Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Rhaenxys]

My only problem with mag rework is how only the main target affected by magnetize receives more damage from pull and crush, it should be every enemy inside magnetize bubble.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Well, to be fair, I'm a fan of the Mag rework from Bullet Attractor to Magnetize, I absolutely love its unique mechanic. Using her as a kill-frame in this regard has made playing her more fun whenever I want to take advantage of chokepoints and bust out my Lanka or Torid.

However, I'm a bit miffed by Polarize with its augment, Shield Polarize. I figured it would have generate overshields per tick like it would with Trinity's Vampire Leech augment in such a way wherever Polarize comes into contact with an enemy it would replenish shields, shield regen per enemy afflicted within the effect duration range, but this isn't so. You only get shield regen or overshields per Polarize cast, and that's really inconvenient imho.

[tnccs215]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Well, to be fair, I'm a fan of the Mag rework from Bullet Attractor to Magnetize, I absolutely love its unique mechanic. Using her as a kill-frame in this regard has made playing her more fun whenever I want to take advantage of chokepoints and bust out my Lanka or Torid.

However, I'm a bit miffed by Polarize with its augment, Shield Polarize. I figured it would have generate overshields per tick like it would with Trinity's Vampire Leech augment in such a way wherever Polarize comes into contact with an enemy it would replenish shields, shield regen per enemy afflicted within the effect duration range, but this isn't so. You only get shield regen or overshields per Polarize cast, and that's really inconvenient imho.

actually, it grows both from the original cast and from depleted enemy shields. Bet you've tested her on grineer, wasn't it?

[SenorClipClop]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

 

So yeah, as a damage dealer, new Mag is just fine.

Some of the comments to this video accuse her of being press-2-to-win, but please keep in mind that this video is first and foremost a playtest of Magnetize, so the shots we have here being mostly of Magnetize is appropriate. Also note that Rob is playing solo Survival, so naturally the support and CC granted by her other moves don't come into play much. That said, I find Pull great for zoning enemies into your DoT deathball, and Crush is good for keeping them there; both will up your damage even further. (I try and Pull targets into a Magnetize zone as it reaches zero for some free explosion damage, too.)

[RealPandemonium]

Polarize is a new Grineer-destroyer, btw.  Mags have been popping up on Draco, using Polarize to decimate waves of level 40+ Grineer.  Polarize has also been shredding in Sortie 1s and 2s, only starting to dip in Sortie 3s; the fewer CPs present, the better.  

Polarize's damage multiplier against shields could stand to be increased slightly, though this is only a real concern at Sortie levels anyway.  

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

6 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

actually, it grows both from the original cast and from depleted enemy shields. Bet you've tested her on grineer, wasn't it?

I tested her on Corpus, but I suppose it was because I built her with a 67% Power Duration setup (Fleeting Expertise + Transient Fortitude + Primed Continuity, maxed). I wanted to get a balance between having a consistent Magnetize bubble (10-11 secs) as well as an up-close Polarize, but considering the Duration is so low I wasn't feeling the effects even with a group of Corpus enclosed inside the bubble?

And yes, Shield Polarize really hurts on Grineer. :/

[SenorClipClop]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I tested her on Corpus, but I suppose it was because I built her with a 67% Power Duration setup (Fleeting Expertise + Transient Fortitude + Primed Continuity, maxed). I wanted to get a balance between having a consistent Magnetize bubble (10-11 secs) as well as an up-close Polarize, but considering the Duration is so low I wasn't feeling the effects even with a group of Corpus enclosed inside the bubble?

And yes, Shield Polarize really hurts on Grineer. :/

I'm still working on a power level ratio that suits me, experimenting between Range and Duration (with some efficiency and then strength to fill if I have space). It appears that more Duration will let you deal more damage-over-time to less enemies, and building for Range will have you dealing less DoT to more enemies, on average. Lately I've been taking a Range-focused build for missions that require lots of moving around (Exterminate etc.) and a Duration-focused build for more stationary missions (Defense, etc.). I personally prefer going with fairly high Duration and focusing that stat more than anything, since I usually play Mag on defensive missions for her heavy crowd control. With my usual build I get Magnetize bubbles lasting for just a little over 30 seconds, which ramp up in damage quite a bit and are great for zoning off hallways and chokepoints.

