like if you were sitting in the trench in agonizing pain, having lost a limb or two, and your sergeant pulled you up, put a gun in your hand, and said "you are going to charge the enemy". And you continue to focus on the self-admited weaker aspect of my Mirage example while ignoring the other element of it. And we do know Mirage's tactical situation "Worm ships coming out of punch! A Warframe fighting Sentients... shields are failing..." She was outnumbered, her defenses were dying, but she continued to fight. No self-preservation, just take as many Sentients with her as she could. My head hurts. She was actively against the sentients during the war given mirage's lore. But she follows through all her orders even after the war... Keep in mind one of Burning Lotus quotes: "We crossed the gap, wombs in ruin, to bring an end to this. We severed the worlds, let them destroy me, why is the sequence not complete?" So it could be, as I speculated a while back, that when the Sentients realized they couldn't beat the Tenno they changed tactics - inserting Lotus among the Tenno, then sacrificing some of their own in order to make her seem that much more on our side, to make ending the Orokin and us all the easier. Mirage would have been one of those missions gone wrong - because the Sentients would have continued to fight back with everything they had, can't make it TOO obvious that they're trying to manipulate the Tenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) So, was there any safety to be had for that soldier who had his face burned off? Was there somewhere Maggie could have taken him? You know? Carry him out of the void to the solid ground and air, then away from solid ground and air to some kind of hospital, maybe BACK behind the rail, then go BACK herself to the RAGING BATTLE? LMAO Is the soldier's choice to fade away in a moment of weakness nobler than Mag's act of giving him his gun and reminding him why the both of them are there in the first place? Mag gave back that soldier's dignity. Everything you have written about "winning at all costs" is just as laughable as the examples of simpering I gave above. Everything that Mag did was more humane than your alternative vision. No, I see "getting the wounded to safety" as a sign of humanity - again, DO NOT put words in my mouth. Shoving a gun into a wounded combatants hand, basically telling him "you will fight and you will die here" when he's barely able to do so, that's the sign of something that has been trained for and only for battle. No pity. No sense of "stop fighting, get the injured to safety", just "keep fighting, win the battle at all costs with whatever it takes". But that would have been YOUR CHOICE, then. Your choice to sacrifice your life. It wasn't the soldier's choice - what the Mag did would be like if you were sitting in the trench in agonizing pain, having lost a limb or two, and your sergeant pulled you up, put a gun in your hand, and said "you are going to charge the enemy". And you continue to focus on the self-admited weaker aspect of my Mirage example while ignoring the other element of it. And we do know Mirage's tactical situation "Worm ships coming out of punch! A Warframe fighting Sentients... shields are failing..." She was outnumbered, her defenses were dying, but she continued to fight. No self-preservation, just take as many Sentients with her as she could. You seem to be unable to understand that attempting to preserve self when self cannot be feasibly preserved does not demonstrate a lack of humanity. It only demonstrates a lack of self-delusion and irrational panic. Okay man, I hope we never find ourselves in such a situation. But if the two of us are in a foxhole and we're surrounded, I sure as hell hope you aren't going to abandon your post and run through the mine field of cluster bombs that's just been fired behind our company. But if you're going to do it anyway, I'm not going to stop you. Edited August 3, 2015 by Coryphaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 So, was there any safety to be had for that soldier who had his face burned off? Was there somewhere Maggie could have taken him? You know? Carry him out of the void to the solid ground and air, then away from solid ground and air to some kind of hospital, maybe BACK behind the rail, then go BACK herself to the RAGING BATTLE? LMAO Is the soldier's choice to fade away in a moment of weakness nobler than Mag's act of giving him his gun and reminding him why the both of them are there in the first place? Mag gave back that soldier's dignity. Everything you have written about "winning at all costs" is just as laughable as the examples of simpering I gave above. Everything that Mag did was more humane than your alternative vision. You seem to be unable to understand that attempting to preserve self when self cannot be feasibly preserved does not demonstrate a lack of humanity. It only demonstrates a lack of self-delusion and irrational panic. Yes. It demonstrates lack of delusion. a lack of panic. A lack of EMOTION. The very thing that makes us human - rather than the cold logic of a machine or a psychopath with only the goal of killing and following orders in mind. The Mag could have found somewhere, could have move somewhere, preserved the soldier's life, let him get back to full-healing. And