Valkyr Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Va1kyr]

32 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

 

It all depends on build, realy.

But it's rather hard to make Valkyr viable in all 4 abilities; or rather, the viability of the first 3 versus the viability of Hysteria.

If you wanna go with high Duration, you have to use Narrow Minded and sacrifice Range, which will then cripple Paralysis and the team + CC usefulness of Warcry. In other hand, the build I'm testing right now to check the viability of relying on Hysteria only as a last resort is showing to be exactly as it sounds: Hysteria becomes exactly a last resort, not to be used during long periods, but just to escape hard situations and eliminate specific kinds of crowd, while Ripline stays with full range (and thus full traversal capabilities), Paralysis triggers Finishers on more targets and Warcry allows me to slow and dispose of enemies more easily and in a wider radius. BUT that also cripples Hysteria to the ground, both in power and in Energy drain.

I'm yet to test it against high-level opponents or during extra-long survivals (I'll do some of those tests in a couple hours and then tomorrow), but from my experience, I kinda know what to expect: Valkyr's capabilities as a melee fighter will stop scaling well with Warcry and by that point, Hysteria won't have enough kick to destroy dangerous crowds without resorting to Channeling; which then will have a high chance of yielding the opposite effect: killing me faster.

DE, if you're reading this, please take all of this into consideration. This nerf just opened a huge can of worms, and I hope you're ready either to rollback the changes and stop to work better on it... or release a better rebuild fast.

I've been running the build your talking about for just about a year now... 172% strength, 60% effeciency, rage, eternal war. bring a powerblender weapon like nikana p, war, scindo p, or prisma dual cleavers.

 

too bad you also have to gimp your ult by using BC and BR. This nerf really #*($%%@ with hybrid builds 

[DoppelShifter]

25 minutes ago, DapperMasquerade said:

I've been running the build your talking about for just about a year now... 172% strength, 60% effeciency, rage, eternal war. bring a powerblender weapon like nikana p, war, scindo p, or prisma dual cleavers.

 

too bad you also have to gimp your ult by using BC and BR. This nerf really #*($%%@ with hybrid builds 

Actually the one I'm testing involves avoiding negatives altogether (Negative Power is out of question, negative Duration cripples Warcry, negative Range cripples Warcry and Paralysis and negative Efficiency makes Valkyr even more power-hungry).

In case you're wondering, I'm using this build:

Spoiler

The values in red and green are compared to my usual Hysteria build (which was already toned down a bit because I had to swap Blind Rage for Transient Fortitude, trading some Power Strength and Duration for Efficiency, which decreased initial costs and also the overall power drain from Hysteria, but also reduced uptime for Warcry).

With this build for my Nikana:

 

Also I don't have the BC+BR combo to use (check some posts ago how I mentioned how this nerf ruins everything for players without access to all the cool mods), so I'm going with the standard comp for Hysteria (Corrosive version), but switching the Crit mods for Life Strike and Focus Energy (so it can keep Channeling Efficiency in check and also increase Corrosive damage, since I won't be able to rely as much on crits).

Still, it's annoying how much you have to compromise. When you compare to a recent and more tightly designed frame, such as Inaros or Ivara, you don't have to compromise nearly as much (or anything at all) to make them viable with all of their abilities without relying so much on rare, expensive or costly mods. Heck, even older frames that had tighter reworks, such as Trinity, are super easy to use in the "All-Positive" build (Intensify, Continuity, Flow, Streamline, Stretch, Redirection, Vitality and a misc mod depending on the frame's individual needs), while still being viable in min-maxing builds (such as EV Trin and Knight Princess Trin).

Valkyr didn't need this. Valkyr needed a complete rework, focused on her essence, her theme and how her abilities can convey that both in normal game and in endgame. Instead, she got a nerf to Hysteria while she's still incredibly crippled in other aspects.

Just slap a Forma and try to level a Valkyr from scratch these days. Even Loki has an easier time than Valkyr, when he starts with Decoy and Valkyr starts with Ripline.

Edited May 29, 2016 by DoppelShifter
added my personal builds

[knightlol]

11 hours ago, Siideriu said:

ROFL. The tears are penetrating through your words. You haven't given a single line of evidence, yet all your posts are ad hominem attacks. Take a small break from the game.

