Forma changes are a good thing

[alfaomega04]

I really liked this change. Granted, I'm currently at MR21 so I can basically use all my main mods on new or newly forma'ed things. I can forma my main weapons and go right in into a t4def and still be able to dps just like everyone else and not have to be dead weight. 

HOWEVER, the big complaint I have is about the frames. I expected we would also be able to use our powers based on the MR just like the mod points now instantly applied.

So I forma'ed my mag, jump into a mission with a full complement of mods and SURPRISE! I can't use anything but Pull XD So annoying. I mean what's the point of having full efficiency with max prime flow along with stretch and all the other main mods if we cannot use our powers. Other than that, like I said above, I really appreciate the change. 

[Magneu]

4 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

Ok, so now you've got 20 mod points.  Again, big deal.  Who in their right mind would go out to level a 20 mod point weapon with a 20 mod point weapon.  That's idiotic and incredibly slow.  I'm a MR21 so I'll have 42 points on most of my weapons.  Will I use the newly formaed weapon to level itself?  Oh hell no.  That's too slow.  I'll bring along my 6 or 7 formaed soma or boltor to level up my level 0 sonicor.

Using the newly formaed weapon to level itself up is slow.  Slow.  Slow.  Don't do it.

Went on a forma spree with the Kulstar, and when playing a CC frame like Vauban, I was able to get it from 0-30 in a single round of Draco with a booster. At MR21, with a potatoe 42 mod points is rather significant...especially when you consider polarities. 

The gun became more and more effective at rank zero the more I formaed it. Definitely sped up the process. Hell, I even bought 100p worth of formas cause my supplies couldn't keep up!

[Troll_Logic]

50 minutes ago, DuskLegendary said:

I honestly don't get why I saw some people being opposed to this idea. What are the down sides to this, does it trivialize the gameplay to you? This is directed at those who don't like the upcoming Forma changes by the way.

I don't think anyone is against it and I don't think there are any downsides.  Once the change has been thought through, it is a lateral change.  No good nor bad.

50 minutes ago, DuskLegendary said:

To me this is fantastic because: MR that I pointlessly grinded for now has a bit more meaning to it, as I get rewarded for being a higher MR. I get to camp at Draco less now to max out my gear that I want to immediately use in higher tier content. For me, that's 17 levels I don't have to slosh through, and that's just great. 

But you don't.  Let me try to explain it a different way.

Let's say you forma a catalysted weapon and you're at MR11.  You now have 22 mod points to use.  You add a few mods to the weapon.  Now your weapon is the same as if you leveled it the old way to level 11.  They both now have the same mod point capacity and you still shouldn't use either to level.  You should still be using a pimped out weapon.

DE giving player bonus mods points on a 0 weapon doesn't make it a viable weapon to use.  It simply makes it a less gimpy weapon but it still is a gimpy weapon.  And the player still has to level the weapon up each time.

 

To level, the player has to get experience.

To get experience, the player has to cause damage.

Between using a maxed out weapon or a gimped weapon, even less gimped with the new bonus mod points, the maxed out weapon will always significantly outdamage the gimped weapon.

Even though the new bonus mod points are nice, they still don't change the optimum leveling path.

 

It's not a good change.  It's not a bad change.  It's just a change that, in the game, will not really change anything.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Troll_Logic

[Troll_Logic]

5 minutes ago, Magneu said:

I was able to get it from 0-30 in a single round of Draco with a booster.

With a booster I'd certainly hope so.

5 minutes ago, Magneu said:

The gun became more and more effective at rank zero the more I formaed it. Definitely sped up the process. Hell, I even bought 100p worth of formas cause my supplies couldn't keep up!

Well, yes and no.  You have to look at what you're doing.  You're going into a mission with a 0 level weapon and goosing it with a booster.  Now the weapon is fully leveling while you are in the mission, but you are still using a 42 mod weapon the entire mission.  You just happen to be in a mission where those 42 mod points can carry you to the end.

5 minutes ago, Magneu said:

 

[DuskLegendary]

22 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I don't think anyone is against it and I don't think there are any downsides.  Once the change has been thought through, it is a lateral change.  No good nor bad.

But you don't.  Let me try to explain it a different way.

Let's say you forma a catalysted weapon and you're at MR11.  You now have 22 mod points to use.  You add a few mods to the weapon.  Now your weapon is the same as if you leveled it the old way to level 11.  They both now have the same mod point capacity and you still shouldn't use either to level.  You should still be using a pimped out weapon.

