Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[LunarEdge7]

6 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

-The other texts-

Discharge Changes:
Volt fires a ball of energy that spreads out (via the current spread mechanic) when it hits either an enemy or a structure. Range to be reduced to 9/11/13/15. Duration to be decreased to 6/7/8/9, plus an electric proc applied on contact and reaplied at the end of each second. Damage to remain the same but enemies only shock one target at a time, preferring first those unaffected by the ability, second others affected by the ability, and finally themselves (with no delay between shifting targets). Ability damage bypasses armor. Damage cap removed.

I agree with all of this except, I hope this change still means that Discharge can still be relied upon for CC stun.

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I agree with all of this except, I hope this change still means that Discharge can still be relied upon for CC stun.

It's officially been 2 months with nothing. I want to say "Forget about it!" Due to the duration of this, but you never know, not likely though 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

4 hours ago, TenGaugeBoson said:

Volt is my main Frame.

His rework made him so freaking over powered I didn't think they would let us keep him!

If you are having problems clearing anything with him then I am confused.

I have 3 load outs for Volt.

#1 Speed + naramon =Melee.

         Maximize Strength and Duration and use "Shocking Speed" after your first Naramon pop you are basically invisible the rest of the mission I solo 40 minute t4's easy

#2 Over Shield & CC =Zenuric

        Maximize strength and range and use " Capacitance" Once your first focus pops you have all the enegy you need to cc entire maps through walls and everything.

#3 Balanced Speed+CC = Zenuric

        Maximize Strength Range and Duration. And use both the Syndicate mods above.And you are just an all around bad &#!.

 

Volt is likely the most powerful frame in the game at the moment...Arguably of coarse...but there is no reason what so ever to be even a little upset about his rework.Jeeze man I am afraid he is gonna get nerfed.

The simple truth: they changed volt in a way I do not like and made my ability to continue playing with him the way I did before impossible, therefore I hate it.

Discharge...and it looks terrible compared to what overload looked like.

He is boring. All they did was make him stun stuff for longer periods of time. Unimaginitive. And broken, since it doesn't work all the time.

I can't cast discharge in the air. And my sheild drains energy while moving.

I can't move anymore.

I'm encouraged not to.

With this rework, I can sit behind a sheild, and watch enemies wiggle while waiting for my passive to fill up, then confuse everything With a better version of chaos (sad nyx). That's powerful?

[Wolfnrun]

@[DE]Danielle Aren't you going to lock this thread? Damage already done 

[----Dante----]

at 48 pages of complaints about how pointless volt rework was DE came and said "rework was well recived"

now we re at 61 pages and still not a single word from DE

i guess its going nowhere they just simply ignore this thread.

I just want to say 1 thing to DE: if you dont have time to do proper rework do not do reworks at all please.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Dante123pl

[EnderDDT]

5 hours ago, TenGaugeBoson said:

Volt is my main Frame.

His rework made him so freaking over powered I didn't think they would let us keep him!

If you are having problems clearing anything with him then I am confused.

I have 3 load outs for Volt.

#1 Speed + naramon =Melee.

         Maximize Strength and Duration and use "Shocking Speed" after your first Naramon pop you are basically invisible the rest of the mission I solo 40 minute t4's easy

#2 Over Shield & CC =Zenuric

        Maximize strength and range and use " Capacitance" Once your first focus pops you have all the enegy you need to cc entire maps through walls and everything.

#3 Balanced Speed+CC = Zenuric

        Maximize Strength Range and Duration. And use both the Syndicate mods above.And you are just an all around bad &#!.

 

Volt is likely the most powerful frame in the game at the moment...Arguably of coarse...but there is no reason what so ever to be even a little upset about his rework.Jeeze man I am afraid he is gonna get nerfed.

I understand that he can be used to good effect, but you might understand more about what people are complaining about if you tried to use other warframes and compared what they are capable of with what Volt can actually do.  Let me give you an example by starting with what you wrote were good things to do with him.

#1= Naramon Mele

This can literally be done with any warframe, but Volt has an advantage because he has a mele buff. Compare this with any number of others who also have mele buffs, most of which do not require energy to use, or with other secondary buffs, and Volt immediately pales in comparison.  If you want to mele then you are better off with Ash, Excalibur, or Valkir. Ash has a passive damage buff on slash procs (so use a slashing weapon) and his other abilities include a way to jump immediately to enemies, making them vulnerable to mele finishers (which ignores both shields and all armor) and a way to immediately go invisible if his Narimon breaks. Excalibur gets a passive buff to all swords (being a passive buff means it requires no energy and is not badly affected by nulifiers) while he also has a jump, and ability that allows finishers on all enemies nearby, and a exaulted sword that can proc Narimon at range. Even if you feel like you absolutely need the mele buff that Volt has, Valkir is a better alternative. Her speed boost, when she uses her augment, can literally last forever and her exaulted weapon, with its 50% base crit chance that is affected by weapon augments, can immediately get you into the Naramon buff or heal you or give you invincibility to get away from a bad situation, etc. Volt's other abilities don't even help him deal damage in Narimon. What people are asking for that would affect this plan is a duration increase (which would decrease the need for a maximized duration down to just "increase duration somewhat") and a base speed increase. BTW, two of those three alternatives have higher base speed and all three have a way to close the gap, the increases would only serve to make him balanced with what others can do.

