Lunaro Feedback [Megathread]

[Ax0r]

Checking is out of control and needs to be removed or limited really badly. I've played several matches of Lunaro daily and I can assure every pub match has that one guy who makes it his primary objective to bully the players on the enemy team with agressive stunlocking. Goalies are especially popular targets. DE please just end this already, Lunaro is unplayable like this.

[Kitzun]

Two things:

-it is a knockdown game, nothing else, you simply win by having your opponents on the ground, no play construction is allowed and it makes the game uninteresting.

-the teams are awfully unbalanced and it make the game disheartening and uninteresting, all games ending as 2-10 is not fun.

[Podge]

i got on last night and played lunaro for a few hours. i have one complaint: movement feels too limited for me. one of the big reasons i enjoy playing the game because you have so many options for traversal. in lunaro, you have running, and jumping. you have no walls to run across, no platforms, just a flat plane. and not even a big one. the size of the arena kinda works for how fast you move, but you're moving at what feels like a snails pace. which doesn't really fit in with the whole "fast paced, action-y sport" thing. i think it would be much more fun to play if the arena was larger, and incorporated the ability to use parkour to your advantage.

[Xsoskeleton]

The only major FLAW in Lunaro is the ability to stunlock, srsly, 3v2, 2 opponent stunlocks each moon team while the other guy scores for freedom

REMOVE KNOCKDOWN OR AT LEAST LET US DO GUARD TO RESIST KNOCKDOWN OR SOME LIMITATION/PENALTY FOR ABUSING CHECK ON PLAYER THAT DOES NOT CARRY THE LUNARO PLS, i can't even properly run back to my defend zone due to being stunlocked

stunlock S#&$ is the only thing made me wont go lunaro public again, goodbye conclave standing from lunaro.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Xsoskeleton
Typos

[DreamsmithJane]

Less brawl, more ball, please. Checking is still out of control, and if a player on the opposing team makes it their mission to take you out of the game, they're going to do it. A shoulder charge will knock you down in one hit, and they can do it again just as you stand up, making it unavoidable. Even if you knock them down, you now have to spend all your time keeping them under control. Either way, neither one of you gets to play Lunaro. Additionally, I'm unsure if this is a bug, but spamming the E key immediately after bullet jumping allows you to string together three consecutive shoulder charges (with no kicks or pauses between), which can potentially knock down an entire team. Seems like a problem.

Players have figured out how to pass to themselves. I don't mean launching the lunaro far down the pitch, and then bullet jumping and aim gliding to catch it. I mean tossing it and immediately using the attractor to re-catch it and reset the holding timer without ever actually giving up possession or passing. This is pure cheese, and completely undermines the purpose of even having a holding timer. It's gotta go.

Another problem is just how hard a team can push momentum. A player standing outside the Zone after their team scored can jump in, catch the ball, and immediately score again, sometimes without even touching the ground. I've done it myself, and it seems rather oppressive from both sides. With these things in mind, I propose the following changes:

• Using the attractor (holding block while not holding the ball) protects you from knockdowns; you will only be staggered instead. Shoulder charges against a blocking player will stagger both players (so you can still preemptively check a receiver, but you'll need a teammate to follow up). A player holding the lunaro will not be protected by blocking.
• There is a cooldown on shoulder charges. It is longer than the time it takes to stand up. Alternatively, add a stamina meter. Checking and shoulder charging consumes stamina, and you can do it more than once, but not endlessly.
• Throwing the ball prevents you from activating the attractor for a short period. If you want to pass to yourself, you need to give up possession temporarily.
• The ball must also clear the Zone before scoring is allowed for either team. If a player jumps into the zone to steal the ball, they will need to pass it to a teammate outside the Zone rather than immediately shooting for the goal.

Additionally, there are some outstanding bugs: [moved to bug thread]

Edited June 19, 2016 by DreamsmithJane
Moved bug list to appropriate thread.

[GarnetSan]

Ok, I've got several ideas for the game. I'm enraged right now after a couple bulls**t matches(blodshot eyes 'n everything), so i'll try to keep it cool.

