Why do we need so many limited purpose ressources

[k05h]

In the recent Jordan mission I got annoyed that I had to farm for Pulsating Tubercles, Infected Palpators, Chitinous Husk and Severed Bile Sac which were only used to build a Pherliac Pod. And the Pherliac Pod's only use was to build a Potent Pherliac Pod. In the end that potent pod can only be used for one thing :-(

I do not get why we need to go through all those complicated builds within builds within builds when we have other underused and limited purpose ressources that could be used instead.

I mean take Tellurium which is annoying to farm and is only needed for handful of weapons and parts that came with update 17. With update 18 we got Nintain Extract that can also only be used for a handful of weapons and parts. Nav Coordinates or Orokin Ciphers do also come to mind when I think of limited use. 

It seems like an inflation of ressources where no need to have additional ressources exists. I just cannot understand why :-(

Farming for so many different ressources is just boring. And there are interesting ideas for new ressource around. I mean the concept of merging multiple ressources into one, like Fieldron or Mutagen Mass, is way more intriguing than just another underused new ressource. 

Cheers

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

Warfarm or Platframe.

 

Choose one.

Edited March 2, 2016 by --Q--Ascended-Seraphim

[Dextral]

Spoiler

Edited March 2, 2016 by Dextral

[LABAL]

Remember, this is not a single player game. If you have to grind, you have to grind HARD.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

It isn't obvious, but there is actually heavy reasoning behind adding more and new resources.

Most veteran players have multiples of 'dropped' resources. Nearly anything DE adds to the Market containing just these Resource requirements tend to be built immediately. There is no need to farm. Log in, buy the blueprint, begin building it, and log off. That's a problem. These players aren't playing the game/ spending Platinum on these new items. Retention begins to go down the drain. There is no sense of achievement, just a new thing.

This had begun to be combated by making these Resource requirements much larger, except this is a rather gross bandaid solution to the problem. It becomes either that newer players feel outright gutted trying the get these items and veteran players pay a dime, or newer players are catered to and veteran players feel nothing.

Introducing Oxium, one of the first newer resources. At its introduction, no one had Oxium, and so the items that required it became a huge undertaking by veteran and new players alike to achieve. For a week or two, heavy farming on Corpus nodes was the norm, in the name of trying to research and build Zephyr.

After a while, Oxium began to become just another Resource, but the method proved true for that short while. Introducing new resources with stricter requirements, such as Cryotic, Argon Crystals, Tellurium, etc and so forth.

 

A potential fix to the problem would be to relegate farming, cap a number of resources a person can have at once.
Another would be adding certain resources that decay if not used, making it necessary to farm it when needed (Argon).

[clemza]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)IIIDevoidIII said:

I After a while, Oxium began to become just another Resource,

 

They made it easier to farm (changed the amount dropped on killed mobs from 1 - 2  - 3 to 10 - 15 - 20) and added alerts that give 300 oxiums, so of course its going to be common.

Its like kubrow eggs, it's not rare anymore now, each times i am going on earth mission i see an egg when nobody is even farming for it and just destroyed the den by colateral damages :l

[CY13ERPUNK]

short answer? becuz dumb reasons

long answer? DE does not want to take the time to rebalance the ingame plat market and/or the ingame resource drops/locations/etc

it took like 3 yrs just for someone to correct the neurodes/neural sensors swap/screwup, i realize it was low priority, but THREE FREAKING YEARS?!?!? come on

basically every 'old' 'rare' resource is as common as fusion cores now, so all the vets have triple or quad digits in o-cells and whatevs else, and almost everyone is drowning in control modules thnx to some lazy DBA who set CMs to drop like candy in the void, which basically made a previously 'rare' resource ultra common =/

so since the vets all have stockpiles, and DE isnt willing to do the legwork to rework the resource/build/recipe system, instead every update when they roll out new gear, we get a new 'hard to obtain' resource to artficially prolong the grind and incentivize ppl to spend plat instead, even if only to rush the build

after argon, many thought that would be the end, since it degrades naturally, but apparently since enough ppl farm eryday, that just wasnt enough

also, think about nitain... obtain... nitain... ni... the knights of ni... 

is it objectively bad that we had so much resource bloat? maybe... but DE could certainly rework existing recipes ingame to make more logical consistency as well as rework drop rates, additionally we could  have more recipe use for old unused resources

for example, 'rare' resources could ONLY drop from bosses or as rare drops from lockers/crates, this would two-fold increase incentives to actually re-visit bosses as well as explore and loot, two things that are not well rewarded at all atm, and this could slow down the rare resource surplus in the future

 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

5 minutes ago, clemza said:

 

They made it easier to farm (changed the amount dropped on killed mobs from 1 - 2  - 3 to 10 - 15 - 20) and added alerts that give 300 oxiums, so of course its going to be common.

Its like kubrow eggs, it's not rare anymore now, each times i am going on earth mission i see an egg when nobody is even farming for it and just destroyed the den by colateral damages :l

 

 

Even before the buff, Oxium was just another resource. I had 3000-4000 while it still dropped in small quantities.