#2= Overshield with map-wide stun.

Volt actually can't do this. The spread mechanic on his #4 won't go through walls and won't travel far enough to get things on different levels. Furthermore increasing the range causes the stun to disappear very quickly (because of the damage cap). You do get good overshields when you don't get much of a stun. If you are going against armor you get a good stun but greatly reduced overshields. You know who is better at giving you defense and CC? Frost, Loki, Mag, Neza, Nyx, and Rhino. Literally every single frame with a large area CC ability and either an ability or an augment that gives defense. Nyx is the only one on the list that doesn't have hard CC (Hard CC= enemy can do literally nothing.) as her AoE CC causes enemies to attack each other, but her augment makes her completely immune to damage even as she attacks. Every one of the other's AoE CC abilities actually do work through walls, have a similar or higher effective range (after terrain is considered), and are less dependent on enemies in order to boost their own defense. If you are wondering why so many of us are asking for Discharge to be fixed, this is one example.

#3= Do a halfway job of both of the above.

Look previous explanations and split the difference. Then apply volt's below average defense, the necessity to be near the enemies to exasorbate that weakness, and he ends up being one of the weaker warframes.

Lets be honest, he isn't in the Limbo or Zephyr level of bad, but he is definately below average except for a few specific categories (as a Naramon user, for instance), but even then he doesn't measure up with the alternatives. He can also kill enemies quite effectively and feel really good, but he can't kill as well or as safely as a large number of other warframes.

 

 

[Grumpy]

I'm just wondering how many times people are going to ask for re-works on frames.  It just seems that no one is ever happy here.  Volt got a re-work and everyone was happy, and now this again.  We have thousands of players who have " expectations " on what warframe should be, and you can't please everyone, and trying to please everyone is not good for anything.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

5 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

@[DE]Danielle Aren't you going to lock this thread? Damage already done 

Wait, no, the memories will fade:0 

[EnderDDT]

19 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

I'm just wondering how many times people are going to ask for re-works on frames.  It just seems that no one is ever happy here.  Volt got a re-work and everyone was happy, and now this again.  We have thousands of players who have " expectations " on what warframe should be, and you can't please everyone, and trying to please everyone is not good for anything.

 

Who, exactly, that was asking for a rework before and still uses Volt now, is happy? Are you saying that his numbers are balanced with other warframes? Because it sounds like you think things are good as they are.

Do you believe that a unidirectional shield is worth more than twice as much energy per second as invisibility, and a steal, and a modable headshot multiplier all in one?  You believe that a unidirectional shield should cost more than 2 exaulted weapons, and an evasion bonus, and a speed bonus, and the ability to stinking FLY (all rolled up into one)?!? You believe that a unidirectional shield, that only blocks about 90 degrees out of a full 360 and gives an unmodable bonus damages (mostly of a weak type), is powerful enough to deserve 4 seperate power inhibitors beyond energy cost over time (more than any other in the game) despite there being far better protective abilities that have no downsides beyond initial cost (which this also has in addition to the other cost over time)?

I keep hearing how DE listens to their players, but I can't help wondering if this only applies to the Design Council or is something that DE is pulling away from doing. I have personally defended DE as a company that listens to their players, but that was when they were talking about fixing problems and dealing with longstanding issues and before those changes were finalized and left with glaring holes and power issues. Now I have other things to look at, and I'm really not sure what to say while still being honest. I remember the Mirage Prism update and how even Mirage players were asking for it to be reduced to line of sight in exchange for a reduced casting time. The range was reduced but the one thing players asked and even begged for to keep the power balanced was completely ignored. I remember Mag players asking that her Polarize deal percentage based reductions rather than flat, because flat reductions quickly become meaningless against enemies that scale infinitely. Nothing has been changed. I see us being ignored, even about the undeniable issue of Riot Shield cost, despite it being months that it has been out. And that is before we even get a chance to start to talk about Volt's other issues. I remember how accepting Excalibur players were of the Exaulted Blade nerf, asking that the combo counter be added in (at least when attacking from normal mele range) so that it could scale with other mele weapons but not making that connected to the need for the range nerf. I saw Excalibur players complaining about the energy cost being given to their slide attacks when they would just rather the pseudo-"Radial Blind" gone. And then I saw those requests and complaints ignored completely. I remember old Archwing and how fun it was (despite horrible drops), and now I see a system that I can't even play because it makes me sick and still doesn't deal with the main issues that people had with the mode. You still insist on keeping the auto righting despite it being a MEDICAL ISSUE for goodness sake. I remember the passive ability additions and how many of them were useless at higher levels and at least one was actively detrimental, yet these things remained almost completely without change despite the feedback. I see massive Necros nerfs and worry about the care that will be given to those players pointing these things out considering what has been happening. And then I worry about Limbo and Zephyr and Oberon who are all badly in need of updates.

