Auction House

[Davoodoo]

Uffff...

Davoodoo:Anything that shows clearly that it is ah who causes lowering of prices and it isnt just up to flooding the market.

I

D3 experience.

You must have seen different d3 ah than me cause nothing of worth was cheap.

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4487609371

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5586798972

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4211082568

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592581113

Not only anecdotal evidence but can also be proven false using anecdotal evidence.

 

Also i would like to point to wow ah screenshots in my earlier post. 

That makes 2 examples disproving a trend.

 

Next

I said: To be more accurate, is the overall excess of supply that can make lowering prices. As a example in warframe you have WTS prime junk for 1 platinum.

Lowest possible prices are already present when we have no ah, thus ah couldnt be cause of it.

 

Next.

AH implies that all offer is ready to see.

We have excess supply whenever we have WTS prime junk for 1 platinum. In a enviroment that is hard to trade and we can not access to all offer.

So, if we have supply and we add more supply, in a free trade world means that prices drop.

Assumption using circular logic.

That aint even an evidence.

 

Anything else??

Edited January 13, 2016 by Davoodoo

[bubbabenali]

I want to prices kept high to discourage players from buying their way to higher MR, which means we should keep trading limited.

Ahh, such a selfless person.

DE should double your plat earnings for your noble cause.

[Davoodoo]

Again, let me reiterate my point: either pay up or play the game. I want to prices kept high to discourage players from buying their way to higher MR, which means we should keep trading limited.

And to the point of aucton houses: if the game allows players to check each other's listings, how do we decide the order of these listings? The player listed at the top will surely get the most views and likely the most sales. Then the issue of fairness comes into play.

No, no, no to auction houses. No, no, no!

Why not take it step further. Lets prevent players from buying stuff, remove trading and market.

 

But even if such thing wont happen i hope you wont sell anything cause that would encourage players to buy their way to the top.

 

 

Search function with categories and sort criteria.

http://imgur.com/econ4dy

Within example here, you can sort by lvl, price, time left, rarity and even sellers name.

In warframe it could be sorted same way.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Davoodoo

[Thrymm]

Again, let me reiterate my point: either pay up or play the game. I want to prices kept high to discourage players from buying their way to higher MR, which means we should keep trading limited.

And to the point of aucton houses: if the game allows players to check each other's listings, how do we decide the order of these listings? The player listed at the top will surely get the most views and likely the most sales. Then the issue of fairness comes into play.

No, no, no to auction houses. No, no, no!

 

Why would an auction house keep a person from "paying up"?  I'm not really seeing credits as the currency of choice for it

 

Also, you DO realize that you can obtain a high enough MR to use every single weapon in the game with nothing but the market, frame part drops from solar system bosses, and maybe a clan tech or two, right? 

 

As if that isn't enough, if a person is already interested in trading, buying actual firepower costs you next to nothing in current trade, except your sanity from sifting through it(you'll pay a trivial price to get a Soma Prime, or a Lex Prime, a Boltor Prime, or a Syndicate weapon, maybe a touch more if you catch a bad day and are willing to get screwed for a Prisma Grakata. The prices are already so low for this stuff that it either isn't worth farming it to get less or can't go lower in the first place because it's already only a plat or two per part.  You prevent nothing of the sort by keeping trade the pain in the arse that it is.

 

There are plenty of games out there that have auction house listings done right.  Figuring out what goes first isn't really rocket science.  Traditionally, items will display lowest price first, with tying prices showing lowest remaining time at the top.  Simple and fair, and if it's not to your liking most auction houses will let you rearrange the listings to see what you like--including highest price first so you can giggle at the scammers.

 

Auction house has alot going for it, frankly.  It includes more of the player base.  It allows transparency that greatly reduces bad trades.  It allows for a system that promotes play rather than sitting in chat.  There is more, but that seems like plenty.

