Aquasurge Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 59 minutes ago, Cytobel said: Rant. Posts are shorter and more to the point. I keep ranting about Volt. I really should hop over to the Mag superthread and sing the song of doom there instead. Also, I assure you these are just the current issues. dear god, zues, i see you have pick up an sense of humour. 9 hours ago, Archwizard said: Increase un-Primed Volt's base energy, and consider ways for him to regenerate his own (which would truly let him be an "alternative to gunplay") or increase his cost-efficiency. Volt is much more of an energy hog following these changes, particularly due to the use of Shock to enhance his other abilities (giving everything but Speed an increase in effective cost); even as Volt Prime, I've gone through about 40 energy pads a day with him since the update, so I can't fathom the nightmare that starting players have been having with him. Further, this could help bridge the vast gap in effectiveness between Volt and Volt Prime. this needs to be a thing. honestly, i wouldn't mind if the other base four elemental frames other than ember (volt, saryn, frost) had ways to increase power efficiency, duration or range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectronX_Core Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 7 hours ago, Cytobel said: Shock is where I recommend the most change. Electric Shield is now a bi-modal skill that has the potential to be useful beyond what old Electric Shield was capable of (once the list of nerfs longer than the whole list of Volt's skills are pruned). The best thing here is the bi-modal portion. Granting different options for how the move can be used. I'd like to see Shock performing different tasks in the kit too. As a "keystone" ability it really does damn little for the other skills. Electrifying ES is neat, but I REALLY want to see some decent proc chance there to slow rushing enemies. There isn't much at all happening when used with Discharge, but that move is probably gonna have this "percentile health damage" thing looked into again, so I'll leave that be for now. What I want from Shock is a charge-up (hold 1 for a moment) version that has some AoE knockdown. This would give us possible Finisher opportunities and make the move more valuable in the presence of Ancient Healers. Also, you could make this "charged Shock" grant better benefits to ES and Discharge. (Psst! BALL LIGHTNING) And this is the point where you realise that Frost is much more effective at CC. Or is that just me? Anyways, what if Shock (or Discharge, but I would prefer Shock) electrocuted the floor, stunning enemies kinda like that Ice Wave augment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSACHIE Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Its good to see everyone addressing this problem or noticing there changes...Overload looked cooler and sounds cooler can't they just mix them both from both updates and call it overcharged?? Really miss the range and the lights going out in huge firefights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiedra Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 I'm still salty about that Speed change. I just wanna help my team along with a little butt pat so they go faster! Having your friends group up and pick up the coil really breaks the pace of Speed as a team buff ability. If we're not going to bring back the old speed mechanics, I had a little alternative idea yesterday, tell me what you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duduminador Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) The top most synergy I managed to squeeze out of Volt... Use sprint mods to boosts the default sprint speed before it's multiplied by Speed. Use shocking speed because the contact electric damage will not spend the passive (altho it doesn't benefit from it either). Do not use another means of damaging mobs besides Shocking speed. When the passive reaches the cap, put a shield, shock it, whether you leave the shield there or pick it, it's up to you. The standing shield will deal your base shock damage on contant with mobs plus the 1k from the passive. IF you pick the shields, the shocked riot shield damage will be dealt along with shocking speed. Do not recomend picking it. The requirements for this includes, duration, because the shield's life spam comes before all else (there's also the toggle consumption, but the need for duration sort of covers it). Range because DE had the brilliant idea of making the shield's energy consumption also tick per run distance. And you absolutely need str, it's not even for the damage! it's so you charge the passive as fast as possible. In the end, it's still a weak gimmick. Too much effort for a so-so damage, that can be easily surpassed by shoosting stuff, meleeing stuff, pretty much, actively using anything else. plus Volt looks incredibly stupid running back and forth overly accelerated (as if he were part of a 1920's silent comedy) for the single purpose of charging the damn passive, and imo, even more silly running with the Riot shield in front of it (seriously starting to hate the thing just because it got made). Edited June 6, 2016 by Duduminador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorClipClop Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 41 minutes ago, Duduminador said: In the end, it's still a weak gimmick. Too much effort for a so-so damage, that can be easily surpassed by shoosting stuff, meleeing stuff, pretty much, actively using anything else. While I agree the shield's portability isn't very useful, especially as direct damage; it is a utility skill and its damage should be thought of as more of a deterrent than a killing tool. I personally like the inclusion of the pick-up shield. It wasn't going to be made, but because of widespread player demand it was implemented. And while it's pretty costly, it makes some sense. Some players build Volt really squishy and want the option of occasional added defense. I use the pick-up function to reposition shields at new angles to face new threats to an objective (I believe it also resets their timer). And it's a nice optional touch, since the shields were originally so stationary while the rest of Volt is so mobile. 