So Should Loki Get Rebalanced?

[Blightshadow]

From what I've read in this thread the only "issue" with loki is his perma invisibility, so why are we even talking about him when we have ivara? Prawl+pickpocket usually guarantees perma invis from my experience and she doesn't even need to recast that!

 

Also, mirage can blind whole rooms with her ult so not only enemies can't see her, they can't even use weapons for aoe damage and are open to finishers. In addition she has Hall of Mirrors which greatly increases her damage.

 

Forget about not being seen, valkyr can be invincible to any and all damage for as long as she wants in addition to having high armor in case she wants to stop clawing things for one reason or another.

 

Loki, while he can virtually be perma invis, is still very squishy and needs to watch out for aoe damage from:

sapping osprey mines, rockets, naplam aoe hazards, toxic clouds AND crossfire (if that heavy gunner wants to shoot that rhino behind you and you are caught between them you are going to have a bad time) while other frames can stun-lock huge areas (rhino, frost) or go invincible mode forever (valkyr, limbo).

 

Now I'm not saying those frames are OP, such builds come at a cost (rhino and frost need to forego damage and frost's globe is rendered useless, valkyr has to go face to face to kill so leech eximus and nullifires are troublesome, limbo cant interact with consoles and loot etc. etc.)

 

TL;DR
While staying invisible is a powerful ability it is balanced by the fact that loki is still squishy and needs to be constantly aware of his environment as well as his and his teammates locations (again, crossfire) and if you want to "cheese" through content there are frames which can achieve that with far more ease and less risk.

[S0V3REiGN]

Many raid teams do infact take Loki so i don't see your point. I also like how you downplay irradiating disarm yet you ignore the fact that while enemy's now have lost thier guns permanently  they know also attack each other, providing even more CC and a safer environment.

 

It can be argued chaos effect is longer and further reaching but ID builds of disarm which itself is extremely imbalanced.

 

I do a lot raids and I main Loki in raids (partly because carry bombs). Trust me, it's been more then one time i have had to argue that Loki is not irrelevant for raid runs. I am not ignoring that irradiating disarm is useful but the way players talk about it here you would think its the single best CC ability in the game when it's not even better then a blind mirage. It's rediculously overrated here (again not saying it's useless).

Edited January 1, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[iuki.]

Nerf loki yea ok...then everyone will just use ivara who is arguably the best stealth frame now with the ability to aoe sleep everything so no worry about getting detected at all.

 

Loki is one of the few really well balanced frames and it saddens me to see threads like this.

Edited January 1, 2016 by fizbit

[TotallyLagging]

In a game where CC is everything, a pure CC frame will surely stand out.

[Cancer_Cowboy]

Take away two of his skills and replace them with useless abilities. Y'know, like Ash. 

[jjpdn]

Switch Teleport is horrible on enemies. Doesn't have any combat potential at all, because you are stunned for a moment yourself. 

 

Would be nice if it confused all the enemies to think youre a friendly for a small while or until you shoot or something. 

[Nemsi]

He can do just about every mission type while just about never being visible. While I love Loki, he feels over powered due to that. Personally I don't think any frames should be able to go invisible or invincible. 

 

Any frame can solo any mission type. Thats a fact that many players refuse to admit. Some frames just have harder times with some mission types which is natural.

 

As for super squishy Loki, his overall survivabilty is heavily reliant on invisibility. One bad move and he is a dead meat in a split second. Thats very obvious especially in sorties.

 

Lastly, if DE add enemies seeing through invisibility without making reasonable adjustments to stealth and alerting system, theyll ruin stealth game overall. Invisibility is the only (though cheesy) way to deal with the current cheesing and cheating enemies making proper stealth game a joke.

[Acos]

Loki is fine, I feel. His melee damage can be pretty good, but he's no Excalibur or Valkyr. His crowd control is pretty useful, but he's no Nyx or Vauban. His invisibility gives him pretty good personal damage mitigation, but he still folds like wet tissue paper if he accidently gets caught in a crossfire or if he can't keep up his energy because he's busy controlling the battlefield. 

He seems like a balanced frame whose capabilities reflect how well you play him. He definitely doesn't need a rework, but some slight touch-ups wouldn't kill him either. 

Changes I wouldn't mind seeing on him:
-Decoy not having health. It's silly. 

-The animation of his abilities being trimmed down. 

-"Master Race" emote exclusive to Loki. 

-Switch Teleport becoming significantly faster. 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Acos

[(PSN)Arion-Lightning]

Loki is ok. His abilities are perfect balanced. Yes.... He is invisible all time but it is not invincible. If you go visible at a wrong moment... You are 1 shot-killed. Touch him and he dies.

He has a terrible weakness. His energy. Loki without energy is NOTHING. you always have to watch out for energy drain eximus and kill them as fast as possible.

His skills are perfect balanced for the highest level missions as well as other 4 or 5 warframes.

What developers have to do is rebalance all other warframes in order to turn them viable for lvl 80-100 missions. Never nerf.

STOP CRYING ABOUT LOKI. I hate these crying people. If you dont like him, take another f...ng warframe, play and leave us alone!!!

Edited January 1, 2016 by (PS4)Arion-Lightning

[Gilmaesh]

Why not, if they come up with something good. 

[Hypernaut1]

Loki is fine, the way enemies react to invisibility is not.

Alerted enemies should only have reduced LoS, tracking and accuracy against an invisible Warframe. They shouldnt be completely unaware while getting shot at in the face.

A Loki should have to be actually stealthy to run around with impunity.