 

If not an auction house, even a real Bazaar or shopfronts, or even an "order billboard" would have some real potential.  Trade in this game continues to garner interest, and that interest continues to tend toward noticing how outright clunky the system is. 

 

Justifying a clunky system that specifically keeps prices high seems like a pretty lofty goal, and honestly "keeping players from the goods" doesn't seem like that justification to me.

[WolfTitan]

Why not take it step further. Lets prevent players from buying stuff, remove trading and market.

But even if such thing wont happen i hope you wont sell anything cause that would encourage players to buy their way to the top.

Search function with categories and sort criteria.

http://imgur.com/econ4dy

Within example here, you can sort by lvl, price, time left, rarity and even sellers name.

In warframe it could be sorted same way.

Well, one could make the argument that the weapon blueprints from the market require resources to build. To get these resources, players must play the game. Removing trading altogether could be a little harsh but would indeed be the next step. I'm a little against removing trading because it is an important social component of the game - friends helping friends, friends gifting each other, etc.

And for the other points:

If buying prime weapons became so easy and cheap, then that essentially eliminates the point in playing the void missions to earn the parts, thus bypassing the core of the game. The void would indeed become void of Tenno.

[Davoodoo]

Well, one could make the argument that the weapon blueprints from the market require resources to build. To get these resources, players must play the game. Removing trading altogether could be a little harsh but would indeed be the next step. I'm a little against removing trading because it is an important social component of the game - friends helping friends, friends gifting each other, etc.

And for the other points:

If buying prime weapons became so easy and cheap, then that essentially eliminates the point in playing the void missions to earn the parts, thus bypassing the core of the game. The void would indeed become void of Tenno.

Im not talking about crafted items, im talking about plat purchased items.

So buying your way to the top is bad, but when friend gives you freebie, yep ok.

 

 

You kow how much it costs to buy boltor set atm?? about 20-30p.

What youre saying already happened, multiple times in fact.

But you know what else?? these parts dont materialise out of thin air, somoene must still play it.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Davoodoo

[WolfTitan]

So sad :(

 

Let's not make it worse.

Edited January 13, 2016 by WolfTitan

[syrusstk]

Many of you see this AH as a standard MMO AH, but this is warframe  that has already a trade system,   also a system were many players get scammed with the prices because for a new player  there is a no real tell what the current price is.

 

The only ppl  that  have to suffer are the ones that sell platinum  for real cash, just do a search on google you will find a lot  of forums and sites that sell it, we will hurt the income of someone if we implement AH.

 

Print screen:

That is why many oppose an AH because  real $$$$$ cash baby

 

Everyone see the AH as an automatization of selling item were you put an item and let it sell, nope,  the AH should just be an improvement of the trade chat, how so: 

 

1. The AH should just  contain the ads the price and a PM button, ads should expire after a set time, and should cost credits, the longer the time  the bigger cost in credits,  the ad in the AH should be connected to the player inventory, the moment it detects it's not in the inventory anymore  the ad  is auto-deleted  or manual delete an ad.

 

2. The AH should have all possible tradeable items in the game, each time you search or click  on that specific item the tab should extend with the list  of players selling it, and who is online for trading, PM that player  and go trade at trading post 

 

3.  The AH should have a  SELL TAB,  BUY TAB, TRADE TAB,   i think you guys will get the gist  of this, with the same limitation stated at point 1.

 

4.  Items in AH should be sorted in order of price, lower to higher for the selling tab, higher to lower in the buy tab, time left on the ad for the trade tab.

 

More transparency, less scammer, same system but cleaner.

Edited January 13, 2016 by syrusstk

[Davoodoo]

-snip-

At this point pm and trading would just be busywork and we might aswell cut it out and go with automatization.

Why?? because theres no drawback to this.

 

Stop trying to reinvent trade chat.

All known to me modern mmos with trading went with ah simply because it was better system.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Davoodoo

[syrusstk]

At this point pm and trading would just be busywork and we might aswell cut it out and go with automatization.

 

Why?? because theres no drawback to this.

