My take on the Tenno

[BornWithTeeth]

@Genitive, hah, beat you to it!

[Amuga]

Quite honestly I'm in agreement with the overall disappointment of the reveal of who the "Almighty Tenno" turned out to be, some snarky teenager.

I was pretty ready for the Tenno to be revealed as some semi-corporeal void-energy-corrupted beings who essentially use Warframes through a power much like possession (Think like classic haunted hollow armors, or Edward's brother from Fullmetal Alchemist) and thus link themselves to it.

So it's safe to say that when the reveal came in the quest I very quickly turned off operator dialogue and felt overall underwhelmed by it, I still really enjoyed the quest and thought many it was overall good and fun, but like many said, the snarky/edgy one liners and general look were fairly off-putting but they could be addressed (as others have also mentioned) by enabling some extra customization and enabling you to make your Tenno to not be/look, y'know, under the legal drinking age.

[Mcl_Blue]

10 hours ago, Magneu said:

You're embarrassed to play this game?

Don't play it.

 

 

DE is already working on more Operator improvements/changes (watch the last two devstreams), so they'll become more customizable.

The Tenno are here to stay; personally, I welcome it.

This, completely.

[taiiat]

18 hours ago, TectonicKnight said:

accompanied each time by almost comically grandiose music.

i can't take that seriously.
you hate the Music in that room? you hate the Music that was used in Second Dream?

why? how?
do you not appreciate Music and have a comically narrow view of it?

i'm a Metalhead through and through, but that Music was used very appropriately and it sounds awesome in the context of Warframe, it matches the elegance that Tenno/Warframes are supposed to represent.
would i listen to it just to listen? perhaps not. that doesn't mean it isn't excellent.

[Genitive]

35 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

@Genitive, hah, beat you to it!

Nooooo!

 

Still, the idea is great.

[BornWithTeeth]

49 minutes ago, Rebellis said:

I think it's up to you to prove what you claim - "it goes against 99% of other games and other forms of media even."

His entire claim? That's a pretty tall order. On the other hand, suppose we keep it to within a genre?

 

Let's say "Science Fiction shooter video games ".

Gears of War - Grizzled space marines.

Mass Effect - Space marine protagonist. Grizzle is optional.

Halo - Space marine protagonist. Level of grizzle is unknown, but massive amounts of the 'roid is pretty much confirmed.

StarCraft - Jesus look at all those PAULDRONS. (Sorry, not a shooter. Still pretty iconic though.)

BulletStorm - Space pirates, but with extra grizzle to make up for it.

Crysis - Less space adventure, but loads and loads of power armour and marine.

Killzone - Space marines, kills ze space nazis in ze power armour.

Aliens: Colonial It's In The Title Isn't It. Isn't It.

Chronicles of Rid$&*^ - Grizzled murderer balds his heavily muscled way through murder grizzling.

Project:Snowblind - No space, but grizzle McCyborg marine saves the day.

Metroid - Holy crap, it has an actual reveal to it! or, it did, back in the day. Surprise, Samus is a girl, and you just beat the game playing as her.

Warframe - You're actually a crippled child soldier who's been lied to, brainwashed, and used. Your power armour is a remote proxy body, you never knew what you really were, and you're as much as two years into the game before even hit the character creation screen

 

 

Yeah. For science fiction action games, that is actually devastatingly original. Maybe the genre as a whole could stand to be a bit more flexible?

 

BEHOLD! THE STUNNING ORIGINALITY OF VIDEO GAMES AND THEIR PLAYER CHARACTERS!

Edited March 15, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[CrazyCatLad]

I wholeheartedly, 100% think us being teenagers was the worse thing to happen to this game.

I hate going into the Focus room. I hate seeing that child. I hate when I click on Focus in the menu and it teleports you there.  I have its voiceovers turned off. I Press 5 and press 5 once again to obtain the passives but hardly use the active.  I was so pumped for Focus but it was mangled into what we have now - a teenage aberration of convergence energy orbs that make less sense than the Operator.

 

Yes I'm salty.  That quest, although fun until the reveal, needs a big ole CTRL-Z.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Lanieu

[Rebellis]

19 hours ago, TectonicKnight said:

Wait. I think this guy took my order at Burger King yesterday.

[Tekka_Croe]

I guess since we're talking about operators...

