RIP competitive PvP. Dark Sectors will no longer have PvP according to dev stream 71.

[clemza]

Just now, LOLGNuts said:

Have you ever deploy a rail before? How about nova, limbo, exca 's ability, good luck to avoid them

I was trying all the time, and never been able to deploy of course.

Nova ? you have the time to run away while she ult, nobody use limbo, exca just run away or counter him with nyx ult, anyway that is way more ballanced now then before you know and what is the point making abilities not being able to kill anyone ? :l

Don't you remember ashe ult ? or even vauban skills in the darksector pvp even oberon ult was good :>

[(PSN)DBR87]

While the new info about Dark Sectors not having PVP is a little sad, because I was waiting for a BALANCE DS conflict, I can understand if they changed focus.

I don't know abut the rest of the community, the Solar Rail conflicts I remember participating back in my Mastery Rank 8 days where an absolute mess. On PS4, I am apart of the Dominating Alliance through Clan ShUn. We literally out funded every effort to take any Alliance and Clan rails. It wasn't about skills and tactics. It was about what clan/alliance had the most money and who knew the best cheese strategies. Of curse I ran it because back then I thought credits where a big deal... :/

Suffice to say, I did not miss Solar Rail Conflict shenanigans one bit and completely understand if they are focusing on a more cooperative Solar Rails game mode instead of a cheese filled mess whom the winner has the most money.

[-BG-MagicalAbyss]

1 minute ago, clemza said:

I was trying all the time, and never been able to deploy of course.

Nova ? you have the time to run away while she ult, nobody use limbo, exca just run away or counter him with nyx ult, anyway that is way more ballanced now then before you know and what is the point making abilities not being able to kill anyone ? :l

Don't you remember ashe ult ? or even vauban skills in the darksector pvp even oberon ult was good :>

Well you have to play more conclave, people use them for easy kill, that call no skill involved

[clemza]

 

Just now, LOLGNuts said:

Well you have to play more conclave, people use them for easy kill, that call no skill involved

I do play conclave everydays, since i have to do the daily quest to see my conclave syandana effects.

Your right its not that hard to kill with abilities, but i assure you its not that hard to avoid or find a way to counter them either, you also have to use your abilities anyway we are warframes. It's just about finding a good frame / weapons / play style synergie that will allow you do counter others or helps you to deal in differents situations

[rockscl]

i was secretly hoping for the return of DS to connect conclave to the rest of the game in a deeper way

[-BG-MagicalAbyss]

6 minutes ago, clemza said:

 

I do play conclave everydays, since i have to do the daily quest to see my conclave syandana effects.

Your right its not that hard to kill with abilities, but i assure you its not that hard to avoid or find a way to counter them either, you also have to use your abilities anyway we are warframes. It's just about finding a good frame / weapons / play style synergie that will allow you do counter others or helps you to deal in differents situations

I don't use ability, same in Dark Sector, that the only way to improve my skills. And I don't care how many times I got spammed on ability, I never use it, believe me or not.

Edited March 18, 2016 by LOLGNuts

[Phasedragon]

2 minutes ago, LOLGNuts said:

I don't use ability, same in Dark Sector, that the only way to improve my skills. 

If you really wanted to improve your skills back then, you go to europa conclave, where everyone used snipers and semis. "improving your skills" in the chaos of dark sectors beyond just "improving how well you farm noobs" is laughable.

[-BG-Siran_Kari]

1 minute ago, Phasedragon said:

If you really wanted to improve your skills back then, you go to europa conclave, where everyone used snipers and semis. "improving your skills" in the chaos of dark sectors beyond just "improving how well you farm noobs" is laughable.

are you saying there is no point in improving your fighting as long as you can "farm noobs" as you said?

[-BG-MagicalAbyss]

Just now, Phasedragon said:

If you really wanted to improve your skills back then, you go to europa conclave, where everyone used snipers and semis. "improving your skills" in the chaos of dark sectors beyond just "improving how well you farm noobs" is laughable.

I was a noob back then, a MR 2 with a braton, a lato and a skana, just so you know.

[Trimaxsingi]

1 minute ago, Phasedragon said:

If you really wanted to improve your skills back then, you go to europa conclave, where everyone used snipers and semis. "improving your skills" in the chaos of dark sectors beyond just "improving how well you farm noobs" is laughable.

Ohh I was liking the old conclave... They removed those maps and I'm sad now... : (

They could bring this new conclave in another way without removing the old one... I was raised in those old conclave maps... I luv it

But there is one more thing I loved, and that was dark sectors and they ripped it off my chest...

[clemza]

8 minutes ago, LOLGNuts said:

I don't use ability, same in Dark Sector, that the only way to improve my skills. And I don't care how many times I got spammed on ability, I never use it, believe me or not.

what the point of not using abilities, this aint an "fps" type game

[-BG-MagicalAbyss]

Just now, clemza said:

what the point of not using abilities, this aint an "fps" type game

Just because spamming ability is cheap with no skills involved, without ability it will be challenging, and I love challenge.

