Why shouldn't this game be pay to win ?

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, Futurehero said:

I can already buy the full set for a prime weapon, pay to rush-build it, pay for every mod to upgrade it, pay for the fusion cores to do it, and pay for a booster to let me level it in a short time. 

And here we reach the ultimate crux of your fallacy. You believe that pay-to-win is just he next logical step in pay-for-convenience

It isn't

[Tricky5hift]

P2W is never a good thing, period.

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

This is the worst idea. 

[Schregger]

5 hours ago, (XB1)DShinShoryuken said:

And it is all because the topic poster out this idea out to the OMNIVERSE that this is now happening in some other reality. Congratz Topic Starter....you killed Warframe in another universe.

This is the greatest response Ive ever read... in regards to Warframe and such... it...

Know what, Nevermind... great response...

[Kaisty]

34 minutes ago, Schregger said:

This is the greatest response Ive ever read... in regards to Warframe and such... it...

Know what, Nevermind... great response...

The OP may have killed it in another universe, but in the same regards the idea SAVED it in a different one. One where game companies release things worth the money players feel the need to put towards the game. Probably had DE in that universe try to keep the game F2P with nothing that can be bought with plat, only to be saved once they gave into the players demands to "Shut up and take our money!"

Folks forget that the whole "infinite universe and Infinite realities" can also mean there is a universe where P2W model is the only one that is working well.

[5HV3N]

jeez, let it go already.

Don't make it into june's hot topic.

[Sweaty_Pleb]

8 hours ago, Bleak-Knight said:

You buy boosters? I don't think you know what Draco is...

Draco with a booster \_(*-*)_/

[DzeraDragonbane]

9 hours ago, Futurehero said:

So, what if DE decided to release Sentient guns that deal 5k damage per hit and are full auto, and can only be bought for 300 platinum ? Would that really be a problem ?

-This game is Co-op. You're not going against someone who is paying for better gear, in fact, them being in your party is only a benefit.

-You can trade a lot of things for platinum, so at the end of the day, platinum just becomes another thing you can grind for.

-In fact, a lot of veterans are probably sitting on buckets of the stuff, earned JUST by trading.

-This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem .

-Whoever thinks those weapons are too much, can simply not use them. This same thing is said about things like the Tonkor, or Ember. So why would this be different.

-Since not everyone can afford a 300 platinum gun, you probably won't see everyone in Pub plays with this .

-People finally have an option to easily finish raids.

-"Trivializing content" is not a thing . People have been trivializing content for years and it's still  being played just as well.

-Players would still have incentives to make other guns ,the same way people are still crafting things like the twin Basolk when Broken War is given to you for free.

 

Honestly, except the knee-jerk reaction that people have to the term "pay to win", is there any argument as to why this couldn't be a thing? It would certainly make DE a lot of money, and players can still technically get this weapon for free through trading. 

 

I don't think that would end the enemy scaling problem. More like add more to cheese category.

[TheDudeCZ]

That feeling when you realize...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5k damage is nothing. Ok, maybe 5k BASE damage, but 5k actual damage, no ty.

[arch111]

I ... don't know.

I don't trade yet, so let me ask you something. 

If I buy a Prime pack and then level it up and forma them to god-tier; can I then sell them for a very high price? Or is there some restrictions? 

Because if we can buy a fully formaed frame/gun with mods in the game,  is not that the same thing as you are talking about here?

[Aglethe]

2 minutes ago, arch111 said:

I ... don't know.

I don't trade yet, so let me ask you something. 

If I buy a Prime pack and then level it up and forma them to god-tier; can I then sell them for a very high price? Or is there some restrictions? 

Because if we can buy a fully formaed frame/gun with mods in the game,  is not that the same thing as you are talking about here?

 

Players can only trade unranked and unforma'd weapons, so who ever is buying them still has to do the usual exp grind to bring them up to par. They just circumvent the rng grind to acquire the item.

[arch111]

Just now, Aglethe said:

 

Players can only trade unranked and unforma'd weapons, so who ever is buying them still has to do the usual exp grind to bring them up to par. They just circumvent the rng grind to acquire the item.

