Rapier And Excalibur

[MichaelSD]

Doest the rapier get the sword bonus from Excalibur frame?

[[DE]Grzegorz]

A rapier is by definition a sword, especially as it has slash procs, but my question was if it HAS is or not, and not if it should or shouldn't. Thanks for the post though.

It's not recognized as a sword by the game.

[Helch0rn]

Good luck trying to cut anything down with a sword that isn't a katana style. You stab. It's fast, easy, it gets the job done better than slashing.

Look, there's no reason to not add it to excalibur's arsenal other than "i don't feel like it". TBH all melees should be in excalibur's arsenal. He is the quintessential melee character in this game. Why not?

Medival swords were not meant to cut or stab. Sharp edges are useless against chainmail and they are far too heavy to properly stab.

You pretty much clubbed your oponent to death.

[DrakeArron]

Medival swords were not meant to cut or stab. Sharp edges are useless against chainmail and they are far too heavy to properly stab.

You pretty much clubbed your oponent to death.

Really? That surprises me, I didn't know that. I assumed they were mainly meant for stabbing, as piercing motions I've heard more easily got through chainmale sue to it's maleable nature. But perhaps my information was wrong on that.

 

Of course, that's not really valuable to the discusion considering Excaliburs fighting style is certainly more of the curved sword/katana type sword, however I found that piece of information interesting so I wanted to ask about it.

[BornWithTeeth]

Medival swords were not meant to cut or stab. Sharp edges are useless against chainmail and they are far too heavy to properly stab.

You pretty much clubbed your oponent to death.

Not....actually all that true. Armour and weaponry developed hand in hand, each forcing the other to adapt. 'Medieval swords' is a very broad category, and the idea that European swords between 1100's and 1600's were great clumsy things which resembled flat crowbars is a dreadful piece of misinformation floating about.

Edited January 14, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[DrakeArron]

Not....actually all that true. Armour and weaponry developed hand in hand, each forcing the other to adapt. 'Medieval swords' is a very broad category, and the idea that European swords between 1100's and 1600's were great clumsy things which resembled flat crowbars is a dreadful piece of misinformation floating about.

I suspected that might be the case, however I didn't feel like directly confronting him on it as medival swords are definetly not my forte. I only know about the rapiers fighting style because I took fencing at one point.

 

EDIT: Could we try to keep this in good spirits here forward, if they weren't allready? (I can sometimes project my annoyance on to others, so I don't know). I'm only asking because I haven't been able to talk about weapons with anyone outside of my martial arts teacher in forever, and hes limited to asian weapons- and this is really fun :P

Edited January 14, 2016 by DrakeArron

[Rydian]

A rapier and a foil aren't the same thing, guys.

 

- Foils have square blades, are flexible, stab-only (no edge), and used for modern fencing.

 

- Rapiers are proportioned more like a sword, have rectangular blades, are double-edged, and can be used for slashing as well (unlike a foil).

 

Now let's look at the weapon itself in-game.

 

 

Well it features slashing attacks.

 

And it's double-edged.

 

I have yet to see the blade flex in-game.

 

And the blade is rectangular, not square.

 

So yeah, rapier, not foil.  Can slash, etc.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Rydian

[DrakeArron]

A rapier and a foil aren't the same thing, guys.

 

- Foils have square blades, are flexible, stab-only (no edge), and used for modern fencing.

 

- Rapiers are proportioned more like a sword, have rectangular blades, are double-edged, and can be used for slashing as well (unlike a foil).

 

Now let's look at the weapon itself in-game.

 

 

Well it features slashing attacks.

 

And it's double-edged.

 

And the blade is rectangular, not square.

 

So yeah, rapier, not foil.  Can slash, etc.

But that doesn't appear to be it's primary goal as a weapon. And its still a completely different blade and fighting style to the ones excalibur normaly uses, at least from what I saw in the preview video

 

And I've used a foil too, still a very different fighting style.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DrakeArron

[IANOBW]

Excalibur is the swordsman, I can't see why he shouldn't recieve the passive from the Destreza.

[Rydian]

But that doesn't appear to be it's primary goal as a weapon. And its still a completely different blade and fighting style to the ones excalibur normaly uses, at least from what I saw in the preview video

 

And I've used a foil too, still a very different fighting style.

It could be argued that katanas, using the iaido style, are quite different from normal swords as well, but those are included in his passives anyways.

 

(But anyways I'm just here to point out that a lot of people are thinking of foils instead of rapiers in their arguments... because I like bladed weapons and it irks me when people get them confused.)

[Syln]

Definitly should, he is a swordman and it's a sword, it seems to be more of an oversight than anything else.

[[DE]Rebecca]

Dev is discussing this today, will have an answer reasonably soon perhaps!

[DrakeArron]

Excalibur is the swordsman, I can't see why he shouldn't recieve the passive from the Destreza.

Because in that case, we might as well include every sword. WHich includes giant two handed swords. He uses a very specific kind of sword fighting style- just adding in every sword willy nilly is showing complete disrespect for his styles origins. And its not at all flavorful- the weapon equiped by his ultimate is nothing like a foil. Nothing like one- all of the other ones he receives the bonus from show clear similarities.