I actually had 2 eggs drop at once from Dens directly next to eachother recently. There is no feeling like that only to realize you can't pick up the second one. (a Resource cap)

[mindlord0013]

As a veteran player, I actually wouldn't mind a resource cap. That or a resource sink (creation of new relays, get cool stuff the more resources I put in).

[Tveoh]

Wouldn't mind a resource cap, ability to sell resources, trade them or even just dump them all in my dojo vault.    So that i have to gather resources for building personal items like weapons, frames or gear.   Since as it stands..  the only thing i'm farming right now is pigments, cause i have too many of the resources where i can just build whatever i want :/

[Deemmou]

As a solo Dojo owner (there's seven of us but I'm the only one actually researching and building stuff) everything can be gathered in a week without real effort into it. Alert based resources are a bit sketchy but as long as the prices for new stuff don't increase (noticed that recent weapons had almost double if not more resource needed for construction) getting new resources isn't a terrible idea as long as there is a place that you can farm it.

[Yaerion]

1 hour ago, k0Sh_wf said:

In the recent Jordan mission I got annoyed that I had to farm for Pulsating Tubercles, Infected Palpators, Chitinous Husk and Severed Bile Sac which were only used to build a Pherliac Pod. And the Pherliac Pod's only use was to build a Potent Pherliac Pod. In the end that potent pod can only be used for one thing :-(

I do not get why we need to go through all those complicated builds within builds within builds when we have other underused and limited purpose ressources that could be used instead.

I mean take Tellurium which is annoying to farm and is only needed for handful of weapons and parts that came with update 17. With update 18 we got Nintain Extract that can also only be used for a handful of weapons and parts. Nav Coordinates or Orokin Ciphers do also come to mind when I think of limited use. 

It seems like an inflation of ressources where no need to have additional ressources exists. I just cannot understand why :-(

Farming for so many different ressources is just boring. And there are interesting ideas for new ressource around. I mean the concept of merging multiple ressources into one, like Fieldron or Mutagen Mass, is way more intriguing than just another underused new ressource. 

Cheers

Vacuumed from General Discussion to Feedback General.

[(PSN)CowboyJeff72]

I'd be fine with a resource cap, but I'd like to see the ability to put resources in the clan vault added as has been mentioned by myself and others. At least we could "donate" materials that are sitting dormant and those items can be used for future dojo research projects. This would also allow clans that can't have all of their members on at the same time to be able to build items with dojo vault resources as opposed to having to wait for each member to show up and donate. 

[k05h]

2 hours ago, (PS4)IIIDevoidIII said:

It isn't obvious, but there is actually heavy reasoning behind adding more and new resources.

Most veteran players have multiples of 'dropped' resources. Nearly anything DE adds to the Market containing just these Resource requirements tend to be built immediately. There is no need to farm. Log in, buy the blueprint, begin building it, and log off. That's a problem. These players aren't playing the game/ spending Platinum on these new items. Retention begins to go down the drain. There is no sense of achievement, just a new thing.

This had begun to be combated by making these Resource requirements much larger, except this is a rather gross bandaid solution to the problem. It becomes either that newer players feel outright gutted trying the get these items and veteran players pay a dime, or newer players are catered to and veteran players feel nothing.

Introducing Oxium, one of the first newer resources. At its introduction, no one had Oxium, and so the items that required it became a huge undertaking by veteran and new players alike to achieve. For a week or two, heavy farming on Corpus nodes was the norm, in the name of trying to research and build Zephyr.

After a while, Oxium began to become just another Resource, but the method proved true for that short while. Introducing new resources with stricter requirements, such as Cryotic, Argon Crystals, Tellurium, etc and so forth.

 

A potential fix to the problem would be to relegate farming, cap a number of resources a person can have at once.
Another would be adding certain resources that decay if not used, making it necessary to farm it when needed (Argon).

Thank you, that is a reasonable explanation ... and I also like the idea of caps or having a slow decay. Maybe a combination of both. 

[Mephiste]

2 hours ago, mindlord0013 said:

As a veteran player, I actually wouldn't mind a resource cap. That or a resource sink (creation of new relays, get cool stuff the more resources I put in).

Material Skins! We already have Rubedo Rhino C:

[phoenix1992]

Hey now, I smelled some funny things.

Resource cap and decaying resources? 
If we have 4 types of unloading resources (that are not clan techs, or foundry shenanigans) :
1: Positive - just be able to sell them for credits, the same way you sell spare parts.
2: Neutral - the drop just won't come around any more - you have this, and the system re balances itself so you can the next part  (we have nothing like this for some reason (i know the reason, won't comment it)
3: Limit - put a cap on, like with the affinity.
4: Negative - the stuff you worked for, will be gone if you do not replenish it.

While it is okay, for one resource to work in this way (and that makes it special in a good way), it would be flat out awful and punishing if more resources go MIA. And putting a cap will be offsetting. I do not like, that we are thinking in negative and restricting light, instead of positive.

Edited March 2, 2016 by phoenix1992

[KaneAshe]

Honestly the problem is simple and I do not understand why DE has not taken the time to implement the proper fix.