I love the concept.  I like having a customizable, unified "face" behind all my Frames.  I am however somewhat ambivalent about the execution.  The lack of appearance options isn't really the issue, I figured they were going to add more over time.

What bugs me is our inability to customize the way our Operators interact in-mission  I'd love to able to select what kind of dialogue they use.  I imagine my Tenno being very matter-of-fact and mission-oriented, so it'd be nice to be able to remove all the inane remarks from her dialogue pool.

I also find it odd that our Operator transmissions don't show up for other player's who have completed The Second Dream.  I figured that the Operator transmissions were meant to simulate in-mission chatter between teammates, so it's weird that only we see them.  I'd love it if when my buddy tags a target, I'd get a little transmission from his Operator saying "tagged an enemy" or something similar.  I think that having everyone's operators reacting to context-sensitive stuff like that could really enhance the feeling of team-play, especially when hopping into a game with randoms.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Tekka_Croe said:

I guess since we're talking about operators...

I love the concept.  I like having a customizable, unified "face" behind all my Frames.  I am however somewhat ambivalent about the execution.  The lack of appearance options isn't really the issue, I figured they were going to add more over time.

What bugs me is our inability to customize the way our Operators interact in-mission  I'd love to able to select what kind of dialogue they use.  I imagine my Tenno being very matter-of-fact and mission-oriented, so it'd be nice to be able to remove all the inane remarks from her dialogue pool.

I also find it odd that our Operator transmissions don't show up for other player's who have completed The Second Dream.  I figured that the Operator transmissions were meant to simulate in-mission chatter between teammates, so it's weird that only we see them.  I'd love it if when my buddy tags a target, I'd get a little transmission from his Operator saying "tagged an enemy" or something similar.  I think that having everyone's operators reacting to context-sensitive stuff like that could really enhance the feeling of team-play, especially when hopping into a game with randoms.

Dead right. Having a couple of attitude choices would be amazing.

 

Anyone played XCOM 2? The sheer range of dialogue options for squaddies in that is amazing. Multiple different voices, in multiple accents per country, further divided by several different attitudes? It's godlike.

[Grimlar]

My advice? Dont read too much into it, until we get the full story, which we havent yet.

The Lotus watches me and gives me instructions, similarly, the Tenno watches me work and makes generally meaningless comments.

Unless you think the Tenno is talking to themselves, you are not the Tenno/Operator.

This suggests to me that a warframe is a composite being, physical aspect/basic combat intelligence provided by the biological aspects of the Warframe, (possibly an infestation survivor, uncontrollable except by Tenno,) overall control/focus/powers provided by the Tenno.

Even if Im wrong, it may feel more comfortable to think of it that way.

As for the stories we collected about some of the warframes in the quests, they arent necessarily lore breaking, it is possible the first warframes of that type genuinely had tenno in them, or were the only warframe controlled by that tenno. Maybe too many tenno have now died and now each tenno runs multiple frames, selecting the right tool for the job. Didnt someone say they could hear infested somewhere in the liset?

[Amuga]

8 minutes ago, Lobotomy said:

50 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i can't take that seriously.
you hate the Music in that room? you hate the Music that was used in Second Dream?

why? how?
do you not appreciate Music and have a comically narrow view of it?

i'm a Metalhead through and through, but that Music was used very appropriately and it sounds awesome in the context of Warframe, it matches the elegance that Tenno/Warframes are supposed to represent.
would i listen to it just to listen? perhaps not. that doesn't mean it isn't excellent.

This. I may enjoy listening to metalcore, melodycore, grindcore, speedcore, etc, (as well as other genres of music) but when I go to check on the Operator the music that the game plays just pulls on my heartstrings and the feels are immense. Second Dream was a great questline all around and the music throughout was exceptional. I think it was smart of them to have the music played again in that room as a fond reminder of all that you went through to reach where you are now.

I read that differently. I thought the person who posted this was saying that the epic music does not match the "bratty teenager" attitude that Tenno dialogue/look presents.

But I could be wrong.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Amuga

[Genitive]

18 minutes ago, Tekka_Croe said:

I guess since we're talking about operators...

I love the concept.  I like having a customizable, unified "face" behind all my Frames.  I am however somewhat ambivalent about the execution.  The lack of appearance options isn't really the issue, I figured they were going to add more over time.