47 minutes ago, Duduminador said: plus Volt looks incredibly stupid running back and forth overly accelerated (as if he were part of a 1920's silent comedy) for the single purpose of charging the damn passive Probably shouldn't do this, then. The passive stacks pretty quick and you don't have to get to 1000 all the time. Even at max stacks it adds a nice boost, but not so much extra damage that players should be relying on it or building their strategies around it, I think. It's just a nice extra touch to the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasten Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Chicadino said: I'm still salty about that Speed change. I just wanna help my team along with a little butt pat so they go faster! Having your friends group up and pick up the coil really breaks the pace of Speed as a team buff ability. If we're not going to bring back the old speed mechanics, I had a little alternative idea yesterday, tell me what you think! This is actually a very interesting idea. I do genuinely like it in concept. Although from a programming stand it's a bit more complex to do. Fortunately DE already has Code for this in Nezha's Fire Walker #1 power. Making the zone a bit wider, changing the FX it uses, and working on how it builds up and spreads would be the work DE would need to put in. It also sadly nothing we do to individual powers will address that minority that are for some reason super angry at having their ground speed boosted. We still need a universal method for accepting or declining team buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Chicadino said: I'm still salty about that Speed change. I just wanna help my team along with a little butt pat so they go faster! Having your friends group up and pick up the coil really breaks the pace of Speed as a team buff ability. If we're not going to bring back the old speed mechanics, I had a little alternative idea yesterday, tell me what you think! A fool-proof plan! I like it! Edited June 6, 2016 by Wolfnrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 8 hours ago, OSACHIE said: Its good to see everyone addressing this problem or noticing there changes...Overload looked cooler and sounds cooler can't they just mix them both from both updates and call it overcharged?? Really miss the range and the lights going out in huge firefights I fully support overcharge with a mixture of overload and the current discharge. Well, discharge is a medical term and it isn't a pretty one...I want it gone and overcharge as a perfect fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfnrun Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Space mom...please read everything that's been spoken of here...thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cytobel Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) Wellll.... Just read the stuff I wrote most recently. I was pretty salty to start. I was expecting something more like where Saryn's rework is, and it's really not too reasonable to expect that kind of work right off the bat. Edited June 7, 2016 by Cytobel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duduminador Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, SenorClipClop said: It wasn't going to be made, but because of widespread player demand it was implemented. There was no widespread player demand for picking the shields, people wanted the shields to do damage on contact. And there was a clusterfuck of better ideas running through the whole forum and the one time [DE] admited they based the gimmick from a fan suggestion it wasn't even from a forum post, but a comment on Twitter. Edited June 6, 2016 by Duduminador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cytobel Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Duduminador said: There was no widespread player demand for picking the shields, people wanted the shields to do damage on contact. And there was a clusterfuck of better ideas running through the whole forum and the one time [DE] admited they based the gimmick from a fan suggestion it wasn't even from a forum post, but a comment on Twitter. Actually, this idea was OLD. Really, really old. As in, Vauban was brand new old. This is from back after the first Overload nerf happened, and Volt had no real utility anymore. His Shock was basically identical to one zap from a Shock Grenade with better range, so many of us were coming up with all sorts of redesignes of Volt. This was one idea for ES that I really liked. And it's a really solid idea, it just has so many mitigating factors added on that it's unusable. Lets count those factors out, shall we? -Riot Shield is radically narrower. I would've added this myself as it feels needed. Far as I'm concerned, this stays. It makes Riot Shield play a bit distinctly from basic Electric Shield. -Riot Shield prevents the use of a main gun. This one only would make sense if Volt had an animation for carrying the shield, but then it should restrict 2-handed melee as well so it shouldn't be a thing. -Riot Shield requires Efficiency and Duration due to cost per second AND per meter traveled. While Duration isn't a bad thing at all for Volt requiring Efficiency as well means that you need to focus away from Strength or Range... Basically, these tacked-on costs are a deal-breaker. Worse they make NO sense with his passive, which itself is unfriendly with Parkour 2.0, sooo... -Riot Shield slows Volt. This makes the ability work AGAINST Speed, which many players have traditionally built entirely towards. That means Riot Shield is a double-no-go for many players due to hurting Speed and requiring a different build. -Riot Shield has added energy costs AND eats duration time from the shield. Okay, this is an either-or sort of thing. Either Riot Shield has a duration or it has a cost per second, never both and NEVER a cost-per-meter. Riot Shield isn't melee-friendly as it doesn't guard against melee strikes. In this case I'm alright with that. A charged Electric Shield should have a status chance to proc electric on foes, which would solve this issue totally, making Riot Shield more of an offensive tool. I REALLY want to love (or even use) Riot Shield, but there were SOOOO many nerfs to it even before it was really played... In it's current state it encourages people to NOT use it or even build a different Volt. Speed Volt is still king for many people. ---------------------------------------------- EDIT: Riiiight, I should remember to state what I'd like to see happening instead of what's going on now. Here it is: Keep the narrow profile that's locked to the camera. This rewards players for looking at what's shooting at them. A tactical 'Frame should ALWAYS be paying attention to what's happening and where shots are coming from. If the ability HAS to have a cost per second, suspend the timer while it's being carried. That's really powerful, but it'd give Volt a shield saving option as well, and that'd