Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Misgenesis]

Magnetize really needs at least punch through on it. Ive had ragdolled enemies cover other ragdolled enemies from the explosion which is just...how.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

On 6/17/2016 at 7:27 PM, Lancars said:

I'm 2. She is just to clunky for the fast gameplay.

Same here. Changing her design this late in this extended-beta is like changing the original '67 Mustang into the '71 version. I'm sure folks who like new will enjoy the '71 ride, but people don't remember it like the '67. It's because I remembered how Mag played is why I returned to play her, an AoE fast caster.

She's a fast caster frame because she's not a survival frame. If she doesn't cast fast and cheap she's dead, low health; low armor (plus the bleed cheese makes shields like, "why do this even exist???", as that's her only defense).

[RealPandemonium]

31 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Same here. Changing her design this late in this extended-beta is like changing the original '67 Mustang into the '71 version. I'm sure folks who like new will enjoy the '71 ride, but people don't remember it like the '67. It's because I remembered how Mag played is why I returned to play her, an AoE fast caster.

She's a fast caster frame because she's not a survival frame. If she doesn't cast fast and cheap she's dead, low health; low armor (plus the bleed cheese makes shields like, "why do this even exist???", as that's her only defense).

I'm still not seeing a response from any of the people making this claim of "no longer as mobile/on-the-go" of exactly why that is.  What changed besides BA being massively buffed and SP losing the "I kill everything on the map instantly when fighting one faction" factor?  Gameplay is otherwise functionally similar.  

If the changes to SP are the only motivator, then I could say that SP rewarded sitting in a safe spot with a drinking bird far more than it did "fast casting."  Her cast animations haven't even changed!

Edited June 19, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

On 6/17/2016 at 9:33 PM, Noamuth said:

11 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Mag definitely shines in situations where the enemies are coming to you.

 

More cheese. Didn't DE understand what all those bubbles could do? Then when it wrecks game play (like Shield Polarize and Greedy Pull did) nerf Mag again?

This is falling into the problem Blizzard has with balancing both PvE and PvP in one game. The FoTM system of class design. Like in WotLK with Ret Paladins being so OP for like a year, then nerf them into the ground in the next expansion.

http://www.zenofdesign.com/pattern-breaking/

Quote

 

By way of explanation, it bears pointing out that most MMOs, rather inadvertently, end up shrinking their own content down in some way. Players are incredibly efficient at finding the fastest way to advance, and designers sometimes accidentally make design and balance decisions that help this along. Some ways that designers end up shrinking their own content:

• Bonuses: If your paladin has more spells that do more damage against undead, what do you think he’s going to kill a lot of?
• Special Attacks and Penalties: Gee, that monster gives almost the same rewards as this monster, but there’s a chance it might poison me. Guess what I’m gonna fight?
• Location. I don’t want to go to the middle of nowhere, and then have to run all the way back to town to train when I level. Might as well stay close to home.
• PVP Considerations: If I go over there and grind, I’m a gonna risk getting ganked, just as grinding has put me in a hypnotic haze. Better stay over here.

Many games have screwed this up, in small and subtle ways.

 

Which is what happened here. They know Shield Polarize wiped Corpus beyond belief. Now -- 3 years later -- correcting it, but long after people gotten used to Mag playing that way. DE is trying to fix a problem in the design for A frame, but players just switch to another frame to do the same thing (that min-maxing) and even defeats the change.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

I'm still not seeing a response from any of the people making this claim of "no longer as mobile/on-the-go" of exactly why that is.  What changed besides BA being massively buffed and SP losing the "I kill everything on the map instantly when fighting one faction" factor?  Gameplay is otherwise functionally similar.  

If the changes to SP are the only motivator, then I could say that SP rewarded sitting in a safe spot with a drinking bird far more than it did "fast casting."  Her cast animations haven't even changed!

May be becauce of the fact that magnetice is a duration based, stationary ability.

 

Don't ask me how this is supposed to be in conflict with Mobility as it clearly is not.

Set a globe, feed it/kill, repeat.

Magnetice isn't limited by quantity, nor is there reason to Stick around it for too long. Playing it stationary is therefore more of a choice then anything else.

 

Settings globes on pulled, incomming targets offers in fact safety from incomming bullets, what makes her playstyle more mobile then it was before. Or was BA a sufficient protection in her pre-reworked state? It is a wall now you are free to set whenever you want.

 

[tnccs215]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

May be becauce of the fact that magnetice is a duration based, stationary ability.

