We need an Auction House..

[TARINunit9]

22 minutes ago, Ellthan said:

Yeah riiight, nobody has a succesfull auction house today.

 

You know, at this point even saying "I want to scam newcommers" would be taken more seriously than this pitiful excuse.

Let's ignore for a moment that you're a profiling jerkface who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is a scammer, and the fact that I deliberately underprice everything I sell, and look at the logic for a moment

Auction houses don't exist in Warframe for two very good reasons. #1, as already stated, is that auction houses have sucked dong ever since Diablo 3 and those scars still haven't healed, and likely won't for a long time (remember, most players only play zero or one MMO games; Diablo 3 is the only in-game auction house 80% of us have ever even HEARD OF). #2 is where the real meat is...

Warframe simply has too much stuff. Warframe has so much stuff, that 90% of it is worthless. Almost everyone has more prime parts than they know what to do with. The only items that have any sort of competitive prices attached are Spira Prime, items in the Prime Vault, Vengeful Revenant, and SOME of the Prisma guns, which you will note are items that have a very, very limited supply. Everything else, from the Boar to the Vaykor Marelok and everything in between, has saturated the market. Everyone has everything, so no one can sell anything

The system that's currently in place slows down trade massively, primarily to keep prices from dropping through the floor. It's far from perfect, but it's a permanent safeguard. It's the same safeguard the US stock market uses, when they unplug all their computers on a bad day to slow down trades and keep prices from tanking

Any auction house in Warframe would need to limit the amount of stuff to a quite frankly ridiculous degree. And not the normal method of "mastery rank trades per day". No, we would need to take something DRASTIC, like "2 auctions a day, period". Otherwise, why would anyone ever bid more than 1 plat? There's five more auctions one slot down with no bids on it

Edited May 7, 2016 by TARINunit9

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

Let's ignore for a moment that you're a profiling jerkface who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is a scammer, and the fact that I deliberately underprice everything I sell, and look at the logic for a moment

Auction houses don't exist in Warframe for two very good reasons. #1, as already stated, is that auction houses have sucked dong ever since Diablo 3 and those scars still haven't healed, and likely won't for a long time (remember, most players only play zero or one MMO games; Diablo 3 is the only in-game auction house 80% of us have ever even HEARD OF). #2 is where the real meat is...

Warframe simply has too much stuff. Warframe has so much stuff, that 90% of it is worthless. Almost everyone has more prime parts than they know what to do with. The only items that have any sort of competitive prices attached are Spira Prime, Frost Prime, Mag Prime, and Ember Prime, which you will note are items that have a very, very limited supply. Everything else, from the Boar to the Vaykor Marelok and everything in between, has saturated the market. Everyone has everything, so no one can sell anything

The system that's currently in place slows down trade massively, primarily to keep prices from dropping through the floor. It's far from perfect, but it's a permanent safeguard. It's the same safeguard the US stock market uses, when they unplug all their computers on a bad day to slow down trades and keep prices from tanking

Any auction house in Warframe would need to limit the amount of stuff to a quite frankly ridiculous degree. And not the normal method of "mastery rank trades per day". No, we would need to take something DRASTIC, like "2 auctions a day, period". Otherwise, why would anyone ever bid more than 1 plat? There's five more auctions one slot down with no bids on it

They have sucked since the early days of WoW, auction houses just attract bots that buy everything under a certain threshold then resell them at the maximum allowed price.

That is why DE has refused to implement the horrors of an auction house, it kills the economy.

[(PSN)OppneusKorsuss]

26 minutes ago, Ellthan said:

No. I think everyone who opposes auction houses is a scammer.

Not everyone who disagrees with me.

Keep making assumptions tho.

 

I like trading with people "face to face" instead of clicking a button. I like trying to get a good deal, or haggling to sell something at a good price. I suspect implementing a AH would lower prices across the board, thus harming DE's sales and ability to create more content for the game. I often straight up give away mods instead of selling when a player is new/low mastery.

