Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[NessTV]

IMO Mag is going the right direction, but since at this time DE values more bug reports than balance issues feedback, we should focus on these.

 

For example, Opticor is stupid. Beam goes from the gun to the center of the bubble if you're aiming at it, no matter if you're inside or outside the bubble. Annoying as hell.

[Bullinator12]

DE pls just revert this update because there a lot of players who simply say "nope im out cya warframe" and thats an friendly way of telling that.

Well instead of nerfing guns or warframes. Couldn't you buff some frames / weapons ?
There are weapons which are labelled as mastery fooder straight away because they are too weak. Those weapons should get buffs IMO.

In simple words don't turn good stuff into bad stuff turn the bad stuff into good stuff

Also couldnt you focus on bigger problems like the loot system for example there are people out there who farm an blueprint for 2 or more hours. Of course warframe is an farm game but thats too insane. 

Besides that I saw one comment on youtube that explains this whole situation : "Warframe is a game you have to play for today, because tomorrow your favorite weapon or frame might be a victim of the nerf bomb" In my opinion this one fits perfectly ._.

Additionally  I want to say that my favorite game was closed because the devs have made an mistake and that mistake made a lot of players to leave the game and I dont want warframe to have the same problem so DE hear to your playersbase and dont be the guy who says eat it or die.

 

The end

[Hope42]

Well DE. Mag was my favorite Warframe when i startet. I loved it and it was usefull in any situation. Then you nerfed the pull. OK.. could live with it even if it made her a one trick wonder. Crush was useless as its damage and crowd control was worthless even with the stun mod. All my mag was for was controling Corpus then. She did a good job and in sortys she was ok but not even close to op as you couldnt kill the 1 million nullifiers and Bursas.

But it was ok having one Warframe that was good for one thing.

Now.... shes good at nothin. You can play her in low and med level where med she start to suck. Now mag is one more warframe that i never play cause theres no reason.

Beeing able to kill 1 highlevel mob is fun. You guys ever played a sorty ? There is no way that killing one mob can be effective with 39 others of the same level around it lol Na... simply no. You now completely killed the mag. Her Abis need a BIG boost in dmg to be useful over level 30 lol

[robbybe01234]

I'll start with this.  I like Mag and appreciate the direction you took her.  It seems as if you guys are going for a more involved play style with her full kit being utilized in encounters and her being able to fill multiple rolls. (barrier provider, crowd cc, small group burst damage)  After taking her out at level ranges 15/30/50, I notice a few problems with implementing this in combat. 

Issues:

• Energy pool is too low.  She is a spam casting frame now and she needs the pool to back her up.
• Cost of each ability is too high (especially greedy pull) This needs to be easily spamable at any time. 
• Some shots pass through bubble and damage Mag.
• Passive is ineffectual at keeping Mag alive (try gain energy (1-5) when applying magnetic proc)
• Magnetize casting time is too long.  In many scenarios Mag will die/almost die while tagging and enemy. 
• Magnetize base range is too low.
• Polarize base fixed damage value is too low.  The effectiveness of this seemed to drop off quickly at lvl 50. 
• Polarize expansion speed is too slow.  When death can happen in a couple seconds, I need all enemies to feel this a.s.a.p.
• Crush casting time is too long.
• Crush needs to guarantee a stun on all surrounding enemies or there is no point in using it.  It becomes an ult that will kill you in combat. 

Edited to expand on ability usage:  She seems to be a combo frame now.  I feel that no one of her abilities should be used alone.  Her cost, pool and speed should reflect this.  

Thanks for the work guys, and I look forward to running high end content in her Orbit outfit. 

-RB

Edited May 28, 2016 by robbybe01234

[Fionntan]

32 minutes ago, Viking3206 said:

Cool, one specific build with one specific weapon, incredibly versatile frame we have here folks, instead of just having one ability that can be modded for how about we *Gasps* make multiple abilities useful! I'm pretty sure most people don't have a problem with Magnetize, it's how useless her polarize and other 2 abilities are, mostly polarize, the ability is completely pointless as there is no scaling, Mag as a frame is inherently now much more useless than what she was before, make her be able to actually strip shields and armour off of high level enemies and then I'll be okay with it, at least, and I'm sure many other people would be okay with it too

Just decided test other weapons base on projectile hits, seems to work like a charm with Kohm/Dread/etc so is not limited to Lanka. Though as some stated it could be nerfed soon unless DE states is intended.