1. In regards of the checking spam issue you talked on the Devstream, the idea I've got is having Teshin act as some kind of referee. For example, if a is Tenno constantly checking players who won't have the ball at all (around 6-8 checks within 15 seconds) he should be warned with a 20s immobility ammonestation by Teshin. Yellow card, so to speak. If this happens again, the player is expulsed from the match with no conclave rep as a puninshment for unsportmanlike behavior, the complementary "red card". Repeated offenders have the same conclave rep decrease for repeating match leavers you talked about in the devstream, and they don't get it back until they have played several "clean" matches.
2. Another issue i have been seeing lately is after scoring a goal, the team who has scored is camping the border of the opposing's area so as when the lunaro is launched again for the recieving team they rush the opposing teram's area, checking everyone and scoring again dirtily even before any of the opposing team has had a chance of touching the ball and repeating the process. This builds up a lot of frustration between players of the team recieving this abuse. A good measure would be not only asking the scoring team to leave the area, but also putting up a blocking field so that they can't go through unless the lunaro exits the area(be it in a player's arcata or on a throw).
3. I've said this before, but your reputation system does not value teamplay at all. There is too much valoration in scoring goals and no valoration whatsoever on saves and assists. That way Teamplay is going down the drain, instead of passing people are just spamming the opposing team's goal. Also, saves are not registering on the system whatsoever, yesterday I prevented around 20 goals and the game only registered 2. Doing a goalkeeper or middlefielder role has(calculated on average both offensive and defensive, 10 matches each) a 9.73% valoration of passing, assisting and making saves compared to going to "just score and screw you team". I get that players should be hungry for goals, it's the way the game should be played, and I'm guessing it's what you were going for with this punctuation system. But if you don't valorate this kind of teamplay with some reputation, in about a month all you are going to see is matches where when players get the ball they just auto-pass to themselves just to be able to be them who score the goal.

On an ending note, I really like this implementation for conclave and I wouldn't like for it to fade out. I know that my ideas may not be the best from your point of view, but at least you'll know that the problems are actually there, so I'd love for this post not to slip by unnoticed

[Whaelic]

4 minutes ago, GarnetSan said:

In regards of the checking spam issue you talked on the Devstream, the idea I've got is having Teshin act as some kind of referee. For example, if a is Tenno constantly checking players who won't have the ball at all (around 6-8 checks within 15 seconds) he should be warned with a 20s immobility ammonestation by Teshin. Yellow card, so to speak. If this happens again, the player is expulsed from the match with no conclave rep as a puninshment for unsportmanlike behavior, the complementary "red card". Repeated offenders have the same conclave rep decrease for repeating match leavers you talked about in the devstream, and they don't get it back until they have played several "clean" matches.

Love it

[Xsoskeleton]

I really can't stop the saltflow coming from the checking spam.

We need serious penalty for player that been disabling one exact person for the whole game with check spam, i can still call it reasonable if they berserkly attack you for taking the ball you brought, but you dont even get the ball in the match duration on both half, gets stunlocked as soon as you join and get into the match. wtf.

[Poppin_Fresh]

Sometimes matches don't award any points.

[Xsoskeleton]

4 minutes ago, Poppin_Fresh said:

Sometimes matches don't award any points.

Maybe you have reached your daily standing capacity for conclave?

[GarnetSan]

3 minutes ago, Xsoskeleton said:

Maybe you have reached your daily standing capacity for conclave?

No, no, this has happened to me before and I hadn't reached it

[Aiden85]

A problem that I see is that the opposing team can for all intent and purposes "camp" their rivals inzone.

As an example; Sun scores on Moon and leaves Moons inzone. They get their scoops back, then immediatly rush in to steal the lunaro and score again and again and again...etc. Effectivly locking down the opposing team. This is a major problem when the match ups provide uneven teams.

I see a couple of ways to fix this

Option 1  A grace perioud of a few seconds, in which time the scoring team cannot enter their rivals inzone, allowing a team to throw the Lunaro out of their inzone.

Option 2 Scoops are not returned until the Lunaro is out of a teams inzone or until 5 seconds have passed.

I think it is important to remember that this is a sport and that most sports have rules in place to prevent this sort of thing.   

[Lakais]

Though I find the gamemode enjoyable there are a number of things that have soured every game I have been in. 

1) The Lunaro attractor is very unreliable. At some points it seems to draw in from quite a bit off, and in other moments it basically refuses to work even if I stand on the damn ball. When it does work, the Lunaro just slowly and lazily starts curving towards me with no indication if that is because of me, or just some quirk of it's trajectory. Secondly, the attractor can basically be held down to work. It could possibly be more interesting tool if the attractor was more timing based. Basically its effect could be much stronger, but it only worked as a short "burst" that needs a bit to recharge. Basically you shouldn't be able to just hold down the key whenever you're not checking someone, but need to time it. This however runs into the issue of air-gliding using the same button. 

2) "Goal keeping" is a mess. Right now, when someone chooses to be a goalie, all they do is jump infront of the goal and hold down the attractor key and the only option to get past them is to knock them over. One option would be to create a "cold plate" like effect in the immediate area of the goal. The basic idea is that you shouldn't just stand under the goal, spam basic jump and hold down the grab key. You can still walk there, but you'd be slowed down and thus at a massive disadvantage to the attacker. This would encourage people to actually try and intercept a thrown ball if it's being thrown from further away, rather then standing right infront of the goal. 

