Year Of Quality Post. Ammo For Secondary Launchers Bug. When It Will Be Fixed?

[Necr0Ra1se]

As you now not long time(U15) ago DE decided to nerf launchers ammo and switch the type to sniper ammo for both secondary and primary weapons. After that we got increadeble bug that DE don't see. If you equip any secondary launcher( kulstar, anstrum, castanas) with main weapon that use sniper ammo too (snipers\launchers\bows) they will share them and if you run out of ammo with your main you will be without ammo with your seconday. Cool ya? This is not all the ammo capacity of your sniper\bow ( and tonkor) will be nerfed to your secondary. This is not feature of launchers thi is a bug!

 

So after how many updates DE will finally fix this?

 

[Gelkor]

They've stated on a devstream that it is not a bug, and is intended.  Well, the half ammo capacity is.  I've never had a bug where running out of my half ammo got rid of the other half, when I blow all my arrows I still have my castanas.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Gelkor

[egregiousRac]

They've stated on a devstream that it is not a bug, and is intended.  Well, the half ammo capacity is.  I've never had a bug where running out of my half ammo got rid of the other half, when I blow all my arrows I still have my castanas.

 

How is this not a bug?

 

Equipping a secondary launcher reduces the maximum ammo of any bow. It is a blatantly obvious bug.

[Gelkor]

How is this not a bug?

 

Equipping a secondary launcher reduces the maximum ammo of any bow. It is a blatantly obvious bug.

 

Working as intended according to the devs, each launcher shares the same ammo pool, and so they each get half the ammo.  Not saying I agree with it, only that they've stated it's intended.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Gelkor

[Centias]

They've stated on a devstream that it is not a bug, and is intended.  Well, the half ammo capacity is.  I've never had a bug where running out of my half ammo got rid of the other half, when I blow all my arrows I still have my castanas.

 

I don't mean to call you a liar, but I don't believe you do. Or at least you shouldn't. Any time you use up the ammo in one "sniper" ammo weapon, you run out of spare ammo in your other "sniper" weapon, because they share the same ammo pool. When your bow runs out, you should have no spare Castanas unless you find some ammo lying around.

 

And there are just so many things wrong with the idea that they think it's okay for primary and secondary to share one ammo pool while only ever using the secondary's ammo pool rather than keeping them separate, or adding them together, or doubling it, or just making secondaries use secondary ammo so it isn't an issue of them sharing ammo. There are really like 10 different ways they could finally fix this problem, but instead they've choosen to ignore it. There is no reason that it should be intended that I lose 42 ammo for a bow because I just happen to also use Castanas.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Centias

[Gelkor]

I don't mean to call you a liar, but I don't believe you do. Or at least you shouldn't. Any time you use up the ammo in one "sniper" ammo weapon, you run out of spare ammo in your other "sniper" weapon, because they share the same ammo pool. When your bow runs out, you should have no spare Castanas unless you find some ammo lying around.

 

And there are just so many things wrong with the idea that they think it's okay for primary and secondary to share one ammo pool while only ever using the secondary's ammo pool rather than keeping them separate, or adding them together, or doubling it, or just making secondaries use secondary ammo so it isn't an issue of them sharing ammo. There are really like 10 different ways they could finally fix this problem, but instead they've choosen to ignore it. There is no reason that it should be intended that I lose 42 ammo for a bow because I just happen to also use Castanas.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever noticed it happening, I tend to drop ammo restores liberally when I run Dread/Sancti Castanas anyways.

 

I agree it's stupid, and I don't understand the design choice whatsoever.  And if what you're saying is true, it means that your total ammo pool is reduced to 1/4th, techincally if they wanted them to share ammo it should be a single double size ammo pool.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Gelkor

[_Absolom_]

Working as intended according to the devs, each launcher shares the same ammo pool, and so they each get half the ammo.  Not saying I agree with it, only that they've stated it's intended.

If you take, say, a liter of water, split it between two glasses, then proceed to drink one glass completely empty, why would the second glass be empty as well? This is a huge design flaw, imo. Secondary launchers need to use secondary ammo again, but reduced. We KNOW they can tinker with the amount of reserve ammo, as they did it with the Twin Grakatas, for example.

Then again...every time a thread like this pops up, I cannot help but think:

"You see Ivan, when load rockets into bow..."

[Centias]

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever noticed it happening, I tend to drop ammo restores liberally when I run Dread/Sancti Castanas anyways.

 

I agree it's stupid, and I don't understand the design choice whatsoever.  And if what you're saying is true, it means that your total ammo pool is reduced to 1/4th, techincally if they wanted them to share ammo it should be a single double size ammo pool.

 

Yes, that's my understanding of it. You normally have 72 plus a few for bows or snipers, 20 plus a few for primary launchers, and 30 plus a few for seconadry launchers. When you use these things in combination, you end up having the secondary launcher's 30 plus a few shared between both, losing out on 72 ammo (about 70%) when using bow/sniper + launcher or losing 20 ammo (40%) when using double launchers. And then they both share the same ammo pool. None of which makes sense.