• Valkyr's skill cap was extremely low. Basically a single button /God with no limits.
• God mode was fixed. They also had to prevent people from toggling it off the moment they come in contact with a skill-banishing shield.
• It's still beyond other melee frames. As demonstrated in the earlier video, energy won't be an issue. It's still immune to damage.

 

You Sir, are just an angry troll who didnt know how Valkyr worked late game. God Mod was fixed? No now its just sucide mode. Beyond other frames? How so? Wukong still has his god mode, his primal furry is not a single target melee weapon, it scales better and gets longer. Excal still has his broken waves of hell that still prevent nullies and all others from touching him, and he can still perma stun with raidal blind, Both Wukong and Excal have 4 decent abilities. No sir She is not better than The other melee frames you are just being a troll.

 

13 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

Actually the one I'm testing involves avoiding negatives altogether (Negative Power is out of question, negative Duration cripples Warcry, negative Range cripples Warcry and Paralysis and negative Efficiency makes Valkyr even more power-hungry).

In case you're wondering, I'm using this build:

  Hide contents

 

With this build for my Nikana:

 

Also I don't have the BC+BR combo to use (check some posts ago how I mentioned how this nerf ruins everything for players without access to all the cool mods), so I'm going with the standard comp for Hysteria (Corrosive version), but switching the Crit mods for Life Strike and Focus Energy (so it can keep Channeling Efficiency in check and also increase Corrosive damage, since I won't be able to rely as much on crits).

Still, it's annoying how much you have to compromise. When you compare to a recent and more tightly designed frame, such as Inaros or Ivara, you don't have to compromise nearly as much (or anything at all) to make them viable with all of their abilities without relying so much on rare, expensive or costly mods. Heck, even older frames that had tighter reworks, such as Trinity, are super easy to use in the "All-Positive" build (Intensify, Continuity, Flow, Streamline, Stretch, Redirection, Vitality and a misc mod depending on the frame's individual needs), while still being viable in min-maxing builds (such as EV Trin and Knight Princess Trin).

Valkyr didn't need this. Valkyr needed a complete rework, focused on her essence, her theme and how her abilities can convey that both in normal game and in endgame. Instead, she got a nerf to Hysteria while she's still incredibly crippled in other aspects.

Just slap a Forma and try to level a Valkyr from scratch these days. Even Loki has an easier time than Valkyr, when he starts with Decoy and Valkyr starts with Ripline.

Fully Agreee with your statement man, they need to give her a full rework before her prime drops. 

[Va1kyr]

17 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

Actually the one I'm testing involves avoiding negatives altogether (Negative Power is out of question, negative Duration cripples Warcry, negative Range cripples Warcry and Paralysis and negative Efficiency makes Valkyr even more power-hungry).

In case you're wondering, I'm using this build:

  Hide contents

 

With this build for my Nikana:

 

Also I don't have the BC+BR combo to use (check some posts ago how I mentioned how this nerf ruins everything for players without access to all the cool mods), so I'm going with the standard comp for Hysteria (Corrosive version), but switching the Crit mods for Life Strike and Focus Energy (so it can keep Channeling Efficiency in check and also increase Corrosive damage, since I won't be able to rely as much on crits).

Still, it's annoying how much you have to compromise. When you compare to a recent and more tightly designed frame, such as Inaros or Ivara, you don't have to compromise nearly as much (or anything at all) to make them viable with all of their abilities without relying so much on rare, expensive or costly mods. Heck, even older frames that had tighter reworks, such as Trinity, are super easy to use in the "All-Positive" build (Intensify, Continuity, Flow, Streamline, Stretch, Redirection, Vitality and a misc mod depending on the frame's individual needs), while still being viable in min-maxing builds (such as EV Trin and Knight Princess Trin).

Valkyr didn't need this. Valkyr needed a complete rework, focused on her essence, her theme and how her abilities can convey that both in normal game and in endgame. Instead, she got a nerf to Hysteria while she's still incredibly crippled in other aspects.

Just slap a Forma and try to level a Valkyr from scratch these days. Even Loki has an easier time than Valkyr, when he starts with Decoy and Valkyr starts with Ripline.