3) After goal clearing rules need to be changed. Right now they favor the scorers of the last goal too much, basically the game starts right under the goal of the side that got goaled, with the attackers all under the goal. Instead, what should be required is for all the attacking players to return to their half of the field rather then just outside the defender's goal zone. This would encourage more back and forth gameplay, rather then one side being constantly cornered. 

4) Lunaro holder visibility, I have ran into issues where the icon doesn't show up, or a brawl and no one has an idea where the damn thing is. One idea is to have a team colored "god beam" following the Lunaro and the carrier at all times. This would have the theoretical benefit of allowing us to gauge distances better. 

5) Checking, this has been talked to death and I have to agree that it is just being abused at the moment. The problem with changes to checking is that it carries an important role within the game and it fills it's proper function. The only option I could think of is a penalty for abusing checking. Essentially, all such attacks would fill an invisible gauge. Once it's full, your arcata would be deactivated for a short period of time. Lets say 5 seconds. Shoulder charge is a bit of a trickier case and the only ideas I can come up with is that the attack will be given a short "recover time" after a successful use. Basically you charge and check your opponent, and then you'd have to right yourself for a short, precious moment. And if you miss your shoulder charge (including when youd spam it to get that little bit of speed) you stumble. 

[trace_phage]

 

 

Clearing the zone is fine, but I was thinking that at the pace this game is played it might be better to let the the team that scored fall back to their side of the field instead 

 

Edited June 19, 2016 by trace_phage
Just watched #76

[Poppin_Fresh]

2 hours ago, Xsoskeleton said:

Maybe you have reached your daily standing capacity for conclave?

nope, I checked and I still could earn points, and did in the next match. It was a match I joined that was in progress if that matters.

[Wustinhurf]

This is the most frustrating game feature ever. I would love to see it work out but as of right now this lunaro seem to promote hate and aggression. I thought this was suppose to be a friendly match between tenos to promote teamwork, but its nothing close to it. All the matches I've been in are like 14+ to zero, and zero being my team. Heres what I think DE could do to make this game less stressful:

 

1: Melee stun lock-down. (this is pretty much a troll feature, because I can just keep spamming E and piss the other person off)

2:No Rushing after opponent score: Ok this you must fix, after opponent scores they had to leave the zone before the ball spawns. But before we can catch the ball and start playing they started to melee rush us. Knocking us down and scoring again, then they leave the zone and the ball spawn and repeat. I think it should be changed so after we picked up the ball then they can enter the zone. 

 

3. Conclave mods: Do they even work in lunaro? because they don't seem to have any effect in it. Maybe we should bring it into lunaro? I know one of them is anti-stun after getting knocked down. I need that

[Ailleacht]

Hi, i'd like to share my opinions about Lunaro;

1) You can almost keep 1 player on the ground, just stunning him all the time - probably some ability that he can block and wont be stunned at the time would help

2) Lags, these are terrible, if you want to keep PVP up, we need some dedicated server like many ppl already said .. without it, it's mostly host win (apply for all PVPs)

3) Matchmaking are more than broken, i've been playing 4v2 or 3v1 or 2v0

4) Attackers should not be allowed to lunaro before defenders take it, or at least there should be timer

5)-10) same as 2) .. it's unplayable mostly

[Vaxillian]

I've slowly been engaging myself in Lunaro and have been loving it but at the same time have been noticing the same problem popping up, unbalanced teams.

I don't mean this in a sense of skill I mean this in a sense of the amount of players. Even just having one person more than the other team is a HUGE advantage. You can literally have one person sitting in front of the goal whilst one guy knocks you down over and over and the last man grabs the ball to score goals. This also brings up some other problems which I'll list a little later.

The devs have talked about implementing a sort of punishing system for players that leave which I'm not entirely against but it doesn't fix the problem of the player leaving and the other lonely 1 or 2 people left at unfair odds and what I think would be better is to entice players to stay but endorsing more fairness. I know that there will always be that little gap of skill level that pops up every now and then but when you have an average skill group of players that are unbalanced in numbers and it makes people leave because of the fact that they can do very little, then it is not ok.

Example:

Spoiler

This is a screenshot from a game I did today where we played an ENTIRE 3 v 1 and the poor guy we were going against got the poor end of the situation. There was no team scrambling, no higher queue to add players to the game, not bot to take their place, nothing at all to balance out the game.

Problems like this has a clear solution but maybe not an easy one on the devs side, I personally would like to see a system close to Rocket League's where a bot is put in place of the now gone player and the match is put into a higher queue to add players.

Some side problems:

Spoiler

- No cooldown on bashing

- No "risk or reward" to bashing

- People can stand right in front of a small goal to block all shots

- Once checked people can charge back into the other side to grab the ball which has yet to be touched by opposing team that was scored on

 

[IEpicWolfI]

 Seriously, please fix latency, do something about it, it's impossible for me to find a match where people aren't appearing and reappearing all the time.