I do agree some her kit needs some serious polish.

A few points with me faffing on her new kit:

• The change % to static number in polarized, rendering it "meh" in terms of use. I'd say revert it to % and make it not do dmg per shield depleted.
• Magnetize needs to be toggle-able just for those "opses" picking wrong target or have it affect the surrounding area somehow.
• Crush is still meh just like Miasma, best used for quick CC but nothing worthwhile to use as far I tested.

Thats my 2 cents for now, thanks for the rework effort DE  

25 minutes ago, Konachibi said:

My opinion on the mag rework and what could be improved upon:

 

At the moment, Magnetize is a nice skill but it has a few flaws.  first of all, it only magnetizes the initial enemies inside it, and any enemies entering the bubble afterwards can run through it without a problem, only taking a portion of the damage the bubble has absorbed whilst it will still rip your bullets out of the sky and most likely preventing you hitting those enemies that are walking through it depending on trajectory vs. location.  As a nice synergy, why not make it so that enemies that are drawn into the bubble with Pull get affected by the Magnetize and pulled into the center like the initial enemies do.  It would mix her two skills together really nicely and make Pull have a bit more practicality other than using it to close distance between you and another enemy.

Secondly, it would be great to be able to end Magnetize's duration prematurely by pressing the button a second time, similar to other frame abilities such as Nyx's Absorb.  Having a Magnetize block a doorway that you need to get through can be extremely detrimental, because if you enter that bubble as an enemy fires something heavy, or another player shoots into it whilst you're in there, you can potentially kill yourself which seems a little bit annoying when you have to stand around for another 10 seconds waiting for it to dissappear in order to progress.

Next is augments.  With Mag's new passive, Greedy Pull's usage has taken a serious drop.  Why bother wasting mod space on something like that when you get a better effect merely by bullet-jumping, which requires no energy and can be spammed easily?  Perhaps if it were changed to something such as increasing it's cone of effect, for exmaple 90 degree cone by default, 120 degree with unranked augment all the way up to a full 360 degrees at max ranked Greedy Pull.  Couple this with allowing Pulled enemies to be affected by Magnetize and you have yourself a really nice augment and power synergy.  Stand in the middle of a Magnetize and use Pull, watch all the enemies around you get sucked into the bubble (instead of ragdolling all over the place), then jump out and fire away!

Fracturing Crush has also lost a lot of it's usage.  Polarize does a similar job to it now along with being a permanent decrease to armour compared to Fracturing Crushes temporary decrease, and Polarize costs a lot less energy and is just generally more usable.  Perhaps then the augment could be changed to increasing the amount of times it does additional damage, at the loss of either a percentage of it's damage, or prolonging it's casting time to account for the extra hits.  Alternatively it could give enemies affected by Crush a slow effect for a short duration, to take into account the fact that all their bones have just been twisted and broken, which would make Crush a really nice CC.

Other than those thoughts and ideas, I really like the rework (and the TennoGen skin!) and I'm happily back to playing Mag now that she's more practical and usable in missions outside of the Corpus. ^.^

I approve of this message +1 and one above my post.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Fionntan

[Vali]

I'd recommend the following balance changes:

-Pull is good and pretty much always was. Maybe make Greedy Pull attract shrapnel to give Mag additional armor.

-Make Magnetize absorb even projectile moving through it, not just into it.

-Increase the range of Polarize and the movement speed of the wave. Also add about 20% shield drain to explosion so that players can invest extremely heavily in power strength and range and possibly buffs from other Warframes to allow for Polarize to do massive damage in turn for extreme team composition, synergy and planning or at least let her be able to destroy the lighter Corpus units with Polarize while focusing on the heavies with Magnetize.

-Give Crush a faster casting speed or at least better synergy with other skills. Crush is still very much lackluster.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

6 minutes ago, Agentawesome said:

I'd recommend the following balance changes:

-Pull is good and pretty much always was. Maybe make Greedy Pull attract shrapnel to give Mag additional armor.

-Make Magnetize absorb even projectile moving through it, not just into it.

-Increase the range of Polarize and the movement speed of the wave. Also add about 20% shield drain to explosion so that players can invest extremely heavily in power strength and range and possibly buffs from other Warframes to allow for Polarize to do massive damage in turn for extreme team composition, synergy and planning or at least let her be able to destroy the lighter Corpus units with Polarize while focusing on the heavies with Magnetize.