I'm reaching out to you here, DE. To @[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Danielle @[DE]Steve @[DE]Megan and/or anyone else at Digital Extremes who is willing to listen. I am trying to believe in you and defend you, but I need some more material to work with here. To be completely honest I would not have been the slightest bit upset if the Volt updates had been delayed a month or three or even six months so that the other updates could be ironed out first. At least then I could have had confidence that the job of finalizing and balancing the updates would have been finished. Update delays are FAR more acceptable than halfway finished updates. Don't get me wrong, there is still plenty of major story-line and other updates that can be done in the meantime, I'm not asking for production on these things to stop. All I'm asking is that the current issues be acknowledged and dealt with before devoting such time and energy to other things that the current issues are forgotten. When people tell me that a successful game company won't listen to their players, I very much want to point to DE and say that those people are wrong. I want to point out the issues that players have brought up as important and be able to say loudly that DE listened, cared, and did the work to fix the issues that players kept finding problematic. I want to be able to speak truthfully and authoritatively on how good a company this is because, believe me, if I lie people will be able to find evidence of that.

The only reason I am making this plea at all is because I do believe that there is some evidence that DE does try to listen to players, such as the recent Nulifier work. I don't want anyone to think that I don't recognize the good that is and could be here, the very fact that I am expending so much energy trying to get things done is proof that I think it isn't a lost cause. I recognize that focusing on those older frames and issues was, itself, evidence of some level of concern for community opinion. All I am asking is for the necessary time to be taken to finish the jobs, once started, so that I have good finished products to hold up as proof of what a great game developer can do.

[Wolfnrun]

8 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

 

Who, exactly, that was asking for a rework before and still uses Volt now, is happy? Are you saying that his numbers are balanced with other warframes? Because it sounds like you think things are good as they are.

Do you believe that a unidirectional shield is worth more than twice as much energy per second as invisibility, and a steal, and a modable headshot multiplier all in one?  You believe that a unidirectional shield should cost more than 2 exaulted weapons, and an evasion bonus, and a speed bonus, and the ability to stinking FLY (all rolled up into one)?!? You believe that a unidirectional shield, that only blocks about 90 degrees out of a full 360 and gives an unmodable bonus damages (mostly of a weak type), is powerful enough to deserve 4 seperate power inhibitors beyond energy cost over time (more than any other in the game) despite there being far better protective abilities that have no downsides beyond initial cost (which this also has in addition to the other cost over time)?

I keep hearing how DE listens to their players, but I can't help wondering if this only applies to the Design Council or is something that DE is pulling away from doing. I have personally defended DE as a company that listens to their players, but that was when they were talking about fixing problems and dealing with longstanding issues and before those changes were finalized and left with glaring holes and power issues. Now I have other things to look at, and I'm really not sure what to say while still being honest. I remember the Mirage Prism update and how even Mirage players were asking for it to be reduced to line of sight in exchange for a reduced casting time. The range was reduced but the one thing players asked and even begged for to keep the power balanced was completely ignored. I remember Mag players asking that her Polarize deal percentage based reductions rather than flat, because flat reductions quickly become meaningless against enemies that scale infinitely. Nothing has been changed. I see us being ignored, even about the undeniable issue of Riot Shield cost, despite it being months that it has been out. And that is before we even get a chance to start to talk about Volt's other issues. I remember how accepting Excalibur players were of the Exaulted Blade nerf, asking that the combo counter be added in (at least when attacking from normal mele range) so that it could scale with other mele weapons but not making that connected to the need for the range nerf. I saw Excalibur players complaining about the energy cost being given to their slide attacks when they would just rather the pseudo-"Radial Blind" gone. And then I saw those requests and complaints ignored completely. I remember old Archwing and how fun it was (despite horrible drops), and now I see a system that I can't even play because it makes me sick and still doesn't deal with the main issues that people had with the mode. You still insist on keeping the auto righting despite it being a MEDICAL ISSUE for goodness sake. I remember the passive ability additions and how many of them were useless at higher levels and at least one was actively detrimental, yet these things remained almost completely without change despite the feedback. I see massive Necros nerfs and worry about the care that will be given to those players pointing these things out considering what has been happening. And then I worry about Limbo and Zephyr and Oberon who are all badly in need of updates.