[clemza]

Just now, LOLGNuts said:

Just because spamming ability is cheap with no skills involved, without ability it will be challenging, and I love challenge.

i knew you were going to say using abilities means no skills ... Its a part of the game. Being able to use nyx ult at the last moment or to counter an excalibur ult for ex.

As you like playing without using them, some players do like to play with them, and yeah some only seek for blue orbs and spam they ults, but that a part of the game, as long as you have fun, its all good :)

[-BG-MagicalAbyss]

3 minutes ago, clemza said:

i knew you were going to say using abilities means no skills ... Its a part of the game. Being able to use nyx ult at the last moment or to counter an excalibur ult for ex.

As you like playing without using them, some players do like to play with them, and yeah some only seek for blue orbs and spam they ults, but that a part of the game, as long as you have fun, its all good :)

yes I know that they seek for fun. I just play PVP seriously just like what I did in Dark Sector which is required more skills.

[rockscl]

sadly this thread has only like 8 posts related to "i want/i dont want ds pvp"

[ChameleonDude]

As has already been said, so long as there's no situation in which mechanics are exploited, clan politics affects PvE or there's a reason for some idiots to DDOS the game just so they can hold a node... I don't mind seeing PvP gone from Dark Sectors. We still have PvP in the game for now; and I'm sure something clan-based will return at some point, but having it tied to nodes where you could tax people for resources the clan didn't even need... that proved too much for some people to handle, so it looks like it has to go.

[-BG-MagicalAbyss]

1 minute ago, ChameleonDude said:

As has already been said, so long as there's no situation in which mechanics are exploited, clan politics affects PvE or there's a reason for some idiots to DDOS the game just so they can hold a node... I don't mind seeing PvP gone from Dark Sectors. We still have PvP in the game for now; and I'm sure something clan-based will return at some point, but having it tied to nodes where you could tax people for resources the clan didn't even need... that proved too much for some people to handle, so it looks like it has to go.

We don't want this game mode to be gone forever, we want a better version of it which involve PVP and PVE at the same time. You as founder, I believe that you already got over 90% of the gear in the game with a least few forma, and completed all the quests. What next?? Wait for next new update? Conclave? Tactical alert? Sortie? Those game mode are not enough for us, the very end game players. 

[ChameleonDude]

17 minutes ago, LOLGNuts said:

We don't want this game mode to be gone forever, we want a better version of it which involve PVP and PVE at the same time. You as founder, I believe that you already got over 90% of the gear in the game with a least few forma, and completed all the quests. What next?? Wait for next new update? Conclave? Tactical alert? Sortie? Those game mode are not enough for us, the very end game players. 

A wild assumption, seeing as I know founders with basically nothing; but if we do a tick list of owned/completed stuff - yes, it's basically full. Personally, I use all that fancy, forma'ed out gear to actually play the game and enjoy it, not just to efficiently farm the next new thing. But I'm aware that not everyone plays that way, and that we're digressing from the topic there.

A better version with PvP and PvE would be lovely in an ideal world, but I think we've already proven that some parts of this community just can't handle competitive clan-based content. The only issue is that a solution to this issue hasn't been found. DE has had a long time to mull over this one and we've heard the conclusion that they've reached (for now). Also, having kept an eye on threads on this topic over the months, I've not seen one suggestion from a player which would actually work either. I would love for this kind of content to be in game (personally, I'd like to imagine something similar to all the wheelings and dealings in EVE, but with added Tenno running around causing more mayhem - quite a tall order), but if people see any reason to start manipulating and exploiting systems (battle pay, contesting allied clans' rails) or outright making the game unplayable for others (DDOSing), I don't want to see it in the game. Is this a case of some spoiling it for everyone else? Yes, it certainly is. Players shouldn't be doing things like this, but they did them regardless and I have no reason to believe that this would change should similar content be returned to the game. I'm fine with clans participating in competitive gameplay using whatever underhanded tactics they please, so long that this is via actual intended game mechanics (not exploits or crimes) and doesn't affect those not participating in this type of content.

If anyone can come up with a solution to this problem, I'd offer to print off 100 copies on bright pink paper and stick them all over DE's HQ. However, neither the playerbase or the developers have been able to do this yet; all we ever see are posts asking for Dark Sectors to return, ignoring the literally game-breaking issues which coincide with it.

Edited March 19, 2016 by ChameleonDude

[-BG-MagicalAbyss]

20 minutes ago, ChameleonDude said:

A better version with PvP and PvE would be lovely in an ideal world, but I think we've already proven that some parts of this community just can't handle competitive clan-based content.  

 

20 minutes ago, ChameleonDude said:

but if people see any reason to start manipulating and exploiting systems (battle pay, contesting allied clans' rails) or outright making the game unplayable for others (DDOSing), I don't want to see it in the game.