 

Don't ask me how this is supposed to be in conflict with Mobility as it clearly is not.

Set a globe, feed it/kill, repeat.

Magnetice isn't limited by quantity, nor is there reason to Stick around it for too long. Playing it stationary is therefore more of a choice then anything else.

 

Settings globes on pulled, incomming targets offers in fact safety from incomming bullets, what makes her playstyle more mobile then it was before. Or was BA a sufficient protection in her pre-reworked state? It is a wall now you are free to set whenever you want.

 

And?

I dont see anyone complaining about Snow Globe's absence of mobility, for example.

Stationary abilities aren't obligatorily bad. Yes, they shine more on missions like interception, defense and excavation, but in no way are they useless in other circumstances.

With pre-rework Mag, you barely had to move yourself. All you needed was to spam Shield Polarize. Now you actually have to move a bit, even if it is just in order not to get killed, and to draw enemies to where do you want them.

Is she the most mobile frame? No. Does that make her useless? Nope.

[RealPandemonium]

2 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

And?

I dont see anyone complaining about Snow Globe's absence of mobility, for example.

Stationary abilities aren't obligatorily bad. Yes, they shine more on missions like interception, defense and excavation, but in no way are they useless in other circumstances.

With pre-rework Mag, you barely had to move yourself. All you needed was to spam Shield Polarize. Now you actually have to move a bit, even if it is just in order not to get killed, and to draw enemies to where do you want them.

Is she the most mobile frame? No. Does that make her useless? Nope.

He was agreeing with you :o

[Dracario]

Someone please fix the mag magnetize bug

 

[tnccs215]

7 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

He was agreeing with you :o

Welp, I just lost an amazing oportunity to shut my mouth.

I apologise, @(PS4)CoolD2108. I just got so used to the negativity and the "oh but it's not mobile therefore it is trrible" argument that I just admitted that was what you said. Didn't even bother to read the whole post and actually see that you did agreed.

I'm terrbily sorry. And ashamed.

[Lancars]

23 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Same here. Changing her design this late in this extended-beta is like changing the original '67 Mustang into the '71 version. I'm sure folks who like new will enjoy the '71 ride, but people don't remember it like the '67. It's because I remembered how Mag played is why I returned to play her, an AoE fast caster.

She's a fast caster frame because she's not a survival frame. If she doesn't cast fast and cheap she's dead, low health; low armor (plus the bleed cheese makes shields like, "why do this even exist???", as that's her only defense).

Ha. Bleed cheese. I like that.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

On 20.6.2016 at 3:20 AM, tnccs215 said:

Welp, I just lost an amazing oportunity to shut my mouth.

I apologise, @(PS4)CoolD2108. I just got so used to the negativity and the "oh but it's not mobile therefore it is trrible" argument that I just admitted that was what you said. Didn't even bother to read the whole post and actually see that you did agreed.

I'm terrbily sorry. And ashamed.

Don't sweat it. No hard feelings :9

Just glad that I'm not the only one who is actually enjoying her rework

[tnccs215]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Don't sweat it. No hard feelings :9

Just glad that I'm not the only one who is actually enjoying her rework

well, no, you are not alone. I've presented her to a friend who just got off from a hiatus, and he's loving her immensely. Honestly, I think they really nailed her in the right spot. Yes, she needs to be able to preemptively blow Magnetize's Bubble, Fracturing Crush must become standard to the ability, Pull's Energy orb drop chance must not be dependent on enemy death, her energy reserves need a boost, and maybe Crush could create shards. But beyond that... She's pretty great. Honestly, I dont care for Polarize's lack of scaling. Some work with Fracturing Crush and it becomes the best armor stripping ability ingame. Even when it fails, it still wrecks shielding while restoring yours. And who needs it to scale, when Magnetize and Pull already do it?

And those who talk about her change of playstyle, well... Can press-2-to-win be called a playstyle? It was only a freak that shouldn't exist; that didn't even originally existed!

She ends up being the new Saryn, the one whose rework was originally despised not out of quality, but out of simply being different (and requiring a bit more work than to press a single button to wreck enemy lines), and who will be accepted slowly, and the ones who think she was better before seem as people with a somewhat faulty judgment.

