Hitsu San's Workshop - Octavia Youkai is finally here!

[TrickshotMcGee]

How's about some horny Excal teases? (I have to make the joke even though it's immature)

[Stormdragon]

I don't wanna be that guy but...

 

Mag buff Rework + Alata Skin Release = Insta Buy

 

Thanks HitsuSan for your amazing pieces of artwork!  

 

[HitsuSan]

4 hours ago, alexmach1 said:

No it doesn't, did you read the guidelines? Did you see the example content? both lay out how Warframe's material system works so I find it hard to believe you couldn't figure out how to create metallic materials. Did you even try asking?

I love your passive aggressive way to say i'm @(*()$ up alexmach1 XD  I don't want to talk technical and numbers but the metallic value of Alata is close to Hagoromo and a little lower than Visage (which is about right what i wanted) so i probably have to tweak it a little bit. On tennogen looks good though, and on my engine is exactly how you see it on the screenshots so it's not a matter of following the guidelines but it's more about to find the correct values to use which i can't check ingame if the skins are not ingame ^^ Now that they're out i know what to tweak!

[HitsuSan]

Damn you guys are making lots of cool combinations and color schemes XD I love it! Thanks for all the screenshots, please keep them coming!

 

As for Excalibur no teasers XD He's not that far anyway...

[alexmach1]

24 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

I love your passive aggressive way to say i'm @(*()$ up alexmach1 XD  I don't want to talk technical and numbers but the metallic value of Alata is close to Hagoromo and a little lower than Visage (which is about right what i wanted) so i probably have to tweak it a little bit. On tennogen looks good though, and on my engine is exactly how you see it on the screenshots so it's not a matter of following the guidelines but it's more about to find the correct values to use which i can't check ingame if the skins are not ingame ^^ Now that they're out i know what to tweak!

I'm not trying to be passive aggressive, these things are written out and even if you couldn't find them you could always ask around. It sounds like you're using the metal/albedo workflow which means all you metal values should either be 0 or 1, and never anything in-between and the albedo value must be 0.9 to 1. If you're using the spec/diffuse workflow, then metals have specular values of 0.85 to 1 and diffuse values of 0 to 0.2. Again, both the tennogen guide and the content examples show this. Using anything else will result in materials looking non-metallic as your skins show. If you need examples, here are the Nsaru(metal/albedo) and Jattuk(spec/diffuse) textures.

Nsaru

 

Jattuk

 

For nonmetals like the Nsaru's cloth, you can do whatever you want to make it look pretty, but metals pretty much have to stay consistent.

[HitsuSan]

6 minutes ago, alexmach1 said:

I'm not trying to be passive aggressive, these things are written out and even if you couldn't find them you could always ask around. It sounds like you're using the metal/albedo workflow which means all you metal values should either be 0 or 1, and never anything in-between and the albedo value must be 0.9 to 1. If you're using the spec/diffuse workflow, then metals have specular values of 0.85 to 1 and diffuse values of 0 to 0.2. Again, both the tennogen guide and the content examples show this. Using anything else will result in materials looking non-metallic as your skins show.

All you're saying is correct but it's completely useless when you're applying it and you want to achieve a slightly different look than what you already have there :) The values i'm using are exactly on the range that you're suggesting but it's impossible to achieve something a little different if not by making some changes > see the results > and adjusting the values accordingly ^^ Currently we are at "seeing the results"

As i told you it's not as simple as just use those values and you're good, the values i'm using are totally fine on painter, tennogen and another game engine (as you can see from all the screenshots) But now that i know the differences with the actual game shader i can tweak everything accordingly :) (though it would be much better if we had a 1:1 shader to test things on)

 

Anyway this is way too boring for everyone, in short if DE allows me i'll make some tweaks on Alata (and probably Setka too) as soon as possible, i promise! :D

[alexmach1]

28 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

As i told you it's not as simple as just use those values and you're good

But it is, that's why it's a part of the tennogen guide. These same values are integral parts of the entire concept of PBR and are written down in almost every single PBR-related guide. 

http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice

Quote

When using a metalness map, insulative surfaces - pixels set to 0.0 (black) in the metalness map – are assigned a fixed reflectance value (linear: 0.04 sRGB: 0.22) and use the albedo map for the diffuse value. For metallic surfaces – pixels set to 1.0 (white) in the metalness map – the specular color and intensity is taken from the albedo map, and the diffuse value is set to 0 (black) in the shader.