Definitly should, he is a swordman and it's a sword, it seems to be more of an oversight than anything else.

Same reply as to the other person. Anyone who says this obviously has no sense for the fighting style he uses or the weapons he uses.

[IANOBW]

Because in that case, we might as well include every sword. WHich includes giant two handed swords.

 

Yeah. He should.

 

He is the master of swords, we should treat him that way.

 

Using your flawed logic, Mesa should only be allowed to gain her passive with revolvers.

Edited January 14, 2016 by IANOBW

[Endrance]

Dev is discussing this today, will have an answer reasonably soon perhaps!

Since you guys are discussing that, could you also discuss the same issue but with Mios/Lacera?

 

 

It's a SWORD & whip after all.

 

 

PS: If it does already boost, then i apologize, i did test it when it was released, and at the time it did not provide the bonus, dunno about now.

[CrazyCatLad]

Dev is discussing this today, will have an answer reasonably soon perhaps!

Neat.

[Insizer]

Since you guys are discussing that, could you also discuss the same issue but with Mios/Lacera?

 

 

It's a SWORD & whip after all.

 

 

PS: If it does already boost, then i apologize, i did test it when it was released, and at the time it did not provide the bonus, dunno about now.

 

No they are not. They are large combat scissors with a whip.

[Endrance]

No they are not. They are large combat scissors with a whip.

Haha, very funny.

 

True that it is stated ingame has Blade & Whip, but still ^^

[Rheoidegen]

Yeah. He should.

 

No, he shouldn't. He is a master of swords. Again, you don't usually imagine masters of swordplay as going around, cleaving people to death with giant axes, eh?

[Rydian]

According to the in-game lore, Excalibur was specifically built to be fast and able to swap around with multiple damage sources.  I don't really see big axes as fitting that design.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Rydian

[(PSN)dursereg]

Nope, hydroid should get it.

[Stormdragon]

Nope, hydroid should get it.

Hydroid needs some love, but it doesn't change that Excalibur is the sword master and that rapiers are another class of swords, so they might be included to his passive to make sense with his lore.

[Ventura_Highway]

It's a sword. Yes

[Rheoidegen]

-snip- so they might be included to his passive to make sense with his lore.

By that logic, Galatine would also be included. So. Does Excalibur also get a 10% speed/damage buff with the Galatine? It is, after all, a sword.

[Dragazer]

Dev is discussing this today, will have an answer reasonably soon perhaps!

 

Can something be done for the heavy blades like Gram, Galatine and War as well? It would be nice if the passive worked on these weapons as well considering that they are swords too after all.

 

I find it a bit ridiculous that dual kamas, dual cleavers, dual zorens/basolk, weapons that are all not clearly swords, but still benefit from the passive. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Dragazer

[(PSN)Cwellann]

A rapier and a foil aren't the same thing, guys.

 

- Foils have square blades, are flexible, stab-only (no edge), and used for modern fencing.

 

- Rapiers are proportioned more like a sword, have rectangular blades, are double-edged, and can be used for slashing as well (unlike a foil).

 

Now let's look at the weapon itself in-game.

 

 

Well it features slashing attacks.

 

And it's double-edged.

 

I have yet to see the blade flex in-game.

 

And the blade is rectangular, not square.

 

So yeah, rapier, not foil.  Can slash, etc.

Thank you.

 

YES. EXACTLY. "Anything that isn't a katana style". Or Chinese dual swords. Both of which are what Excalibur uses. NOT anything that stabs. Show me one move where excalibur stabs.

...Have you never done a finisher with a skana?  Front or back, take your pick.  Go on.

 

By that logic, Galatine would also be included. So. Does Excalibur also get a 10% speed/damage buff with the Galatine? It is, after all, a sword.

Yep, it absolutely should be.  Mentioned that in my first post.  All the more so because it's an Arthurian sword that was gifted by the Lady of the Lake.

 

Also, there was something about katanas don't stab a page or two ago... some relatively prominent members of the Shinsengumi may have rolled over in their graves on that one.

 

Let's see, what else, a Skana looks more like a small sword than a long sword (ok, like a small sword and a saber had a baby), and small swords evolved out of the rapier.  The Skana absolutely DOES NOT look like a bastard sword, which is what a katana, essentially, is.

 

[DE]Rebecca, thanks for letting us know this is under discussion!

 

If anything above sounds accusatory, it's not meant to.

 

For reference, right out of Wiki:  A sword is a bladed weapon intended for both cutting and thrusting. The precise definition of the term varies with the historical epoch or the geographical region under consideration. A sword in the most narrow sense consists of a straight blade with two edges and a hilt, but depending on context, the term is also often used to refer to bladed weapons with a single edge (also referred to as a backsword).

 

Excalibur's not Gurney Halleck guys, he's allowed to kill with the point.

 

Edit:  Final snark... if there actually WAS an Excalibur, in all likelihood it would have had more in common with a gladius than anything else, and that's about as stabby as it gets.  

Edited January 14, 2016 by (PS4)Cwellann