Ash smoke screen would actually make sense now as the screen is what makes enemies unaware in front of their face as he escapes with his shortened invisibility.

[R34LM]

Alerted enemies should only have reduced LoS, tracking and accuracy against an invisible Warframe. They shouldnt be completely unaware while getting shot at in the face.

 

That is what invisibility is. If they were to go with your suggestion they would have to call it camouflage. 

[DzeraDragonbane]

Everything just has to be nerfed huh? Oh cmon, loki cannot be seen too much sure but in high levels even if you appear for a second without casting invi, you're mostly #*($%%@...... not to mention he'll die pretty easily to infested bcuz TOXIC 

 

Trust me people will ALWAYS b(i)tch

[paragasu]

The most balance warframe get some weird changes (like no more teleport, invisibilty duration reduced and can't disarm enemy anymore) will gather a lot of angry villagers with pitchforks and torches...but then again if switch teleport gonna be change to instant switch with your clone ...I say we will get happy people

[StonedMakak]

Loki is fine, the way enemies react to invisibility is not.

Alerted enemies should only have reduced LoS, tracking and accuracy against an invisible Warframe. They shouldnt be completely unaware while getting shot at in the face.

A Loki should have to be actually stealthy to run around with impunity.

Ash smoke screen would actually make sense now as the screen is what makes enemies unaware in front of their face as he escapes with his shortened invisibility.

 

I second this. Invisibility as a concept is fine, it's just that it works like a cheat code, not a skill. 

 

Right now you can go solo, with perma invisibility build with Hushed Invisibility, and parkour off enemies heads while shooting your Tonkor, and they will be mildly concerned with the situation, but won't fire a single round. 

 

IMHO there should a a "last know position" mechanic for every frame with invisibility. Any sort of noisy behavior e.g. attacking, leaves behind a ghostly silhouette, which draws enemy fire. Ivara does this already with her Prowl breaking upon firing a gun, which is a tad overdone in my opinion. 

[Starberyl]

Invisibility in general is not an issue, applying the more genuine logic here would be to buff everything else besides nerfing something and who said enemies had to be an exception? An improvement to how enemies rely to stealth won't hinder stealth warframes but provide interesting gameplay effectively adding to the game rather than taking away what people like the most about clutches: it's fun. Enemies already have their clutch and we all love/hate nullifies with turns Loki at 1hr T4 survival into a bubble dodger. Loki in my honest opinion is not masterrace and anyone who makes such a claim have an inept understanding of the multitude of options this game has to offer for every situation. 

 

A bunch of players who can't think for themselves either than to chase the infamous and social constructed best are really boring themselves with a PVE oriented game title, their opinions aren't a valid reason to rebalance or to rework any warframe. If anything, Loki shouldn't be seen as a must-have but should be seen as one of many great and fun warframes to standardize future creations or balances of other warframes that truly need to be on par with some buffs and reworks such as Limbo and Nekros. Though in essence, most "X warframe needs re-balancing" threads either than the ones that point out weaknesses are often soft attempts at stirring a community that is fond of petty nerf wars. 

Edited January 2, 2016 by Captain.Starburst

[(PSN)abb12355]

DE know he's Overpowered, but they also know nerfing him will make the community go apes#!t.

[Xaero]

It's not Loki who is OP. What's really OP is invisibility which actually any frame can use. So instead of nerfing DE should improve enemy AI. I dunno, at least let them shoot blindly in the direction they heard the gunfire.

[0hMyTenno]

Didn't knew he needed rework

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

He's extremely well balanced. Should stay like that forever. Some minor tweaks would be nice though. Decoy could have max damage it takes gated, like nullifiers bubble. So that it always takes several hits to kill. Switch teleport could confuse enemy like it confuses player when grineer commander does it. The rest is perfect. Purely cosmetic tweak - disarmed enemies should equip faction melee instead of shock prods.

I also dislike how switching with decoy is iffy. It should ignore invisible walls and go through any small cracks.

[Rorgal_Sina]

Everyone's talking about Invisibility when the it's all about the fact that he has Radial Disarm + Invisibility.

 

Spamming the two overcomes any challenge that doesn't involve Nullies, but then you just shoot the Nullies while staying invis from outside.

[Deidaku]

The only thing that needs updating is the switch teleport aiming

 

It's a pain

[Bender37]

Loki is not even remotely overpowered, and is a great vehicle for players to run unpopular missions solo. His invisibility needs to be active almost all the time in higher level missions, since he is the definition of squishy.

 

Calling for nerfs seems pointless to me... if you really want something changed, post a game- breaking video on Youtube and watch the magic happen. As far as Loki goes, his abilities are non lethal and hardly qualify as overpowered.

 

The frames that really need to be looked at are the weakest, or frames that require modding for one ability ( in cases where modding for a single ability has a negative effect on the others).

 

Honestly, I think Zephyr's turbulence is far more overpowered than Loki's invisibility, but how many Zephyrs do you see running around?

 

The easiest way to spot a ridiculously strong piece of gear in Warframe? When half of the pub matches you spawn into have 3 out of 4 players using the same gear...

[(PSN)Sybaris-]

Guys you are all missing one point.

When Loki is 0.1 seconds out of invis and 1 guy sees him, you immedeatly get bombarded with 5 rockets.

[Ibro156]

Am not camplaning about his abilities. Am just saying they needs to level scalling with Loki. Because Loki is one oldest frame, back in U7. They were barely any dmg scaling. Now were in U18! Loki should have some sort dmg scale for disarm, like requires certain amount of dmg to remove enemies weapons.