 

So yeah, keep making those assumptions.

[(PSN)OppneusKorsuss]

1 minute ago, Ellthan said:

Cool. Keep doing that. Introducing an auction house doesen't mean removal of trade chat.

Cool. A AH might make tradechat it more or less useless though. Also that does not address the suspicion that a AH might end up damaging DE's plat sales, and thus their ability to further create content for the game.

[KIREEK]

I don't prices to be fixed, i don't like the idea of having to sell something above or below a value i have calculated myself.

If the auction house includes the feature of placing an item and then deciding that the buyout is a value that i mention, then full steam ahead.

[kitsu]

I am fine with an auction house long as it is treated like other auction houses, a fee to list an item, a limit on number of items to sell at a time, time limit for said sale to be up, and lastly a percentage cut (tax) for anything sold through auction house, including a plat tax on trades with plat.

[grillv20]

I would love to see an actual auction house system within the game. I think that if DE went through and maticulously set a reasonable bare minimum price on items it could be great. It would help a lot with certain items being flooded into the market and being essentially worthless like they are now in the current trading system. I also think that it could bring in more platinum sales for DE since the accessibility for items and mods would go up as a result. It would be a win win for both the players and the company.

[TARINunit9]

@Ellthan And you're still profiling people. It's like talking to a brick wall for you

Oh, and by the way, your airplane metaphor? Yeah, that actually DID happen, briefly enough. You're clearly not old enough to remember 9/11. So apparently my arguments hold a lot of water after all by your logic

[SilentMobius]

19 hours ago, ToxicTroublermaker said:

You say not to regulate the pricing yet thats exactly what this system you suggest is doing. Indirectly mind you but still regulation nonetheless.

You also seem to be forgetting the whole "trade" part of the trading system. We WANT to keep item to item transactions, not forgo them in favor of making Platinum the only way we can make and kind of deal or trade.

And btw what you are suggesting is a socialistic system with the devs directly manipulating transactions and pricing and such. We really REALLY don't wanna go down that road.

Again with the bloody regulation..... This isnt a socialistic economy mate, its a capitalist one with an actual free market. No one is forcing you to buy at someones price and besides that, as mentioned above, they were advertising for that price. It doesnt mean they actually sold it. Sure maybe someone did buy it at that price. Are they upset about it? Hell no, they got exactly what they paid for for the price they WILLINGLY paid.

You may not agree with wanting a free market where everyone decides their own prices without a regulating middleman but the majority of us like our freedom.

Welcome to Capitalism.

This is a game anything that gets in the way of that is ripe for alteration. socalism, capitalism, regulation are all available to be dissected and eviscerated. The observed IRL rules of supply and demand do not hold when you can wave a magic wand and control all of the variables.

A "Free market" has no value here, "capitalism" has no power here. All that exists is the game world and that is predicated by engagement and fun and "capitalists" are not fun, they are A******s, the sooner they are neutered (as they are in many other games) the better.

And I'm not forgetting "trade", substitute any of those platinum values for an item if you like.

And yes, we do want items to be tradable once because it serves the game need (and DE's need) while neutering the A******s who want would rather be playing "A****** tycoon" rather than Warframe.

I think you'll find that the majority actually want the game to be fun, freedom to trade is not even close to important,.

Edited May 7, 2016 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)Soo_Unreal]

I'm against an auction house.

But I'm also for it. 

Auction houses have an issue where it brings prices down because how convenient they are. It's easy to throw a bunch of items in there and wait where as now it's domand/time spend in chat. The plus side of an auction house is exactly what I just said: it's convenient. 