DE giving player bonus mods points on a 0 weapon doesn't make it a viable weapon to use.  It simply makes it a less gimpy weapon but it still is a gimpy weapon.  And the player still has to level the weapon up each time.

It's not a good change.  It's not a bad change.  It's just a change that, in the game, will not really change anything.

Ooooooh, it looks like I misunderstood somewhere along the way. Yes, once you put it like that, these changes do seem kind of.. meh. As you said, not really good or really bad. But I must admit, after the can of worms that have been open the past few days, this is still relatively okay news all in all, at least until we get to the juicy stuff: Those sexy sexy enemy scaling fixes ;p

Edited June 2, 2016 by DuskLegendary

[TheLexiConArtist]

@Troll_Logic

Kills with a weapon distribute half of that affinity to the killer's Warframe and half to the exact weapon that the killer used. Kills with non-weapons distribute the full affinity to their Warframe.

The only sources of weapon experience that do not come from using the weapon are:

• Kills from other squadmates (shared affinity)
• Non-kill affinity events, such as:
  • Affinity 'Orbs'
  • Challenges (e.g. 10 Headshots, 5 Slide-kills)
  • Mission objectives (e.g. Spy data retrieval)
  • Hacking

The change is okay (and means those of us who do like to use their Forma weapons to level them back up can do so at something above tower 1 out of the gate), but it is not good enough.

There is still no fix to the disincentive to using Forma in the first place due to lack of futureproofing, inflexibility and the potential for wasted effort if something does happen (like reworks or new mods) that requires many-Forma'd items to have polarities be overwritten.

 

Frankly, I'd rather have that (and maybe actually make some use out of the hundred spare Forma that rolled off the production line) than have this change.

Edited June 2, 2016 by EDYinnit
Affinity orbs aren't really orbs any more. Affinity octohedrons?

[bubbabenali]

While it's very nice to have some modding potential with a freshly formaed weapon, the time to forma it again is still the same.

So ppl who just want to max their equipment will still book a ticket to Draco and won't even notice that they could put some mods into the weapon already.

[Gilmaesh]

i like the change so far, it's already a good start, we'll probably see less players painfully trying to kill one mob with their un-ranked weapons.

But like others said, it won't be enough to make people stop using drako.

I think everyone wanted : your starting capacity + the weapon starting level = your MR.

But lets be honest drako will still be used even with that, and focus is still there anyway.

3 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

The mission I just ran says otherwise.

you probably got xp for your hek with the mission challenge + affinity orb + capturing the tower.

 

[Cloud]

7 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

 

Using your level 0 rifle with serration on it will level the rifle slower than using your pimped out sonicor to level the rifle.

 

Man, you seriously don't know that using a gun will give u only the exp on that gun and warframe? If you achieve exp on others weapons is because you get the shared affinity from others players which is splitted among the frame and the weapon arsenal.... study how affinity works instead of giving lecture to others.

[Troll_Logic]

4 hours ago, Gilmaesh said:

you probably got xp for your hek with the mission challenge + affinity orb + capturing the tower.

If that were true, then why didn't I get the same amount of exp on the hek during both missions?

[Troll_Logic]

3 hours ago, LordCloud00 said:

Man, you seriously don't know that using a gun will give u only the exp on that gun and warframe? If you achieve exp on others weapons is because you get the shared affinity from others players which is splitted among the frame and the weapon arsenal....

Tough to get shared affinity from others when I played those three test missions solo.

I wasn't 100% sure so I ran those solo missions.

3 hours ago, LordCloud00 said:

study how affinity works instead of giving lecture to others.

The irony is is rich.

[Gilmaesh]

7 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

If that were true, then why didn't I get the same amount of exp on the hek during both missions?

Some challenges are worth less than other, maybe you didn't even completed one, you got less affinity orb, you had to capture tower multiple times.

There could be many reasons.

[Keltik0ne]

It's really buggy right now, I forma'd my mesa and a secondary, loaded up with mods, joined a mission to find both were rank 0 and unmodded still.

[ashrah]

4 minutes ago, Keltik0ne said:

It's really buggy right now, I forma'd my mesa and a secondary, loaded up with mods, joined a mission to find both were rank 0 and unmodded still.

hotfix soon....but its definitlly step in right direction. less grind more content

[Keltik0ne]

2 minutes ago, ashrah said:

hotfix soon....but its definitlly step in right direction. less grind more content

Actually, it's the same amount of grind, you still need to level the weapon fully or your stuck with your MR level in mod points. Trolls right on that.