I'm reaching out to you here, DE. To @[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Danielle @[DE]Steve @[DE]Megan and/or anyone else at Digital Extremes who is willing to listen. I am trying to believe in you and defend you, but I need some more material to work with here. To be completely honest I would not have been the slightest bit upset if the Volt updates had been delayed a month or three or even six months so that the other updates could be ironed out first. At least then I could have had confidence that the job of finalizing and balancing the updates would have been finished. Update delays are FAR more acceptable than halfway finished updates. Don't get me wrong, there is still plenty of major story-line and other updates that can be done in the meantime, I'm not asking for production on these things to stop. All I'm asking is that the current issues be acknowledged and dealt with before devoting such time and energy to other things that the current issues are forgotten. When people tell me that a successful game company won't listen to their players, I very much want to point to DE and say that those people are wrong. I want to point out the issues that players have brought up as important and be able to say loudly that DE listened, cared, and did the work to fix the issues that players kept finding problematic. I want to be able to speak truthfully and authoritatively on how good a company this is because, believe me, if I lie people will be able to find evidence of that.

The only reason I am making this plea at all is because I do believe that there is some evidence that DE does try to listen to players, such as the recent Nulifier work. I don't want anyone to think that I don't recognize the good that is and could be here, the very fact that I am expending so much energy trying to get things done is proof that I think it isn't a lost cause. I recognize that focusing on those older frames and issues was, itself, evidence of some level of concern for community opinion. All I am asking is for the necessary time to be taken to finish the jobs, once started, so that I have good finished products to hold up as proof of what a great game developer can do.

Quoted for the truth!!!  @[DE]Steve @[DE]Rebecca Volt has more potenital as a glass cannon! Or whatever you see him as, starter or not he can not be neglected. Please spend all the time in the world making volt one powerful warrior from the past and expand on him as you did with Excalibur and mag Rework, volt is not done and we will not stop waiting and begging for more until our time has come!!! Our Lord lightning will arise!

[TenGaugeBoson]

Look Most of you guys are nuts.

Volt for Melee is better than all other frames at the moment....At least the way I play him.

Volt is King.

Volt is Above all.

15 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

I understand that he can be used to good effect, but you might understand more about what people are complaining about if you tried to use other warframes and compared what they are capable of with what Volt can actually do.  Let me give you an example by starting with what you wrote were good things to do with him.

#1= Naramon Mele

This can literally be done with any warframe, but Volt has an advantage because he has a mele buff. Compare this with any number of others who also have mele buffs, most of which do not require energy to use, or with other secondary buffs, and Volt immediately pales in comparison.  If you want to mele then you are better off with Ash, Excalibur, or Valkir. Ash has a passive damage buff on slash procs (so use a slashing weapon) and his other abilities include a way to jump immediately to enemies, making them vulnerable to mele finishers (which ignores both shields and all armor) and a way to immediately go invisible if his Narimon breaks. Excalibur gets a passive buff to all swords (being a passive buff means it requires no energy and is not badly affected by nulifiers) while he also has a jump, and ability that allows finishers on all enemies nearby, and a exaulted sword that can proc Narimon at range. Even if you feel like you absolutely need the mele buff that Volt has, Valkir is a better alternative. Her speed boost, when she uses her augment, can literally last forever and her exaulted weapon, with its 50% base crit chance that is affected by weapon augments, can immediately get you into the Naramon buff or heal you or give you invincibility to get away from a bad situation, etc. Volt's other abilities don't even help him deal damage in Narimon. What people are asking for that would affect this plan is a duration increase (which would decrease the need for a maximized duration down to just "increase duration somewhat") and a base speed increase. BTW, two of those three alternatives have higher base speed and all three have a way to close the gap, the increases would only serve to make him balanced with what others can do.

#2= Overshield with map-wide stun.

Volt actually can't do this. The spread mechanic on his #4 won't go through walls and won't travel far enough to get things on different levels. Furthermore increasing the range causes the stun to disappear very quickly (because of the damage cap). You do get good overshields when you don't get much of a stun. If you are going against armor you get a good stun but greatly reduced overshields. You know who is better at giving you defense and CC? Frost, Loki, Mag, Neza, Nyx, and Rhino. Literally every single frame with a large area CC ability and either an ability or an augment that gives defense. Nyx is the only one on the list that doesn't have hard CC (Hard CC= enemy can do literally nothing.) as her AoE CC causes enemies to attack each other, but her augment makes her completely immune to damage even as she attacks. Every one of the other's AoE CC abilities actually do work through walls, have a similar or higher effective range (after terrain is considered), and are less dependent on enemies in order to boost their own defense. If you are wondering why so many of us are asking for Discharge to be fixed, this is one example.

