SilentMobius Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) The Latest Sortes first mission is Sabotage (With meltdown timer) that turns into Exterminate. With a bow. Now this is hard with a team, Exterminate spawn all over the map and these grineer are tougher that anything else on the starmap outside of later in endless missions. and we have a short timer after the Sabotage. It is neigh on impossible solo. So you might say "But these sortes are supposed to be hard" and I'd agree, the idea of extra-hard mission chains with a better, guaranteed, reward at the end is good. I was pro the idea behind this system. But that is not how the system is being used. The rewards being put into this system aren't all simply "better" they are normal progression rewards that are exclusive to this system. Nezha is a normal Warframe, not a prime, nothing special. Just another Warframe like any other, and thus should not be locked behind supposedly "extra hard" content that excludes solo players. The Focus system requires a lot of affinity to be earned to get the abilities, that is it's progress mechanic. Sure I support requiring some effort to get onto the focus ladder, some category of tasks to get another lens (which is the gate to the focus system, not the system itself) but not the "extra hard" content! This is a core system, it should not be locked behind an "extras hard" solo-unfriendly gate. The "Exclusive weapons" are not special, they are just mastery fodder. They are good rewards for a short time to a few people then they rapidly become bad rewards, they have no place in "extra hard" content. Please, please keep the "extra hard" content optional, don't lock exclusive content behind walls like this. Give people good, repeatable, rewards: exilus, potatoes, cores (including legendary), etc but don't lock basic items behind a time-limited high-difficulty mechanic that excludes players. Remember, when you amp up the difficulty you are stratifying the player-base, don't then pander to only one of the groups you just made. Edited March 30, 2016 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminem2420 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 You said it better then I could. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 "Sortie system is being misused". I think you're trying to say "Sortie System is being mishandled / handled improperly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGodKing Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 DE just wants to incentivize/force players into playing Sorties. It should be optional and not constantly forced down your throat. Everyday I login and I look at the missions I have to play solo and I get really disappointed and just ignore them altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynn Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Just bring Mirage and carry 3 puggers, if its spy solo it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maicael Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Is sabotage turning to exterminate something new? I've run several other sabotage missions and not had that happen. If it's not Mobile Defense, Survival, Interception, or Defense I just go ahead and run it solo. If it is one of those, then I just join Public hosts and have only had a problem once where it failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXCrusnik Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Is sabotage turning to exterminate something new? No, it's not. It's been around for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I couldn't agree more, thank you for putting this message up because if i had tried to do so it would have probably been ragetastic. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynn Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 A long long time ago the missions would switch types on us all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) "Sortie system is being misused". I think you're trying to say "Sortie System is being mishandled / handled improperly". No. I agree with the idea behind the system, I agree with the concept. Putting normal and exclusive single-want items behind that system, however, is misusing the concept behind the sorte system Edited December 19, 2015 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 No. I agree with the idea behind the system, I agree with the concept. Putting normal and exclusive single-want items behind that system, however, is misusing the concept behind the sorte state I still think mishandling the sortie system is a better way to do it. They have the idea right- but they're handling the execution of the idea poorly. They're not "misusing" the concept so to speak. But yes, I agree with you. Nezha should NOT be in sorties. It's not about the time wall, or the RNG this time. It's about the fact that these are very high level "end game" missions that not everyone can do- when they've clearly said in the past they'll never require someone to do super hard stuff to get "normal" content. I also disagree with you in some aspects though. Lenses, Dera Vandal, Karak Wraith, Legendary cores. I approve of these things being sortie rewards. If sorties only give stuff like R5 cores, noone would do them. People do hard stuff for one of two reasons. The first is shiny new things they don't have, which is what sorties are offering. Save nezha- so far they've all been good at doing that (until DE made the- frankly- extremely stupid decision of