[Myscho]

IF fresh stuff gets same rank as player MR, there will be problem with syndicate or event weapons becuase unranked rule

[Sargeant_Q]

I love the change.  Because i actually use the weapon i am leveling up to see if i like it.

[Keltik0ne]

8 minutes ago, Myscho said:

IF fresh stuff gets same rank as player MR, there will be problem with syndicate or event weapons becuase unranked rule

It doesn't, the weapon is still rank 0, you get your MR in mod points until the weapon level goes above the MR, then you get the real level points.

[Myscho]

1 minute ago, Keltik0ne said:

It doesn't, the weapon is still rank 0, you get your MR in mod points until the weapon level goes above the MR, then you get the real level points.

I know, but im talking about the change which more players like, fresh weapon/warframe rank = MR, not the mod capacity = MR. There will be problem with trading

[Keltik0ne]

Ah, gotcha. I suspect thats why we have this, since they probably couldn't get the other way working with trading etc.

[Vox_Preliator]

How could anyone complain about this?  It is undeniably an improvement.  Sure it doesn't directly reduce the grind, but since you can use Rank 0 weapons and actually kill things with them the leveling should go faster because they directly receive affinity.  The only way this wouldn't affect you would be if you only level Forma'd things through high-value shared affinity sources (like Spy missions) or solely through co-op shared affinity.

5 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

If that were true, then why didn't I get the same amount of exp on the hek during both missions?

Did you get a significant amount of affinity on the Hek?  Enough to reach Rank 30 in a reasonable amount of time?  Because usually my unused weapons generally only accrue a pittance compared to the one I'm actually using.

[ImmortalGryphon]

17 hours ago, Cryostasisprotoss said:

I disagree, lets take your example a mr 10  will have 10 mod slot right? But what if he put a catalyst? Thats 10 more slot in there  you would be able to put more than one mod in there. More if you already forma`ed.

You have overall easier level up because you can use the weapon. Every weapon no matter how bad it is can kill enemies in the starchart.

 

Aa also if you forma a melee or a warframe its even easier because of aura and stance.

Plus Special weapons can remain tradable this way due to the fact they need to be unranked and no catalyst installed.

[Troll_Logic]

3 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

How could anyone complain about this?  It is undeniably an improvement. 

I don't think anyone is complaining about it unless they are complaining that it doesn't go far enough.  I guess it is an improvement of sorts, but like I mentioned before, it takes a gimped weapon and makes it slightly less gimped.  The player shouldn't be using a gimped weapon to level anyway.

3 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Did you get a significant amount of affinity on the Hek?  Enough to reach Rank 30 in a reasonable amount of time?  Because usually my unused weapons generally only accrue a pittance compared to the one I'm actually using.

The hek went from 21.5 to almost 22.5.  That was soloing one wave on Draco using only a sonicor with no warframe abilities and no sentinel.

[TheLexiConArtist]

29 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

The hek went from 21.5 to almost 22.5.  That was soloing one wave on Draco using only a sonicor with no warframe abilities and no sentinel.

 

Neutralising an Interception point: 300 Affinity

Capturing first, second or third point: 300 Affinity

Capturing fourth point for Domination: 500 Affinity.

 

Minimum affinity for neutralising then capturing 4 points: (300*4*2)+200 = 2600 affinity.

Mission Challenges add 1000 to 5000 affinity depending on the challenge.

 

There's up to 7600 affinity already. Add 800 more every time an enemy captures and you recapture (or 600 if they get more than one down before you recapture the last point)

Non-kill affinity can add up more than you realise.

Edited June 3, 2016 by EDYinnit
tonal shift

[Troll_Logic]

1 minute ago, EDYinnit said:

 

Neutralising an Interception point: 300 Affinity

Capturing first, second or third point: 300 Affinity

Capturing fourth point for Domination: 500 Affinity.

 

Minimum affinity for neutralising then capturing 4 points: (300*4*2)+200 = 2600 affinity.

Mission Challenges add 1000 to 5000 affinity depending on the challenge.

 

There's up to 7600 affinity already. Add 800 more every time an enemy captures and you recapture (or 600 if they get more than one down before you recapture the last point). It adds up more than you realise, doesn't it?

Maybe.  But as I mentioned before, I did the exact same solo mission with the exact same equipment except I used blade storm to kill everything and didn't use a weapon.  I received maybe 5% of the affinity that I received before.  I didn't have to recapture the points as often as before because blade storm kills everything, but the hek affinity difference was dramatic.