 

If you take, say, a liter of water, split it between two glasses, then proceed to drink one glass completely empty, why would the second glass be empty as well? This is a huge design flaw, imo. Secondary launchers need to use secondary ammo again, but reduced. We KNOW they can tinker with the amount of reserve ammo, as they did it with the Twin Grakatas, for example.

Then again...every time a thread like this pops up, I cannot help but think:

"You see Ivan, when load rockets into bow..."

 

This is a brilliant way to put it, and a great quote there. They really need to just switch it back to secondary ammo and modify how much ammo it gets per pickup. Nothing too difficult there.

[Sea_Wall]

They don't want you having too much ammo for your overpower sniper that's why.

[Necr0Ra1se]

They've stated on a devstream that it is not a bug, and is intended.  Well, the half ammo capacity is.  I've never had a bug where running out of my half ammo got rid of the other half, when I blow all my arrows I still have my castanas.

I watch every devstream and really don't remeber that say anything about this but it is true what you say and i missed this is looks like:

- Oh we screw up again lets say that it was indeanded to be so!!!

If you take, say, a liter of water, split it between two glasses, then proceed to drink one glass completely empty, why would the second glass be empty as well? This is a huge design flaw, imo. Secondary launchers need to use secondary ammo again, but reduced. We KNOW they can tinker with the amount of reserve ammo, as they did it with the Twin Grakatas, for example.

Then again...every time a thread like this pops up, I cannot help but think:

"You see Ivan, when load rockets into bow..."

Completely agry with you! De could give us back pistol ammo for secondary launchers...But wait I forget abiut that DE weapon team( not all of them) are very, very bad in balancing\rebalancing\buffing\nerfing\changing and fixing weapons. It took 2 yaers to buff 1 weapon and we asking them to make changes for all weapons that use sniper ammo? Not gonna happen in this or next year. Lotus 

 

They don't want you having too much ammo for your overpower sniper that's why.

I don't mind to have 20-30 ammo capacity for secondary launchers but why it nerfs my bow\sniper ammo and share it with them!?

us here:) 

[egregiousRac]

Here is a summary of the issue:

How the Dread should look:

 

How the Kulstar should look:

 

How the Dread looks with the Kulstar equipped:

 

How the Kulstar looks after firing the Dread once:

 

How the Dread looks after then firing a clip of the Kulstar:

 

Why does the selection of a secondary weapon affect the current or maximum ammo pool of a primary?

 

As a supplemental note, here is Ammo Drum equipped:

 

And here is Trick Mag equipped as well:

That is 30 (Base) + 9 (Ammo Drum) + 27 (Trick Mag)

 

How do any of these interactions not look like a bug?

[Necr0Ra1se]

How do any of these interactions not look like a bug?

 

DE have very strange logic :) 

[egregiousRac]

DE have very strange logic :) 

 

They really don't. What they do have is frequent mis-understanding of questions on devstreams.

[vomder]

de is quite stubborn on this issue refusing to acknowledge that it makes absolutely no sense and completely retard, so fat chance of it changing.

[vaugahn]

As long as we're talking quality, the ammo system as a whole needs an overhaul. The amount of different ammo pickups is totally unnecessary, and the flat value they add is a holdout from when all guns had the same amount of ammo.

[[DE]Momaw]

I propose that primary and secondary weapons use their own ammunition pools, even if they use the same pickup type: using a bow and a kulstar means the bow has 72 rounds of ammo reserved for it, and the kulstar has 30 rounds of ammo reserved for it, and the two don't talk to eachother at all.  When you pick up ammunition, it goes into whichever pool needs it with a preference for the weapon currently held. So if you currently have 60 arrows and 30 kulstar rounds, and you're wielding the kulstar, then when you pick up sniper ammo packs it will bypass the (full) kulstar and go into the bow supply.

 

This maintains the design intent of explosive heavy weapons with small ammo reserves, and it also maintains the pickup scarcity of sniper ammo packs as the limiting factor of using weapons that eat sniper ammo.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I fully agree that Sniper/Launcher/Bow/Special Ammo should.be seperated between Primary and Secondaru Ammo Pools.

Secondaries can have the current reduced ammo pool, but should still use Pistol Ammo rather than interfere(share) with Primary Ammo.

(Twin Grakata is a great example of making sense for the sake of the tenno without being an absurd hindrance)

[yles9056]

Not a bug, but an unnecessary and annoying "feature".

[Necr0Ra1se]

Not a bug, but an unnecessary and annoying "feature".

This feature must go. I don't understand how arrows can be loaded in my kulstar. 

[chuckdm]

Launchers just need to use Launcher Ammo, a whole new and separate ammo type.  It never made sense to try to shoehorn them into an existing ammo type, whether that was Sniper or even Rifle (looking at you, Opticor.)