Not having BR+BC hurt a ton yah, at least they'll find there way back though. really you have the right idea, I just drop intensify for blind rage r8, the efficiency loss is offset by rage pretty easily, then you can run Zenurick if yah want, even though Naramon is obviously a better choice. I also use Vigor instead of streamline, squeezing out those HP points if important when you have 3k armor.

now you can obviously see why Hysteria's energy drain change #*($%%@ me. Now normally I'd adjust my build and move on, but the nerf was implemented to try and address perma-hysteria, which i wasn't running, in the first place and the nerf didnt even stop people from never turnng Hysteria off.

I'd also like to point out while this change did hurt my Hysteria's viability, this build still wrecks face with War regardless

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by DapperMasquerade

[knightlol]

1 minute ago, DapperMasquerade said:

Not having BR+BC hurt a ton yah, at least they'll find there way back though. really you have the right idea, I just drop intensify for blind rage r8, the efficiency loss is offset by rage pretty easily, then you can run Zenurick if yah want, even though Naramon is obviously a better choice. I also use Vigor instead of streamline, squeezing out those HP points if important when you have 3k armor.

now you can obviously see why Hysteria's energy drain change #*($%%@ me. Now normally I'd adjust my build and move on, but the nerf was implemented to try and address perma-hysteria, which i wasn't running, in the first place and the nerf didnt even stop people from never turnng Hysteria off.

 

 

Agreed, people are still finding ways to Perma Hysteria. But Hybrid builds which most experinced valk players run are really screwed here. The build I run tries to keep everything at a decent amount. Just really hurting due to the bubble range. 

[DoppelShifter]

14 minutes ago, DapperMasquerade said:

Not having BR+BC hurt a ton yah, at least they'll find there way back though. really you have the right idea, I just drop intensify for blind rage r8, the efficiency loss is offset by rage pretty easily, then you can run Zenurick if yah want, even though Naramon is obviously a better choice. I also use Vigor instead of streamline, squeezing out those HP points if important when you have 3k armor.

now you can obviously see why Hysteria's energy drain change #*($%%@ me. Now normally I'd adjust my build and move on, but the nerf was implemented to try and address perma-hysteria, which i wasn't running, in the first place and the nerf didnt even stop people from never turnng Hysteria off.

 

 

Also that's an important point: you shouldn't be having to rely on your Focus School to compensate for a specific frame (even though I do run Vazarin in part because my main warframes, Valkyr and Zephyr, lack in team healing capabilities -- but I also run Vazarin because of the increased affinity radius, ress and reflect, since I'm more than often slapping forma on stuff or leveling new weapons and frames).

And yeah, it's like a lot of people are mentioning here: lots of people (me included) are still managing to run almost-perma-Hysteria even after the changes, and the only thing that's really annoying (aside from the invisibilization of Hybrid builds) is the "instagib bubble" (because c'mon, who had the great idea of making a 20m-range suicide-bubble for an ability that not only relies a lot on close-range combat both for damage and sustain, but also puts the frame in added risk of running into stuff that cancel Hysteria, such as dropping from the map, going face-to-face with Energy Leech Eximi and so on). Also if the idea of the ramp-up cost was to educate us into going in-and-out of Hysteria, the instagib-bubble sure is not fitting well with that philosophy.

One weird thing, though: I ran a mission against Corpus using my Hysteria build, and I got canceled by more than one Scrambus, Nullifiers and some Bursae, and the actual nullifying didn't trigger the damage kickback; though one time I ran out of energy, survived the kickback but that almost killed my Carrier.
...What did kill me, though, was when a Scrambus hit me with a nullifying aura, I got dropped out of Hysteria, the gate in front of me opened and I was greeted by a supra burst from a Corpus Tech. Insta-killed, like the good low-shield-meaningless-health Valkyr that I am. Sure something seems pretty wrong here.

Edited May 29, 2016 by DoppelShifter

[knightlol]

16 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

Also that's an important point: you shouldn't be having to rely on your Focus School to compensate for a specific frame (even though I do run Vazarin in part because my main warframes, Valkyr and Zephyr, lack in team healing capabilities -- but I also run Vazarin because of the increased affinity radius, ress and reflect, since I'm more than often slapping forma on stuff or leveling new weapons and frames).