#3= Do a halfway job of both of the above.

Look previous explanations and split the difference. Then apply volt's below average defense, the necessity to be near the enemies to exasorbate that weakness, and he ends up being one of the weaker warframes.

Lets be honest, he isn't in the Limbo or Zephyr level of bad, but he is definately below average except for a few specific categories (as a Naramon user, for instance), but even then he doesn't measure up with the alternatives. He can also kill enemies quite effectively and feel really good, but he can't kill as well or as safely as a large number of other warframes.

 

 

Everything you said above....

I stay alive longer

Do more damage.

And bring more to a group than any of the frames and scenarios you mentioned.

Not to mention that running fast is the best thing to bring to any squad.

In my humble opinion....Volt is King...

Well the way I play him at least.

Maybe Ash or Ember can match my damage...but it isn't like it takes any skill to play either of those frames.

Ash is just watching a mission long finisher moves movie.

Ember is just an aura that kills as you can stand still till enemies hit level 30 or so.

Valkire brings nothing to a group she is a solo frame.

Excalibur isn't really a melee frame he is more a turret.

Look I don't wanna say to much cause like I said ....at the moment Volt is silly overpowered...I would hate for him to get nerfed.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

41 minutes ago, TenGaugeBoson said:

Look Most of you guys are nuts.

Volt for Melee is better than all other frames at the moment....At least the way I play him.

Volt is King.

Volt is Above all.

Everything you said above....

I stay alive longer

Do more damage.

And bring more to a group than any of the frames and scenarios you mentioned.

Not to mention that running fast is the best thing to bring to any squad.

In my humble opinion....Volt is King...

Well the way I play him at least.

Maybe Ash or Ember can match my damage...but it isn't like it takes any skill to play either of those frames.

Ash is just watching a mission long finisher moves movie.

Ember is just an aura that kills as you can stand still till enemies hit level 30 or so.

Valkire brings nothing to a group she is a solo frame.

Excalibur isn't really a melee frame he is more a turret.

Look I don't wanna say to much cause like I said ....at the moment Volt is silly overpowered...I would hate for him to get nerfed.

Volt or volt prime?

Riot shield of course is a gimmick you don't use.

And of course Volt is "overpowered". Now your straying into my field of crazy.

The "op" aspect is the tesla coil affect they added into the game for no real good reason and the sheild buff. The fact that volt is now easier to camp with, and in fact, seems to be encouraged to do so. It is a nice concept, but in practice, you are just stunlocking stuff with discharge the same way you can stun lock stuff with avalanche, but somehow avalanche feels like it does a better job....

I solo all my sorties the same way now. I sit behind my sheild, and I tesla coil stuff and watch everything from my throne, and then I confuse things with naramon when my passive fills up. And I have energy restores and health restores.

Volt with his rework alone should be great, I think the cc stun was a mistake, and I also think the way they implemented focus schools was a mistake. But the cheese is there for the taking, so why not?

[Wolfnrun]

1 hour ago, TenGaugeBoson said:

Look Most of you guys are nuts.

Volt for Melee is better than all other frames at the moment....At least the way I play him.

Volt is King.

Volt is Above all.

Volt is not soley for melee given the stat's at hand, many of volt's abilites would have be to all centerd around melee, and are they? NO! He would have an exalted weapon like excalibur and the rest that fall suit, We know melee volt IS viable but here's the thing, not everyone likes to melee and to have to rely on 1 ability to "be good" makes the rest of the abilites dull to use.  We already have enough melee diversity and plus, volt is a shielded frame, we would have more health if volt were a tank, anything that's a melee frame has lot's of health or armour, valkyr fits this, wukong with defy fits this,  can you go melee? Yes, SHOULD YOU HAVE TO GO MELEE? NO. EVERYTHING ELSE WOULD BE OVER-SHADOWED AS IT CURRENTLY IS!!! 

I'm not saying you shouldn't if you don't want to, I just don't think volt should be all about melee'ing everything, It works but I don't think volt should have to be worshipped upon because of that one capability 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Toramaru]

I'm an advocate for melee Volt, and even I don't think having that as the only option is a good thing.

As Volt is now, he's still subpar to many other Frames Melee-wise. as @EnderDDT already addressed, other Frames do what Volt does, but better. Considering Naramon is not even something you should, as an Hydroid can do that as well...