http://blog.teamtreehouse.com/beginners-guide-physically-based-rendering-unity

Quote

PBR materials that use a metallic map, as is the case with Unity’s Standard shader, fall into two categories: metal or non-metal. Sometimes, a non-metal is also called a dielectric, meaning it’s a poor conductor of electricity. The reason for this split is because a PBR material needs to describe how light should be reflected on each surface.

https://warframe.com/steamworkshop/help/index.php?page=texturing-guide

Quote

Metalness (filename_s): 

• This map separates metal and non-metal areas.
• Rule of thumb:  If something is metal make it white and everything else black.  

Don't lecture me on what does and doesn't work, you're the one having problems with this and it's incredibly demeaning.

[HitsuSan]

3 minutes ago, alexmach1 said:

But it is, that's why it's a part of the tennogen guide. Don't lecture me on what does and doesn't work, you're the one having problems with this.

I'm not having any problems really, if something is not working i'll fix it :) And if you don't like me to answer just don't come to me with your attitude, it's that simple. I have no intention to fight or bother you though, thanks for all of your suggestions on the matter! I'll work on that as soon as possible ;)

[alexmach1]

14 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

I'm not having any problems really, if something is not working i'll fix it :) And if you don't like me to answer just don't come to me with your attitude, it's that simple. I have no intention to fight or bother you though, thanks for all of your suggestions on the matter! I'll work on that as soon as possible ;)

You're disregarding sources and examples because you think I have an "attitude"? There is absolutely no hostility behind my posts, but if you're going to continue assuming I'm trying to attack you then there's no means by which I can convince you otherwise. Advertising your work as something it's not and then going on to say it's fine is unethical, and I hope your future skins don't continue this trend.

[Neptlude]

Darn I kinda wish DE would have fixed this....

I actually like the metallic prime parts on Visage nova, but the transition on the side... is bleh.... .- .

[HitsuSan]

12 minutes ago, alexmach1 said:

You're disregarding sources and examples because you think I have an "attitude"? There is absolutely no hostility behind my posts, but if you're going to continue assuming I'm trying to attack you then there's no means by which I can convince you otherwise. Advertising your work as something it's not and then going on to say it's fine is unethical, and I hope your future skins don't continue this trend.

You know why i think you have an attitude? It's cause i've actually checked all the warframes that we can work with and the only ones with metal bits with reflectivity are the ones with the specular setup and the metalness ones have a result about the same as i have with my skins or they are just hidden with dark. I think you have an attitude cause my values are in range of what you're saying and it still looks like that. I think you have an attitude cause you're using another PBR shader guide of which i'm very familiar with (unity) as a reference for another shader, thing that if you had any knowlede about shaders you will know how dangerous that can be because just cause it's called PBR it doesn't mean it's all the same and just the order of when things are composed together inside the code can change the final result but you're telling me to use those guides on my work anyway... Guess what? My screenshots are taken with Unity and surprise they look different isn't it?

I'm not disregarding sources and examples, i even acknowledged that i need to make some tweaks and as always i'll do my best to give everybody the best result possible but you have a giant attitude my friend and if you want to have a dialogue with me from now on you'd better get rid of that or i will just ignore you cause quite frankly i'd like to spend the time i'm spending answering to your accusation of unethical behavior to work on improving my work and make some more skins. 

 

 

Man i'm really trying to stay away from all this useless drama but i guess it's just too hard for some people to understand...

I'm sorry for the rest of you guys that have to witness all this, i'm apologizing cause i know you come here to have some fun and leave some comments and i wanted to comment on all your screenshots! I'll do it from now on i promise :) Just know i've seen all of them and you all look amazing XD Just try not using too much black!

[HitsuSan]

1 minute ago, Neptlude said:

Darn I kinda wish DE would have fixed this....

I actually like the metallic prime parts on Visage nova, but the transition on the side... is bleh.... .- .

Yeah, it doesn't look too bad but those parts are meant to match the prime skin, it's not like an armor : \ 

[Cortanis]

Figures the update would drop after I had to get off. I'll post up pics for my colors tomorrow. >.> What colors are the leather straps matched to on the rest of the frame or are they independent on the color picker?