[tnccs215]

Well, been doing some testing, and discovered why beam weapons are so ridiculous with the Bubble.

You know how beam weapons are basically glorified machine guns with perfect accuracy and limited range-- that is, they deal damage X times per second, instead of every moment--?

Well, the bubble didn't got the memo, so it registers damage as fast as the computer can process-- that is, the more fps's the bigger the damage.

[Rhaenxys]

Im doing some tests today and still im pretty disappointed in how the bonus damage from magnetized enemies only affects the initial target, the rework only moves mag as one trick pony with magnetize and maybe the ocasional polarize.

Considering the damage isnt that high to begin with, pull and crush should deal bonus damage to EVERY enemy inside magnetize bubble and not only the main target, hope this is changed in a future hotfix.

[SourTaco]

6 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

 

Well, the bubble didn't got the memo, so it registers damage as fast as the computer can process-- that is, the more fps's the bigger the damage.

Oh god. . . .it's peacemaker all over again. . .

[Dornez]

Mag went from a hard counter to Corpus to, "Well at least it is worth mastery points"

I can't think of a time when mag would be a better choice than....anything else

[tnccs215]

6 minutes ago, Dornez said:

Mag went from a hard counter to Corpus to, "Well at least it is worth mastery points"

I can't think of a time when mag would be a better choice than....anything else

oh god.

Just stop crying for the absence of lazy cheese and adapt.

She's Godawful powerful if you know how to use it.

So learn how to do it before coming here to complain.

Edited June 30, 2016 by tnccs215

[Dornez]

1 minute ago, tnccs215 said:

oh god.

Just stop crying for the absence of cheese and adapt.

Nerfing Mags shield rip was like removing Frosts snowglobe. It was what the frame was good for. It made sense, a magnetic frame should be very good against those that are weak to magnatism, aka Corpus. Back when Warframe started it was understood, you bring Excal to grineer missions, Ember to infested, and mag to Corpus. You were prepared for what you were facing. Excal and Ember still excel against enemies weak to their element, Mag sucks like a hoover vacuum.
 

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, Dornez said:

Nerfing Mags shield rip was like removing Frosts snowglobe. It was what the frame was good for. It made sense, a magnetic frame should be very good against those that are weak to magnatism, aka Corpus. Back when Warframe started it was understood, you bring Excal to grineer missions, Ember to infested, and mag to Corpus. You were prepared for what you were facing. Excal and Ember still excel against enemies weak to their element, Mag sucks like a hoover vacuum.

If by 'sucks' you mean 'sucks everything into giant bubbles of death blocking off every chokepoint'.

 

Good against those weak to magnetism? Corpus (shields), sure, but please point out to me where the health of Corpus units is weak to magnetic damage. You successfully made an argument for Shield Polarise only ever damaging shields, never spilling over. Yay?

 

If before was "Excal vs. Grineer, Ember vs. Infested, Mag vs. Corpus", now it's "Excal vs. everything, Mag vs. everything" _{And Ember vs. nothing in particular due to scaling issues.}

Any mission where Mag can bubble up a chokepoint or otherwise stick to a point, Magnetise just destroys everything. Adapt.

[tnccs215]

Just now, Dornez said:

Nerfing Mags shield rip was like removing Frosts snowglobe. It was what the frame was good for. It made sense, a magnetic frame should be very good against those that are weak to magnatism, aka Corpus. Back when Warframe started it was understood, you bring Excal to grineer missions, Ember to infested, and mag to Corpus. You were prepared for what you were facing. Excal and Ember still excel against enemies weak to their element, Mag sucks like a hoover vacuum.
 