pricing greater lenses in market at a mere 40p, meaning there's little to no reason to do sorties for NORMAL lenses that you only can get one of per day, through RNG, and a small chance of the one you actually want. BUT I DIGRESS). The second is for people who just want a challenge for once. Which- let's be honest, they don't want a once a day challenge; not to mention 80% of the community doesn't want a challenge, so they half-afk, ezmode team camp on draco all day. Exclusives are good. This is why people do raids. This is why people are doing and will continue to do sorties. Exclusives that you can get to show off once you're a veteran player that you CANNOT TRADE imo would be even better. RNG would be bad for that though. Perhaps maybe for each sortie season they could set something up to give an exclusive cosmetic for that season for completing 10/15+ days of sorties in that season. An example would be a sigil similar to the stratos badge. One that evolves over time and shows you put in the effort for it. People have been asking for an "evolving sigil" for ages now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 (edited) I still think mishandling the sortie system is a better way to do it. They have the idea right- but they're handling the execution of the idea poorly. They're not "misusing" the concept so to speak. But yes, I agree with you. Nezha should NOT be in sorties. It's not about the time wall, or the RNG this time. It's about the fact that these are very high level "end game" missions that not everyone can do- when they've clearly said in the past they'll never require someone to do super hard stuff to get "normal" content. I also disagree with you in some aspects though. Lenses, Dera Vandal, Karak Wraith, Legendary cores. I approve of these things being sortie rewards. If sorties only give stuff like R5 cores, noone would do them. People do hard stuff for one of two reasons. The first is shiny new things they don't have, which is what sorties are offering. Save nezha- so far they've all been good at doing that (until DE made the- frankly- extremely stupid decision of pricing greater lenses in market at a mere 40p, meaning there's little to no reason to do sorties for NORMAL lenses that you only can get one of per day, through RNG, and a small chance of the one you actually want. BUT I DIGRESS). The second is for people who just want a challenge for once. Which- let's be honest, they don't want a once a day challenge; not to mention 80% of the community doesn't want a challenge, so they half-afk, ezmode team camp on draco all day. Exclusives are good. This is why people do raids. This is why people are doing and will continue to do sorties. Exclusives that you can get to show off once you're a veteran player that you CANNOT TRADE imo would be even better. RNG would be bad for that though. Perhaps maybe for each sortie season they could set something up to give an exclusive cosmetic for that season for completing 10/15+ days of sorties in that season. An example would be a sigil similar to the stratos badge. One that evolves over time and shows you put in the effort for it. People have been asking for an "evolving sigil" for ages now. As I said, legendary cores are a fine reward. They are consumable and sought-after. The Dera Vandal, Karak Wraith and indeed Nehza are irritating rewards if your goal is to get them and useless if you already have them. Trading is an alternative, any time a mechanism relies on trading to work it's already broken. As for trials, that system is also terrible, but that's not the issue here. Edited December 19, 2015 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 +1 OP I like the concept of sorties but not the implementation. I feel almost like they want to force me to do them daily, and I want to do things at my own pace. I've twice now gotten 25x cores and that was a pretty nice reward for me. The karak wraith stuff I got, or the non-greater lenses (which are functionally worthless now, both for my own gear and to trade to others) are poor rewards. Nezha irritates me to no end even though I know he will be quite affordable from other players soon enough. Just glad they made his parts tradeable, I suppose. I love challenging content, the spy missions have been both frustrating and fun, for example, but I want to feel like I can just get to it whenever, and what I get in exchange will be worth the struggle. I get stressed if stuff feels obligatory. This is a game, not a job. And the return just isn't good enough for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 As I said, legendary cores are a fine reward. They are consumable and sought-after. The Dera Vandal, Karak Wraith and indeed Nehza are irritating rewards if your goal is to get them and useless if you already have them. Trading is an alternative, any time a mechanism relies on trading to work it's already broken. As for trials, that system is also terrible, but that's not the issue here. As for trials- they are awesome, not terrible. Back to sorties- the simple solution to make everything not-horrible for people who can't stand the thought of RNG for some reason is for them to make anything you get from a sortie mission during a season that you only "need" once drop from your pool. The issue with this is parties. 