Ah. Because to me pay to win is exactly that. I pay to NOT grind to level and forma my gun/warframe to make it viable for endgame = I win.

This is a game about grinding yes, but I would actually pay to NOT have to spend all that time reformaing a weapon just to use it.

Prime-packs, they aren't sellable are they? So we allready have a P2W for fashion. 

[TARINunit9]

14 minutes ago, arch111 said:

This is a game about grinding yes, but I would actually pay to NOT have to spend all that time reformaing a weapon just to use it.

Which is why DE sells affinity boosters. More pay-for-convenience, which the OP thinks is just another form of pay-to-win (it isn't)

[Nemsi]

OP you do not mention several cruical downsides:

1) the community currently has minimum players complaining about P2W. You are suggesting a way to bring conflict, tension and hate into a reasonably well working system. You are encouraging a way to undermine it. The rationality of your suggestion is not important in this regard. The emotial outcome would be destructive.

2) you say A but forget to say B. What would start with 300p exclusive weapon would not end there. After a while there would be a whole group of these exclusives, including warframes. That would  quickly turn into a new meta, which would heavily affect everybody. Players without them would not be welcome in many missions. Due to a new level of enemy scaling they would in fact find themselves behind a new pay wall. But hey, its only PVE, right? Right?

2) scaling problem would be anything but solved. In fact it would be brought into a brand new level of unsolvable state.

3) newbs with the 300p weapons would not only ruin their own game experience but would also ruin other peoples experience. There is nothing more annoying than a noob with OP weapon "pwning".

4) you are suggesting that Warframe should enter a spiral of doom that is uncotrollable power creep, much much worse than it is nowdays. 

I know that this system " works" for many games. But those games are not Warframe, which is a true successful F2P. Why corrupt it?

 

[DatDarkOne]

19 minutes ago, arch111 said:

Prime-packs, they aren't sellable are they? So we allready have a P2W for fashion.

There is no such thing in Warframe as Pay2win for fashion.  This is because the cosmetics don't do anything in game but look good.  

[armedpoop]

You sound like you work for PWI...

Edited June 20, 2016 by armedpoop

[arch111]

If fashion is the endgame we all play for, this being in spirit a cooperative game and we all want to look our best, then I still argue that fashion is pay to win.

The difference is it only makes me look good.

 

But I don't really stand by the term p2w because I hate every game that uses it as a road block that can only be passed by paying.

Nobody wants Warframe to become that. If that is what the suggestions in the OP would amount to, the no thank you end of discussion. 

[(PSN)JaviOnTheRocks]

Why bother releasing any uber-god tier weapon? Just take P2W to it's logical fullest extent for a PvE game: you pay 1000plat and you get a mail from Lotus saying that you are the most awesome Tenno that will ever exist and have completely destroyed every single current and future enemy in the game.

There, you have won, and can now move on to another game.

[Artekkor]

The whole idea of Warframe that devs are trying to uphold is to be F2P without any game content being locked from player through money.

It's a simple, yet genius idea and one of the reasons why people love to be a part of WF community. When you spend money - you spend them to support the developer, NOT to progress. In return developer gives you awesome fashion, ability to skip skin-burning grind, etc.

Aircrafts are the only exception out of this rule (their drop chance is so low that purchase is nearly the only option if you want one badly) but their impact on the actual gameplay is so low that it's more of a skin than anything.

I can understand the idea of locking efficient and fair endgame behind paywall, but... It's simply would go against everything that Warframe stood for all this time.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Artek94

[ashrah]

warframe have in my opinion one of most fair  f2p models....i played some p2w games to where u for example buy kevlar swat armor and helmet who give u 50% resistance to  bullets and its pvp game.. u buy sniper who 1 shot anyone no matter of distance...and pistol who 2 shot any class...that is p2w....

[KirukaChan]

Things like pay to win or lockboxes would kill this game. DE is doing just fine with their current setup.

[DatDarkOne]

45 minutes ago, arch111 said:

If fashion is the endgame we all play for, this being in spirit a cooperative game and we all want to look our best, then I still argue that fashion is pay to win.

