Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[RealPandemonium]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

I fall into the 2nd category. I'm well aware that the rework has its wonder, but I don't find it fun vs previous build. This is a matter of preference. My old Mag was an "on-the-go" and the new Mag is "grounded". I will be using Mag less often now because she no longer fit my gameplay.  

The old Mag was only "on the go" because it could instantly kill everything on the map without fail.  In many cases this was done while cowering in a safe spot for total safety.  Nothing else has changed in this regard, except that BA is actually really strong now instead of "it's not worth slotting a duration mod."  Mag's gameplay is similar to before the changes in every other way.  

Edited June 17, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

It is obvious that Mags rework was intended to Make the game easier for new players to run missions. Think about it.

Pull, you get extra energy orbs to drop if you kill the target with pull. Now ask yourself, who would this be useful for? New players playing low level missions. Pull barely does any damage at all. New players struggle with energy and killing targets with their MK-1 weapons right? Why not pull the enemy a few times get a kill and some extra energy right? How would this benefit experienced players who play at higher levels? Other than CC, you won't be getting energy from pulling anything, plus trinity is way better at that. 

Let's talk magnetize. Great at keeping a target from shooting at you, but enemies can walk right out of the bubble. Not only this, but the blast damage does not go through objects. What kind of logic is that? An explosion that does not go through objects? Ok. So let's give them something but not the full package that way Magnetize cannot be a kill everything skill.

Polarize. Flat damage..... No scaling= Non endgame. Who would polarize benefit? New gamers, Polarize is a great skill why? Because it strips off shield and armor BUT, on low level enemies. I tested in a T4 Survival 60 minutes no Corrosive Projections and Polarize fell off quick. I found myself doing more recasting of polarize than actually shooting. I tested in simulacrum against a Heavy Gunner, took about 9 casts of polarize to strip off the Armor. 

Last but not least. Mag is a starter frame. She is no longer an endgame frame. This was DE's intention. Why? I do not know but a very ***** one. RIP Mag. Sometimes you can't understand why someone had to go. We can only hope she is resting easy now. You will be missed Maggy, you will be missed. 

Edited June 17, 2016 by (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

8 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

The old Mag was only "on the go" because it could instantly kill everything on the map without fail.  In many cases this was done while cowering in a safe spot for total safety.  Nothing else has changed in this regard, except that BA is actually really strong now instead of "it's not worth slotting a duration mod."  Mag's gameplay is similar to before the changes in every other way.  

Yes, this is somewhat true. I guess what I really wanted to express was that with Shield Transference aug mods, I was able to move more freely and polarize to get an abundant of my overshield back, all the while finishing enemies that are left over with my weapons. Now, it's a cast BA here, cast BA there, Pola... oh no, I'm bleeding out because it's not returning shield back fast enough. Even if I survive, the area under BA is now pretty null. Any enemies right outside of it are impossible to kill with guns. Previously, I can move about and everywhere is pretty much safe. Now, it feels like my only safe haven is inside BA bubble.

As I mention, it's not that I think the rework is bad. It no longer fit my style.

[tnccs215]

For everyone who no,longuer likes playing with her:

We are sorry about that. However, the fact that she no longer suits your playstyle is, like it, or not, irrelevant.

You cannot please everyone. And when a change of playstyle is so intense, there are bound to be people that simply no longer enjoy it. Of course, many others that used not to like it now do, such as me.

As I said, it's a shame you no longer like to play her. However, there are many other frames, and I am quite sure some will fit your playstyle. With that in mind, you not liking Mag is not exactly feedback, it is personal taste.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

3 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

For everyone who no,longuer likes playing with her:

We are sorry about that. However, the fact that she no longer suits your playstyle is, like it, or not, irrelevant.

You cannot please everyone. And when a change of playstyle is so intense, there are bound to be people that simply no longer enjoy it. Of course, many others that used not to like it now do, such as me.

As I said, it's a shame you no longer like to play her. However, there are many other frames, and I am quite sure some will fit your playstyle. With that in mind, you not liking Mag is not exactly feedback, it is personal taste.

Can you throw some examples in there? Maybe tell us why you use her now or like her better than the previous mag?

[RealPandemonium]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

Yes, this is somewhat true. I guess what I really wanted to express was that with Shield Transference aug mods, I was able to move more freely and polarize to get an abundant of my overshield back, all the while finishing enemies that are left over with my weapons. Now, it's a cast BA here, cast BA there, Pola... oh no, I'm bleeding out because it's not returning shield back fast enough. Even if I survive, the area under BA is now pretty null. Any enemies right outside of it are impossible to kill with guns. Previously, I can move about and everywhere is pretty much safe. Now, it feels like my only safe haven is inside BA bubble.