[Cerebrum123]

43 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

well, no, you are not alone. I've presented her to a friend who just got off from a hiatus, and he's loving her immensely. Honestly, I think they really nailed her in the right spot. Yes, she needs to be able to preemptively blow Magnetize's Bubble, Fracturing Crush must become standard to the ability, Pull's Energy orb drop chance must not be dependent on enemy death, her energy reserves need a boost, and maybe Crush could create shards. But beyond that... She's pretty great. Honestly, I dont care for Polarize's lack of scaling. Some work with Fracturing Crush and it becomes the best armor stripping ability ingame. Even when it fails, it still wrecks shielding while restoring yours. And who needs it to scale, when Magnetize and Pull already do it?

And those who talk about her change of playstyle, well... Can press-2-to-win be called a playstyle? It was only a freak that shouldn't exist; that didn't even originally existed!

She ends up being the new Saryn, the one whose rework was originally despised not out of quality, but out of simply being different (and requiring a bit more work than to press a single button to wreck enemy lines), and who will be accepted slowly, and the ones who think she was better before seem as people with a somewhat faulty judgment.

Along with this, I think only a few other tweaks are needed. Make it so we can't get a wasted cast when an enemy dies too soon. Maybe give us the ability to cast it on the ground without an enemy. Make it a hold as opposed to a tap to make sure it goes where we want. Oh, and fix how it doesn't scale up right with certain weapons. The Sancti Tigris can pump out a lot of damage, but barely raises the power at all, but Quanta Vandal raises it massively. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

well, no, you are not alone. I've presented her to a friend who just got off from a hiatus, and he's loving her immensely. Honestly, I think they really nailed her in the right spot. Yes, she needs to be able to preemptively blow Magnetize's Bubble, Fracturing Crush must become standard to the ability, Pull's Energy orb drop chance must not be dependent on enemy death, her energy reserves need a boost, and maybe Crush could create shards. But beyond that... She's pretty great. Honestly, I dont care for Polarize's lack of scaling. Some work with Fracturing Crush and it becomes the best armor stripping ability ingame. Even when it fails, it still wrecks shielding while restoring yours. And who needs it to scale, when Magnetize and Pull already do it?

And those who talk about her change of playstyle, well... Can press-2-to-win be called a playstyle? It was only a freak that shouldn't exist; that didn't even originally existed!

She ends up being the new Saryn, the one whose rework was originally despised not out of quality, but out of simply being different (and requiring a bit more work than to press a single button to wreck enemy lines), and who will be accepted slowly, and the ones who think she was better before seem as people with a somewhat faulty judgment.

Magnetice's bubbles do have duration influence so Building them to your needs works just fine, fracturing crush's Pin could most definitly be implemented but man, they buffed percentuall armor depel on the augument. It's worth the Spot just for this feature and the polarice scaling is also sufficient in combination with crush.

Crush shards, 100% agree. They should eather be generated or used as the Animation does hint that they should but that's a tiny flaw. Still overall listed as pretty perfect Frame in my book!

[Aquasurge]

umm should shards be generated after enemies killed by mag (including weapons) generate shards the deal elemental dmg based on the proc she killed them with?

Edited June 22, 2016 by Aquasurge

[(PSN)BlackGuyver82]

RIP Mag?

[Cerebrum123]

1 hour ago, (PS4)m9123066880 said:

RIP Mag?

I'm actually getting more use out of her now. Work with a team who knows what to do and you can just destroy enemies. A few rounds from my Quanta Vandal and the DoT ticks get into the 100k range. That's me alone on infested. Imagine what you can do with a teammate against Grineer, or Corpus? I'm thinking damage into the millions, and possibly billions depending on enemy level. 

 

ETA: MAG is my most used frame, working on making MAG Prime the most used. I don't have a screenshot, but I can grab one of my profile later if you want. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Cerebrum123

[tnccs215]

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 11:29 PM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Magnetice's bubbles do have duration influence so Building them to your needs works just fine, fracturing crush's Pin could most definitly be implemented but man, they buffed percentuall armor depel on the augument. It's worth the Spot just for this feature and the polarice scaling is also sufficient in combination with crush.

I agree, specially since Mag herself isnt that hard to mod. However, CC aside, Crush is a pretty lackluster ultimate once enemy level starts to go up, lacking the utility many others have. Making Fracturing Crush innate would not only make the ability more utilitarian; it would also make the synergy between Polarize and Fracturing Crush innate, and therefore increasing Polarize's scaling (shutting up people who wont stop complaining about it). Three birds with one stone.