 

Either way I am fine with an AH,  DE should realize that they are losing money with the current system, the moment someone else sell their platinum for cash (cheaper then them) should be a wake-up call.

[Davoodoo]

Either way I am fine with an AH,  DE should realize that they are losing money with the current system, the moment someone else sell their platinum for cash (cheaper then them) should be a wake-up call.

The thing is, that 99%+ platinum in game is bought so even someone resells their plat for real money de still gets their money.

 

As for 99% claim, de gives out 6k $ worth of platinum every half year on devstreams.

"In the six months leading up to April 30, 2014, Digital Extremes earned $27 million in revenue, or $8.7 million in pre-tax profit."

This is what they earn however in same amount of time.

[Date_Terumune]

Auction house will do only good stuff, from the point where we are right now, we got nothing but scammers that prey on newcomers that were lucky enough to buy their first plat

 

This barbarism has to end.

[WolfTitan]

-snip-

 

Thanks for your extremely toxic response.

 

1. I can't disagree that players can buy weapons, frames, and companions for plat to rank up.Same with Prime Access. However, those prices are kept artificially high so the majority of players don't go in there and buy everything up. The more logical path would be to buy the blueprint.

 

2 and 3. Good points.

 

4. You really like to over-generalize the fact that because someone disagrees with your opinion makes him or her a scammer. Now that is immature. I rarely use the trade chat, and in the event that someone offers to pay a price too high, I actually tell them that and re-offer a lower price.

 

Geez, toxic post is toxic...

[kleerr2]

Ok... OK! I see where this is going... the straw, the mojority of players seem to hold onto, to oppose the Marketplace idea seems to be ''Prices will plummet''(there are a few other, but those are egotistical and i don't think i should even bother to adress those for now).

 

So, can all of you ''Prices will plummet!!!" rocket scientists riddle me this PLEASE:

If the common price for NovaP's systems is 60p, and If there are one milion players selling just NovaP's systems at one time, and if the potentual buyers are only say 100 at that time...  If you CANNOT sell the NovaP System part for less than 40p(20p less than the common value), will it matter if the amount of sellers is hundreds or thousands of times more than the amount of buyers?!

[syrusstk]

1. I can't disagree that players can buy weapons, frames, and companions for plat to rank up.Same with Prime Access. However, those prices are kept artificially high so the majority of players don't go in there and buy everything up. The more logical path would be to buy the blueprint.

 

This is what you get with 20$ (370p +50p from new account)  ( or 5$ with -75% discount ), all usable at MR2 

 

And all this prices will get even lower with time.

 

Wyrm Prime Set 30p

Bo Prime Set  25p

Braton Prime Set 15p

Nyx Prime Set 55p

Nova prime set 150p

Volt Prime Set 100p

Burston Prime Set 20p

Paris prime set 20p

 

Even in an AH prices will fluctuate depending on supply and demand. But when you have ease of access even when you didn't buy before you will buy now, demand increases  prices go up, just imagine a town without a superstore, when one opens everyone is  there and they will spend more money because it's easy.

Edited January 13, 2016 by syrusstk

[xRufus7x]

Again, let me reiterate my point: either pay up or play the game. I want to prices kept high to discourage players from buying their way to higher MR, which means we should keep trading limited.

And to the point of aucton houses: if the game allows players to check each other's listings, how do we decide the order of these listings? The player listed at the top will surely get the most views and likely the most sales. Then the issue of fairness comes into play.

No, no, no to auction houses. No, no, no!

Or they could finally use the mastery system to properly tier the weapons and frames, preventing people at low ranks from crafting end game gear.

 

It's basic supply and demand. The moment you make it easier for players to dump their junk for trading, prices will plummet due to the increase in visible supply. Price drops means less Platinum sales for DE, which is why they have been so reluctant to implement an auction house for the past year.

But far more trades would occur. Each individual trade may be worth less but the sheer volume would likely counteract this.