What bugs me is our inability to customize the way our Operators interact in-mission  I'd love to able to select what kind of dialogue they use.  I imagine my Tenno being very matter-of-fact and mission-oriented, so it'd be nice to be able to remove all the inane remarks from her dialogue pool.

I also find it odd that our Operator transmissions don't show up for other player's who have completed The Second Dream.  I figured that the Operator transmissions were meant to simulate in-mission chatter between teammates, so it's weird that only we see them.  I'd love it if when my buddy tags a target, I'd get a little transmission from his Operator saying "tagged an enemy" or something similar.  I think that having everyone's operators reacting to context-sensitive stuff like that could really enhance the feeling of team-play, especially when hopping into a game with randoms.

I would like to use voice commands, like 'I need help/ammo/mana' or something. Right now only few of the transmissions are not silly.

[Wolfglaive]

Keep in mind that while they may have young looking features and thin-limbed bodies, the Tenno themselves are much older, even not accounting for cryostasis. Space-ninja vampires, essentially.

[Xardis]

I dont look like it, I and think Im even a being that permenently owns one body. Since transferance is a thing I consider a "Tenno" body as just a necessary container for ones essence. I indentify myself with the immaterial being the enhabits frames and that body. Its true that that being evolved form a body. This is as true to lore as a person who identifies with that Tenno. I do not think Tenno are those bodies, Tenno inhabit those bodies.

[Pizzarugi]

From a story perspective, I actually like the puppetmaster concept. Try and keep an open mind here, but if the Tenno are a secret order of space ninjas, you yourself would need to be just as secret if not more. You shouldn't be on the frontline doing the work, you should be the one lurking in the shadows and having others do your bidding.

So long as you continue to work from the darkness, you are inexhaustible, unkillable. They cut your warframe down, but you will return again and again.

[Yrveth]

25 minutes ago, Tekka_Croe said:

I also find it odd that our Operator transmissions don't show up for other player's who have completed The Second Dream.  I figured that the Operator transmissions were meant to simulate in-mission chatter between teammates, so it's weird that only we see them.  I'd love it if when my buddy tags a target, I'd get a little transmission from his Operator saying "tagged an enemy" or something similar.  I think that having everyone's operators reacting to context-sensitive stuff like that could really enhance the feeling of team-play, especially when hopping into a game with randoms.

I do hope we get this feature. It would make a lot more sense to broadcast to your team when you mark eg a mod for them. I wonder if perhaps it doesn't work that way at the moment because it could be abused to spam people with transmissions...

[AEP8FlyBoy]

20 hours ago, TectonicKnight said:

So here I am on the forums pleading, please, do something about this horrible, horrible mistake.

I'd rather my Tenno be locked permanently in a stasis chamber so that I don't have to look at it, because the revelation that I am not playing as a bad &#! space ninja, but a deformed puppet master makes my entire experience playing Warframe feel completely hollow, and recommending this game to a friend at this point could not be a more remote thought.

It sounds like you should become an Acolyte, friend... if you despise what you really are that much.

While I didn't quite agree with how DE handled this reveal at first, basically telling us "Hey, this is what you are, and what you were this entire time." after many of us bonded with our Warframes and felt like that was who we were, identified as a suit of armor basically. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it explains quite of bit of lore behind the scenes as to why Tenno can have multiple Warframes and why they can switch between them at will. I personally think it is pretty neat.

It's okay to not agree with the game or the direction it is taking, but this is the vision DE has... and unkind or disrespectful words about what they have done so far, in my honest opinion, are unneeded and unwarrented... it's okay to disagree don't get me wrong, but complaining that you don't like the path a game and its development process is taking, and pleading to the developers or to the community to initialize a change... is completely unnecessary and frankly, sad.

I personally don't agree with your statements, and probably most people wouldn't either. I don't see any of what Digital Extremes revealed as a detriment to the game, in any aspect... if anything it is diversifying the standard for how a game should work, and I like differences. The community is full of different types of people, all praising this game for its respectful team of developers and its F2P theme... (although most choose to purchase anyway... and that's okay, because it only helps the game grow as a whole).

Keep in mind, that this game is still in Open Beta, and that lots of features are subject to change in the future. If you don't like the fact that a child (as far as we know) is sitting in a chamber in your ship, basically controlling or directing you while in mission; then that's your thing.