People are like that, even now people still DDOS-ing warframe for greedy. The problem is that DE remove Dark Sector without improving it, and left a big disappointment. Many players did not fully understand what is "Dark Sector" and start calling out that this is not fair, or we abusing the game and use DDOS or exploiting. Why not they just remove the taxed on the node? Why not make a time limiting for each attack? etc, just like conclave, but with clan-based competitive and able to control the node.

[LordOfScrugging]

3 hours ago, Knaimhe said:

Certainly, friend. Here you are, with explanations attached.

  Reveal hidden contents

So you see, Dark Sectors were originally put on armistice due to poor balancing and the potentially tedious nature of taking over Solar Rails (if there were no defenders, the mode was just a sabotage grind), not because the idea of PvP was flawed. DE told us that they would refine and reintroduce Solar Rail Conflicts: "we've set to working hard on delivering a new competitive experience".

Additionally, we can examine the following excerpt from this thread by DE_Adam:
"PvP 2.0 is on the way... While our primary focus has been creating a balance playing field within Cephalon Capture we do recognize that other elements of Warframe’s PvP environment deserve the same treatment -- particularly Dark Sectors... We’ll keep everyone informed on when Dark Sectors will come back online under the new ruleset, in addition to any future changes that may occur on our PvP focused game modes."

(excerpted because the thread is closed and un-quotable)

Let it never be said that I don't provide evidence to support my statements.

 

Are you kidding me? Your argument is that "things change"?
How does that in any way justify anything whatsoever?
"Oh sorry, I planned to pay you back, but things change."
"I didn't mean to cheat on you, but you know... things change."
"I know I promised not to invade Czechoslovakia, but the thing about things is that... they change."

If you're so comfortable with things changing, then why don't we change the promise that Excalibur Prime would be exclusive to the Founders Program?
Do you think that would be a healthy business practice?

"Things change" is an empty platitude, nothing more.

You ok there? you need to cut down on the sodium, it's not healthy for you bud. Things change, that's how it is. if it weren't the case, we'd still be using CB mod trees, no frames would have been reworked, we wouldn't have the conclave we have now, etc. you might have some personal issues you need to deal with, spouting random nonsense like cheating and such. there is always professional help there buddy, go get some.

[(PSN)Double991]

I swear the whole reason the dark sectors went down was to polish conclave 2.0 so that seems like a lot of extra work creating this new conclave just to not use it.

[Suska]

A Conclave bracket system could be implemented that includes clan/alliance elements.

Clans and alliances must be made relevant again, this is a stated goal - even Steve said so, and we have been assured this is being addressed in their current vision of DS.

It's pretty clear to me that the problem they had with DS was how it generated tensions.

What we want is war, as Knaime said, diplomacy, strategy, logistics, tactics and skill all rolled into a conflict with the potential for a meaningful reward. Not a footrace, and not sport-fighting. It's a tall order, and I know full well how ugly it can get, but that's how it is. Tell us you're working toward that, give us stepping stones, at least don't rule it out - what Rebecca said today sounded like 10,000 Tenno switching off all at once.

[Forizenajay]

7 hours ago, igo95862-LookingForClan- said:

In dev stream 71 it was just confirmed that new Dark Sectors won't have any PvP included in them.

That means there is no more purpose to PvP. No more clan, alliance competition.

Competitive side is what could have made PvP a large part of the game. Now its just a small grindy mini game. Grind your daily challenges and get out. No reason to play it to improve your skills as there is no competition involved.

Dark Sectors was the part I was most looking for in Conclave 2.0 I played Conclave to be prepared for them, I practiced my skills to be rewarded in Dark Sector conflicts but now its all meaningless...

I think their goal is to separate the rewards so that people who play the game for fun/for pve aren't at a disadvantage with any rewards because they may not want to do PVP.

 

I know that people train in conclave specifically for dark sector, but most other games allow you to play pvp separately without missing out on the game itself. 

 

I think DE has a lot to learn, and although pvp won't be for future dark sectors it doesn't mean it's counted out for something else that might be on the way. 

[Genitive]

I'm actually interested in the new Dark Sector. I am pretty bad at Conclave and only get frustrated by it, so something competetive-ish that isn't necessarily focused on fighting other players sounds pretty good to me.

Then again, we don't know how exactly the new Dark Sector will work.

[Suska]

I'm not totally on-board with a Conclave based clan conflict system, I granted that separation because I figured that when they started building this game they didn't have PvP in mind. It's a hard task to balance what is already in play, mainly because the audience is already invested, but also because there are so many factors and synergies involved you just have to play it a lot and see what happens. The goal should be a balance of powers/melee/projectile without making concessions to availability - power in clan conflict should not be balanced for new players, but it should offer diversity of tactics at the top end.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Suska