 And can we stop letting games start with 2v1 or 3v1.

[Ocaz]

On 6/18/2016 at 5:52 AM, Xsoskeleton said:

"For you tenno who denies the blood of the conclave"

if this is for the folks of us who have, they did a bad job. I dont want to play stunlock cheater ball. I want something like a shooting gallery or a skin customizer in game. This is still conclave yes. they replaced killing with scoring goals. Its not much different. I havent denied the blood of the conclave, ive denied all of conclave AND what its future holds.

This mode was hyped up as much as archwing and at the same event as archwing but just a year later and i think i know where its going....

[Shadow8600]

Any word on team balancing/ team switching? Keep having to play against friends, or end up in a 3 v 1 match more often than not.

[MasterControl]

Lunaro is really, REALLY unfun when you're outnumbered. The last match I was in, my only teammate got stunlocked for an entire half, and it was just me against 2 very skilled and well coordinated players. It feels like I'm screwed whatever I do in those situations. Can we maybe force incoming players to spectate if they'll imbalance the teams? Side note.. Can we fix it so that only triggering a bullet jump drops the Lunaro, and if we catch it mid-jump, we don't lose it? I can understand why avoiding bullet jump spam is necessary, but I see nothing overpowered in using it to catch the ball.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mastercontrol98

[LightstealKnight]

Great mode but we need a way to have different "class" types in the game mode.

And it cannot be a weapon that you pick in loadout because you need to be able to compensate for a team lack.

So the "Power button" - [Default '1-4'] Should change this "class" but take a long time to do it (5-10 seconds)

 

Classes:

1.  Runner

2.  Offense

3.  Defense

4. Goal

 

1. Runner

Movement Speed:  High

Projectile Speed:  Medium

Passing Skill:  Low

Catching Skill (includes passes): High

Sturdiness: Low

Steal Power: Medium

Check Power: Low

Holding Time: Low

 

2. Offense

Movement Speed:  Medium

Projectile Speed:  High

Passing Skill:  High

Catching Skill (includes passes): Medium

Sturdiness: Low

Steal Power: Medium

Check Power: Medium

Holding Time: Medium

 

3.  Defense

Movement Speed:  Medium

Projectile Speed:  Low

Passing Skill:  Medium

Catching Skill (includes passes): Medium

Sturdiness: High

Steal Power: High

Check Power: High

Holding Time: Medium

 

4. Goal  (While outside of Defensive zone all stats switch to LOW) - Maximum 1 per team

Movement Speed:  High

Projectile Speed:  High

Passing Skill:  High

Catching Skill (includes passes): High

Sturdiness: High

Steal Power: High

Check Power: High

Holding Time: High

Edited June 20, 2016 by LightstealKnight
Added Holding Time

[Negotium]

17 hours ago, GarnetSan said:

 Also, saves are not registering on the system whatsoever, yesterday I prevented around 20 goals and the game only registered 2. Doing a goalkeeper or middlefielder role has(calculated on average both offensive and defensive, 10 matches each) a 9.73% valoration of passing, assisting and making saves compared to going to "just score and screw you team". I get that players should be hungry for goals, it's the way the game should be played, and I'm guessing it's what you were going for with this punctuation system.

^ Saves are registered, it's just hard to get them. I tried in a 1v1 how to get saves:
The Way people mostly play keeper right now they don't earn saves, since a save means you have to jump from outside the area right in front of the goal into this area and catch the ball in there. So no standing in there and catching the ball. Gives an interception, just like standing outside and catching it there. Only jumoing outside and catching the ball inside counts as save.

14 hours ago, Lakais said:

2) "Goal keeping" is a mess. Right now, when someone chooses to be a goalie, all they do is jump infront of the goal and hold down the attractor key and the only option to get past them is to knock them over. One option would be to create a "cold plate" like effect in the immediate area of the goal. The basic idea is that you shouldn't just stand under the goal, spam basic jump and hold down the grab key. You can still walk there, but you'd be slowed down and thus at a massive disadvantage to the attacker. This would encourage people to actually try and intercept a thrown ball if it's being thrown from further away, rather then standing right infront of the goal. 

 

^Sadly most keepers play it just like that, and that takes out all the fun. Personally I play keeper as well, but I mostly stay outside of the inner area and run around, makin it possible for players to pass to my other side and score that way. This also means I sometimes get saves, sometimes don't. Mostly you just get Interceptions and those don't really reflect what you do for your team.
On the other hand too many players don't see the difference between a "fair" keeper and a "jump and attract" keeper, resulting in stunlock from time to time.
Players in my team call me a "bad goalie" because it's possible for the opponetnts to score and my saves are not reflected in the summary, since they are mere Interceptions.
Kinda bugs me.

[LightstealKnight]

Can we have options so that a slide shot doesn't produce a "curve ball" but rather the melee button does instead?