-Give Crush a faster casting speed or at least better synergy with other skills. Crush is still very much lackluster.

1. Don't use GP, but okay.

2. Doesn't it already do that? If not, okay.

3. Honestly, I just think that it needs to revert back to a % damage value and cost 50 energy again. Then again, more duration to counteract a -duration build wouldn't hurt either, I guess.

4. Crush is fine as it is. End of story. If you need faster cast  speed, then use Natural Talent...that's what I tend to do anyway.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Fracturing crush is what saving polarize actually for high lvl grineers, 1 crush with augment and 2/3 polarize right after can permanently strip all the armor off of a lvl 100 arid heavy gunner, with a power strenght above 170.when the effect of the augment ends the test subjects stayed with red bar ( only health ). If you want to remove said enemy's armor with just polarize it'll take between 12-15 polarize casts depending on power strenght. But u gotta cast crush first and then the polarizations before the armor reduction bonus expires for the effect to be permanent. but with 130'ish duration u should have 10 secs give or take it's doable for packed enemies, only problem is when they're spread some might get caught by crush but the ones farther may get hit by the polarize wave after ( even 1 sec after ) the damage reduction from fracturing crush ends, so they wont stay with a nice red bar ....that augment is so far the only reason i haven't dumped mag in the trash, because honestly after all that babbling about synergy, if i have to only resort to now using magnetize cus the other abilities are meh well. i dont need something good vs lvl's 50, i want something viable for high lvl's at least those u find in sortie 3....

Just my humble 2 cent after some experiments

The tests were done with energy syphon aura, no CP involved

Edited May 28, 2016 by arm4geddon-117
update

[DenTomato]

I thought it would be a buff to mag... but now she is more useless then nezha... LEAVE MAG ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sziklamester]

As I said in the volt I can say mag changes wasn't the best and they nerfed her under the ground.

 

Revert the changes pls until not looked at to the enemy scaling and damage scaling. This just means you guys need to work 3-5 times more to balance something because you balancing the frames to the broken system and this just ruin peoples playstyle.

Then again coming a balance and again will be underpowered.

[Vali]

24 minutes ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

 

2. Doesn't it already do that? If not, okay.

 

Bullets which move in from one side and out the other aren't attracted, might be a bug, might just be a bad feature.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Agentawesome

[45neo]

16 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Again, that's not it.

If her prime nuke can't even kill level 12 outright ... who would call that a DPS frame?

Imagine all the other DPS frames having the same problem.

Then, what's the point of gearing out even???

Quote

 

Higher level enemies = more shields and more armor = more damage

[matto]

Mag is no longer the selfish Mag we used to know, she turned into being more an utility frame than a nuker. And it's perfectly fine in my opinion.

I did the 3 corpus sorties and did great, still making more damage and kills than my team mates (without even using guns or melee that much). I am no longer making 90% of the kills though, which is what she needed. No longer a Corpus queen but a real pain in the a** for the factions.

Her 2 is (again) her best spot with the Magnetize ability. She can keep everyone safe when defending by locking an entire area if you place the bubbles correctly. Her 3 (the new Shield Polarize) makes a great job at ripping armor and shields appart so you can go melee or guns (just need a better scaling). She is less boring to play.

Seriously I really like the new concept. She can be used in many situations now and feels more complete than ever. Thank you.

Edited May 28, 2016 by matto

[TheGentlePrince]

Honestly, I like the idea of Mag's rework, but feel the execution was a bit lacking. Pull is a great first ability. Magnetize seems pretty good as well. 

Polarize could probably use some work. As it is now, it's not very useful. Flat damage numbers don't really work. I'd suggest changing the shield/armour drain to a percentage again, and scrap the damage from it. Make Polarize purely a debuff. It should, at least, fully replenish shields of allies. I'd also like to see it strip shields and armour completely, at least within a couple of casts. Half a dozen casts with 200% power strength on a level 100 enemy is too many. It should also work with Corrosive Projection. As it is now, Polarize doesn't really seem like an alternative to running 100% Corrosive Projection coverage.

I don't like Crush either. As it is now, Crush is a ~5 second CC ability with a 2.7 second stationary cast animation. I'll just use Pull 3 times instead for less energy, and less time. 