Mag was a broken mess that trivialized gameplay. She literally made a level 200 corpus unit die as fast or faster than a level 6. She was broken, she was exploitable, and units like nullifiers and Combas were introduced to attempt to counteract her.

Additionally, She was completely useless against other factions, something she no longuer is.

And don't pretend that we have specialized frames like Ember and Excal. They might be stronguer against a faction or another, but they definetly aren't specialized as you claim.

And Mag is, currently, the most powerful Armor shreder. She's litterally the only frame that can permanently reduce enemy armor to zero. Up to really high levels, if you know how to build her.

Magnetize is possibly one of the most interesting, useful and powerful abilities ingame. It can create choke points, turn enemy damage against them, prevent them from damaging you, and completely destroy them.

The only way to think she is useless is to not even try to relearn her.

You have more than enough pages here with builds, tests and results proving you wrong.

Go read them.

[tnccs215]

@Dornez...

[Jade-Lotus]

So now that we're in Lunaro 7 and Specters is coming, I'm worried that Mag and Volt won't get any more attention even though they both have a lot of problems, especially Mag. These are some of the ideas I had that could help improve Mag a ton.

1. Pull:
   • I have no problems with pull right now, except that sometimes the pull seems too weak, and sometimes it throws the enemy way behind me. Otherwise a solid 1 skill.
2. Magnetize:
   • This, along with Polarize, is where a lot of her issues still are.
   • Make the strength of the attraction stronger, it's too easy for enemies to just run through the bubble and avoid taking any damage.
   • Reduce the damage multiplier but add some punch through to any projectile that enters the bubble, including the ones that hit-scan weapons produce with the bubble. This will allow the skill to shred groups of enemies better, make the skill less niche (Lanka with punch-through and gas/electricity just destroys, which isn't a major problem in my book, but will lead to there being a 'better' way to play as decided by the community. Same might apply with a Miter and max status chance with gas and electricity.), and make using the skill better in small spaces because the projectiles can pass through obstacles a bit.
3. Polarize:
   • Believe me, I was super happy with the concept of this skill, but in practice it doesn't scale well.
   • Make the ability work by percent again, with the possibility of high percentages available. I can understand that 100% shield and armor reduction can be really overpowered, but right now the skill just fails in endgame content. I think even a 90% shield and armor reduction could help a ton. Furthermore, maybe add a delay to Shield restoration to enemies struck with Polarize, and a little damage as well (less than with the Grineer though.) This way the skill is more even among the factions.
   • Finally, Polarize doesn't seem to work on enemies within the cast radius, and that's problematic. I think it would be nice if it behaved like Nova's Molecular Prime and instantly applied to enemies within the initial casting radius.
4. Crush:
   • I feel bad saying this, but Crush kinda sucks. It doesn't really feel like an ultimate ability or anything.
   • The casting speed is too slow. (In relation to the effect.)
   • The damage dealt doesn't scale well (Something I hope will be addressed for all skills and damage in Damage 3.0.) (( What about if you introduced true or fixed damage where it's guaranteed to deal a certain amount of damage regardless of other factors?))
   • And after you spend all that casting time and get that measly amount of damage the enemies just get back up and keep fighting, which seems a little underwhelming. I mean, the skill's description describes how you're literally "Magnetizing the bones of enemies," and "forcefully [compressing] their bodies." But they just get back up again in a second or two after that. To add more effect and use to Crush, why not add the ability of where the enemies caught in the full blast of the skill (all three ticks) get turned into rag-dolls? I mean, their bones just got crushed. Enemies who only suffer one or two ticks of damage can still suffer from the knockdown and such, but this new effect could add a little more useful crowd control.

Thank you all so much for reading this if you do, and I really truly am grateful to everyone at DE for all the hard work you put into this game I love so much. I also appreciate how you all listen and work with us players to make the game amazing. Thank you times infinity!

Edited June 30, 2016 by Jade-Lotus
Trying to remove the weird white highlight at the end, a typo because I have to fix it or I'll go crazy, and an additional thought.