Edited January 13, 2016 by xRufus7x

[Davoodoo]

Dont argue with "prices will plummet" no one yet proven that it will happen.

 

If someone says that it will happen respond with "no it will not, show some evidence".

Edited January 13, 2016 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)Kulogrande0]

Ok.

I like this thread when it goes in any direction. But in this moment it goes nowhere.

So. One main debate is if a Warframe gets a market with open knowing of all prices and the supply it will crash. Right?

Please. Tell every question that we disagree in a polite way.

And then, between all we gonna make the metrics of this game to see what right and whats wrong.

For example. Davoodoo has claims several times that i must give a proof of that AH will plummet prices, and despite my efforts he has not accepted any of my arguments.

Lets between us make the metrics of the game and make a real effort to approach points of view.

Saryn prime is just about to enter on scene.

On the next edition of this thread we must give data of how many sets we get for how many games we play. Even better if we datamined those datas.

And make a simple math to se how many sets gonna have in X time and if beyond Y point the market will crash or no.

A rules that all of we agree. So we can get a conclusión.

Otherwise its simply hotair.

Who suscribe this method?

What your rules?. Your expected results and how you read this data?. And as in science, theory must be falsable. So what results may invalidate your claims?

[syrusstk]

@PS4Kulogrande0 ( seriously big a@ss 0 :)) such creative ) now I gonna give you an example I experienced thru it.

Defiled Snapdragon stance:

- First few days of being released: 200p
- After first week: 100p
- After 2 weeks: 60-40 p
- After 1 month: 20p
- Now: 3p

 

And we don't have an AH, but if we did, the price would be the same. Because this is how things work:

At the beginning: Low supply high demand, high prices
Everyone starts to farm because $$$$$
After 2 weeks: Supply and demand are pretty much equal prices are dropping by the minute
More ppl farm
After 1 Month prices drop drastically, too many farming to little buying
No more $$$$ involved
Less ppl grind supply decreases, but the market is oversaturated and prices will keep being low.

Look at how nezha sells right now after 2 seasons, Nezha set is 80p, and it started at around 200p for the set in the first season.

Edited January 13, 2016 by syrusstk

[(PSN)Kulogrande0]

Ok. That's fine but...

You must make a predicction based on a theory, that later all must agree on what metrics will confirm this theory or will deny.

Then we proceed with the metrics. All at same time.

I agree with your conclusions but the side that defend a AH. Must agree with procedure too.

I like an upgrade that allows to not need to write your inventory everytime you want to make a deal. But no a AH.

[Davoodoo]

For example. Davoodoo has claims several times that i must give a proof of that AH will plummet prices, and despite my efforts he has not accepted any of my arguments.

You claimed existence of this phenomenon, burden of proof lies with you.

 

Yes arguments, you havent presented any credible proof.

Im not obliged to agree with everything you say and i pointed out why your points are wrong.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)Kulogrande0]

Nice.

Im not obliged to agree with everything you say too.

And everything that i can give as a proof you don't have to agree that is a proof too.

Even when a company has tried and failed you allways can say that its not a proof of anything and the real cause is other.

So... Why don't we try to agree in something. Like the way we can proof something. With real data. Ascertainable by all the forum.

I'm not afraid of being wrong. I like the truth. And i will reconsider my position over AH if we (all other players are wellcomed as this is to find a answer) agree in how we can proof one side or other.

[xRivaille]

As the title says, I think everyone knows what an auction house can do. I hope DE senpais will notice me :)

[DeMonkey]

Another day...

 

Another ''Auction House Suggestion''.

 

Another no from me.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DeMonkey

[(PSN)dat4120]

i would just be happy if you could just put items up to buy to make selling stuff easier example if i want to sell a telos bolter 20 plat i can just put it up online untill someone buys it. its just a pain in the butt having to wait 120 seconds to repost a wtb message and also waiting 20, 30 minutes a day waiting for someone online to be interested in what your selling.