Looking at his kit I can't help but wonder how would it be to have 4 skills to use. I only ever use Speed as well...

[Cytobel]

10 hours ago, Toramaru said:

I'm an advocate for melee Volt, and even I don't think having that as the only option is a good thing.

As Volt is now, he's still subpar to many other Frames Melee-wise. as @EnderDDT already addressed, other Frames do what Volt does, but better. Considering Naramon is not even something you should, as an Hydroid can do that as well...

Looking at his kit I can't help but wonder how would it be to have 4 skills to use. I only ever use Speed as well...

Again, I ask if players that think the Volt rework was "good" play non-Speed builds by preference?

Do you like non-Speed Volt?  Is he "viable" in your estimation?

This is a thing because of the way Speed build excludes other skill use (for the most part).  At above 200% Strength you lose Efficiency, screwing your ability to recast, and building for massive Duration kills Range.  Without Effeciency, Range, and Duration Volt loses out on Shock, Discharge, and Electric Shield becomes a burden on your energy pool.

Seriously, isn't the thought that "everything's fine because of my lil' button build" an indication that things are in fact very wrong?

I'm not jumping people for their love of Speed, but instead how about this idea:  How would Volt work and how would you build him if Speed didn't exist?  Would you even play him?

If Speed is everything Volt does right, then he requires a proper rework.  Having only 25% of your abilities "work" means the other 75% don't.  Worse, his stats aren't set up for the melee mode Speed dictates.  That's poor design itself, and it also indicates further reworking is required.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Cytobel

[Cytobel]

Sorry for the B2B posts.

Dear @[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Danielle @[DE]Steve @[DE]Megan, etc., etc.,

I'm asking a simple answer here, but don't worry.  There are no right or wrong answers here.

Is Volt abandoned as is?  That is, is his "rework" no longer being looked at for any potential changes?

I'm asking this because I want to clarify whether or not anything more is going to come of this.  I'm tired, and I don't feel like arguing anymore about this.  I am adamant in my belief that the Volt rework didn't rework the most pressing issues with the 'Frame, and that we got gimmicks that more often than not get us into more trouble than before; nothing is going to change my mind about this now.

I understand that there are many things that are being looked at right now.  I know that recent reworks were hammered out, more are comming, and more content is headed this way.  I understand that Damage 3.0 looms in the back of people's minds (and probably haunts Scott's nightmares).  I get the idea that going back and looking things over when you just "finished" them isn't palatable (nothing that's done in art or a live video game is truely finished, only abandoned).

I get that there are important considerations on people's minds, it just sucks to feel like Volt is back in the trash can just after being spruced up and called good to go.

We would appreciate closure on this subject.  The suspense is ridiculous.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Cytobel
Too much is too much

[Wolfnrun]

35 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

Sorry for the B2B posts.

Dear @[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Danielle @[DE]Steve @[DE]Megan, etc., etc.,

I'm asking a simple answer here, but don't worry.  There are no right or wrong answers here.

Is Volt abandoned as is?  That is, is his "rework" no longer being looked at for any potential changes?

I'm asking this because I want to clarify whether or not anything more is going to come of this.  I'm tired, and I don't feel like arguing anymore about this.  I am adamant in my belief that the Volt rework didn't rework the most pressing issues with the 'Frame, and that we got gimmicks that more often than not get us into more trouble than before; nothing is going to change my mind about this now.

I understand that there are many things that are being looked at right now.  I know that recent reworks were hammered out, more are comming, and more content is headed this way.  I understand that Damage 3.0 looms in the back of people's minds (and probably haunts Scott's nightmares).  I get the idea that going back and looking things over when you just "finished" them isn't palatable (nothing that's done in art or a live video game is truely finished, only abandoned).

I get that there are important considerations on people's minds, it just sucks to feel like Volt is back in the trash can just after being spruced up and called good to go.

We would appreciate closure on this subject.  The suspense is ridiculous.

Is Volt trash forever?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Danielle @[DE]Steve @[DE]Megan You don't just see volt as just a starter or "that frame" do you? 

Edited August 30, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

bit heavy on the drama now aren't we?

"oh DE why have you forsaken us?" ... some of the emotional "us vs. them" rhethoric in here is downright bewildering tbqh. this game has myriads of construction sites, why would you think he's a priority now of all tmes with a fresh prime access at hand and a major update around the corner? yes, volt pretty much is warframe to me, too, but he's just one of dozens of frames which are one of hundreds of game aspects still in development...

that being said even with remaining qol issues he's so very far from being "starter trash", like... jeesh. other frames are in much more dire need of fixing (looking at ash eg)...

Edited August 30, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[LunarEdge7]

22 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

Bit heavy on the drama now aren't we?