As I mention, it's not that I think the rework is bad. It no longer fit my style.

Perhaps make a thread proposing to slightly buff the augment so that its performance is closer to pre-rework performance?

[MissTennoSWarframeMaid]

All i want to say, is that i feel mag a little... useless. and worthless.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

2 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

For everyone who no,longuer likes playing with her:

We are sorry about that. However, the fact that she no longer suits your playstyle is, like it, or not, irrelevant.

You cannot please everyone. And when a change of playstyle is so intense, there are bound to be people that simply no longer enjoy it. Of course, many others that used not to like it now do, such as me.

As I said, it's a shame you no longer like to play her. However, there are many other frames, and I am quite sure some will fit your playstyle. With that in mind, you not liking Mag is not exactly feedback, it is personal taste.

We?

The only reason I came back to play was Mag was Mag. Haven't logged back in since the change, no point now.

[tnccs215]

3 hours ago, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

Can you throw some examples in there? Maybe tell us why you use her now or like her better than the previous mag?

Well, first of all, she no longuer is a press 2 to cheese. It was boring, it was bland, it was irritating it was bad. Second, she now offers peculiar tactical capabilities that not many frames have. Yes, her kit is centered around magnetize-- and yet that is not bad. I use her whole kit, for different purposes, and many for Magnetize support. Magnetize allows for localized control, offering simultaneously protection and making enemy fire turn on their own-- if used with a bit of brains. Polarize is much better than most think, specially when coupled with fracturing crush-- which personally I think should become part of the base ability--, and pull is still pull. That is, a very good 1.

She offers great scaling, and is a really good debuffer. But she isn't a mindless frame, and requires some thought.

I know she is far from perfect. Magnetize needs some way to explode prematurely, her energy pool is ridiculously small for what she needs. But she is far from bad, far from useless. Hell, I've been topping the number of kills with her. 

You actually have to use her now, and are rewarded accordingly. She is fun to be, and she is rewarding without being cheesy.

So yes, I like her, and I think she is a better frame now. Maybe not as "efficient", but no frame should have the power she used to have.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

9 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Well, first of all, she no longuer is a press 2 to cheese. It was boring, it was bland, it was irritating it was bad. Second, she now offers peculiar tactical capabilities that not many frames have. Yes, her kit is centered around magnetize-- and yet that is not bad. I use her whole kit, for different purposes, and many for Magnetize support. Magnetize allows for localized control, offering simultaneously protection and making enemy fire turn on their own-- if used with a bit of brains. Polarize is much better than most think, specially when coupled with fracturing crush-- which personally I think should become part of the base ability--, and pull is still pull. That is, a very good 1.

She offers great scaling, and is a really good debuffer. But she isn't a mindless frame, and requires some thought.

I know she is far from perfect. Magnetize needs some way to explode prematurely, her energy pool is ridiculously small for what she needs. But she is far from bad, far from useless. Hell, I've been topping the number of kills with her. 

You actually have to use her now, and are rewarded accordingly. She is fun to be, and she is rewarding without being cheesy.

So yes, I like her, and I think she is a better frame now. Maybe not as "efficient", but no frame should have the power she used to have.

As it stands, the idea behind her package is good. Does it work? Somewhat. She is not endgame and she hardly fits any game type. Defense? Survival free for all? Interception? Mobile defense? And I am talking high level missions. She does not work. Her setup is mainly for camping with no real way to stay alive. She needs more energy, Polarize needs work. She needs more armor if they do not fix Polarize. Magnetize needs to lock onto a target and follow it, the explosion needs to go through objects. They did a rework on her but there is no real way to use her in high level missions. Fracturing crush is a good cc but requires too much energy. She is just all over the place. There is no real use for her in a high level mission. The only thing she seems good for is just low level mission running around having fun. Oh she may work in exterminate because you are not getting bombarded with hordes of enemies. How does she benefit in a team based gameplay? What reason would anyone have to request a mag in their squad?

Edited June 17, 2016 by (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt

[Lancars]

6 hours ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

I think there should be 2 separate feedback here.

1. Those that don't like the rework because they think it is a "nerf"
2. Those that just don't like the rework because the new gameplay is not fun

I fall into the 2nd category. I'm well aware that the rework has its wonder, but I don't find it fun vs previous build. This is a matter of preference. My old Mag was an "on-the-go" and the new Mag is "grounded". I will be using Mag less often now because she no longer fit my gameplay.  

I'm 2. She is just to clunky for the fast gameplay.

[Oblitum]

2 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

 

She offers great scaling, and is a really good debuffer. But she isn't a mindless frame, and requires some thought.