And yeah, it's like a lot of people are mentioning here: lots of people (me included) are still managing to run almost-perma-Hysteria even after the changes, and the only thing that's really annoying (aside from the invisibilization of Hybrid builds) is the "instagib bubble" (because c'mon, who had the great idea of making a 20m-range suicide-bubble for an ability that not only relies a lot on close-range combat both for damage and sustain, but also puts the frame in added risk of running into stuff that cancel Hysteria, such as dropping from the map, going face-to-face with Energy Leech Eximi and so on). Also if the idea of the ramp-up cost was to educate us into going in-and-out of Hysteria, the instagib-bubble sure is not fitting well with that philosophy.

One weird thing, though: I ran a mission against Corpus using my Hysteria build, and I got canceled by more than one Scrambus, Nullifiers and some Bursae, and the actual nullifying didn't trigger the damage kickback; though one time I ran out of energy, survived the kickback but that almost killed my Carrier.
...What did kill me, though, was when a Scrambus hit me with a nullifying aura, I got dropped out of Hysteria, the gate in front of me opened and I was greeted by a supra burst from a Corpus Tech. Insta-killed, like the good low-shield-meaningless-health Valkyr that I am. Sure something seems pretty wrong here.

Yea She has way to low shields and way to average health to be dropping out of hysteria like that. A way to help would be to increase her base health to somethig much higher. And maybe even shields now. 

[DoppelShifter]

14 minutes ago, knightlol said:

Yea She has way to low shields and way to average health to be dropping out of hysteria like that. A way to help would be to increase her base health to somethig much higher. And maybe even shields now. 

I run on max Vitality, for better synergy with Rage. Raising shields is a wasted mod slot on Valkyr, since Redirection will only raise it to 370, almost the same as a lot of unmodded frames (actually LOWER than a few, such as Zephyr and normal Mag).

Like I mentioned on a previous post, if Valkyr could actually accumulate some sort of overshielding, or at least had something to help with damage avoidance while outside Hysteria (other than the costly Warcry, which in the end is just more Armor scaling, which I'll mention in the next paragraph), that would be great. But as she is right now, even the basic shooting session will chip away her health pretty quickly, even though she has that hefty 600 base armor.

Basically, the current endgame escalation outpaces our Warframes' HP and armor escalation by far, and only damage avoidance (Turbulence, Shatter Shield, Overshielding...) and invulnerability (Link, Blessing, Iron Scale, Hysteria...) scale well enough to keep up with that.

So instead of having an agile and armored berserker cat that dances around the battlefield while soaking/avoiding damage and shredding enemies, we have a sick kitty that either goes full god-mode, or dies quite easily on pretty trivial firefights.

Edited May 29, 2016 by DoppelShifter

[knightlol]

Agreed, I would really appreciate a full rework, but one thing ive been notticing. Is the hypocrytical tone, in DE since they fully endorse things like Defy, or Inaross crazy Scaling, or even Chromas Scaling. I would like it if they took a more balanced approached.

As far as her current play, I agreee over sheilds or something would be a ton of help. Or even someway to lower the instagib bubble via some sortof method. Not like perma lower, but something like doing X will lower its range by X kinda thing.

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by knightlol

[ashrah]

idk how ppl play valkyr but i use most war cry... and hysteria only if i need to rev someone...will test today....in t4 suv....

[mrrobotto67]

To me the second change to hysteria is something that they should change. instead of that bubble thing, after casting hysteria you should suffer a movement debuff for X seconds depending on how much you have used the ability (to me should be capped at 5 seconds ... and that is massive) and by movement debuff something like the speed movement you suffer when you equip the hobbled dragon key but also without being able to bullet jump. to me that makes more sense that what you got going on right now

[Rhaenxys]

From my point of view there isnt too much to change, only the aura range, considering most maps are small or medium size 20 meters is too big for this type of game when you are pretty much surrounded by enemies all the time, after a bit of testing i consider 10 meters a better value.

[(PSN)PlanetWanze69]

Pls noo 

 

valkyre is my Love  and now i Hate valkyre 

 

she is usless and make no Fun Play with she 

 

 

Hysterie Need to MUCH Energie !!!!!

this Make me cry !!!!!!!

this make no Fun !!!! 