-Snip-

Even with remaining QoL issues he's so very far from being "starter trash", like... jeesh. Other frames are in much more dire need of fixing (looking at ash e.g)...

I agree.

[voltocitygel]

9 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Again, I ask if players that think the Volt rework was "good" play non-Speed builds by preference?

Do you like non-Speed Volt?  Is he "viable" in your estimation?

This is a thing because of the way Speed build excludes other skill use (for the most part).  At above 200% Strength you lose Efficiency, screwing your ability to recast, and building for massive Duration kills Range.  Without Effeciency, Range, and Duration Volt loses out on Shock, Discharge, and Electric Shield becomes a burden on your energy pool.

Seriously, isn't the thought that "everything's fine because of my lil' button build" an indication that things are in fact very wrong?

I'm not jumping people for their love of Speed, but instead how about this idea:  How would Volt work and how would you build him if Speed didn't exist?  Would you even play him?

If Speed is everything Volt does right, then he requires a proper rework.  Having only 25% of your abilities "work" means the other 75% don't.  Worse, his stats aren't set up for the melee mode Speed dictates.  That's poor design itself, and it also indicates further reworking is required.

I do just fine with the current volt. In fact, I use everything but speed. I use speed only when I don't need energy and am heading to extraction, or on the occasion where I do use melee as my equipped weapon. (Most often I just use quick melee) I run 155 strength, 130 efficiency, 155 duration, and 100 range. It works quite well for me. Kills most things on ult (over time of course), along with a long stun, and over shields. Electric shield lasts for a minute or so, which is nice to defend yourself, others, and objectives. Shock does decent damage and a good interrupt for when you're reloading. 

I think people complain about his non speed abilities because they haven't tried the right builds. As you said, with that kind of strength you lose the ability to cast as often. 

People complain about lack of damage, but forget that discharge stuns now instead of just an electric proc. It stops literally anything in its tracks, including every boss I've tested it on. It's damage isn't even that bad. It's just delivered over time now instead of as a nuke. 

To sum things up, volt works quite well for me. He can compliment both melee and ranged playstyles, with some "caster" abilities as well. It's a good kit, but if you want to specialize you lose parts of your other three abilities. (That's the case with every warframe though. Build variety.) I balanced out my stats, and do quite well. 

[ThePredicament]

He's great where he's at, good balance utilities, defensive, and offensive capabilities. There are some little changes that should happen like either dropping the shield energy drain or timer and slightly buffing the reload rate but everything else is great.

[voltocitygel]

Just now, TheLocalHentai said:

He's great where he's at, good balance utilities, defensive, and offensive capabilities. There are some little changes that should happen like either dropping the shield energy drain or timer and slightly buffing the reload rate but everything else is great.

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

[Cytobel]

9 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

bit heavy on the drama now aren't we?

"oh DE why have you forsaken us?" ... some of the emotional "us vs. them" rhethoric in here is downright bewildering tbqh. this game has myriads of construction sites, why would you think he's a priority now of all tmes with a fresh prime access at hand and a major update around the corner? yes, volt pretty much is warframe to me, too, but he's just one of dozens of frames which are one of hundreds of game aspects still in development...

that being said even with remaining qol issues he's so very far from being "starter trash", like... jeesh. other frames are in much more dire need of fixing (looking at ash eg)...

I won't deny that there are other issues.  Some or all of these issues are more pressing.  Most of the remaining troubles are with significant QoL problems and discrepancies between role and build, etc.

I will point out that many of the issues could be glossed over for now if we got a "we'll look at it in a few months" response, rather than an "all's well" that blithely ignored general feedback.  Yeah, I get that many things are "better", but those little silent nerfs are an indicator that what was done happened only grudgingly.

Emotional?  Sure.  I get a bit maudlin at the end of work.  I need to recall the Golden Rule of posting: "THOU SHALT NOT POST WITH THINE HUMAN EMOTIONS ENABLED".  Except that we're also expected to be happy with this crap.  If the choices are to come across either whiney or aggressive, I prefer to avoid aggression.

At the same time many people saying "all's well" are following that with "~except for this small tiny thing we've all complained about", or some derevation.  The fact is that you're in the same boat I'm in: we feel like a few small tweaks need to be made.  I was willing to stick to the tiny changes when it seemed the Devs were willing to adjust the things they'd done that we felt were wrong.

Since then we've had multiple little tweaks that were NOT what we asked for (cooldowns added to Shock comes to mind) when all we as a community wanted was a usable Riot Shield (no, it isn't, not when it takes a Zenurik focus proc and energy siphon PLUS build to use the damn thing effeciently).