I know she is far from perfect. Magnetize needs some way to explode prematurely, her energy pool is ridiculously small for what she needs. But she is far from bad, far from useless. Hell, I've been topping the number of kills with her. 

You actually have to use her now, and are rewarded accordingly. She is fun to be, and she is rewarding without being cheesy.

 

in order here, how doe she scale? just to point out, the nerf to her 2 was that they removed scaling, and made it flat damage, aka no way to scale into later game.

topping kills? are you playing with a good Saryn in group? or Ash, or Ember, or maybe even a Volt? i have my doubts, unless you're talking solo play, i could see her topping the kill charts in solo play

i'll admit her 2 was a bit cheesy in that it scaled up the stronger the enemy got, but making her a low misson only frame does not make her rewarding

side note, Longer, at least in english, if you are of french origin i can see how that mistake was made

[MagPrime]

53 minutes ago, Oblitum said:

in order here, how doe she scale? just to point out, the nerf to her 2 was that they removed scaling, and made it flat damage, aka no way to scale into later game.

topping kills? are you playing with a good Saryn in group? or Ash, or Ember, or maybe even a Volt? i have my doubts, unless you're talking solo play, i could see her topping the kill charts in solo play

i'll admit her 2 was a bit cheesy in that it scaled up the stronger the enemy got, but making her a low misson only frame does not make her rewarding

side note, Longer, at least in english, if you are of french origin i can see how that mistake was made

 

On 6/9/2016 at 7:53 AM, Noamuth said:

Cupid; 

 

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My build;

 

 

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Played with an Excal who had just Forma'd their weapons. 

[--.Ravakahr.nVbs.--]

Been hearing a lot of talk about mag lately how bad it is. I wasn't really to worried. Today I decided to try out sortie 1 - with corpus augmented shields. Holy pie. It was bad. 

Step 1: "Shield Polarize"

Step 2: I think its broken, "Recast" 

Step 3: stare at enemies with full shield. X_X

Step 4: Drop energy Pod, Recast 3rd time enemies SHIELD drop 1/3 (with 284% strength). Meanwhile enemy bursa beside me remains 100% (yes 99.99% probably) 

Step 5: Tries "crush" lifts enemies throws them around, shield barely moved.

Step 6: Think Mag of being a sucky/rare sitational warframe for sortie. 

Opinion: Mag sucks. Bring back old "Shield Polarize" 

Thanks for reading. 

[--.Ravakahr.nVbs.--]

I do wonder when Devs test new abilities. Do they even test it in sortie? Or just against mission/t2-t4 (wave1) :P style of enemies when balancing?

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

1 hour ago, Oblitum said:

in order here, how doe she scale?

Her bullet attractor. The higher the enemy lvl, the more damage they deal = shooting themselves inside the bubble.

[MagPrime]

Right, leaving now.

[(PSN)KinslayersDawn]

The issue that some people seem to be wilfully ignoring is that if a frame's abilities to remove armor or shielding are based on base damage,  and not percentage,  then they don't scale.  They can't.  Whatever else the frame can do,  that ability does not scale. 

Personally,  I feel that every frame should have something based of percentages,  because there are still too many things that don't scale.  That's just a side opinion though. 

TL;DR say what you want about Mag aso a whole,  Polarize does not scale.

[tnccs215]

2 hours ago, (PS4)KinslayersDawn said:

Personally,  I feel that every frame should have something based of percentages,  because there are still too many things that don't scale.

Agreed.

That's why we have magnetize.

No one's saying Polarize scales. All we are saying is that it doesn't matter anymore that much. Do you want something to scale, or do you want polarize to scale? cause those are 2 differnt things.

[motorfirebox]

12 hours ago, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

Not only this, but the blast damage does not go through objects. What kind of logic is that? An explosion that does not go through objects? 

I don't think that's correct. I've never run into issues with enemies surviving the explosion, regardless of what might be between them and the bubble.

 

12 hours ago, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

She is no longer an endgame frame.

That is definitely incorrect. Completely, completely wrong. I'm using Mag for sorties every day, and I'm top damage and kills pretty much every run. I used her for the Gift of the Lotus endurance run today. Result:

[motorfirebox]

5 hours ago, Oblitum said:

topping kills? are you playing with a good Saryn in group? or Ash, or Ember, or maybe even a Volt? i have my doubts, unless you're talking solo play, i could see her topping the kill charts in solo play

My Magnetize bubbles do 100k per tick—not the explosion when the bubble ends, the individual ticks when some poor sap walks into the bubble—on unarmored targets. On armored targets, sometimes it gets as low as 5k per tick. Yes, I regularly beat the entire pants off of Embers, Ashes, Saryns, and whatever other frame you'd like to pit Mag against. The only runs where Mag doesn't completely flatten everybody else are Exterminate runs, because you don't have huge groups of enemies wandering directly into your well-placed bubbles all the time.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

13 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

... enemies wandering directly into your well-placed bubbles all the time.