On the other hand, however, I don't want to introduce yet more "scaling" when she already has it on the form of Magnetize and Crush's innate CC, and we don't even know how enemy scaling will be altered. Fact is, there is a myriad of possible future scenarios that will make additional innate scaling to Crush unnecessary, or maybe even overpowered.

I suppose it's one of those cases in which either way can go.

[Tatersail]

Her 2 needs some tweaks

it needs to work like trinity EV, where you get the effect if you get the cast off even if the target dies.

Currently you can cast on an enemy use your energy, and then they die before it is applied.

the 4 bubble cap is also annoying, Nova Antimatter drop doesn't limit you to 4

 

Her 4 is currently pretty pointless, the 1500 extra damage is mostly pointless. it should have a different additional effect, like detonate all active magnetizes and add their damage to the aoe, saryn style.

 

her 3 "polarize" also seems be be bugged with power range effecting the initial cast radius, or at least the graphical effect.

 

It would be nice to have greedy pull LOS back, since we have finished with the whole draco mesa issue

[tnccs215]

3 hours ago, Tatersail said:

the 4 bubble cap is also annoying, Nova Antimatter drop doesn't limit you to 4

uhm... those two powers arent even remotely similar in any way except the fact that both are "2's". Further more, I dont know how necessary that is. 4 bubbles are already difficult to keep an eye on, much less even more bubbles.

 

3 hours ago, Tatersail said:

Her 4 is currently pretty pointless, the 1500 extra damage is mostly pointless. it should have a different additional effect, like detonate all active magnetizes and add their damage to the aoe, saryn style.

hardly it is pointless, the CC it offers is very good to gang up enemies inside the bubbles. Indeed, this is the only reason why I dont think Crush detonating all bubbles in range is a good idea: I too think there should be someway to blow up bubbles ahead of its time, but using Crush as an activator to that would do more harm than Good.

I admit that it could use some extra utility-- ence by post above stating that maybe Fracturing Crush could become an integral part of the ability. However, I dont think it is pointless as you present it.

3 hours ago, Tatersail said:

 

 

her 3 "polarize" also seems be be bugged with power range effecting the initial cast radius, or at least the graphical effect.

That is not a bug, it is a feature. Power Range affects the initial cast radius. Personally, I find that very good. Mag sometimes requires a vaguely negative duration for some Magnetize Builds that are more oriented towards the final explosion than the DoT, and it allows to maimtain a respectable radius without rendering it useless. The same happens the other way around.

 

3 hours ago, Tatersail said:

 

 It would be nice to have greedy pull LOS back, since we have finished with the whole draco mesa issue

If you mean Greedy pull pulling all drops towards her, including those "mapped" to teammates? If so, no. No no no. Mesa might mo longuer be the maim meta, but ganging above those boxes still happens. That power incites camping, and that is not good.

[Rambit23Z]

I feel Magnetize's pull should be affected by strength, to allow better CC potential.

Also, I feel Crush should have just been replaced completely. It's a really boring ability and is still outclassed by Polarize against Grineer and Corpus.

And perhaps an interesting passive as opposed to just built-in Carrier.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

5 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

And perhaps an interesting passive as opposed to just built-in Carrier.

I actually quite like her passive. I was skeptical at first, but it's super helpful for someone that doesn't run carrier. Like myself.

[motorfirebox]

31 minutes ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

I actually quite like her passive. I was skeptical at first, but it's super helpful for someone that doesn't run carrier. Like myself.

Same. Honestly, it's so good, I think it should be a feature on all frames.

Edited June 24, 2016 by motorfirebox

[tnccs215]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

I actually quite like her passive. I was skeptical at first, but it's super helpful for someone that doesn't run carrier. Like myself.

Thanks for saying it.

[Raven_nest]

I actually like the rework but i feel that pull should pull drops to her and greedy pull is for full team. Let see magnetize i can only get 3 bubbles. when casting the 4th magnetize the first bubble shrinks and explodes. i feel that magnetize and polarize could use range and duration buffs also some way to make magnetize explode other than casting the current max limit of magnetize.magnetize cast time should probably be shortened i have cast magnetize on an enemy and wasted energy barbecue a teammate or kubrow or sentinel has killed the target.  this is probably a bug but has any one noticed that sometimes when you cast polarize some enemies dont seem to be affected while they are within a few meters of her. i think crush should be changed. the cast is excessively slow and leaves her there as a sitting duck most of the time unless you have modded her for max range or make it so while preforming crush all bullets shot at her are repelled back at enemies with increased damage.