[DxAdder]

Polarise no longer scales which is a terrible idea, this needs to be addressed.

 

[Myscho]

Yep, Polarize definitely need to % scale, because even with 250% Strenght im barely scratch lvl 100 Corpus tech

[_Je_Suis_Bruxelles_]

18 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

AMAZING !! nothing else to say.

screw the old walking-boring-spam2-nuke.

i much prefer and i love the new smart mag.

 

cheers to all :)

Care to elaborate the smart part ? cause I tried all combination that came to mind and I see no utility in her other than Bullet Attractor,witch was fine yesterday too...what's smart about the new Mag?

Why should I still pick Mag instead of Ash or Ember?

 

[Versa]

The funny thing is that people are saying mag is better, smarter, and less of a spam 2 frame than before and, to some extent, ALL of these are wrong. Mags an entirely different class of character now and its not for the better. Her 1 and 4 have no significant benefits to old mag. Her current 2 is STILL her main source of damage but is now buggy, focused to immobile points that dont deal well with how warframe plays, and very much weapon type reliant. Her 3 is worth nothing past lvl 80 due to how its all flat numbers and no scaling. Mentioning scaling, NONE of mags abilities scale now making her strictly less effective than before when she at least maintained a use with one faction. Her use was divided among 2 of the THREE factions so she still isnt fully versatile and the lack of ANY scaling along with poor base damage and no armor ignore make her infinitely less effective against both the factions she was reworked for than compared to her original effectiveness in her one focused faction domain. What she is left with is still spamming her 2 as her only significant source if ANY damage but now its a non scaling buff that focuses on a particular target and the couple around it among the HUNDREDS in this games missions.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Kurayami_No_Yenshi

[sellacctv]

Incase you guys not yet know, her 2 now can use to suicide, press 2 and stand in the middle, shot then enjoy. Please fix this DE. 

[Xyhon]

Really, DE, You should be proud. Instead of giving us rework with some attractive skill set, you decided to ruin one thing Mag was good at, and not deliver anything at all in return. This toon scales so BAD now, that taking her to sortie is like masochistic dream come true. When you buff the Ash (Bladestorm + bleed dmg dur), you take Polarize, and make it utter bsh. Let me give You some advice:

Pull is fine, AoE, CC tool, doesn't need to do much in terms of damage (unless you want to use it to spawn globes, then - boohoo, bad for you - 100lvl Grin/Corp/whatever, they don't care).

Magnetise - well now, how about you make it into CC AoE skill, instead of "root one guy and pray the rest doesnt kill you" skill? Also, ability to kill yourself - kinda lame, considering we are the Magneto of this game. Or even, deploy as a ground trap - still better than current state.

Polarize - here is the REAL deal. Flat damage that doesn't scale with ANYTHING makes this skill, well, I don't know - useless? 100 lvl Corpus don't sweat it. Grin' and Infests - they don't care. Make it useful, by adding % damage back, and armor reduction which is not a flat number (even stack-able for recasts). Also, you can always opt for CC in it. Else, you can't use it for sorties, raids, anything higher tier.

Crush - well there, this is really the weakest ult in this game. Not even Volts slow mo is going to top it on it's way for a crown. Volt's Ult is at least ultimate CC tool giving it's recent change... First things first: if you are going to do slow, limited range, animation stuck, casted spell, then give something in return: damage, that SCALES, or, magnetic shield making it IMPOSSIBLE to shoot Mag down? Anything else than this hideous, slow casting, low damage skill, with high risk of dying by lone bullet that skips the grip animation because of it's low range.

BTW: how is buffing Ash and nerfing other frames considered "good job" by your terms?

 

 

[sellacctv]

47 minutes ago, sellacctv said:

Incase you guys not yet know, her 2 now can use to suicide, press 2 and stand in the middle, shot then enjoy. Please fix this DE. 

Just test again, when you stand in the middle, all die, lol, buff to Rhino Iron skin? BUG *** Use Rhino, Mag help with magnetise, stand in middle, buff ur iron skin, shot in 3 sec, you will get tons of health. WC. 

[PeterScarlet]

BUG REPORT:

Magnetize: When cast on enemies, they disappearing quickly after death instead of being held in place. This is causing the ability to stop working after the body is gone. Other enemies in the area walk through and shoot through the lasting bubble as if it isn't there. After this bubble explodes as it is suppose to but does no damage.