[HitsuSan]

The straps are the secondary color if i remember correctly :)

[alexmach1]

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. You claim to know what the problems are, but you're laying out some heavy contradictions. Again, I'm not trying to attack you, but you have otherwise not shown a complete understanding of what the issue is.

12 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

 i've actually checked all the warframes that we can work with... I think you have an attitude cause my values are in range of what you're saying and it still looks like that.

Me too. I've provided examples of both metal and specular. Your in-game skins clearly prove that your values are incorrect, so I hope you can understand why I don't believe your claim.

I think you have an attitude cause you're using another PBR shader guide of which i'm very familiar with (unity) as a reference for another shader

I myself do not use this guide, and I have posted multiple sources. One source, in fact, straight from the Tennogen guide.

19 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

if you had any knowlede about shaders you will know how dangerous that can be because just cause it's called PBR it doesn't mean it's all the same and just the order of when things are composed together inside the code can change the final result but you're telling me to use those guides on my work anyway

I've worked with many different game engines and have written shaders in the past, and there is something called a "standard" and while some rendering pipelines may handle things differently, they are all using the same variables to achieve nearly the same result. Besides, I've never said to use their guidelines as reference, I was pointing out the similarities between the metal/specular systems to highlight the issue with your claim that "it's not as simple as just use those values and you're good". It is generally accepted in PBR systems that metals are either highly specular and low diffuse or 100% metal and 100% albedo, which is what I was trying to convey.

25 minutes ago, HitsuSan said:

Guess what? My screenshots are taken with Unity and surprise they look different isn't it?

Yes, you did take screenshots - under a single lighting setup with no reflections and a single light. Screenshots from Tennogen would have been more informative, as that provides 3 lights as well as a cubemap. You should look into using Sketchfab, which will provide many lighting setups in PBR format, as well as convey more information to the user than an image.

I'm not disregarding sources and examples, i even acknowledged that i need to make some tweaks and as always i'll do my best to give everybody the best result possible but you have a giant attitude my friend and if you want to have a dialogue with me from now on you'd better get rid of that or i will just ignore you cause quite frankly i'd like to spend the time i'm spending answering to your accusation of unethical behavior to work on improving my work and make some more skins. 

If you wish to ignore me, then that is only because you continue to assume I am here to attack you. I saw an issue with the skins and came here to point it out, offering examples to help. I hope you reconsider what I've said and keep an open table for professional debate.

[HitsuSan]

9 minutes ago, alexmach1 said:

under a single lighting setup with no reflections and a single light. Screenshots from Tennogen would have been more informative, as that provides 3 lights as well as a cubemap

Everytime... You assume something about my work without any idea about how wrong are

... so i hope you'll understand why i don't believe your claim.

 

Here's the thing, i don't care about debating with no one, especially with somebody with your attitude. It's a waste of time and nobody wins. I care about dialogue, that's why i'm even answering even if i had enough already.

If you cared about helping here's how the dialogue between two professionals would have been:

-Alex: Hey Hitsu, i've seen there's a problem with the metalness of your skin, are your values in this range ____ ?

-Hitsu: Yes they are, that's totally weird! Let's figure out where the issue is together!

Result: Both of us might learn something new out of it.

instead of:

-Alex: Disappointed that the Alata and Visage skin show metallic reflections in the renders on their workshop pages but has none ingame. (which is not true btw, another provocative claim of yours)

Result: Flame.

 

 

 

In conclusions, you might be right, you might be wrong, I don't care. Half of your claims are full of crap and your attitude it's just meant to provoke and i find it cute ^^

But i can't take you seriously because of that.

 

 

As i said i'll ask DE if i can do some changes cause i was already making a list of things to improve yesterday and i'll see what i can do, i definitely want to improve it if possible. And i need the time to do that so we'll talk next time i'll publish something else i guess ^^ I hope you can understand why i don't want to debate.

[matto]

Quick question, how does an update of your skin would work?

Do you have to make some tweaks through the workshop and then wait for DE to approve the tweaks?

My worry is simple : once something gets implemented in game, it usually takes ages to get a fix from DE. I just hope it will be faster than I think. Your Alata needs it to shine even more. It's awesome, but the metallic treatment would make it outshine :)

Keep us updated as soon as you have informations please ^^

[HitsuSan]

It's tricky cause somebody has to work on it at DE no matter what changes i want to make and it takes some time that they don't usually have cause they're all busy on the next thing to do, especially if my change is very minor which it probably very much is, if you go watch the rings on Nova Prime neck you'll notice it's about the same look of my metal. I could tweak better if i had the engine to test it with but i don't so it pretty much will be another shot in the dark. 