4 people. If one person has a dera stock and the others don't; since the game rewards everyone with the same thing, the only options would be to drop it from the pool for EVERYONE THERE- which obviously wouldn't work- or to make it so if they do roll that, code it so it'll reroll the reward for that specific individual- which takes time and effort to make happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) As for trials- they are awesome, not terrible. Back to sorties- the simple solution to make everything not-horrible for people who can't stand the thought of RNG for some reason is for them to make anything you get from a sortie mission during a season that you only "need" once drop from your pool. The issue with this is parties. 4 people. If one person has a dera stock and the others don't; since the game rewards everyone with the same thing, the only options would be to drop it from the pool for EVERYONE THERE- which obviously wouldn't work- or to make it so if they do roll that, code it so it'll reroll the reward for that specific individual- which takes time and effort to make happen. Colour me unconvinced about trials, any mechanism that is gated on how many "internet friends" you have and whether you fall into the "pliable doormat" or "bossy douchbag" category is not for me and should IMHO never contain unique rewards. Trials (and all raid-like content) are only one step away from gating content on how many facebook like you get, or other pointless social nonsense, it's a toxic anti-player mechanic. If these things were actually more fun in a team they people would team without forcing them, the fact they have to force people illustrates that the content is a chore and you're just pitting the players against each other in lieu of actual content. As for ticking off unneeded rewards for Sorties, DE already has code for unique rewards per player, they've had to prevent systems from rolling an award per player enough times. Edited December 20, 2015 by SilentMobius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Colour me unconvinced about trials, any mechanism that is gated on how many "internet friends" you have and whether you fall into the "pliable doormat" or "bossy douchbag" category is not for me and should IMHO never contain unique rewards. Trials (and all raid-like content) are only one step away from gating content on how many facebook like you get, or other pointless social nonsense, it's a toxic anti-player mechanic. If these things were actually more fun in a team they people would team without forcing them, the fact they have to force people illustrates that the content is a chore and you're just pitting the players against each other in lieu of actual content. As for ticking off unneeded rewards for Sorties, DE already has code for unique rewards per player, they've had to prevent systems from rolling an award per player enough times. 1. That's what clans are for. 2. Trials aren't like that with clan / alliance m8s. If they are- you're in the wrong clan/alliance. 3. The toxic anti player stuff isn't from trials. It's MOVED to trials- FROM draco. Blame draco for all that nonsense. Draco and DE's foolish move to wait for starchart 3.0 instead of nerf draco so it couldn't fester the way it has. 4. Wait- since when? I've never seen this in ANY mission. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunningTree3 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Regarding today's Sortie with Exterminate-with-Meltdown timer. Just a theory: At least with my group, I found that using the Bow with Thunderbolt mod on the core had always caused meltdown (all 3 cases), whereas the times we did not receive a timer was when the core was not destroyed this way (all 2 cases). Again, just a theory. Correlation may not be causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minamitsu Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 "Sortie Missions are difficult endgame Missions for experienced Tenno..." It's supposed to be hard. Not something you can just bring anything in to and expect to win easily. You need to plan ahead and prepare, and sometimes fail and learn something you can apply to later attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheePrime Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Meanwhile in Banshees world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maicael Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 My sabotage mission turned into an exterminate, but I didn't have any meltdown timer. Just had to go back and forth beginning to end killing all the enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kainosh Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 In my mission there were no timer too. And it was rather simple to hunt stuff down. I think timer itself is a bug/glitch. Because it makes no sence. Why kill em if they all gonna die from reactor explosion? That would only be necessary if reactor were "disarmed" and enemies were like "hey you watcha gonna do?" And about parts and lenses....it wouldnt be a problem at all if we had proper trading auction. Not the one where you trade items for currency, but one where you trade ITEMS for ITEMS. Set your trade like [ GIve - Nezha helmet BP / Take - Nezha systems BP ] and go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSignal Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Locking a normal warframe behind the Sorties with a bunch of other exclusive stuff is just silly. Making a special exception to make said normal warframe's parts tradeable to justify the silliness, even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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