[Rhennie]

I love my Valkyr and i have not had really any problems with the change but one thing i would like is something to pop up around the crosshair telling you something like "Yo your energy is low you might wanna do something about that" at like 15-20% energy while in Hysteria.

[Thaumatos]

How many times did I try to tell you guys that Hysteria was OP?

How many times? ... Go ahead...check my history.

 

This isn't news to me.  It isn't news to anyone with half a brain actually...

 

I foresee more Hysteria nerfs in the future btw...just because the current changes can be exploited via running into a corner before losing all energy.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

I had a quick survival run, 179 dur , streamline ( +30 ) and a +50 eff fleeting, after 6 mins just taking hits i started to kill to get energy orbs, left at 30 mins surv cus of boredom, no noticeable changes compared to the pre " nerf ", never went out of god mod, never run out of en, never noticed damage mitigations falls off...to me it was basically like it's always been. It was a grineer missions, then i did a simulacrum and tried to hit 200+K damage to see if those limitations were triggered by storing a certain amount of dmg and nothing.After that went against infested, and it was just like before, leechers were a nuisance before but that so called energy drain boost never applied in otherwise normal conditions.20 mins run and exit. Is there anything i'm missing? I was curious to check this infamous energy drain change but i didn't see anything new regarding major energy drain limiting the  GOD-MODE duration with that same eff build i was using before the update....

Maybe it's a bug and this energy drain isn't triggered when the total of efficiency mods exceeds 175 ? cus in the stats it always shows max 175 but technically what i had was 100+30+50 ( 180 )...

Edited May 29, 2016 by arm4geddon-117

[ReshyShira]

1 hour ago, Thaumatos said:

How many times did I try to tell you guys that Hysteria was OP?

How many times? ... Go ahead...check my history.

 

This isn't news to me.  It isn't news to anyone with half a brain actually...

 

I foresee more Hysteria nerfs in the future btw...just because the current changes can be exploited via running into a corner before losing all energy.

Except that it's not overpowered, and these changes don't fix any of the alleged problems while making Valkyr as a whole less viable and reliable.

[Ryddem]

This was NOT what anyone asked for, you didnt do anything but make her more undesireable and this should not be the goal of "balancing", to nerf it to the point of where you dont want to use it. 

As a devoted Valkyr player i will gently push her aside untill they compensate her other abillities, even though i mainly play e-war i feel this was a low blow to valkyr's skill-set. She's now a beserker frame that'll get one-shotet in relevant content like everyother frame.

[ReshyShira]

24 minutes ago, Ryddem said:

This was NOT what anyone asked for, you didnt do anything but make her more undesireable and this should not be the goal of "balancing", to nerf it to the point of where you dont want to use it. 

As a devoted Valkyr player i will gently push her aside untill they compensate her other abillities, even though i mainly play e-war i feel this was a low blow to valkyr's skill-set. She's now a beserker frame that'll get one-shotet in relevant content like everyother frame.

It's DE's design methodology is, unfortunately, "Make everything equally bad."

Edited May 29, 2016 by ReshyShira

[tomrair]

Well 18.13 and it's changes leave me with one very simple question:

What is Valkyr good for now?

Endless solo runs are off the table, that's something that any frame with Naramon and a high crit melee weapon can do. And that leaves exactly nothing for Valkyr. Ripline is superfluous since we've got Parcours 2.0. Warcry is being outperformed by Rhino's Roar, Paralysis by Frost's Avalanche and Rhino's Stomp. And now Hysteria is short and more often than not suicidal. It is not shielding you from damage any more, it's just postponing taking the damage.

If DE wanted to stop Hysteria from being an endless God-Mode (which, by the way, it was not), then ramping up the energy cost would have been enough. But stopping the "suicide aura" from scaling with ability range and giving it a 40m diameter, that's just going too far.

Seriously - why would I play Valkyr ever again?

 

EDIT: Thinking about it, there would have been many better ways of stopping Hysteria from being OP. For example, after a certain time in Hysteria you could have begun to loose HP from wearing yourself out, so you would have had to do damage permanently to keep yourself healed via Lifesteal. That's just an idea, of ocurse, that would need to be tested, but the solution that DE chose in 18.13 feels cheap and uninspired.

Edited May 29, 2016 by tomrair

[Rhaenxys]

1 hour ago, tomrair said:

Well 18.13 and it's changes leave me with one very simple question:

What is Valkyr good for now?