While I agree that it was a lot to take in, and that there were some negative experiences from the Second Dream and what it revealed to us... the majority of the playerbase, myself included, derived great joy from it! I like the idea that I'm just a little girl sitting in the back of a ship, basically playing a video game... while playing a video game. (and do note, that we do not know just what the Warframes themselves are just yet... I have a feeling it will be revealed soon enough.)

I respect you for voicing your opinion, even though it wasn't a positive one. But just remember, the cries of the few can't be heard over the cheers of the many. While you may disagree with the path the game is taking, it is only for Digital Extremes to decide where the path leads; as a player, you are just along for the ride.

Wherever that road may lead.

Edited March 15, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Necrius]

I hate how they're so childish. They should've grown up and matured. I wanna my operator have a stubble and spit out some ancient philosophy, not some teen bullcrap. 

 

P.S. They should've at least made 1 Operator face and personality per existing frame... That would add work to implementing new ones, but c'mon, wouldn't this improve the game?

[phoenix1992]

Okay some clarifying since, there are actually not one but two main topics in here:
1) Teen Tenno
2) Implementation of Tenno

Please be mindful to not mix those up together. I do not "dislike" the fact that the tenno is young being. Even more, from the point of the fact that in many anime and fantasy fiction, the main character is a young person - teen or young adult. Before you start trowing examples of cases, in which this is not the case - I did say many, not majority or all.

Here is a example of poor implementation from my point of view -  something that happened during the Second Dream quest - the Tenno does not show any kind of interest or affinity towards the Warframe. It would be much more... touching if the Operator wanted to touch the frame, or at least part of the equipment. Yes, he did reach to the frame, for the piggy back ride, but he needed that. He did not, at any moment reached, just out of basic... aliveness towards the frames. He did not show interest. Something that would not cost much (from development point of view), would be the simple act of bonding. Of touching the helmet of a frame, or the hilt of a sword/barrel of the gun. If the operator, did at least that he/she would gain a little respect from me. 

And we have a being in our ship that does show affection towards us. Our kubrows are much more dynamic, they want our attention, wiggle around and generally behave like something. Right now the Tenno acts more like a puppet, even though it should be the other way around.

[AEP8FlyBoy]

6 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Okay some clarifying since, there are actually not one but two main topics in here:
1) Teen Tenno
2) Implementation of Tenno

Please be mindful to not mix those up together. I do not "dislike" the fact that the tenno is young being. Even more, from the point of the fact that in many anime and fantasy fiction, the main character is a young person - teen or young adult. Before you start trowing examples of cases, in which this is not the case - I did say many, not majority or all.

Here is a example of poor implementation from my point of view -  something that happened during the Second Dream quest - the Tenno does not show any kind of interest or affinity towards the Warframe. It would be much more... touching if the Operator wanted to touch the frame, or at least part of the equipment. Yes, he did reach to the frame, for the piggy back ride, but he needed that. He did not, at any moment reached, just out of basic... aliveness towards the frames. He did not show interest. Something that would not cost much (from development point of view), would be the simple act of bonding. Of touching the helmet of a frame, or the hilt of a sword/barrel of the gun. If the operator, did at least that he/she would gain a little respect from me. 

And we have a being in our ship that does show affection towards us. Our kubrows are much more dynamic, they want our attention, wiggle around and generally behave like something. Right now the Tenno acts more like a puppet, even though it should be the other way around.

These are all subject to change, and as Operators recently got released, there is probably way more to come.

As for the reason they are so young, perhaps it is because while they were in the Reservoir, their Somatic Pods put them under some sort of low-level cryostasis. It would explain why they haven't changed much at all from the Old War.

Then again, as you can see... beings such as the Corpus and Orokin probably had super long life expectancies, such as 300-400 years or so... maybe more even. For all we know their physical ages could be from anywhere from 50-80 years, as Darvo is basically a young adult and he is near 100 years old or so...

Chronologically speaking however, from the date of the Tenno's birth, they are probably hundreds of years old. There is nothing saying or confirming anything as to how old they are. Like, sure... they look young, but for all we know... they could be as old as dirt already. xD (At least in human standards.)

But the Tenno, as the Lotus said... "are more than human, but were once children like any other."

Would be cool to know though, I would be interested anyway.