The difference is it only makes me look good.

OK.  I can get behind that logic.  Happy Hunting Tenno, and do it with STYLE!  :D

[Qurisu]

I don't really understand your point of trivialising raids. The whole point of raids is teamwork and coordination. Adding something that can be used to pretty much instantly win a mission would reduce any form of entertainment after a while. It's also one of the reasons for burnout. Once you have weapons and frames that can win missions without much effort, they get boring.

Raids are considered "end game" (in my opinion) and they are there to provide a challenge. There's no reason to create things locked behind a pay wall that would make them easier. 

I raid a lot with my clan. The recent changes to CC locking LoR and door bugging JV with Ivara has actually made raids a lot more entertaining. I've now learnt (or almost learnt) how to do all 3 nerves in JV througb teamwork rather than an Ivara shooting a dashwire through 3 doors and then shooting 2 nerves. 

The fact that arcanes cost more and are harder to earn is a good thing as arcanes are more of a luxury and a sign of dedication rather than a necessity.

TL;DR, raids aren't meant to be "easy". They are there to provide entertainment through challenges so there is no reason to make "end game content" open to anyone with money.

[izzatuw]

I quote the great turret user Torbjorn

 

"No no no no! N-O, No!"

[Evanescent]

So, what if DE decided to release Sentient guns that deal 5k damage per hit and are full auto, and can only be bought for 300 platinum ? Would that really be a problem ?

-This game is Co-op. You're not going against someone who is paying for better gear, in fact, them being in your party is only a benefit.

True, but if he's too effective I'm not so much as playing with him as being carried. 

-You can trade a lot of things for platinum, so at the end of the day, platinum just becomes another thing you can grind for.

True. But not reliable enough to be made into something you have to grind for.

-In fact, a lot of veterans are probably sitting on buckets of the stuff, earned JUST by trading.

That's a pretty big assumption. How do you know? 

-This would finally put an end to the enemy scaling problem

How? This statement just comes out of nowhere. .

-Whoever thinks those weapons are too much, can simply not use them. This same thing is said about things like the Tonkor, or Ember. So why would this be different.

That is the most stupid argument I have ever heard. it is said, and it is idiotic to say. Not using it doesn't mean it's not there, and that it's not making a huge impact on power balance. Who would gimp themselves on purpose?

-Since not everyone can afford a 300 platinum gun, you probably won't see everyone in Pub plays with this

And this helps the game how? How does this help the game in anyway? I feel like I'm seeing why you made this thread,.

-People finally have an option to easily finish raids.

Sure, let's further trivialize content. Yay.

-"Trivializing content" is not a thing . People have been trivializing content for years and it's still  being played just as well.

I'm sorry what? If you trivialize something, you get bored, and leave. This is why games with poor balancing die so quickly. Ever tried a Superman game? Or used a cheat mod on a game? Nothing hurts you, everything dies in one shot. So why keep playing when there's no tension?

-Players would still have incentives to make other guns ,the same way people are still crafting things like the twin Basolk when Broken War is given to you for free.

.....

I don't-

Aaaah. 'Here guys, here's this awesome OP gun we've been hyping but you can't have it if you don't pay up. But that's ok, there are these other weapons that just happen to be not so great that you can spend hours farming for and hours building and that won't match the power. Have fun!'

Are you serious.

 

I feel like the whole reason you made this thread is this one line:

Since not everyone can afford a 300 platinum gun, you probably won't see everyone in Pub plays with this

You said it yourself:

Not everyone will be able to affect this gun. Why would the devs make gameplay content that everyone can't enjoy? It's a waste of resources, because they could have made something else that more people could have enjoyed and spread the word to make Warframe more popular, and kept the playerbase more populated. 

If you just want to be a special snowflake so bad, I'm sure there are other games for you. There's a reason you don't put Free to Play and charge money for gameplay stuff, a reason people are starting to frown upon micro-transactions in purchase based games. It's a breach of trust between devs and players, and opens up a troubling precedent where they can start choking your power progression for cash.

So yeah. No.

I sincerely hope you were jesting when you made this thread.