I'm going to seriously regret posting this. A "well-placed" bubble? I can position a "well-placed" Excalibur swinging his EB right behind a doorway or choke point. And this is the main reason I don't enjoy playing Excal; therefore, it's the same reason I'm not enjoying the new Mag. Too "campy" (My opinion; please don't hurt me).  

[motorfirebox]

1 hour ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

I'm going to seriously regret posting this. A "well-placed" bubble? I can position a "well-placed" Excalibur swinging his EB right behind a doorway or choke point. And this is the main reason I don't enjoy playing Excal; therefore, it's the same reason I'm not enjoying the new Mag. Too "campy" (My opinion; please don't hurt me).  

Mag definitely shines in situations where the enemies are coming to you. She camps very well, but personally I tend to stay fairly mobile because on most maps, there's more than one spawn/choke point to watch. Plus there are teammates to revive, etc, and setting up a bubble in a useful position when you've got a long cast animation on a moving target can be tricky. And you've got to constantly reposition yourself near the bubble; hop inside it to take cover, step out to pop a nullifier, and so on. Not nearly as simple as (but much effective than) spamming EB through a wall.

Edited June 18, 2016 by motorfirebox

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

2 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Mag definitely shines in situations where the enemies are coming to you. She camps very well, but personally I tend to stay fairly mobile because on most maps, there's more than one spawn/choke point to watch. Plus there are teammates to revive, etc, and setting up a bubble in a useful position when you've got a long cast animation on a moving target can be tricky. And you've got to constantly reposition yourself near the bubble; hop inside it to take cover, step out to pop a nullifier, and so on. Not nearly as simple as (but much effective than) spamming EB through a wall.

Agree. I am glad that you and many others like the rework, but there are probably the same amount that do not. For me it's a matter of preferences. I wanted to add my feedback, so DE can see and be considerate to the different ways people like to play. Hopefully, they will keep various playstyles in mind for future designs/reworks.  

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

On 17.6.2016 at 7:34 PM, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

It is obvious that Mags rework was intended to Make the game easier for new players to run missions. Think about it.

Pull, you get extra energy orbs to drop if you kill the target with pull. Now ask yourself, who would this be useful for? New players playing low level missions. Pull barely does any damage at all. New players struggle with energy and killing targets with their MK-1 weapons right? Why not pull the enemy a few times get a kill and some extra energy right? How would this benefit experienced players who play at higher levels? Other than CC, you won't be getting energy from pulling anything, plus trinity is way better at that. 

Let's talk magnetize. Great at keeping a target from shooting at you, but enemies can walk right out of the bubble. Not only this, but the blast damage does not go through objects. What kind of logic is that? An explosion that does not go through objects? Ok. So let's give them something but not the full package that way Magnetize cannot be a kill everything skill.

Polarize. Flat damage..... No scaling= Non endgame. Who would polarize benefit? New gamers, Polarize is a great skill why? Because it strips off shield and armor BUT, on low level enemies. I tested in a T4 Survival 60 minutes no Corrosive Projections and Polarize fell off quick. I found myself doing more recasting of polarize than actually shooting. I tested in simulacrum against a Heavy Gunner, took about 9 casts of polarize to strip off the Armor. 

Last but not least. Mag is a starter frame. She is no longer an endgame frame. This was DE's intention. Why? I do not know but a very ***** one. RIP Mag. Sometimes you can't understand why someone had to go. We can only hope she is resting easy now. You will be missed Maggy, you will be missed. 

Beginner Frame? No longer Endgame? Did you even try playing her before you wrote this? 

Pull is fast, usefull CC and has Synergy with BA, which multiplies ANY damage source now, and crush, which got a pretty strong armor Killer addet to its augument, next to pola, which enables kinda static damage throughout endless scaling, ideal group Setup or not.

 

Makes sense for a constantly used, static (multiplied) damage source to dropp additional energy for a Caster Frame doesn't it?

BA scales off the multiplied damage of friendly AND endless scaling hostile damage without known limitations... is this in any way weaker then a straight nuke? Especially as it kills twice, as the enemys kill themselves and as it explodes on incomming targets.

The whole thing indeed works on a more accessable build, what just means that you don't have to sacrifice your whole Kit to be usefull in any way.

All DE did was killing her Press 3 to win playstyle. She was dead for a long time and finally found her way back to the living...

 

Edited June 19, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108