[Joel_The_Jackle]

7 minutes ago, Jade-Lotus said:

So now that we're in Lunaro 7 and Specters is coming, I'm worried that Mag and Volt won't get any more attention even though they both have a lot of problems, especially Mag. These are some of the ideas I had that could help improve Mag a ton.

1. Pull:
   • I have no problems with pull right now, except that sometimes the pull seems too weak, and sometimes it throws the enemy way behind me. Otherwise a solid 1 skill.
2. Magnetize:
   • This, along with Polarize, is where a lot of her issues still are.
   • Make the strength of the attraction stronger, it's too easy for enemies to just run through the bubble and avoid taking any damage.
   • Reduce the damage multiplier but add some punch through to any projectile that enters the bubble, including the ones that hit-scan weapons produce with the bubble. This will allow the skill to shred groups of enemies better, make the skill less niche (Lanka with punch-through and gas/electricity just destroys, which isn't a major problem in my book, but will lead to there being a 'better' way to play as decided by the community. Same might apply with a Miter and max status chance with gas and electricity.), and make using the skill better in small spaces because the projectiles can pass through obstacles a bit.
3. Polarize:
   • Believe me, I was super happy with the concept of this skill, but in practice it doesn't scale well.
   • Make the ability work by percent again, with the possibility of high percentages available. I can understand that 100% shield and armor reduction can be really overpowered, but right now the skill just fails in endgame content. I think even a 90% shield and armor reduction could help a ton. Furthermore, maybe add a delay to Shield restoration to enemies struck with Polarize, and a little damage as well (less than with the Grineer though.) This way the skill is more even among the factions.
   • Finally, Polarize doesn't seem to work on enemies within the cast radius, and that's problematic. I think it would be nice if it behaved like Nova's Molecular Prime and instantly applied to enemies within the initial casting radius.
4. Crush:
   • I feel bad saying this, but Crush kinda sucks. it doesn't really feel like an ultimate ability or anything.
   • The casting speed is too slow.
   • The damage dealt doesn't scale well (Something I hope will be addressed for all skills and damage in Damage 3.0.)
   • And after you spend all that casting time and get that measly amount of damage the enemies just get back up and keep fighting, which seems a little underwhelming. I mean, the skill's description describes how you're literally "Magnetizing the bones of enemies," and "forcefully [compressing] their bodies." But they just get back up again in a second or two after that. To add more effect and use to Crush, why not add the ability of where the enemies caught in the full blast of the skill (all three ticks) get turned into rag-dolls? I mean, their bones just got crushed. Enemies who only suffer one or two ticks of damage can still suffer from the knockdown and such, but this new effect could add a little more useful crowd control.

Thank you guy's so much for reading this if you do, and I really truly am grateful for all he hard work you put into this game I love so much. I also appreciate how you all listen and work with us players to make the game amazing. Thank you times infinity!

Agree with this pretty much. I'd even be happy if they did her trinity-style and capped her 3 at a 75%. Fixed damage and scaling enemies is a guaranteed way to make a skill eventually loose effectiveness. Hopefully this means they are getting ready to fix scaling....but I doubt it. As it is it works for the starchart.

IMO the rework turned Mag from a one-trick anti-corpus pony to a one-trick anti-everything pony. But a rework that still makes a warframe entirely dependent on a single one their skills for all their utility is still a bad design concept. I'm happy that she has multiple uses now but I feel they could have done much, much better.

[(XBOX)C0gnitive 0n3]

Having used many of the builds I've seen by YouTubers and following their suggestions on how to play her; I have used Mag on Egeria, Ceres and have gone for an average of 50+ minutes. I've taken her to T4Sur and have lasted, on average, 70+ minutes - multiple runs on each node were solo. I then asked some clan mates for help in testing out how she works in a team environment. We went to a T4Sur and these were our times: 76, 62, 91, 86 minutes. At the end of these tests, which all-together lasted a little over 3 days, I discovered one thing about Mag - and again, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION: regardless of being able to dish out millions of points in damage she's, for the most part, a 1-trick pony that's boring to play.