Heavy enemies can shoot you from inside of the effected area.

 

Polarize: Shields on Corpus no longer explode if they are beyond 5 meters.

The Pulse also stops effecting after 15-20 meters.

Some corpus do not even lose their shields they just take damage to health while shields remain at full.

 

Crush: Enemies that don't die from the ability are not staggered or stunned and automatically go back to normal to attack.

 

[Big_Gunz]

I'll miss shield polarize giving myself, other players, objective, rescue target, and extractors back their sheild.

When life support on survival was gone, you can keep giving people shields as you run to the exit.

 

Well all that healing team skill is gone.

A nerf on Shield Polarize damage to a 1/4 would be better imo.

Cause I can save lives, now mag is just debuffer that is worse than CP aura (because the target has to be in range).

 

The Pull SFX sounds like a fart than the original Pull SFX.

[Tenedranox]

So about Mag:

She became a bit...akward, imo she needs some tweaks. Her most defining benefit was here scaling, no matter how much shields the enemies had, she demolished them. And this imo is the biggest and probaly the only problem this rework has, the lack of scaling. But lets move from ability to ability:

Pull:

Well its still pull, nothing changed much and its still pretty ok. The only issue i see is the synergie with magnetize, because u could rather use crush for 33% more used energy and deal more damage to all targets, instead of this singletarget damage boost. It would be much better and more "efficient" if more enemies would be affected by the bonus damage. How about all enemies which are in direct contact with the magnetized enemy? And every enemy which is on contact with an enemy which is in contact with the magnetized enemy and so on, because they also become slightly magnetized?

Magnetize:

Truly a pretty good ability! Its a ok cc tool and a great shield, also the damage is does can be quite good. The only issue is, when the enemy gets killed during the animation, nothing happens and ur energy is gone....

Polarize:

So the scaling is completly gone...the greatest part of this ability has been removed, which is pretty sad. I m not crying because mag cant clear a room full of corpus anymore, but the fact that her scaling is gone makes me a bit upset. But nothing to worry about it still can be adjusted. The coolest feature polarize now has are these little shrapnels and imo this is the point where u can adjust her scalability. Dont let the ability by it self do the percentage damage, but these shrapnels should. And if its only 1% of max shields/life per second while in magnetize, even this would be much much better and would solve or at least help her scalability problem.

Furthermore the armor debuff could also use some percentages, how about a flat amount plus a percentage of max armor?

Crush:

Ye its still crush all good all fine. For her ultimate ability its a bit lame now imo, so some more synergie would be nice. Something like bonus shrapnels if enemies get killed by crush or smth like this.

 

The new introduced shrapnels are imo a pretty awesome and interesting addition and it should be more investigated into this direction. Also a bit more synergie between shrapnels and pull/crush would be nice, but hey u cant have everything, the first thing to adjust is her scalablity!

[-CM-Machete]

10 hours ago, RiouHotaru said:

Not really?  The armor penalty is permanent and stacks with itself.  Magnetize is now infinitely superior to Bullet Attractor, and now synergizes with Polarize.

This is exactly like Saryn's rework.  Saryn went from one-trick pony to one of the best frames in the game, Mag is now useful across a much wider variety of content.

No, with your first line you just proved you aren't even aware of what you say. They straight out made polarize unreliable as a nerfing tool, they didn't even bothered by updating its augment too, as opposite to Saryn, because you can do more damage with Miasma now than before, they just made it unable to be used for meta-runs by slowing it down, and still, it is matter of discussion, because if you don't have squad bidding for you, Saryn is outclassed by almost anything, but even then, they didn't DESTROY one of her abilties. . Polarize costs more, does less, and it does it slower. And nobody cares about Crush, its only decent use is for meta in Draco.

And no, the fact of it being permanent  doesn't make it good by itself, if THE ACTUAL AMOUNT it strips off is barely reflected on the battlefield, we get back to the basics: at lower levels it is unnecessary, at higher levels it is insignificant. And I don't care if Magnetize is good now, because they just switched 3 to 2, but in the process made one of them BAD. I still don't get why people argues in favor of it, neither why does Magnetize being good is any relevant for the fact that Polarize sucks, again, they didn't just  nerf it (which it deserved), they destroyed it in exchange for a marginal and insignificant degree of synergy.