Yeah, and I would like to see more personality from our Operators... I wanna seem my Tenno specifically walk up to my incubator just to pet her Kubrow. That would be cool. And as for their supposed disinterest to the Warframes at first, even though that was the body they thought was theirs for so long... that could be just something that DE didn't think of exploring just yet.

I have a feeling things that will really flesh out the Operators will happen soon. Along with more customization options, like different suits, more hair... facial scars, facial hair and all that stuff... Just takes time.

We have to be patient.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Lanieu said:

us being teenagers was the worse thing to happen to this game

Hehehehe... this can be read several ways xD

In all seriousness, I personally don't mind the operator looking like a child. It's just their appearance. My headcannon of a centuries-old, silent, human-turned-eldritch soldier/warrior/protector thing stays perfectly in place, and them being shaped like a child only adds extra creepiness via dissonance. The only thing that goes against it is their voiced lines, which I can mute in three keypresses.

As for the lore thing... most things seem to be in their proper place, and as a writer myself, I can forgive the holes, the cheesy/cliche bits, and the minor contradictions pointed out before. They don't affect my enjoyment of the game (which, personally, is about the strange mystic of the space-magic-scifi setting, and the combat mechanics themselves) nearly as much as the operator not being mute-able would be. And given that this is a game in permanent development, it is more than understandable- for DE, while the story and the setting are obviously important, their small-scale self-consistency still plays second fiddle to gameplay and market necessities.

[Krion112]

It seems a lot of people are assuming precisely what Hunhow thought; the Warframe is just a puppet for the Tenno.

This clearly isn't the case; the Warframes are their own beings; their own characters. Each Warframe is a unique character, not just a hollow machine.

Rhino Prime's codex first hinted at this concept, while also hinting at Transference in the first place. What can be assumed to be a Primordial Rhino runs rampant without a Tenno operator; it had its own goals and agenda. And then, it enters what can be assumed to be a chamber in which the Tenno were kept, and abruptly it stopped and became confused, looking down at its hands, wondering what it had been doing.

Then, we see our Warframe break the War when its lodged in their body during the Second Dream. Without Tenno influence, it carries out this action, apparently in an attempt to save its Tenno operator. 

These situations suggest that Warframes do not need a Tenno to be alive or functioning. Shutting down when the operator 'disconnects' may be a failsafe implemented by the Orokin, as the Primordial Rhino proved a Warframe was dangerous without something to calm its thoughts.

The Tenno doesn't become the Warframe; they simply calm the storm in their mind. They clear their thoughts, allowing the Warframes to become the silent and efficient warriors that they are, and allow them to express their personalities. In fact, The Warframes don't even need the Tenno to enact their powers, as can be demonstrated by Tenno Specters and has been demonstrated by the Primordial Rhino, which used Rhino Charge and Iron Skin without Tenno assistance. Obviously, this link has some other purpose. 

You're not playing as a puppet master or puppet; you're playing as the essential bond between two symbiotic beings; the Tenno and its Warframes. You can align more to either side, either embodying your Tenno or embodying each of your Warframes, but you're not just one or the other as both are characters that you play as in-game.

The Warframes are not puppets and the Tenno are not puppet masters; they are a symbiotic force that need one another.

As such, being upset that you play as a kid is an irrelevant point; you can more align yourself with your Warframe, which is indeed the silent assassin/ninja warrior character you're wanting to be, and is in fact a separate character from your Tenno.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Krion112

[StonedMakak]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

His entire claim? That's a pretty tall order. On the other hand, suppose we keep it to within a genre?

 

Let's say "Science Fiction shooter video games ".

Gears of War - Grizzled space marines.

Mass Effect - Space marine protagonist. Grizzle is optional.

Halo - Space marine protagonist. Level of grizzle is unknown, but massive amounts of the 'roid is pretty much confirmed.

StarCraft - Jesus look at all those PAULDRONS. (Sorry, not a shooter. Still pretty iconic though.)

BulletStorm - Space pirates, but with extra grizzle to make up for it.

Crysis - Less space adventure, but loads and loads of power armour and marine.

Killzone - Space marines, kills ze space nazis in ze power armour.

Aliens: Colonial It's In The Title Isn't It. Isn't It.

Chronicles of Rid$&*^ - Grizzled murderer balds his heavily muscled way through murder grizzling.

Project:Snowblind - No space, but grizzle McCyborg marine saves the day.