[TARINunit9]

@Ellthan

It must be blissful to be able to relegate anything you don't like with "HA HA!!11 WHO'S WRONG NOW, PLANES WERE NEVER BANNED!!11"

Before 9/11, airports had basically no security. They only checked your firearms, but besides that you could waltz right into the airport. Everybody loved planes. Nobody was afraid of flying

After 9/11, you could expect to sit in airport security for over a half-hour. You couldn't bring nail clippers into a plane, everyone was terrified of flying. We still had to do it, because it was mandatory for our economy, but airport stocks plummeted and everyone was terrified. In the days following 9/11, you had untold thousands of airport reservations cancelled and as many people as could get away with refusing to fly anywhere. Even today, fifteen years later, there are lingering stigmas, airport security insisting on holding you up for fifteen minutes or more, this whole shampoo bottle thing because they're afraid you have nitroglycerin in it

 

Now as for auction houses. Take the backlash from 9/11 against planes and airport security, and scale the body count down to zero, and add in the existence of social media. You have "auction house" being a viral buzzword for "den of scammers, bots, and developers skimming money off the top". It doesn't matter that a lot of people still trust the idea, or even if the statistical majority trust the idea. The problem is that he idea is out there. Ideas fester. Ideas worm their way into the mind. In addition to the minority that swear off auction houses entirely, you also have the undecided. The neutral ground. They now hesitate. They second guess. They think twice before dropping any money in. It's the subtle fear that kills the auction house. Between a drop in revenue and the vocal minority backlash, the developers panic. They buy into the fear. And they think twice as well. The auction house simply fails

You insist that auction houses are successful, but I'm not seeing any sources. You haven't actually given us any examples of auction houses that haven't crashed and died. Except maybe WoW, which predates Diablo 3. You can stand here and shout "AUCTION HOUSES ARE AMAZING!!11 EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS A HYPOCRITE AND A SCAMMER AND A THIEF!!11" all you want, but if all you want to do is act biased then we don't have to treat you as anything but

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by TARINunit9

[TARINunit9]

1 minute ago, Ellthan said:

You know who you remind me of?

That angry kid in the playground, that whenever was proven wrong, simply swore off everyone and run crying screaming "I WON I WON".

Funny, that's who you remind me of

[TARINunit9]

@Ellthan

Actually, can we start over? I admit I got... emotionally charged there. I should have caught myself when I started talking about 9/11 (even though the "holy s**t I'm terrified of planes!" and the resulting airplane stock crash was very real)

The crux of my argument that I utterly failed to articulate the first time around was this: 

22 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Now as for auction houses. Take the backlash from 9/11 against planes and airport security, and scale the body count down to zero, and add in the existence of social media. You have "auction house" being a viral buzzword for "den of scammers, bots, and developers skimming money off the top". It doesn't matter that a lot of people still trust the idea, or even if the statistical majority trust the idea. The problem is that he idea is out there. Ideas fester. Ideas worm their way into the mind. In addition to the minority that swear off auction houses entirely, you also have the undecided. The neutral ground. They now hesitate. They second guess. They think twice before dropping any money in. It's the subtle fear that kills the auction house. Between a drop in revenue and the vocal minority backlash, the developers panic. They buy into the fear. And they think twice as well. The auction house simply fails

THIS is why I believe auction houses are temporarily doomed. The word "meme" gets misunderstood a lot, but this is a truly memetic concept. The word "auction house" has been tainted. Much like "free to play".

Quick! What popped into your mind when you read "free-to-play"? Keep that in mind for a moment...

Let's be clear: you can't play Warframe and not believe that free-to-play has genuinely-awesome potential. But when you hear "free-to-play", you probably though of a Dungeon Keeper Mobile type scam where the developer only cares about whales and shilling premium currency, or making you wait five days for paltry pennies. The idea only stays in your mind for a second or two, but it happens. And that stigma, that attached idea, that negative connotation, is what "meme" means

And it's the memetic awfulness of Diablo 3's auction house crash, is what I believe auction houses are up against. That's what I believe is what's making DE refuse to add an auction house

I certainly don't appreciate you calling me a greedy scammer, though

[Fionntan]

Just connect warframe.market and Forum Trade section in-game. Done & done.

[SilentMobius]

52 minutes ago, Ellthan said:

You know who you remind me of?

That angry kid in the playground, that whenever was proven wrong, simply swore off everyone and run crying screaming "I WON I WON", ignoring what the adults were trying to tell it why it was wrong.

I highly recommend the following for increased peace and sanity while browsing the forums.

You've chosen to ignore content by TARINunit9. 

 

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to General Feedback.

[xmegarockx]

auction house will destroy wf economy so no please no.

[Strikerays]

as i said, IS NOT NECESARY TO BE AN AUCTION HOUSE, they can just implemente warframe market in the same game, or that we can put our store like Ragnarok Online or something that is not always required to be in the trade chat page or unable to continue playing.

[Dracorya]

Yeah sorry but...no. Every game I've seen where an AH was controlled by the players is open to way too much manipulation. I was talking with a co-worker who explained to me about the AH in Black Desert. Interesting because the items you list on that market are at a fixed price. Meaning players aren't in control of the pricing.

Now if we had something like that...I'd be behind an AH. But to suggest we put in an AH like how the one in WoW works? No way. Then you'd get the people who get their giggles by deliberating overpricing something and then people severely undercutting. Its a giant mess.

Though a different trading interface might be nice instead of you trying to spot the deal you want among the sea of messages would be something.

[Lyravain]

 

On 4/5/2016 at 1:05 AM, LittleArachnid said:

The current market needs to be looked over, goodness knows how many people that are new to the trade chat are getting conned out of more plat than an item is worth. Just look at how ridiculous the parts for Ember prime are, or the average 300-500 plat Frost prime set is. I sold a Saryn prime set for 200 plat and that was the average price that people were advertising as well. Primes like Nyx go for cheap because of a less demand for her.

However I think that there needs to be a regulation on the prices people can advertise for their items, all fair in wanting to sell a set but it's another thing to make someone pay ridiculous prices for something. 

Example: Any prime warframe/part cannot go over 500 plat, no prime weapon can go over 250 plat.

But a rule I learned was to not buy prime weapons for over 100 plat. People that are advertising the things they want to sell for a ridiculously high price would be made to reduce the price (so that it's reasonable and not overly priced for a prime part/set/weapon). The most I'd pay for a prime frame is 250 plat, but Frost prime I could give a special exception to and consider higher but no more than 450 plat.

There is so, so much wrong with this.

Free economy; the ability to buy and sell items at the prices you desire to. Whether you want to play 100k plat for a mod, it's your choice, just as it is mine to sell it at that price or not. If you check on items that have been enough time in the drop tables (i.e. not-new primes and not-vaulted primes, or non-event-only mods) you'll see their prices to be stable and unchanging, because people have collectively judged them to be worth that much. Don't try fixing what isn't broken.

The whole price-and-demand is one of the most basic and fundamental parts of trading. What is rare goes for more, similar for what is considered 'must have'. To bring a relatively recent example; Ember Prime. Remember back when everyone hated poor Ember? When sets were sold for 12 plat? I do. Now her sets go for 1100plat, minimum, on some sites. Just imagine what'll happen to Loki, heh.

In simpler terms; if you're new and don't do your research or ask your clan, it's your own damn fault. Besides, if you're new to the game and don't know much about it, why the bloody hell are you willing to spend that much real-life money on a warframe? And I'm point at real-life money, because if you had actually farmed enough primes to trade for 500plat for that shiny Frost set, you wouldn't be 'new'.

And yes, I did get conned out of my hard-earned plat. I still remember the day I bought Oxium with plat because I didn't stop and research how to get the damned thing (despite me now having over 32k of it, just sitting there). You know what that made me do? Not stop the game, not complain about the state of the market. It made me research, ask for price-checks, look around and be patient. It made me learn to play the trading game, how to talk others into dropping their prices or increasing my own.

So, no, we don't need an Auction House. Might be cool to have, but personally, I'd still rather go face-to-face (or faceplate-to-faceplate as the case might be) and negotiate prices. In all honesty, given the time that would be needed to encode an Auction House, wouldn't you rather they spend that time solving the real, problematic bugs of this game (like getting stuck inside those accursed doors)?

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

On 5/7/2016 at 1:17 PM, (PS4)ElZilcho said:

Your feelings have no business influencing trades you aren't part of.

Maybe so, but there's a point where you are ripping someone off by overpricing them for an item. It's called being reasonable to the one you are trading to. I don't think it should be assumed every seller is going to rip off someone by overpricing things but there has to be a point where ripping someone off 100+ platinum isn't fair on someone isn't right either. The point I'm making, that there needs to be some kind of regulation so that people are getting the right price in plat for a trade. 

 

 

[ToxicTroublermaker]

On 5/9/2016 at 0:09 AM, LittleArachnid said:

Maybe so, but there's a point where you are ripping someone off by overpricing them for an item. It's called being reasonable to the one you are trading to. I don't think it should be assumed every seller is going to rip off someone by overpricing things but there has to be a point where ripping someone off 100+ platinum isn't fair on someone isn't right either. The point I'm making, that there needs to be some kind of regulation so that people are getting the right price in plat for a trade. 

 

 

But thats all up to individual opinion whether something is overpriced or not. For the buyer the lowest price for an item they want is best and they can find that price by doing some digging and haggling.

 

Just cause one guy is selling a prime part for 100p doesnt mean the next guy will because the price isnt set in stone. All it takes is some effort. See the regulation you're proposing results in the same thing you're trying to prevent: potential ripoffs. And thats up to interpretation of whats a ripoff or not, the difference is in a free market its very flexible and highly likely someone will get the price they want with some effort. However in a regulated economy with fixed pricing for all items its guaranteed to get ripoffs and theres no wiggle room to get a better price because everyones selling at the same price.

 

Thats the core issue of regulation, lack of freedom of choice.

[ToxicTroublermaker]

On 5/8/2016 at 4:11 AM, Ellthan said:

See that's the problem. You think that auction houses are scarred in the mind of the public when they are not.

Half the people don't even remember diablo 3, and the other half don't even care anymore. You're blowing the event out of proprotion, when it was 1 small flop the majority hadn't even heard of to begin with..

He specifically mentioned the neutral people as well for this very reason and you're ignoring it and cherry picking his points deliberately. 

 

Whats hes getting at is that theres a silent majority of people who are actually aware and scarred by the Diablo incident BUT they just havent said anything or are neutral on the topic as they are scared to try an AH ever again.

 

If I could give you some advice it would be to work with people instead of directly against them, especially when its all opinion oriented like this subject.

 

EDITAlso btw Diablo 3 incident is by no means a "small matter" as the franchise is one of most acclaimed of all time next to the likes of Warcraft, Star craft, COD etc

Edited May 12, 2016 by ToxicTroublermaker

[ToxicTroublermaker]

1 hour ago, Ellthan said:

So, let me get this straight, all the media outlets, eveyone who speaks about this stuff, and everyone with a voice is a-ok with it.

But somehow the silent majority isn't?

Not many are a-ok with it. The media doesnt talk about it because its old news, its not new hence why its called new(s). We already know about it so theres no point in bringing it up over and over again unless its an anniversary or the current subject related to it or whatever.

 

To bring the 9/11 analogy back into play, we bring up on the anniversary and sometimes when we're talking national security and terrorism and such but its not really in the news much these days or talked about usually. Its just not mainstream media these days

[ToxicTroublermaker]

11 hours ago, Ellthan said:

The thing is nobody even talks about that anymore at all.

 

What you're saying here is that those without a voice agree with you somehow (with absolutely way to comfirm) makes a valid point, but those who disagree with you that have a voice don't count.

 

Don't you see the problem here?

Thats the same with you as well. You don't know who agrees and who doesn't. 

 

Also please cite where I said that your guy's votes dont count because I never said that