I will still try but i need to speak with DE first, there's way more room of improvement on Setka though ^^ that's for sure!

[Rorgal_Sina]

6 hours ago, alexmach1 said:

Don't lecture me on what does and doesn't work, you're the one having problems with this and it's incredibly demeaning.

I don't know about you, but the way this sentence is phrased is absolutely past the line of "passive". There are other lines too.

You may not think you're getting aggressive, but you are. In fact, you're relentless with your assault. I don't care who's right or wrong, but being civil isn't enough. Be a bro.

[OniDax]

I'm not posting a lot here anymore, but I'm really looking forward to seeing your Excalibur skin. Also, I gotta agree that your Alata skin doesn't seem to have PBR metal. Maybe it's because of whatever program you use, but maybe you could go into something like Photoshop and tweak your specular textures. And all you'd have to do is take your alpha tint from your tintmap and add it to your specular map. I do understand what you're saying about how your metal looks, but you also gotta remember that not all prime stuff has the same metal look, and some just look like plastic (i.e. Nova Prime, Soma Prime, Latron Prime, etc), while others actually look more like metal (Excal Prime, Mag Prime, Rhino Prime, etc). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any breathing room when trying to get different metal looks. Of course, the decision is entirely yours, but I think it'd look better if it was fully metallic. Please forgive me if this comes across as rude or aggressive. I hope I'm not making this situation worse or anything like that. Great work so far!

[Sidereus]

5 hours ago, HitsuSan said:

I'm sorry for the rest of you guys that have to witness all this, i'm apologizing cause i know you come here to have some fun and leave some comments and i wanted to comment on all your screenshots! I'll do it from now on i promise :) Just know i've seen all of them and you all look amazing XD Just try not using too much black!

Worry not, Hitsu, as things like these can simply happen, so as far drama doesn't really "escalate" (and this is not the case) then it's just natural; sometimes boring but still natural, to have communication problems and misunderstandings.

5 hours ago, alexmach1 said:

If you wish to ignore me, then that is only because you continue to assume I am here to attack you. I saw an issue with the skins and came here to point it out, offering examples to help. I hope you reconsider what I've said and keep an open table for professional debate.

I personally think that aside from the actual technical issue, which, it hasn't a solution yet, no one is truly denying a problem until they openly declare that there is no problem, which it hasn't happened yet.
What I am trying to say is that I think that if both of you looked up into the actual issue, as Hitsu said, the outcome would only be a positive one, for both of you, yet for as long as you're pointing out your negative impressions about those answers which clearly didn't satisfy you, then you're bound to be considered slightly "aggressive" in your tones.
There is no need to be skeptical or mistrust the "someone" in question since he's delivering content we woulnd't otherwise have, so keeping that in mind I ask you to consider what's more important now:
The issue on a user-created skin, whose creator has already promised to work on it OR the impression you had of his answers based on the incongruity of both of your knowledges.

2 hours ago, Rorgal_Sina said:

You may not think you're getting aggressive, but you are. In fact, you're relentless with your assault. I don't care who's right or wrong, but being civil isn't enough. Be a bro.

I'd also like to add, be a Tenno.


I apologize for my imperfect english.

[matto]

[DoctorWild]

But Hitsu-san, sorry, but didn't they say, that for nova's visage skin, they wanted to use the normal model? And not the prime's one. It just doesn't look good and i'm waiting to build a normal nova, but I think that they/you are losing some buyers like that. Is there a possibility to change? Are you gonna ask or are you happy like that?

[HitsuSan]

@matto Whooah look at that XD You look super cool, it's like a badass robot, i love it!

@DoctorWild I've already spoke with DE about this issue and i've been told they'll fix it with the warning that it might took a while cause U19 is taking everybody's attention at DE (rightfully so) and this minor change takes time but it's low on priority. We have to deal with it for a while ^^ fortunately it's not that bad though!

[Blood_Poppy]

At Last, I finish Build a Nova and Recolor both Frames..

Here My Favorite Color For Them.. TEAM CAP..!! TEAM CAP..!!

Surprisingly, The Setka Syandana Matching Both Frames.. <3 <3 <3 It Worth Every Penny... Keep up the Good Work..