be kinda neat. Avoid cost per meter like the Plague. Remove the main-gun restriction because it doesn't work when you can use a Galantine with the shield up. Finally, for the love of God don't invent more nerfs to REPLACE these ones, because we need to encourage people to build differently. Speed Volt is... what it is, but I want to see more than a 1-trick pony when others are running Volt. Edited June 6, 2016 by Cytobel clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 9 hours ago, Chicadino said: I'm still salty about that Speed change. I just wanna help my team along with a little butt pat so they go faster! Having your friends group up and pick up the coil really breaks the pace of Speed as a team buff ability. If we're not going to bring back the old speed mechanics, I had a little alternative idea yesterday, tell me what you think! Fan-*ucking-tactic! *multi-clicks up vote button with speed activated* CLI-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-cli-CLICK!!!! "What? Only ONE up vote???" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cytobel Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 9 hours ago, Chicadino said: I'm still salty about that Speed change. I just wanna help my team along with a little butt pat so they go faster! Having your friends group up and pick up the coil really breaks the pace of Speed as a team buff ability. If we're not going to bring back the old speed mechanics, I had a little alternative idea yesterday, tell me what you think! This is the first opt-in idea I've seen that looks like it'd WORK. +1 for sure, and I hope DE gives it a try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duduminador Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 23 minutes ago, Cytobel said: Actually, this idea was OLD. Really, really old. As in, Vauban was brand new old. This is from back after the first Overload nerf happened, and Volt had no real utility anymore. His Shock was basically identical to one zap from a Shock Grenade with better range, so many of us were coming up with all sorts of redesignes of Volt. This was one idea for ES that I really liked. And it's a really solid idea, it just has so many mitigating factors added on that it's unusable. Lets count those factors out, shall we? being Old doesn't make it a wide spread player demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Duduminador said: There was no widespread player demand for picking the shields, people wanted the shields to do damage on contact. And there was a clusterfuck of better ideas running through the whole forum and the one time [DE] admited they based the gimmick from a fan suggestion it wasn't even from a forum post, but a comment on Twitter. Instead of improved synergy, I see the themes of compromise, contradiction, and contraindication in a rework thread that has no nerfs... My idea to tie his kit together was simply this: Allow Volt to cast his other 3 powers while on the move with Speed active. How? Simple: Have it execute within the exact same cast time parameters but simply have him build with a charging GLOW as he is running and then boom, it goes off. It requires skill and anticipation between cast-and-drop. You see, Volt's synergy is that of a strafe frame, not a stop-go-stop-slow frame. A STRAFE FRAME. He should have a higher base speed. I drop shields as much for squadmates as for myself, and I never want to stop moving. I wouldn't even care if you added an energy penalty or cast time penalty of +20%. Make it an inherent part of speed or another passive, but please, for the love of relevancy and efficiency and fun and cohesion...consider adding it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cytobel Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 41 minutes ago, Duduminador said: being Old doesn't make it a wide spread player demand. Correct. However, that doesn't make it a bad idea OR a bad part of the kit. I was suggesting that its all the mitigating factors grafted on that ruin the viability of Riot Shield. I would like to see a usable version of this addition to Electric Shield; something usable with Speed instead of a nerf to it. I've long advocated for more options in Volt's kit. Riot Shield COULD give us more options without additional abilities. That's the part I'm most excited by, though improving Volt's survivability is a very close second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopesayer Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 plz either remove volt's "riot shield's" duration or energy drain as having both penalties is just not only redundant, but also severely limits its usability. e.g. a riot shield equipped on my power strength + duration build either expires when i need it the moment or drains my entire energy pool within seconds. i end up not using this ability at all. it is a nice addition to volt, but plz make it usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectronX_Core Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, nopesayer said: plz either remove volt's "riot shield's" duration or energy drain as having both penalties is just not only redundant, but also severely limits its usability. e.g. a riot shield equipped on my power strength + duration build either expires when i need it the moment or drains my entire energy pool within seconds. i end up not using this ability at all. it is a nice addition to volt, but plz make it usable. summarises my thoughts. except for the fact that it forces sencondaries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Eliminate the drain/distance on riot shield, IMO. Maybe make holding it slow you down by 20% to compensate for the added protection. Also, why not allow allies to pick up the shields as well if they want? Edited June 7, 2016 by RealPandemonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectronX_Core Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 8 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said: Also, why not allow allies to pick up the shields as well if they want? Cuz Mesa. And Excalibur (maybe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 1 minute ago, ElectronX_Core said: Cuz Mesa. And Excalibur (maybe). ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectronX_Core Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said: ? Peacemaker and Exalted Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Just now, ElectronX_Core said: Peacemaker and Exalted Blade. What do those have to do with being able to carry riot shields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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