Magnetize + Magnetize + Magnetize + Polarize, while everyone else shoots at the bubble(s) then repeat the entire process. Thank goodness for Zenurik.

Why did I hit Magnetize so much? Because, despite finding good choke points, there was ALWAYS a straggler who made its way through the Magnetize bubble. I found that recasting it a couple of times assured that EVERYTHING near the bubble was attracted to it.

I'm trying my best to like Mag's rework - but I can't.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Mag post rework definitely needs a little energy pool boost IMO, and really a cut of the casting times...cherry on top would be to give polarize some more impact when it comes to hurting shields against high lvl corpus enemies ( just shields ) and give Polarize a base unmodded duration on par with Magnetize or a lil higher so if we want to run low dur to use quick bubbles explosions we can still have a decent duration ( and area coverage ) for polarize...as for the rest i like the new rework, after testing her alot i changed my mind and i like her now even more .I miss the fact she can't totally remove shields anymore ( keyword REMOVE not NUKE ) against high lvl corpuses but it is what it is...

ps: i really like the suggestions and analysis posted by Jade-Lotus , those are pretty good tweaks without making her OP

Edited June 30, 2016 by arm4geddon-117

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Well, I recently posted my sentiments regarding Mag's Polarize and its augment, Shield Transference. I'm kinda in the bandwagon that wants to see Shield Transference get a rework, considering the fact that Polarize was reworked to not only affect enemy Shields (Corpus) but enemy Armor as well (Grineer). I don't really have any suggestions on how to go about in readjusting the augment, though as it stands it only seems to fulfill one-half of the criteria Polarize does now.

Now that we have Equinox's Power augments available to us, this realization is ever more apparent.

Edited July 1, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
edit1: grammar fix, edit2: fixed "Shield Polarize" into "Shield Transference."

[Zamiake]

I just watched Brozime's video displaying how weak mags skills are and im shocked at how terribly done her rework is. It honestly needs to have a rework on the rework its so bad.

You cant kill a single thing with that frame unless you are not using any powers at all and only using your weapons. Mag definately needs to be  tweaked with more power damage scaling. He had 300% power damage couldnt even kill basic guys with Ult

[RealPandemonium]

53 minutes ago, Zamiake said:

I just watched Brozime's video displaying how weak mags skills are and im shocked at how terribly done her rework is. It honestly needs to have a rework on the rework its so bad.

You cant kill a single thing with that frame unless you are not using any powers at all and only using your weapons. Mag definately needs to be  tweaked with more power damage scaling. He had 300% power damage couldnt even kill basic guys with Ult

Brozime is a hack who consistently misrepresents things in his videos.  I'm not sure if he does it on purpose to get more views and create bad publicity for various things, or if he is just inept.  

The few times I met him in missions, he was annoying and dense to talk to and displayed only superficial understanding of how the game works.  His videos should not be taken remotely seriously.  

Edited July 1, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[motorfirebox]

1 hour ago, Zamiake said:

You cant kill a single thing with that frame unless you are not using any powers at all and only using your weapons. Mag definately needs to be  tweaked with more power damage scaling. He had 300% power damage couldnt even kill basic guys with Ult

I don't know who Brozime is, but he clearly doesn't know anything about how to play Mag properly. When I take Mag into sorties, I usually take top damage and kills.

[Faulcun]

47 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Brozime is a hack who consistently misrepresents things in his videos.  I'm not sure if he does it on purpose to get more views and create bad publicity for various things, or if he is just inept.  

The few times I met him in missions, he was annoying and dense to talk to and displayed only superficial understanding of how the game works.  His videos should not be taken remotely seriously.  

^ This

 

I find that most people dont know how to play effectively... with any frame realistically. Mag was a beast before the rework, and she is a beast after the rework even more.