yes, yes I do thinking letting the soldier die on those terms, in some semblance of peace, would have been better than subjecting him to the terror of flying head-first into the Sentient fleet, canons and weapons all around, only to die again at some point - if not during that battle, than during one in the future. The soldier hadn't lost any dignity - he'd been shot out of the sky by a Sentient weapon the moment they'd emerged from the Rail travel. It wasn't like he'd put the barrel of his rifle to his head. But that Mag chose to take him, use him as another tool in her arsenal. No pity, no compassion, he would die fighting a battle he couldn't hope to win anyway, just to give Mag that much more firepower. What is humane about using a wounded man as another weapon? Hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Why don't Teshin and Arbiter of Hexis work together. They both believe in honour?_? arbiters believe Tenno must transcend the limiting idea that Tenno are merely warriors. Tenshin is mired in warrior code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Something that came to mind: Did the Orokin know of Lotus? I think not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFckR3SNuU8 Why don't Teshin and Arbiter of Hexis work together. They both believe in honour?_? I know it has nothing to do with the topic but.... did he really just use a CIPHER in the easiest hack we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) How do you know Mag lacked emotion? Because the author didn't write about her lips stained with salty tears behind her mask as she cried for that brave soldier? Give me a break. In that same vein that dying soldier would not be human because he did not cry out for his mother and bawl "I DON WANNA DAI!" to suit your imagination of how people should act in such a situation. Moreover there is NO place that dying soldier could have gone. There is no hospital, no ambulance, no ship that would take them back through the rail after every ship that goes through gets immediately blown up. Did this inconvenient truth slip past you? What you have written is WISHFUL THINKING. Is it honest to pass this fantasy of safe haven off as fact? It's a good thing DE wrote the story as they did and not the way you would have written it. I have a feeling that if you had written it the soldier would lie down and die fighting a lost cause, lying down to die "peacefully" instead of "in terror" in a forlorn paen to the inhumanity of war, even when it's fighting for survival against a superior foe waging a campaign of EXTERMINATION. No, Mag was very humane. She elevated that soldier from a nameless casualty - or worse, a spineless and sentimental coward capable of self-delusion, irrational panic or the fast and loose interpretation of facts (such as slipping away from mortal injury into some kind of evidence of wilful affirmation of humanity) - into a figure of stoic heroism in the face of tragedy. No hand wringing and stained lips required. This is great writing, a lot of humanity there. Yes. It demonstrates lack of delusion. a lack of panic. A lack of EMOTION. The very thing that makes us human - rather than the cold logic of a machine or a psychopath with only the goal of killing and following orders in mind. The Mag could have found somewhere, could have move somewhere, preserved the soldier's life, let him get back to full-healing. And yes, yes I do thinking letting the soldier die on those terms, in some semblance of peace, would have been better than subjecting him to the terror of flying head-first into the Sentient fleet, canons and weapons all around, only to die again at some point - if not during that battle, than during one in the future. The soldier hadn't lost any dignity - he'd been shot out of the sky by a Sentient weapon the moment they'd emerged from the Rail travel. It wasn't like he'd put the barrel of his rifle to his head. But that Mag chose to take him, use him as another tool in her arsenal. No pity, no compassion, he would die fighting a battle he couldn't hope to win anyway, just to give Mag that much more firepower. What is humane about using a wounded man as another weapon? Hmm? Holy crap, why didn't I think about this? Hmm? After that dying soldier raised his hand to wave Maggie away, she instead grabs it to clasp it in both of her own, and they share a moment crying together even as the worm ships are heat bursting thousand of their compadres around them. This is great. This is awesome. This is humane. So now I think I understand the root of our disagreement. There is a school of thought that thinks humanity is affirmed by celebrating weakness and frailty. Like crying and helplessness. There is another school that thinks humanity is also affirmed through other qualities, such as tenacity, determination, willpower, stoicism, bravery, even in the face of overwhelming odds, defeat, ultimate death. These two viewpoints cannot be reconciled. They are separate focuses and forces. Edited August 3, 2015 by Coryphaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibro156 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 THE LAST MISSION: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLfuOHkxs3Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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