Metroid - Holy crap, it has an actual reveal to it! or, it did, back in the day. Surprise, Samus is a girl, and you just beat the game playing as her.

Warframe - You're actually a crippled child soldier who's been lied to, brainwashed, and used. Your power armour is a remote proxy body, you never knew what you really were, and you're as much as two years into the game before even hit the character creation screen

 

 

Yeah. For science fiction action games, that is actually devastatingly original. Maybe the genre as a whole could stand to be a bit more flexible?

 

BEHOLD! THE STUNNING ORIGINALITY OF VIDEO GAMES AND THEIR PLAYER CHARACTERS!

 

Hidden Content

 

 

Yeah, action video games lack variety in that regard, you're right. Truth be told, in games like Crysis or Colonial Marines (oh god, that one's terrible) which are going for somewhat realistic setting, expecting someone other than a professional soldier to be the protagonist is rather naive. Personally I'm more bothered by the fact that so few of them are female. I think the bit about "other forms of media" was questioned, because there is entire genre about kids with special powers that encompasses books, movies, TV shows etc. From what I'm told, as I don't watch it, anime is also chock full of this. The "it was all a dream, you're actually someone else!!!" twist is also extremely lazy writing, right up there with MacGuffin and Deux Ex Machina.  

I don't recall anyone complaining that we are not the manly macho black ops commando. What people are pointing out is that we got something equally cliche, even if it's not as widespread in video gaming. There is nothing really original about it for me, though I'm an older guy and I've read/played/watched a lot of stories so that may be the reason. 

That child soldier bit doesn't jibe very well. They act like Power Rangers, not children that have been exposed to the horrors of war (watch Beast of No Nation or even Blood Diamond if you wanna see child soldiers). But then again, they can't actually act as child soldiers because actual war is horrible and Warframe war is tons of fun. Hence, why they say the stupid S#&$e they say.  So don't be surprised that instead of focusing on lore implications, people focus on what they actual experience in-game and the fact that a convenient human avatar is convenient. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by tisdfogg

[AEP8FlyBoy]

26 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

Then, we see our Warframe break the War when its lodged in their body during the Second Dream. Without Tenno influence, it carries out this action, apparently in an attempt to save its Tenno operator. 

These situations suggest that Warframes do not need a Tenno to be alive or functioning. Shutting down when the operator 'disconnects' may be a failsafe implemented by the Orokin, as the Primordial Rhino proved a Warframe was dangerous without something to calm its thoughts.

 

The Warframes are not puppets and the Tenno are not puppet masters; they are a symbiotic force that need one another.

That tidbit in the end of the Second Dream was a clear indicator that the Warframes are indeed more than what they seem. Just look at the Acolytes, they are clearly separate beings from the Tenno, and refer to the Tenno as the ones that suppressed us, that they are undreaming and untainted by the ways of the Tenno.

While it could be said that the Warframes do not need the Tenno to be alive, per say... The Tenno do indeed need the Warframes, as the energies of the Void within them would tear them apart if they didn't have a conduit to channel them away from their once human forms.

Indeed... The Warframes aren't puppets at all, and that was perhaps the biggest secret of all. A secret that the Orokin died with at the Fall. Symbiotic relationship or not, the Tenno and Warframes need each other to survive. The Warframes would run rampant, concerned about nothing, and would tear anything apart that crosses their path were it not for their Operators. And the Tenno would not be able to survive as the energies within them build up, were it not for an outlet, an outlet they found in the Warframes.

And with that union, a power, a bond was formed... a bond that the Orokin used to only better themselves, a jealous greed that only brought about their demise... at the hands of those they created. It can't be said exactly why the Tenno chose to betray the Orokin and the Empire, it could be inferred that the Lotus herself (Natah, the Sentient, in Margulis' body) took it upon herself to exact revenge for Margulis, and her fight to save the children of the Zariman.

Or perhaps Natah was just carrying out her plan to rid the system of the Orokin once and for all, and the Tenno with them. But after realizing what they were, and the fact that she couldn't bear children of her own... she hid them away, in the Second Dream, before casting the Moon into the Void, so that nothing of her kind could ever bring harm to them, to us.

She just... wanted to be a mother. Where's the evil in that? I see so many people discounting what the Lotus has done for us, but after all she sacrificed, and after all she turned her back on to be there for us...

Why would so many be swayed by their doubt in her?

Edited March 15, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy