The Prime Vault is a bad idea (feel bad for new players)

[Plushy]

Just now, Henji said:

Can't deny this is becoming a problem, I was hoping that DE would have solved this issue with the primes going to the vault by now with a rework to the Void they've been talking about for so long.

Maybe the upcoming solar map will fix that for us. Maybe that why its been taking do long. 

[Cat__Nap]

I agree. Ended up having to scramble to buy the last few loki parts I wasn't having any luck with, and two of my friends that aren't as geared - one of them ended up having to buy plat and outright buy her set, and the other I bought parts for since he needed the same ones I did. They didn't have time to farm the void for him before he was vaulted, so that was their only option, and if they'd started playing even a few weeks later, they'd be screwed and never get loki since the prices jumped to crazy amounts as soon as the vaulting was announced, and now the prices are even crazier post-vaulting. Don't get me started on ember, who's not even one of the best of the vaulted primes yet goes for an insane amount.

If the prime vault is going to exist, it really needs to be unvaulted more often. As in, a frame gets unvaulted every month or two, or hell, do away with the vaulting system and make use of the Orokin Derelict like people have been saying to for ages. Only two missions drop prime parts there, and only in Rotation C. What about Rotations A and B, instead of just tacking more parts into the already-packed T3S loot table?

I like the prime system, and I don't mind grinding void or derelict for parts, but the vaulting system has to go. It makes no sense to make people wait for years to get the prime they want just because they weren't playing when it was out. And if someone really enjoys Rhino, for example, as a brand new player, I would imagine it would feel like somewhat of a waste to potato/forma normal Rhino while knowing there was a direct upgrade out there but unattainable until DE says "surprise!" and unvaults him for a limited time.

[bubbabenali]

The Question should be when does Odonata finaly get vaulted.

Every time I get a part in a T4 mission I feel worse than if I get an Forma BP.

[PoobahTheGrand]

8 hours ago, Alphafox said:

Your rant is not relevant to the thread at all..

You should do more than just skimming through before posting.

At least I skimmed, you clearly didn't read it at all to say my rant is not relevant to the thread at all...My post is completely relevant. It addresses the title, the OPs post and other posts relating to the thread while including examples from other game that could be used to prove my point. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by PoobahTheGrand

[Zeranov]

Still hoping for those void explosions and starchart-reworks to make the vault obsolete. I too think this vault is a terrible marketing strategy. For the new players as well as the designers who made the frames. (Since they are virtually discontinued.)

And if U19 isn't our lord and savior they should atleast reduce the time between the openings of the vault to lower the market prices of the parts. Hek... according to Warframe Market an Ember Prime set sells for around 1200p these days.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Zeranov
:plat:

[TheTundraTerror]

DE talks about how Vaulting "is to reduce saturation". That is nonsense when you actually look into how many drop tables weapon parts are spread across:

Look at it! Do you see?! Do you see?! The Lex Prime has each part within no less than 3 drop tables and the Burston is practically the same! Also, check out that sea of C's! DE, you know there are other letters in the alphabet, right?

[TheAceOfSkulls]

I see a lot of people talking about the Void and unused places in there, but I feel like we've all forgotten that there's a place outside of the void that we don't like to visit because going there feels like a waste of time compared to all the goodies we get in the void.

I understood back when keys were a little bit tougher to get, but now it feels like the whole game funnels you into there and it provides such better rewards (ducats/plat from parts you don't need, larger credit drops, argon, etc.) that there's not much reason to leave unless there's an alert or we need resources/keys.

I'm not saying RNG rewards that cause wartime flashback to Ivara, but what if we had a sort of quest system that involved going back into the Origin system that unlocked items from a random pool (kinda like Sorties only aimed at the early/midgame level). Maybe even have us pick between several different pools that our rewards are selected from for that day.

Or, and I mention this because I became obsessed with it, have something like the loot crates from Overwatch delivered for accomplishing daily tasks (Accomplish 4 of the following: Kill Tyl Regor, Scan 10 enemies, Play 5 missions on Jupiter, Play 3 Sabotage missions, Kill 100 Grineer).

Instead of locking these away, give players the ability to constantly be working towards something no matter where they were, rather than having one place that's almost entirely better to play in than the rest of the game until you need specific items.

[MagPrime]

I'm behind the idea that the Prime Vault is a bad idea, not so much the "but think of the children" angle.  The argument can stand on it's own merits without attempting to pull our pixelated heart strings.  

Yes, the Void drop tables were bad but, DE could have utilized the Derelict and Dark Sector drop tables as well as removing the artificial fluff that they added - single Fusion Cores, Orokin Cells and 5k credit caches - instead of claiming it was an unmanageable problem and then creating a new item for the player base to spend money on.

 

[Zeranov]

3 hours ago, TheTundraTerror said:

DE talks about how Vaulting "is to reduce saturation". That is nonsense when you actually look into how many drop tables weapon parts are spread across:

- snip -

Yeah... I think more people are noticing that by now. It's a thing I'm hating with passion since DE first introduced the vault blatantly lying to their playerbase. Also what Noamuth said with the "artificial fluff"... but I'm still having a bit of faith in U19 and that bourbon list. We will see.

2 hours ago, TheAceOfSkulls said:

I see a lot of people talking about the Void and unused places in there, but I feel like we've all forgotten that there's a place outside of the void that we don't like to visit because going there feels like a waste of time compared to all the goodies we get in the void.

- snip -

The starchart rework is supposed to "fix" that problem by cycling the nodes every week and the accompanying "Explosion of the Void™" will redirect the Void rewards to the nodes of the Origin system in some way IIRC. Statements of dozens of devstreams are not easy to get together.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Zeranov
Moar Noamuth. Less fluff.

[MakTheEater]

9 hours ago, Zeranov said:

The starchart rework is supposed to "fix" that problem by cycling the nodes every week and the accompanying "Explosion of the Void™" will redirect the Void rewards to the nodes of the Origin system in some way IIRC. Statements of dozens of devstreams are not easy to get together.

Yeah, let's just wait U30, when people will not play this game anymore.

[Zhoyzu]

On 5/20/2016 at 9:00 PM, alexmach1 said:

That's already happening since the introduction of uncommon/rare cores, orokin cells, and credit caches to the drop tables.

yes, but theyve always been there. The new primes and old primes havent been.

[Zebiko]

Has there ever been a warframe that came back from the vault?

I really like rhino, and the prime has better defense stats, which is great being a tank he his, plus he's faster. I was a little too late to get him before he was gone. How long do I have to wait?

 

[TrinityPrime]

1 hour ago, Warfoxzero said:

Has there ever been a warframe that came back from the vault?

I really like rhino, and the prime has better defense stats, which is great being a tank he his, plus he's faster. I was a little too late to get him before he was gone. How long do I have to wait?

 

Ya Frost Prime Access and void farming for his parts and associated weapon parts came back for like a month during Trinity Prime Access.  Some of us assumed they'd do a one month prime reaccess every new prime access but then there was nothing during saryn prime access.

[Col_Helghan]

On 5/20/2016 at 4:32 AM, Judgebanks said:

The Orokin Void is a bad idea. Low effort content design, where any other game would create new areas and new enemies in which to obtain new loot, DE simply stuffs everything into T3S.

 

On the other hand, the Orokin Void makes for an excellent allegory towards DE and their "Let them eat cake" attitude lately.

That´s DE for you, I´ve been around and they have CHANGED A LOT. Not for the better either. Expect it to get worse and expect to see everything new stuffed into T3 and T4 Sabs, Survs, Defs, also, C rotations, with abysmal drop chances.

 

Also, to the OP, spot on, and this attitude coming from DE is going to make LOTS of new players go away after few hours of gameplay, what´s left ? Veterans ? Even we get fed with the game over time, just wait and see how what you wrote will impact their total player population.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Zealotux

[Plushy]

4 minutes ago, Zealotux said:

That´s DE for you, I´ve been around and they have CHANGED A LOT. Not for the better either. Expect it to get worse and expect to see everything new stuffed into T3 and T4 Sabs, Survs, Defs, also, C rotations, with abysmal drop chances.

 

Also, to the OP, spot on, and this attitude coming from DE is going to make LOTS of new players go away after few hours of gameplay, what´s left ? Veterans ? Even we get fed with the game over time, just wait and see how what you wrote will impact their total player population.

Sounds Luke you're having a lot of fun and won't ever stop playing! 

Seriousness now, that's not the kind of comment that helps make the game better. Its so funny how people can go completely apeS#&$ over a few things. Its not like DE is trying to make the game worse for us just for the fun of it. 

[Liminal]

I have every prime (except the last ones) and I agree entirely. Putting deadlines on equipment only encourages people to grind them ASAP, which leads to unfun farming, exploits and burnout.

Knowing that "that thing is there, I'll get it someday when I feel like it" makes the game a lot more appealing in my opinion.

[Heidrek]

The drop tables are really screwed up; key for a key reward, orokin cells etc, you know the rest. It could be better, but RNGesus needs the tears and rage. so yes it's a problem the primes are meant to force the player to play the game before they get vaulted. DE ran out of material to get players to play.

[Gigarayzor]

It's not just the prime vault, arcane helmets, event exclusive mods, weapons, etc. Speaking from personal experience, it's nearly impossible persuading my friends to stick with a game when it seems like every third thing they come across in a build or wiki and want to work towards finding I have to tell them essentially "Well, maybe if you play regularly over the next two years it will be available again at the developer's whim?"

The pattern I've seen a few times, is I show them the game, they're having fun, have run through a few planets, get some new weapons and maybe 2nd frame and enough mods they have to make decisions on what to equip, maybe I've introduced them to the void missions so they have a piece or two of something powerful. That's usually when they start doing research on the internet and discover the dirty secret of how many goodies they will never get to play with, and I'm back to soloing this game.

I don't think everything needs to be available always, but it would be nice if there was some guarantee things would be available ever. You want event exclusive weapons and mods? Sure, but make them repeat on a regular annual schedule, so people know they'll have a chance coming up sometime. Then you can add an extra toy each time the event comes around for veterans.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Gigarayzor

[Col_Helghan]

5 hours ago, Plushy said:

Sounds Luke you're having a lot of fun and won't ever stop playing! 

Seriousness now, that's not the kind of comment that helps make the game better. Its so funny how people can go completely apeS#&$ over a few things. Its not like DE is trying to make the game worse for us just for the fun of it. 

You got me all wrong my friend. I enjoy this game very much, that doesn´t mean there isn´t something very wrong with it. I never went apechit on anything so you need to reread what I wrote. I couldn´t care less about Vaulting and Prime access for one reason only, DE is getting greedy and with the number of players spending real money outside of Prime Access, even small amounts, they have more than enough to cover everything. Consider games that cost 40 eu, 50 eu, 60 eu, you buy them, never have to spend a dime after that, and game is bug free(most of the time), polished and up and running without problems. Now look at WF with it´s F2P model and how much money DE is getting with all the extras in-game and Prime Accesses that cost a hefty price, some more or less like a brand new game. I wandered off topic for a second to reply to your comment.

Real issue lies in not many players wanting to state their opinion in fears of getting banned, DE isn´t exactly known for handling criticism very well, if handling it at all but banning everyone for saying anything. If that is the case, so be it.

 

Back on topic, what others have said, a better utilization of star chart, dark sectors, and derelict missions would be better for a change. I got countless people and friends into WF only to be offput later seeing something they liked, was not there anymore, and yes I am talking about Vaulted stuff. They would have to wait for a really long time for that item to come back or spend a fortune in plat to buy it off from someone. 

We can all agree that drop chances are messed up because of bad decision making on DE side, now this is not some slander, in case someone got trigger happy on ban hammer. Vaulted items COULD be permanently in the game and obtainable if only, I repeat, as others have stated, star chart, derelicts, dark sectors could be reworked and their drop rewards. Simple as that. Also, I am not the only one that agrees with the other poster, but items that are permanent and obtainable at any given time, should you choose to do to, is more appealing to everyone than having to grind senselessly while being on the clock, tick tock tick tock. Just kills all the fun we´re " supposed " to have.

[cecil04]

Vaulting and prime access are great ideas, I see nothing wrong with them. The only people who would benefit from non vaulting are people who were not going to spend a cent to access primed content in the first place.

If you want all the vaulted primed frames you only have to purchase prime access once.

You actually get a primed frame, icons and weapons for free with prime access, the actual thing you're paying $79.99 for is that 2625 platinum which is enough to get all the vaulted frames.  

Getting prime access is better than purchasing platinum on its own because 2100 platinum costs $99.99.

I really don't see why people are complaining if there were going to spend money on primed content if it was sold on the market place.

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, cecil04 said:

Vaulting and prime access are great ideas, I see nothing wrong with them. The only people who would benefit from non vaulting are people who were not going to spend a cent to access primed content in the first place.

If you want all the vaulted primed frames you only have to purchase prime access once.

You actually get a primed frame, icons and weapons for free with prime access, the actual thing you're paying $79.99 for is that 2625 platinum which is enough to get all the vaulted frames.  

Getting prime access is better than purchasing platinum on its own because 2100 platinum costs $99.99.

I really don't see why people are complaining if there were going to spend money on primed content if it was sold on the market place.

You Sir, shall be punished for bringing logic into a debate.  :D

[Liminal]

1 hour ago, cecil04 said:

Vaulting and prime access are great ideas, I see nothing wrong with them. The only people who would benefit from non vaulting are people who were not going to spend a cent to access primed content in the first place.

If you want all the vaulted primed frames you only have to purchase prime access once.

You actually get a primed frame, icons and weapons for free with prime access, the actual thing you're paying $79.99 for is that 2625 platinum which is enough to get all the vaulted frames.  

Getting prime access is better than purchasing platinum on its own because 2100 platinum costs $99.99.

I really don't see why people are complaining if there were going to spend money on primed content if it was sold on the market place.

Nothing you have said addresses the point that vaulting is a time lock and it makes a large part of the game simply vanish on an arbitrary date. Content we have room for in the game and that every newcomer would like to get someday, and making it available for a month in the future doesn't fix this.

In fact, I even thing all prime access sets should remain purchasable forever as well.

[cecil04]

5 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

Nothing you have said addresses the point that vaulting is a time lock and it makes a large part of the game simply vanish on an arbitrary date. Content we have room for in the game and that every newcomer would like to get someday, and making it available for a month in the future doesn't fix this.

In fact, I even thing all prime access sets should remain purchasable forever as well.

How does content vanish when it's vaulted?

Is there anything stopping someone from purchasing prime access and trading for frames/weapons with platinum?

When you say newcomers you mean the people that wont spend a dime, because I don't see a newcomer that wants a certain warframe or weapon not buying prime access/platinum to get it.

If I'm a free player why should I have access to everything in the game without contributing. 

I think sometimes people forget that this is a free to play game. I play a lot of f2p games and warframe is one of the most forgiving one when it comes to accessing content.

Have you ever played games like smite or hearthstone that hide content in chest rolls, pre-orders and special events to get that one skin or card back that no one will ever get access to ever again.

 

[Liminal]

3 minutes ago, cecil04 said:

How does content vanish when it's vaulted?

Can you farm Ember Prime or buy her Prime Access? Will you be able to farm or buy Loki Prime next month? The answer is no, because they are vaulted.
Vaulting removes content from the game for those who have not acquired it yet (be it by farming or buying).

4 minutes ago, cecil04 said:

trading for frames/weapons with platinum?

The game should not be balanced around player trading.

4 minutes ago, cecil04 said:

When you say newcomers you mean the people that wont spend a dime, because I don't see a newcomer that wants a certain warframe or weapon not buying prime access/platinum to get it.

Incorrect assumption. Someone who starts playing now may very well spend more money than I did (and oh boy did I spend money on WF).

5 minutes ago, cecil04 said:

Have you ever played games like smite or hearthstone that hide content in chest rolls, pre-orders and special events to get that one skin or card back that no one will ever get access to ever again.

This game is not Smite or Hearthstone. "Others do it too" doesn't make it right, nor is a valid defense for the practice.

[cecil04]

1 minute ago, The_Doc said:

Can you farm Ember Prime or buy her Prime Access? Will you be able to farm or buy Loki Prime next month? The answer is no, because they are vaulted.
Vaulting removes content from the game for those who have not acquired it yet (be it by farming or buying).

The game should not be balanced around player trading.

Incorrect assumption. Someone who starts playing now may very well spend more money than I did (and oh boy did I spend money on WF).

This game is not Smite or Hearthstone. "Others do it too" doesn't make it right, nor is a valid defense for the practice.

If you have the money than why not buy what you want and call it a day.

 

I give up.