Endless solo runs are off the table, that's something that any frame with Naramon and a high crit melee weapon can do. And that leaves exactly nothing for Valkyr. Ripline is superfluous since we've got Parcours 2.0. Warcry is being outperformed by Rhino's Roar, Paralysis by Frost's Avalanche and Rhino's Stomp. And now Hysteria is short and more often than not suicidal. It is not shielding you from damage any more, it's just postponing taking the damage.

If DE wanted to stop Hysteria from being an endless God-Mode (which, by the way, it was not), then ramping up the energy cost would have been enough. But stopping the "suicide aura" from scaling with ability range and giving it a 40m diameter, that's just going too far.

Seriously - why would I play Valkyr ever again?

 

EDIT: Thinking about it, there would have been many better ways of stopping Hysteria from being OP. For example, after a certain time in Hysteria you could have begun to loose HP from wearing yourself out, so you would have had to do damage permanently to keep yourself healed via Lifesteal. That's just an idea, of ocurse, that would need to be tested, but the solution that DE chose in 18.13 feels cheap and uninspired.

Well i agree on some points, ripline should at the very least do a forced slash proc, warcry is good as it is, is a pretty solid ability for melee based frames, paralysis needs more base range.

The only problem now with hysteria is the penalization aura, in most maps and situations is nearly impossible to not have at least one enemy inside the radius, also, using narrow minded doesnt reduce the aura but it has a negative effect on the other three abilities, that is bad design in my opinion.

They have two options, leave the current 20m aura but affected by narrow minded (would be 8 meters i think) or reduce the aura to 10 meters unaffected by narrow minded.

[Tsunero]

If they are really going to leave it in its current state at least make it that ALL melee mods work in Hysteria so it can take advantage of melee 2.0 properly... You know, since she is a dedicated melee frame.... And no, finishers and ground finishers shouldn't be the only viable way to kill lvl 100 stuff and many enemies can't even be killed that way.

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Momo93

[knightlol]

Honestly yea they cannot leave her n this state it kills any uses she has. Every other frame can do what she can but better. It makes it redudent to even try her now. 

[SenorClipClop]

On 5/27/2016 at 6:42 PM, Momo93 said:

I did a test with Narrow Minded and Primed Flow alone. Before the nerf I was able to stay in Hysteria for 3 mins and 20 seconds (didn't do anything).

After the nerf I was only able to stay in Hysteria for one minute (again I didn't do anything).

Tenno, that's kind of the point. The whole reason DE changed how Valkyr's ultimate works is because staying in Hysteria all the time is not how DE envisions Valkyr to work. She's a scrappy, high-risk fighter with giant health and the highest Armor value in the game, and staying in permanent god-mode takes advantage of none of these important aspects. Furthermore, if a player uses Hysteria all the time, they will remain at full health, which renders moot the substantial lifesteal built into the ability.

Hysteria is ideally used in short bursts when Valkyr is close to death and needs to recover her health. Try spending your energy on Paralysis for disables and Warcry for heaps of extra damage instead while you're fresh, let the enemies slowly chunk you down and then pop into Hysteria to get back up to full. While this can be a challenge at the very tippy top levels of enemies, realistically you and your weapons should be strong enough to handle these without invincibility and skilled enough already to avoid nullifiers, or you're playing at too high level and need to extract.

This change also adds (or rather re-adds) a conditional for letting Valkyr use Hysteria. Now when she deactivates the ability, she suffers damage if enemies are within her vicinity. Essentially the game is saying, "yes, you can become invincible and unleash godly damage on your foes, but you can't do it for too long, and you better kill everything". This turns Hysteria from the afk/easymode ability it was into a buff that offers an additional challenge to Valkyr players, who now have to manage their energy more responsibly and plan their attack instead of just running around mashing E. Before the last time Hysteria was tweaked (sometime in U17 I think), it ran for a set duration and had a similar self-damage penalty for leaving enemies alive. This made Valkyr players use the ability more strategically than after its update into a toggle ult with no downsides. I'm happy to see that's back. Maybe now we'll see more conscious Valkyrs out there.

[PanWojtek]

Finally

Edited May 29, 2016 by PanWojtek