 

Until that happens (because it's insane to think that'll never happen at all) I actually don't mind it.  I run ammo mutations on both my Paris Prime and my Sancti Castanas on my Loki and I never manage to run out of ammo for either one.  In fact, having a shared ammo pool means that pciking up ammo with EITHER weapon replenishes ammo for BOTH weapons so I kinda enjoy it.

 

That said, I've used a Lanka/Angstrum combo before and after firing a full Angstrum clip 3 times, I totally understood why some people hate this.  So yeah, game just needs a separate Launcher Ammo type.  No sense trying to solve this any other way.

[Pro3Display]

Launchers just need to use Launcher Ammo, a whole new and separate ammo type.  It never made sense to try to shoehorn them into an existing ammo type, whether that was Sniper or even Rifle (looking at you, Opticor.)

 

Until that happens (because it's insane to think that'll never happen at all) I actually don't mind it.  I run ammo mutations on both my Paris Prime and my Sancti Castanas on my Loki and I never manage to run out of ammo for either one.  In fact, having a shared ammo pool means that pciking up ammo with EITHER weapon replenishes ammo for BOTH weapons so I kinda enjoy it.

 

That said, I've used a Lanka/Angstrum combo before and after firing a full Angstrum clip 3 times, I totally understood why some people hate this.  So yeah, game just needs a separate Launcher Ammo type.  No sense trying to solve this any other way.

i'd say that actual separate ammo drops should go and have one drop "ammo"; all weaps have own ammo pool that this ammo goes into with own amounts of ammo recovered per weapon. (though its a pain in the butt with over 200 weapons)

 

or we can just go the realistic way and make riffle ammo only drop from lancers, rockets from bombards, arrows only from stalker, ammo for energy weapons only from corpus and other realistic inconvenient bullS#&$

Edited August 6, 2015 by Pro3Display

[chuckdm]

or we can just go the realistic way and make riffle ammo only drop from lancers, rockets from bombards, arrows only from stalker, ammo for energy weapons only from corpus and other realistic inconvenient bullS#&$

 

Yeah let's definitely not do that.  Bombards basically don't exist on Mercury, neither do Ballistas (yes, maybe ONCE a mission, but they are extremely rare on Mercury everywhere except the one Survival node after 25+ minutes).  So leveling a sniper or launcher would become basically impossible if we did that.  Yes, we could take them to Saturn, or yes, we could passively level them while using something else, but direct kills with the gun you're trying to level is the fastest way and this would make that impossible for snipers and launchers.

 

Plus is there anything besides Stalker in the entire game that uses a Bow?  How would we recover Bow ammo?  Recovering our own arrows from enemies after we shoot them?  Ugh.

[Tsukinoki]

Secondary launchers need to use secondary ammo again

 

 

Secondaries can have the current reduced ammo pool, but should still use Pistol Ammo 

Part of the reason that secondary launchers do not use the secondary ammo pickups is because the secondary ammo pickups are common as all hek which would put those launchers back into the "This thing effectively has limitless ammo for no effort on the players side".

The main reason that the secondary launchers need sniper ammo is because sniper ammo is much rarer and therefore serves to meter the usage of a secondary launcher and not just leave it with perpetually full ammo.

I do think that something needs to be done about this "feature" (and it is a feature according to DE) but I disagree with just letting secondary launchers work off the super common red pickups as that defeats the whole purpose of lowering their ammo count with how common the red pickups are.

Because it doesn't matter if they only have 20 ammo max, a single red pickup will restore that to full.

And we don't really need to return to launchers having essentially infinite ammo again.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Tsukinoki

[Prime]

Bombards basically don't exist on Mercury, 

wow... so you never played mercury survival?

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Part of the reason that secondary launchers do not use the secondary ammo pickups is because the secondary ammo pickups are common as all hek which would put those launchers back into the "This thing effectively has limitless ammo for no effort on the players side".

The main reason that the secondary launchers need sniper ammo is because sniper ammo is much rarer and therefore serves to meter the usage of a secondary launcher and not just leave it with perpetually full ammo.

I do think that something needs to be done about this "feature" (and it is a feature according to DE) but I disagree with just letting secondary launchers work off the super common red pickups as that defeats the whole purpose of lowering their ammo count with how common the red pickups are.

Because it doesn't matter if they only have 20 ammo max, a single red pickup will restore that to full.

And we don't really need to return to launchers having essentially infinite ammo again.

Look at how many Bows (Arrows) Attica picks-up....

They can have Secondary Launchers pickup a max of 5 or 10 Secondary Pistol Ammo, so that they are not 'infinite ammo' without mutation mod.

Having Secondary and Primary ammo pools shared just gimps a weapon load out type.

*I am serious about comparing how many Arrows an Attica picks-up combated to other Bow weapons* (They altered/adjusted ammo pick-ups in favor of the higher capacity Attica....they can trim down Pistol ammo pick-ups for Secondary Pistol Launcher weapons)