Think about this: we didn't really want a Riot Shield in the first place.  We wanted the new graphic for ES, we needed a few QoL changes to his stats and/or kit, and we needed the ability to kill things with our abilities.  What we got was the biggest energy pig in game, nerfs to Shock, an ult that had to be deliberately designed to be so unweildy (which then got an additional cooldown attached, for balance), and movement restrictions to Speed.

The worst part to me is that all I wanted, all that would've been needed to make me happy, was some SERIOUS QoL to Riot Shield (it's not toggled immortality, why does it cost MORE?), and an air-cast of Discharge.  That's it, 2 things.  I'm no longer limiting myself to those two things.

I'm calling bull on this because that's what it is.  Volt went around and around in the design washer, and he came out basically the same, but with more wrinkles in his play style.  This was at BEST a sidegrade.  If not for all of the little niggling things that were largely tacked on in total silence then this would be an upgrade.

P.S., be on the lookout for diminishing returns on Discharge.  I've had a few otherwise inexplicable moments occur recently.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

50 minutes ago, Cytobel said:

I won't deny that there are other issues.  Some or all of these issues are more pressing.  Most of the remaining troubles are with significant QoL problems and discrepancies between role and build, etc.

I will point out that many of the issues could be glossed over for now if we got a "we'll look at it in a few months" response, rather than an "all's well" that blithely ignored general feedback.  Yeah, I get that many things are "better", but those little silent nerfs are an indicator that what was done happened only grudgingly.

Emotional?  Sure.  I get a bit maudlin at the end of work.  I need to recall the Golden Rule of posting: "THOU SHALT NOT POST WITH THINE HUMAN EMOTIONS ENABLED".  Except that we're also expected to be happy with this crap.  If the choices are to come across either whiney or aggressive, I prefer to avoid aggression.

At the same time many people saying "all's well" are following that with "~except for this small tiny thing we've all complained about", or some derevation.  The fact is that you're in the same boat I'm in: we feel like a few small tweaks need to be made.  I was willing to stick to the tiny changes when it seemed the Devs were willing to adjust the things they'd done that we felt were wrong.

Since then we've had multiple little tweaks that were NOT what we asked for (cooldowns added to Shock comes to mind) when all we as a community wanted was a usable Riot Shield (no, it isn't, not when it takes a Zenurik focus proc and energy siphon PLUS build to use the damn thing effeciently).

Think about this: we didn't really want a Riot Shield in the first place.  We wanted the new graphic for ES, we needed a few QoL changes to his stats and/or kit, and we needed the ability to kill things with our abilities.  What we got was the biggest energy pig in game, nerfs to Shock, an ult that had to be deliberately designed to be so unweildy (which then got an additional cooldown attached, for balance), and movement restrictions to Speed.

The worst part to me is that all I wanted, all that would've been needed to make me happy, was some SERIOUS QoL to Riot Shield (it's not toggled immortality, why does it cost MORE?), and an air-cast of Discharge.  That's it, 2 things.  I'm no longer limiting myself to those two things.

I'm calling bull on this because that's what it is.  Volt went around and around in the design washer, and he came out basically the same, but with more wrinkles in his play style.  This was at BEST a sidegrade.  If not for all of the little niggling things that were largely tacked on in total silence then this would be an upgrade.

P.S., be on the lookout for diminishing returns on Discharge.  I've had a few otherwise inexplicable moments occur recently.

I second this so much. Air cast discharge specifically.

 

[LunarEdge7]

11 hours ago, voltocitygel said:

I do just fine with the current volt. In fact, I use everything but speed. I use speed only when I don't need energy and am heading to extraction, or on the occasion where I do use melee as my equipped weapon. (Most often I just use quick melee) I run 155 strength, 130 efficiency, 155 duration, and 100 range. It works quite well for me. Kills most things on ult (over time of course), along with a long stun, and over shields. Electric shield lasts for a minute or so, which is nice to defend yourself, others, and objectives. Shock does decent damage and a good interrupt for when you're reloading. 

I think people complain about his non speed abilities because they haven't tried the right builds. As you said, with that kind of strength you lose the ability to cast as often. 

People complain about lack of damage, but forget that discharge stuns now instead of just an electric proc. It stops literally anything in its tracks, including every boss I've tested it on. It's damage isn't even that bad. It's just delivered over time now instead of as a nuke. 

To sum things up, volt works quite well for me. He can compliment both melee and ranged playstyles, with some "caster" abilities as well. It's a good kit, but if you want to specialize you lose parts of your other three abilities. (That's the case with every warframe though. Build variety.) I balanced out my stats, and do quite well. 

Hmm, I should try that build. Any use of corrupted mods involved?

Also, I use speed for boosting melee attack speed AND fire rate if I need a lil' boost of DPS to get rid a tough enemy.