If Veteran players actually have things that they actually want to spend resources on, then they won't have huge stockpiles sitting around waiting to instabuild the next new thing unless they are also constantly farming all day every day (in which case, they DESERVE to be able to instabuild the next new thing).

The problem isn't resource stockpiling, it's resources piling up because there is nothing to use them on.

Having something to actually use your resources on would do more than just fix this specific problem, it would also make farming a lot more fun because you would know the stuff you are getting is actually useful.

[phoenix1992]

2 hours ago, KaneAshe said:

Honestly the problem is simple and I do not understand why DE has not taken the time to implement the proper fix.

If Veteran players actually have things that they actually want to spend resources on, then they won't have huge stockpiles sitting around waiting to instabuild the next new thing unless they are also constantly farming all day every day (in which case, they DESERVE to be able to instabuild the next new thing).

The problem isn't resource stockpiling, it's resources piling up because there is nothing to use them on.

Having something to actually use your resources on would do more than just fix this specific problem, it would also make farming a lot more fun because you would know the stuff you are getting is actually useful.

I generally have the same mindset with you, but I realize why this is hard to happen - Content can not be just dropped without any quality for it. Sure, it is easy to reskin some guns, swords and so on and present them as new, but players tend to rip such kind of content to shreds. You can see the Sword and Shield - they are really nice in the visual aspect, the combos are imaginative and look well, but the weapons are not competitive next to the others. New players enjoy it, old players do nasty comments.

[Maicael]

13 hours ago, (PS4)IIIDevoidIII said:

-snip-

A potential fix to the problem would be to relegate farming, cap a number of resources a person can have at once.
Another would be adding certain resources that decay if not used, making it necessary to farm it when needed (Argon).

I made the same suggestion on a topic I made, but (almost) everyone there disagreed with it. Talking along the lines of not limiting farming in a game focused on farming. I'm surprised to see a number of others here supporting it, but I think a cap would also promote more farming if there's something you use it on. Large Energy Restores, for instance, could use up Nano Spores if you keep building them without acquiring more, and if you've just built a large number and a new weapon comes out that needs Nano Spores, then you'll have to go get more.

One of the things I tried pointing out was Alloy Plate. Veterans can have loads of it (~1.8mil here), but according to the list on the wiki you only need ~36,000 to build everything that requires it (91 items). That's including the 6,000 required by the newly-released Staticor alone (previous highest required was 1,200).

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

it would be good if we could just dump the excess resources into the dojo via the treasury console and also just scrap/sell the useless ascaris thing/nav beacons etc.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

4 hours ago, KaneAshe said:

Honestly the problem is simple and I do not understand why DE has not taken the time to implement the proper fix.

If Veteran players actually have things that they actually want to spend resources on, then they won't have huge stockpiles sitting around waiting to instabuild the next new thing unless they are also constantly farming all day every day (in which case, they DESERVE to be able to instabuild the next new thing).

The problem isn't resource stockpiling, it's resources piling up because there is nothing to use them on.

Having something to actually use your resources on would do more than just fix this specific problem, it would also make farming a lot more fun because you would know the stuff you are getting is actually useful.

More powerful gear. For example add heavy unit specter blueprints to syndicates. I mean if one juggernaut specter cost 100000 nano spores alone and is worth using..

There's very little gear. Not even a sentinel reviving item.

[UltimateGrr]

6 hours ago, KaneAshe said:

Honestly the problem is simple and I do not understand why DE has not taken the time to implement the proper fix.

If Veteran players actually have things that they actually want to spend resources on, then they won't have huge stockpiles sitting around waiting to instabuild the next new thing unless they are also constantly farming all day every day (in which case, they DESERVE to be able to instabuild the next new thing).

The problem isn't resource stockpiling, it's resources piling up because there is nothing to use them on.

Having something to actually use your resources on would do more than just fix this specific problem, it would also make farming a lot more fun because you would know the stuff you are getting is actually useful.

The problem here is that I can farm up everything needed to craft a weapon faster then DE can get the thing into the game.  It takes weeks to make new equipment (design iterations, designing the new animations it may require for things like reloading, quality control on it all) while it takes hours to farm the needed mats for anything that doesn't need Nitran to build.

[Loswaith]

In a game developing as Warframe is veterans will always have more resources than newer players to the point they can make anything they want as soon as they can get the blueprints, that is the benefit of being a veteran and adopting the game early.

In essence developing games need to be designed with the concept that the gear was always in the game from the time a player starts playing, because in a complete game (not one in continuous development) all the gear is available so gathering resources means there will often always be a use for them as you gather them. 

This is why when new resources are added there is a uproar of "more grind" that is forgotten a few weeks later once a stockpile is gathered.  New players would be gaining these stockpiles while playing and making other things while veterans only have that new thing to make (because we all know it takes longer to create content than to play with it).

The biggest issue with resources though is there is no balance of use to gathering.  We gather hundreds of common and uncommon resources while trying to gather rare ones, but then we only use a fraction of those hundreds gathered when using those few rare resources we needed to actually build the gear.  As an example detonite ampules, fielderon samples and mutagen samples are the worse offenders in that regard, as they are gathered frequently but have very little to no use (given full versions from invasions/infestations).

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

Craftable Orbiter Compartments Anyone?